From Friends of Harford:
Maryland Department of Environment- Informational Meeting
Discharge Permit For Mountain Christian Church
Meeting Time: Tuesday July 2, 2019 from 1:30-2:30 PM
Meeting Place: Harford County Public Library: Joppa Branch located at 655 Towne Center Drive, Joppa, MD 21085
If you cannot attend, written comments will be accepted by the state until July 15, 2019 to:
Yen-Der Cheng, Chief, Wastewater Permits, WSA,
Ref: #18DP3850,
1800 Washington Blvd., Suite 455
Baltimore, MD 21230-1708
From Gunpowder Riverkeeper:
Gunpowder Riverkeeper is concerned about the potential for an increase in bacteria levels and a decrease in downstream water quality for trout waters (Use III) and Submerged Aquatic Vegetation (SAV) related to this new surface water discharge. In the past the Church has used a septic field but this permit would allow a minor wastewater treatment plant to be built and managed on the site.
At the last hearing on this permit, Gunpowder RIVERKEEPER® asked that the state; recognize impairments for bay-wide pollutants like Nitrogen, Phosphorous and sediment in the downstream waterways; provide the compliance record of the church septic field system; put stricter limits on temperature and bacteria and provide more representative monitoring in the draft permit. One of the attendees asked how are wells and recharge areas might be impacted.
Because of our efforts and the comments from downstream and adjacent residents that attended the first hearing, MDE agreed to host another informational meeting that is open to the public at large.
The State of Maryland does not have a requirement for proximity notices on these permits. RIVERKEEPER® has posted this notice so folks are aware of the draft permit, the upcoming meeting and how they might input into this permitting decision.
If you use the Little Gunpowder Falls for fishing, hiking or swimming or are downstream please attend an upcoming meeting to learn more about the Mtn. Christian Church, (located at 1824 Mountain Rd Joppa, MD 21085) permit #18DP3850 to discharge up to 5,000 gallons of treated wastewater per day into a tributary that flows and enters into the Little Gunpowder Falls at the Jericho covered bridge.
Mountain Christian Church should not be allowed to destroy this water. They must be stopped.
DESTROY THE RIVER? OH NO.
MAKE SURE YA STOMP YOUR FEET LOUDLY AND SHAKE YOUR FIST IN THE AIR..
Maybe they can brainwash the poop to another location.
They are tax exempt, let them pay to pump out their shit like the rest of us.
They are going to pay for a waste treatment facility, which may be better for the environment than the septic field system that they currently use.
Informer, I agree.
It’s amazing how many people are beyond fucking retarded.
Yeah like the shit factory in Dundalk that polluted back river so badly no one will ever fish, crab, boat or swim there. What happens when this systems fails huh, raw shit in the stream.
Thats some real world stuff, bro. Tell it again.
You do realize there are lots of waste water treatment plants in Maryland that discharge into waterways where people swim, fish, boat?
People act like this is something new..never been done before.
Yes, but those are continually monitored by professionals 24/7 with engineers in place and on call. This one would have next to nobody checking on it, and absolutely nobody that would have any idea what to do if something went wrong.
Nah. Automated Waste water treatment plants will be attended to if there are problems.
There, I said it with a straight face.
Engineers don’t run WWTP, plant operators do.
No engineers? I guess that would be a surprise to the multiple number of engineers that work for Harco W/S. Those would be engineers who troubleshoot, plan and direct repairs as necessary. These plants dont run themselves. Is the church going to lab test effluent before it’s released? Who’s going to do that the choir director?
The church has probably close to 100 people on the payroll, everything from “Executive Pastor” to “Storyteller.” It wouldn’t surprise me if they had an engineer thrown in there.
You got to be kidding me…close to a hundred people on the payroll??
They are not what people traditionally think of as a church. I think they call the choir director the Worship Pastor. Within a year after they closed their school ministry due to “financial trouble”, they spent tens of thousands of dollars on a state of the art sound and multi-media system.
Is this a church or some sort of small business trying to get a tax break via a religious exemption?
“Automated Waste water treatment plants will be attended to if there are problems. ”
“If” there are problems?, hello there are always problems You sound like a 4 year old telling a story that starts with “if I die”
Completely serious – take a look at their website under “staff” and you’ll see – those are just the people that pull a salary, and there are probably even more people not listed. Lots of the same last names, husbands, wives, sons, daughters, etc. hence the allegations of nepotism.
https://www.harfordcountymd.gov/Directory.aspx?did=55
I don’t see anyone titled as “Engineer.”
There is Water/Sewer Engineering department with a few people with that official title but it doesn’t appear to be apart of the Operations/Facility operations.
?
Actually what would have been better is not to have issued permits for this cult to build a 2nd, 3rd and 4th building outside a service area and now they want to build more stuff. This is how this county operates. They allow the thing to go to hell so they can expand the development envelope yet again. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Couldn’t you quietly be an ass, or do you really feel the need to broadcast it so everybody knows?
Why not run the county sewer line down Mountain Road so the church and other commercial properties can connect and the county will keep collecting money every quarter? The permit application says it is designed for 5000 gallons/day with a 5 year growth to 10,000 gallons.day. Will the design handle that?
They would rather have all of the shit flow into joppatowne for free. It will be smelling like the poop factory in Dundalk down there.
You really have no idea what the discharge permit is really about and know nothing about sewage treatment. Inform yourself before blowing off.
I think connecting the sewer system from 147/Rt 1 area and down is a great idea. You can add another 700 or 800 houses that way if you add a sewer line.
Found Mike Euler’s burner account
What the fuck?
If the water is so clean send it to the water fountains at the church
There need to do this is because Harford County has failed to keep up with the growth in the county. Yet more of Harford County corrupt, inept, and incompetence at work.
It’s the countys fault the Church wants to dump treated waste water into a local trout stream? BawahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaThat’s rich.
No it’s counties fault for not having infrastructure for the development they approved. I will bet they dam well collected the fees.
West Carrollton, Ohio has been treating their waste water for over 50 years. They run the effluent through a series of fish ponds before dumping it into the Miami River. This has been a benchmark observed by many municipalities in planning to wastewater treatment. Wastewater that has been filtered and purified as just water.
This whole mess stinks, the church claims it is spending tons of money on this system solving a problem that doesn’t exist. Everything I see shows these mini wastewater treatment plants need electric to work and complicated systems. Has the power ever gone out in the area for extended periods? I seem to remember some tornadoes years back. So I’m guessing there will be generators and backup generators involved, along with waste water engineers on site 24/7..
But why pipe the stink water to a stream? why not just pump it back into the ground after all it’s clean right? Putting it into the stream means all those kids tubing in the stream will be exposed. who wants their dog swimming in poo water then climbing in bed tonight…. anyone?
Can anyone give us the location of another plant like this in Harford county where the citizens can see it’s operation and feel more comfortable? I’m betting not.yet the government with zero experience says it should work…..
Wake up people this is the opening for bigger and better things that will only be possible by spreading the infected water into the community. Once it’s in it’s never going to be removed no matter how big a mess it creates.
Fallston High and Middle School have a current system. The whole area around the old Fallston Hospital had one. The one in Joppatown next to the shopping center, it dumps into a stream that runs into the little gunpowder. There may still be one in Campus Hill behind college and one up by delta.
This new system will be better then the raw crap water that bubbles up from the ground and flowing into the stream at the church now. Also the community including FOH have stopped all attempts the church has tried to get public water and sewer to them.
Are you claiming the Church presently has a septic system that is leaking into a nearby stream? The Health Dept should be all over that and issue a condemnation notice for repairs.
Half the health dept is probably there every weekend drinking the koolaid. Place is where county corruption goes to make itself feel better.
waterless urnals in the restrooms at church already smell bad sometimes. Harford Community has those too and it smells there too sometimes. Save the environment, gag while you do.
Stop sticking you head in there, tht’s a urinal cake not a peppermint patty dumbass.
Holy Shit!
Why don’t they extend the sewer lines. The Church wanted to do that and pay for it. The neighbors are afraid of growth. BUll. The neighbors are a bunch of greedy people just like most in this county.
It’s call Hurrah for me and heck with you.
As always a plant does fail at one oint or another and these same people will be yelling their heads off.
No it’s called I’ve lived here a long time and dont wish it to be turned into a shithole so that Euler and friends can enrich themselves at my expense.
Yes I agree that the new batch of section 8 apartments be built on the huge tracks of land on Ryan and Oakmont roads. I am sure the homeowners there won’t mind a bit.
Glen you are a moron no one “builds” section 8 apartments. That’s not how it works that’s not how any of this works.
I know way more about this than you ever will. It was sarcasm dickweed and you sir are the moron for taking my comment literally.
Its already a shit hole…..where have you been?
I wonder if this small waste water treatment plant will be built and functional before that big ass metal plate sticking up in the entire travel lane on Abingdon Road right at the CSX Overpass will be fixed?
My septic and drain field failed a couple of years ago. The only alternative available to a homeowner in my area per the county, was to install a BAT system, Best Available Technology, which was a HOOT system. Extremely expensive, probably could have paid for a mini waste water treatment and pumped the water down to the Susquehanna!
Mine failed too in Abingdon and it was about $25,000. Zero help from the County even though they knew all about the issues when I purchased the home in 1996. File was full of stuff at Health Dept
I would not trust the folks at MCC. They are a secretive bunch that hide their financial statements from the people that attend there, shut down the school without notice once pastor ben’s kids graduated leaving hundreds of children and their parents in a bind and are fraught with staffing nepotism. Joe Leturgez just died, so now there is no check at all on the cult like behavior that pastor Ben promotes. No one at mcc knows a thing about running a wastewater plant.
I went there once too just to see what it was about. Lots of hand holding and swaying. One world sort of thing…it seemed cultish to me.
All religion is a cult and a means of controlling populations. Any law endorsed or created on aspects of religion should be scrutinized. Once you realize that the big three (Judaism, Islam and Christianity) are based on the same beliefs, yet have small differences in their beliefs, you will realize that religion is a form of witchcraft. This is why the book of Psalms is also referred to as the book of Spells. The sad thing is that all three of these religions are responsible for the destruction of many lives and have caused more death thru the passage of time than any good that could have ever been thought to be. There is nothing wrong with believing in the divine being or the creator as it should be obvious to any sentient being that this is truth. However, if you study the big three you will find that Christianity is the hardest pill to swallow and that all three have been used to govern and gain wealth for certain individuals who in reality are practicing witchcraft. They convinced you to put money on the plate and that’s all the evidence you’ll ever need.
I’d imagine the cult will be sending a coalition of brainwashed automatons to clog up the meeting. Remember this is an informational meeting for people affected by the discharge and there is no reason for a church member to be there.
I wonder if the paranoia exhibited by ‘Sam Adams’ is from consuming too much of his namesake beverage, and it’s obvious that ‘Say it w a Straight Face’ has never attended a service at Mountain. Also, ‘Just the facts’ sure has a twisted way of understanding things.
The troll level is very high on this article.
I indeed did attend service and found a congregation, much of it not from Harford County. It was oddly cultish and not local at all. I felt like I was witnessing a corporate church. It’s all about the money.
You so funny, if by funny I mean pathetic. Get a life.
Not hard to tell who are the mountain christian cult members.
I appreciate your comments about my father dying but please do not mention him again. All of the folks at Mountain do numerous things for the citizens of Maryland every day. Thank you.
When I went there the entire outreach was about foreign countries; with a focus on Africa. The pastor had a video going in the background of kids in poverty in Africa and wanted money. Nothing wrong with that but with all the “lift me up” music, swaying and holding hands the entire thing started to seem disturbing and it wasn’t even really in a church it was in what looked like an auditorium. I guess the actual church building is just a prop now since the convention center was built…it’s way too big and should never have been permitted for it’s size and expected # of people. You can’t even get down 152 when “church” gets out because the traffic is so bad.
It’s a money making cult.
And now Jenifer wants to give you 5000 gallons of poop water every day. Oh the things they do for us….. Are we supposed to say thank you?
Afraid your cash cow might end?
I was a member of MCC for almost 15 years. It is true that the leadership is extremely secretive about financial matters. Years ago, they used to publish every week how much money was collected in the offering. No longer…however they continued to conduct two-year “giving campaigns” and didn’t hesitate to send notices in the mail when you fell behind what you had pledged. This is in addition to the sermons that pressured you to give above and beyond your weekly tithing. When we attended, we had no idea how much money any of the staff made, but the church must have been doing pretty well as they were able to send Ben Cachiaras and his wife on a vacation to Greece a couple of years ago.
My child was also a student at Mountain Christian School when it closed, after Ben’s children had all graduated. They had after school care that you contracted for by the hour; my wife and I only needed it for one hour in the afternoons. Once because of a flat tire, we were 5 minutes late picking my daughter up. We called ahead to let them know; they said it was fine. This happened only once. A week later, I received a $20 bill from Joe Leturgez, for late pickup. Aftercare was still in session when we arrived so it wasn’t as if we had held up a staff member from going home. This is just an example of the daily “grace” MCC extends to its members and the community.
There’s no question that MCC executes much good work in the name of God, thanks in large part to an enormous group of unpaid volunteers/followers. However make no mistake – for the “church” as an entity, and for its leadership/pastors/elders, it is about the money and protecting their business.
I attended MCC for almost ten years. Every year it got worse. Once Pastor Cook retired and Ben took over, the place changed from a gospel-based Christian Church with a real heart for people into a feel good cult that is solely focused on growth and money. Sunday services are nothing more than a performance designed to fill seats and collect money. You rarely hear the Gospel preached there anymore. I feel sorry for the people that go there. They are being deceived by nothing more than a slick marketing program.
They are not what people traditionally think of as a church. I think they call the choir director the Worship Pastor. Within a year after they closed their school ministry due to “financial trouble”, they spent tens of thousands of dollars on a state of the art sound and multi-media system.
The nepotism at MCC is especially scary. Check out their website, the wives of virtually all of the “pastors” are also in paid staff positions. And Ben hires his best friends as well, like Tom Moen the “glocal missions pastor”. Every church needs a glocal pastor you know. This bunch prides itself on being witty like that. If memory serves me they claimed the school was losing hundreds of thousands of dollars each year, but that came out only after ben’s last kid graduated and they announced the school was closing. Meanwhile, their foreign missions budget was twice the school shortfall, indicating Ben cared more about people around the world then the local Harford County that attended MCC and the school. The congregants had no say in the school closing and were given no opportunity to fund the school budget.
https://www.harfordcountymd.gov/Directory.aspx?did=136
There’s only a few engineers listed in Water/Sewer directory.
It seems you have the employment description of who troubleshoots/repairs waste water treatment plants.
I believe you’ll in the WWTP and Water Operations there are a lot of “Plant Operators” who take care of that role.
In other words, “say it w a straight face” you’re just another person who has no idea what they’re talking about.
Be sure to reply to me and “tell me how it is.”
What an ignorant argument and you totally make my point. Wanna link the hundred or so trained and certified employees, that includes engineers that are charged with monitoring wastewater plants that discharge to waterways…perfect. Do you think all that expertise might be important to ensure raw shit doesn’t end up dumped in the bay? This cultish church will have who? The pastor? The choir director? No sir these other private septics do not dump directly in a waterway near the mouth of the bay and this one will. Theres no way to contain a spill.
Are you high? The staff directory to Harford County Water/Sewer has been posted multiple times.
Don’t do drugs.
Yes it has been posted, lots highly trained people many of whom are engineers. Your point?
Perhaps the church will be cross training the funeral director with water quality training.
Bingo. A hundred trained employees testing water quality, effluent, discharge…the entire function of a system to ensure nothing goes wrong and if it does, plans in place with folks involved whose roles in case of a crisis are predetermined vs. the pastor or the choir director running around hair on fire, maybe hours after a spill has occurred because, er…nobody ever looks back there. Perfect.
If the water has been treated and is now considered “bilge water”, then why are there all these objections to its discharge back into the environment? Is there some concern that the treatment they are going to use isn’t up to standards to consider the discharged water “bilge water”? This is a pretty uniform standard of how things work in regards to the water management system across this entire State. What is the big deal?
Furthermore, what does this issue have to do with MCC’s policy of its former school program or the issues involving the closing?
Undoubtedly to counter the equally non-sensical arguments from those who insist that it’s a good idea merely because Mountain Christian Church is behind it. And if you disagree with them, then you are an evil person who hates babies and puppies.
So MCC has had a failing system for many months! With no fine or remediation! Now they want to discharge 2400 gallons daily(on average) into the Gunpowder. Via a small stream. They do not deserve a permit. They have not acted in good faith for their neighbors. They will add 2400 toilet flushes per day. How many people are in that facility and what are they planning to expand to? SAY NO TO YHE PERMIT!
If any other organization or corporation has or is able to obtain a permit such as this, then they must be granted one as well. That’s just the way it is….
That’s why they are being blocked another system like his does not exist in Maryand. With the Churches current system that is polluting the environment everyday with no action taken to correct the issue clearly the Church just doesn’t care and a new system will suddenly make the more responsible.
Stopping this system is crucial as you state once it’s in others will follow.
I must admit that treatment of sewage and its conversion into “bilge water” is not really of my expertise, but if they are applying for a permit to create a “minor wastewater treatment plant” one would assume that the granting of the permit also means that the plant would have to conform to standards set by the State before it would be operational. If I am incorrect please tell me how this plant would differ from any other “minor wastewater treatment plant” and just for the record I do know that plants such as this are already operational as there are several on the Eastern Shore where I am originally from. Attached is a document that shows what I’m talking about. Scroll to page 94 and you will see many minor wastewater treatment plants already in service. However, if I am wrong it wouldn’t be the first time. Everyone else on the Dagger thinks I’m out of my mind so this would just be another one of those turns…..
https://www.chesapeakebay.net/channel_files/18593/maryland_qapp_for_wastewater_072612.pdf
You remind me of untreated sewage.
You are untreated sewage.
Folks! Folks! Let’s clear the air here. First, MCC is a business. Ever visited the multi campus Freedom Church at the old BMW dealership? That is a modern day “Worship” service with lights, smoke, loud music, dark sanctuary. This is what the people want and pay for! Very little disclosure of finances. Large Pastoral staff (many not listed on their website) Even the head Pastor just bought an $800,000 house which was kept hush hush! When one sheep runs off the cliff…the sad thing in real life the rest will follow to their demise. Back to MCC, Just like any business, they take the “tithes” and offerings and invest it back into their business. Make them go through the same routine with the county to obtain the permits and permission to move forward with this project. If the people pay for it, the Church should also assume all risks to the community. The also have a responsibility to the community to have a public meeting and explain this along with the county AND the Councilman representing that district. PLEASE tell me it’s not “No Vote” Joe.
Maybe they should have a candle light vigil of thoughts and prayers for their septic system. It always works.
Is that true? An $800,000 house? If I went to that church I’d be furious. Next time he wants extra money for his projects maybe remember he’s sitting by his pool sipping a mai tai while you scrap around looking for spare change to give the church.
Where have you been?
tv evangelist have been flying in private jets for decades.
What makes you think any religious place of worship is any different than anyone else trying to make some money.
Okay, so maybe they’re not at the scale of having a Gulfstream G550 with red carpet and Champaign waiting for them but who fucking cares?
If they got the money, then I don’t see why they can’t do what they want. Fucking developers do it everyday, building the shittiest/cheapest homes following all the rules and laughing all the way to the bank.
I go to church. Out pastor doesn’t live in an $800,000 house. Something is wrong with a pastor who would spend the congregations money on his own private palace.
$800,000 for one of these churches would be cheap They also typically have very expensive cars but never drive them to church they have a beater for that and the topper? It’s all owned by the church, no taxes are paid.
Not believing everything you read should be the mantra of this article. I have worked for these people I have been in their homes they are not what they present themselves to be. Do not trust them.
Don’t believe everything you read.
That’s what this process is, going through the county for permit to build, holding public meetings.
And the BMW pastor that bought a house, didn’t he just sell off his full time business… maybe that paid for a house. He built something like the baseball training facility at Rutgers while pasturing a church (though it could have been another school, memory fails with age)
I had a beer with the guys agent. I think he shared too much in my opinion (If I sold my house, I would not want that much info coming out at the bar), anyway…he was sworn to secrecy..oops! Also he said it sucked that he could not tell everyone he made a big sale. I remember the conversation well. Anyway, just remember when you give your money to the mega churches out there.
“Baltimore County urges ‘no discharge’ as church seeks Little Gunpowder Falls wastewater plant”
https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/baltimore-county/bs-md-co-wastewater-permit-20190806-lghhpo2favco7jbb5rknhsjk7m-story.html