From the Harford County Education Association:
Superintendent Canavan has recommended cuts, which include eliminating all swimming programs, closing HCPS pools and eliminating 23 teaching positions. However no cuts to the robust HCPS administrative bureaucracy were recommended. While we understand decreases in enrollment will necessitate some cuts to teaching positions, we believe it is crucial that HCPS create a more efficient and efficacious leadership structure. Without cuts to administrative positions, it will be impossible for HCPS to craft a sustainable budget, which honors its contractual obligations to teachers and other staff. Likewise, creating a sustainable budget will ensure that HCPS can continue to meet its obligations to HCPS students and the Harford County community without disruptions in services.
HCEA has consistently advocated for the elimination of the instructional facilitator position. The vast majority of teachers do not view this position as an effective professional development conduit. HCEA believes there are many more efficient and efficacious means of providing quality professional development. Currently, instructional facilitators are used almost exclusively in an evaluative capacity. This is a role that should be and previously has been performed primarily by principals. While some elementary principals have argued that the increasing workload prevents them from effectively performing evaluative duties, this argument rings hollow given the fact that secondary principals are able to perform the same evaluative tasks without instructional facilitators to assist them. No elementary principal is responsible for more teachers than the secondary principals. Likewise, the ratio of administrators to teachers in elementary schools is not higher than the ratios in secondary schools. Setting aside all arguments about the usefulness or effectiveness of the instructional facilitator position, HCPS simply cannot afford to continue to spend $1.34 million dollars each year on this redundant position.
HCEA also strongly believes that cuts within the central office of HCPS must come before cuts are made to teaching positions. There are currently at least 150 HCPS administrative employees assigned to central office. This weighty bureaucracy comes at a cost of over $14 million per year for salaries alone. While some positions have been cut over the years, the savings from these cuts have largely been absorbed by pay increases for remaining administrative staff. In fiscally lean years like we have been experiencing, it is imperative that all positions, roles and expenditures within our government agencies are re-examined. Cuts to teaching positions without appropriate cuts to central office administration are indefensible.
I, HCEA leadership and all HCEA members, realize how tough these budget decisions may be. We do not take lightly the sacrifices, which must be made by all stakeholders. We believe that through cooperation and communication, HCPS, Harford County Government and HCEA can continue to improve our schools while simultaneously increasing efficiency. We applaud the work county government has done to find efficiencies and simply ask the Harford County Board of Education to do the same. In order to recruit and retain quality teachers, HCPS must prioritize honoring contractual obligations to our teachers. Please email asking the Harford County Board of Education to preserve teaching positions and programing by making cuts to the HCPS administrative bureaucracy.
Nancy Reynolds (Nancy.Reynolds@hcps.org)
Robert Frisch (Robert.Frisch@hcps.org)
Joseph Hau (Joseph.Hau@hcps.org)
Thomas Fitzpatrick (Thomas.Fitzpatrick@hcps.org)
Rachel Gauthier (Rachel.Gauthier@hcps.org)
Laura Runyeon (Laura.Runyeon@hcps.org)
Joseph Voskuhl (Joseph.Voskuhl@hcps.org)
Jansen Robinson (Jansen.Robinson@hcps.org)
Alfred Williamson (Alfred.Williamson@hcps.org)
Barbara Canavan (Barbara.Canavan@hcps.org)
Genae Hatcher (Genae.Hatcher@hcps.org)
We anticipate action on the FY17 HCPS Budget at the Monday June 13th Harford County Board of Education meeting. Please attend the meeting and make your voice heard.
Ryan Burbey
President-HCEA
That’s the way bureaucrats play the game. If they didn’t cut teachers, close pools, do away with swimming teams, and raise the cost of sports participation, parents wouldn’t get upset and start jumping up and down and demanding more money from the Government. Just like in big cities when there is a budget problem, the first ones they suggest laying off of firemen and police. The game won’t change until someone calls their bluff.
That’s how unions work, they want pay raises but don’t want to lose jobs (members). Unions always cry about “the man” because they hate to be accountable to anything.
I think HCEA has been clear the we understand that given shrinking enrollment, there must be some realignment and reduction of teaching positions. Cutting teachers should not be the first option.
Considering that over the past 7 years the LACK of pay raises for HCPS teachers means that teachers in surrounding counties earned upwards of $30,000 more than those in HCPS, your claim of irresponsibility against HCEA is unfounded.
I’m confused of the positions listed seem like transportation and maintenance positions?
Ryan,
How come you didn’t mention the central office positions that are also being cut. I guess you are a selective reader and like to spread your propaganda.
This message has been brought to you by the staff of the Roberty Building and your local Instructional Facilitator. Keep moving. Nothing to see here.
These are not the six figure salaries you are looking for.
Yeah, boy, that’s some agenda. Wanting to see beareaucratic 6 figure jobs chopped so we don’t lose teachers and programs that directly benefit kids. You are an evil man, Ryan Burbey.
This article and the attachment of salaries is inflammatory and intended to rile people up. A matter of public record for sure but wow very disrespectful. No wonder the strife between the board and the hcea exists. How much do you make Burbey? Care to disclose that?
I make the same base salary as every teacher on my step + I get paid for 20 day work over the summer, despite working far many more days. this year I made $62,754 + $6,605 for 20 days of summer work for a total of $69,359. I should be making $73,491 in base salary alone; had HCPS not frozen teachers’ salaries for 5 out of 7 years.
http://harfordcea.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2015/09/HCEA-Negotiated-Agreement-2015-2016-9-3-15.pdf
This is public information. The information was not disclosed to be inflammatory but rather to support the numbers cited and to illustrate the need to cut positions in the administrative bureaucracy. I deliberately removed names from the information to try to eliminate the spotlighting of individuals. It is not about the individuals but rather the affordability of the positions.
$69,359, but what have you accomplished this year?
How many former HCEA members have you emailed, pleading with them to return because they’ve quit the organization due to your ineffective and inflammatory leadership? You need to offer a bit more than a vision plan and whiny internet comments if you want people to pay hundreds of dollars per year in dues.
And how about giving members an actual receipt for their dues so they can claim it on their taxes?
Really, I am not a huge fan, but what is hcea is really going to accomplish? If the teachers or school employees had the power to strike we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
All they can do is make public pleas for help. The big problem in our county is no one cares.
I say cut all after school activities. Don’t just cut swimming, and close the pools cut it all. No football, soccer, plays, band concerts etc. See if that gets people fired up.
Until the mass public makes a stink we go thru this every year.
You don’t need a receipt to claim organization dues on your taxes.
What:
But you need to know how much you paid in that calendar year.
It’s called recruitment and that’s what effective leadership does! I’m sure HCEA lost several members for several different reasons ~ a lot of which probably has little to do with Burbey and more to do with tightening their purse strings due to the budget and lack of pay raises and steps year after year. I give Burbey much credit for his ability to maintain focus on his vision through all the scrutiny and criticism; especially from many of whom his efforts benefit.
The payroll deduction for Kharn, HCEA dues are shown on teacher’s paystubs. And the HCEA dues amount is not a hidden secret.
Maybe you should get accurate information before you spout off, jackass.
Kharn, the fact that you actually think that teachers don’t know what amount they pay for union dues, don’t know that they can write them off on their taxes, and don’t know how to do so just shows what an arrogant, condescending jerk you are. And the fact that you try to come off as looking out for the teacher’s best interest by attacking probably their strongest advocate while all along you do nothing but bash and condemn those same teachers…do you really think people can’t see through this ridiculous tactic?
Spout is correct. You ARE a jackass.
Kharn:
Not hard to figure out since it shows up as a deduction on the paycheck.
Let me tell you something, as a custodian we bust are ass. we breath in chemicals every day to make your floors shine, we clean up your puke and your coffee spills, Every year waiting for a pay raise, will it come? Keep on working multiple jobs to support your family. We are called at all hours of the night for alarms. Respond to after hours calls. push heavy snow. Nobody cares.
Now, don’t you look foolish,Joe?
Ryan has a point here. If you look closely at the salaries, you will see two main types of jobs. You have jobs that fulfill the mission of helping students and teachers succeed and you have executive functioning jobs. In lean years, it is the executive functioning jobs that needs to be scaled back. Jobs in operations, human resources, professional development, construction, etc. need to significantly be scaled back. As examples, you could combine the positions of Chief of Administration and Asst. Superintendent for Operations. You could combine Asst. Superintendent for HR and Senior Manager in HR. These cuts would have almost no impact on your ability to support students and teachers. If we are able to provide the steps and COLA to teachers, we wouldn’t need as many HR people anyway. I would reclassify the elementary IF’s as building managers in our neediest elementary and secondary schools to serve as test coordinators/ IEP Chair/ intervention efforts. Cutting teachers makes no sense to the real mission of the school system.
EXCESS CAPACITY. Consolidate.
We need to build new schools. No one can learn anything in a building older than 20 years. Just look at Harvard……
But I bet what is INSIDE those old Harvard buildings is state-of-the-art modern technology.
Harvard’s buildings, if you haven’t actually seen them, have a few things over HCPS’s buildings in terms of architectural excellence and historical interest and significance. Not to mention, Harvard’s endowment, at about 32 BILLION dollars, means they can afford costly renovations and maintenance, even if it would be more cost-effective to build new buildings. I can’t say for certain, but I don’t think HCPS has an endowment that quite compares to Harvard’s. So when HVAC, roofing, technology, etc. upgrades are needed, it’s possibly more fiscally responsible to construct than renovate.
Um… can we back up that truck for a moment. Has anyone ever looked into having an independent Audit performed on the positions (other than teachers). I find it extremely disappointing that teachers are being asked to fund their own supplys and are paid significantly less (but required to have more certifications) than those in Central Office. An Administrative Assistant makes 76K…..when a teacher makes less.
Also being in the IT field… you mean to tell me you have a Network Administration and an Email Administrator… NEWSFLASH…. if you can’t find an network administrator who can’t admin and exchange server KEEP LOOKING. This should not be two separate jobs… many Network Admins run multiple servers in which EMAIL is a server (Microsoft exchange server).
My question… has an Audit ever been done to look at all these positions and if they can be cut because they duplicate and/or are redundant. Bring the folks in who say “so what exactly would you say your job here is?”. Teachers should not be getting cut looking at this list…I see some redundancies already.
Have to agree with the headline on this one. If you have less teachers in the county, then why are more “Administrative Support” staff required?
Does every “executive” on the County School Board really need a secretary, or can they share?
As in every city, state, federal government office – administrative staff is often a bloat on the system.
Burbey’s letter is very enlightening but not surprising. In looking at the salary figures and how the numbers add up so massively, remember too that certain categories are filled by numerous individuals (e.g., pupil personnel workers).
After teaching in two public school systems, I taught for a number of years in private schools. One of the great benefits of non-public schools is the freedom from over-evaluation and the freedom for crafting a curriculum (content emphasis, methods, materials, etc,) that one felt best met the students’ needs, not one predetermined by a “curriculum specialist” at a central office.
Mr. Burbey, can you plases explain to me what the position of instructional facilitator entails? I thought they were just located within the classroom, helping students. I’m vary curious what they do at the central office.
The instruction facilitators do not work directly with children. IFs are used primarily to observe & evaluate teachers, as well as, conduct conferences related to these observations and evaluations. Most teachers do not feel supported by the If position and do not find that the IFs delivery of professional development is substantive, effective or relevant to their classrooms.
This clown is full of hot air. He doesn’t even represent “most” of the teachers…Burbey Blah, Blah, Blah. Frisch is the only person listening to this guy
Didn’t I see you on “Lost In Space”? Sounds like you are still lost.
I think that was William Mummy, but he does sound like he has some empty space between the ears.
Instructional facilitators do teacher observations. They don’t work with the students. They perform a function formerly performed by county subject-area supervisors and principals. I am not sure what the supervisors do now that someone else is observing the teachers but I can tell you that I would prefer to be observed by my supervisor who actually knows my curriculum rather than an instructional facilitator who knows nothing about my content or if I am teaching it effectively.
There have been more than enough “audits” on positions and streamlining but nothing has ever been done with the results. We pay the big bucks to have them done for nothing.
You are absolutely right about audits being done, large sums of money spent and nothing being done with the information. It’s quite the contrary for school-based administrators though. When test results come out administrators have to do something to address any concerns that the data shows. When school climate surveys are done, administrators are responsible for addressing those concerns as well. Again when do we expect central office and the Board of Education to be held accountable for anything. They’re spending money – no accountability. I don’t know of any school-based administrators or instructional staff who could get away with not developing a plan to address any concerns or improvements that need to be made. But that’s the HCPS way – at least since Canavan took over.
Does anyone know if we can get the results of the last audits that were performed? Are they Public Record?
Also the responses from HCBOE on the said recommendations.
It is time for teachers in Harford County to seek employment elsewhere. I moved to another Maryland county last year. I received a $17,000 raise because they honored my years of service to Harford County. The county I work in respects and values the teachers and the Board works with the Association to reach agreements that are in the best interests of all parties. Unfortunately, until there is a massive paradigm shift in thinking in Harford County, the school system will continue to lose experienced teachers to neighboring counties who value the work they do.
Which county & do you know a good realtor?
HCPS has always thought they were special and that people were clamoring to teach here. I think that was indeed the case until the last few years when Canavan took over. If the mass exodus to neighboring counties isn’t sending the message to central office that there is a concern, then central office and the BOE are either not paying attention or simply don’t care!
Those salaries don’t even include the secret bonuses that the top are getting. Some as high as $38,000 dollars in addition to their 130,000 plus salaries. Why not cut the instructional tech dept., the only thing they pushed for is for allowing cell phones in the classroom which has been a total fiasco that they won’t admit. The reason for this was so they could do away with the cell phone policy, so they would have less referrals to the office and parents complaining that they can’t get ahold of their kid 24/7. The students are on the cell phones texting constantly, cheating, taking pictures, etc. You got a staff of 7+ there that easily cost a half million in total.
I do not believe the BYOT was an attempt to reduce the number of referrals. This was an attempt to bring technology into the classroom without having to fund it.
With those big salaries should come great accountability. Where is it? We need to be sure we are getting our money’s worth. If ANY school in this district is not meeting the standard, shouldn’t it fall on some of these people’s shoulders since they are the ones at our central office calling all of the shots? Teachers are held accountability for student performance and is part of their evaluation. Is this the same for them with school performance?
I am surprised that secretaries in the administrative building make more than many teachers.
Oh then you want to work 260 days versus your 190? You would need to work summers, winter holidays and many other days you are currently are off. Plus your ignorance shows that many of the executive level assistants have degrees. Many of those secretaries are handling the parent phone calls created by poor decisions made by teachers.
Admin also receive 5 weeks paid vacation and 20 ish sick/personal days. Teachers receive 15 sick/personal days and zero paid vacation days. For a teacher to be absent for illness they must provide sub lesson plans and then grade those assignments when the return, so they are being docked a full day when they are still providing a service to their students.
Time to trim the fat.
At the BOE meeting Monday, when the closing of the swimming pools was brought up, Bob Frisch made a great point. He said something to the effect of, “This is the first time that I remember considering closing the swimming pools in HCPS. If we had recommended closing the swimming pools in our original budget that we sent to the County Executive, he may have had different thoughts about how much funding to provide HCPS.” I think HCPS should go even further on this point. Why not recommend for some schools to be closed and see if that changes the minds of those in County Government about how much funding HCPS needs.
What is even more interesting is the reaction that Canavan and Reynolds gave to Frisch when he made that comment. They were clearly angered by it. It seems that they would have a problem with this line of thinking and actually playing hardball with the County Government. It almost seems like they are in cahoots with the county government.
It’s time for major cuts in HCPS and someone needs to step up and make them. Canavan and Reynolds certainly are not the folks to do it.
BINGO! Canavan and Reynolds are tied at the hip ~ what one does, says, thinks or grimace, so does the other! There wasn’t this much acrimony between HCPS and county government when Tomback was here. Good for Frisch for having some backbone. Sadly, nobody likes to “rock the boat”. So I’m sure he is the lone voice of “let’s have some tough conversations and accomplish something” up at the BOE.
I would venture to guess that the majority of work that is put out by these high-paid central office professionals is a product of a committee of teachers or building administrators doing the work– focus groups, curriculum writers,etc. I have been one of those people. We need to look closely at what these folks are bringing to the table and the cost/return ratio.
As an outsider, it seems to me that the first order of business is to fire (or vote out of office) the entire school board and start over with a new batch of non good ol’ boys at the top.
Then a new mission statement should be drafted and approved by a ballot referendum This mission statement should clearly and unambiguously state exactly what the HCPS is and why it is needed and what it will do to meet this need and how it will do it..
Then, a major overhaul of the administration should be made based on how well each administrator and his function accomplishes this mission.
It is clear that the current HCPS system is a farce and waste of taxpayer money. There is no reason why enrolment in the public schools is declining during a period of major residential expansion. The lack of adequate teacher compensation along with diversion of HCPS budget into non-school projects should be addressed and corrected ASAP.
One area that needs to be examined is the role of the administrative secretary. With the increase in word processing technology and email, an administrator no longer needs a secretary to type his letters and reports or to look after his mail. I am sure there could be major savings in this area especially since some of them earn more than a teacher (i.e. overhead vs production).
Just for the record, having an administrator hand write his letters/reports then hand them to someone else to type is a duplication of effort and should be eliminated.
Teachers are the heart and soul of an educational system. Education can not be prepackaged and delivered like Twinkies to the consumer (aka students). Education must be custom fitted for each child.
It is the teacher who must make the alterations to fit the needs of his or her students. And the teachers need the latitude to accomplish this. An educational assistant should be facilitating the teachers in this regard – not “evaluating their performance.:
Foolishness such as this “teacher assistant” need to be ferretted out and eliminated wherever it rears its head.
There is much wrong with the HCPS system and most of the blame must be laid at the feet of the school board director and his committee. Change that doesn’t start here will not deliver any real improvement to the school system.
It is up to the voting taxpaying citizens of his county to demand the quality of education for which they are paying dearly.
Do you pay attention to school board meetings? Not every school board is as worthless as you would suggest.
Are you a school board member? This board should be voted out of office. They want to cut our swim programs and swimming pools? What an outrage. The board is asking softball questions at meetings and we still don’t know what they are going to do about teacher pay. Sorry, but they are not heroes.
Who said they were heroes? Did you attend or watch the last school board meeting? The school board didn’t make the recommendation to close the pools, the Superintendent and her staff did. It is clear that not every school board member supports the recommendation. Built into the overall budget recommendation is a two step and 1.5 % cola raise for all eligible school system employees. Everyone will have their chance to render judgement on the school board members at the ballot box in two years.
I watched the meeting and the school board members asked mostly soft questions. Some members seemed to end up agreeing with the administration when answers were given. No one on the board said anything explicit about the future of swim programs, like “I’m against ending the swim teams.” Some didn’t even say anything on swimming even though schools in their districts are affected, and two were not there. We shouldn’t have to read between the lines. The proposal from the administration is now the contingent plan of 1.5 percent COLA and one step. We’ll see what this board does at the next meeting for students and teachers.
Harford Parent –
All the reporting says the salary package recommendation includes two steps. Initial presentations and recommendations before the school board (as well as the County Council) routinely result if few questions. Debate and specific positions usually occur when votes must be cast. Then you will know where each school board member stands on pools and other parts of the Superintendent’s proposed budget.
Pretty pathetic that secretaries are paid more than most teachers- do they have a masters degree????? What a joke.
Maybe if you were smart enough to know that secretaries work 55 more days in a year then teachers you would be able calculate that they don’t make more than teachers.
15 years ago I worked as the camera operator in adult films and made more than teachers. Heck, I wore a tyvex suit and face mask similar to a grinding shield
was it cool?
Fill in the pools and build a few classrooms in the now empty space.
Didn’t the majority of administrators start as teachers? What I’d like to compare is our salaries compared to teachers administators. 54 schools is a major company, it cannot run itself? Why is Burbey so against Instructional Facilitators? It’s as if he has a personal grudge.
The board of education approved a 1.5 %COLA and a 1 or 2 steps. They also saved the pools and the swim teams and overnight stays at Harford Glen. But they may have been irresponsible by taking the money for all this out of fund balance (the savings for emergencies ) without looking at other places. That’s just kicking the can down the road. What are they going to do next year? There is no guarantee that 100 dollar athletic fees and the new drama fee with no notice will have the same revenue. All the board showed last night was they are only interested in getting reelected or elected somewhere else.
Where do you think a fund balance comes from? Revenue of X and then spend only Y – bank the difference. By the way, it looks like there were many millions extra over the high end of the fund balance target, and the minimum fund balance required at least as of a few years ago was only $500,000. Having a healthy fund balance is a good and responsible thing. However, it is hard to defend the position of choosing not to pay your obligations/bills in order to stash more funds away adding to the almost 30 million in the bank over the last 7 years. I believe the policy was changed a few years ago to allow the money in the fund balance to be used as revenue in the next year’s budget and to be spent on recurring expenses not just one-time items. I agree that a can has been continually kicked down the road – competitive compensation along with replacing badly outdated and inadequate technology in many schools.
The increase in Pay to Play was advertised a whole week in advance at the same meeting where closing pools was first suggested.
Yes, but adding drama to the activity fee was introduced for the first time during the school board meeting without telling the public. The public had no chance to comment on adding drama before it was approved. The only people who knew it was going to be brought up were members of the school board. The public shoud be allowed to give their opinions to the board before they do something that’s going to affect students and parents. Also what’s next? Are they going to add honor societies, academic clubs, yearbook, and student government?
Burbey is against facilitators because almost all of the teachers are. He’s just voicing the overwhelming majority of teacher opinions he hears.
I was disappointed in watching the Bd. of Ed. meeting last night. It was obvious that Frisch, Williamson, and Robinson don’t have a good understanding of how a school system should work. They had to explain to Williamson over and over what a fund balance is.
HCPS is doing nothing more then treading water at this point. Doing just enough to survive. I actually thought closing the pools was the first forward thinking they have done, but they caved.
My money is that only the first part of the raise is given, and come January it will be Oh we don’t have the funds. Maybe all employees can get a free stay at Harford Glen or a key to the pools.
You don’t know what you are talking about.
Dale,
Actually, I am not so sure that you read that exchange correctly. If you you did any fishing, you might understand. I think they knew exactly what they were doing.
Not coming through in January is not a legal option. The teacher contract is not subject to availibilty of funds this year.
How about this; show us a report of everything that fund balance has been used for over the last 10 years. This is a secret stash of monies used beyond any oversight. The “smoke & mirrors” comment makes me think that the Board Members know exactly what fund balance is. Williamson was on point. The only time the two amigos in the center got their faces in more of a twist was when they argued amongst themselves over who was going to respond to zeroing out the budget to start. The Superintendent put her puppet in her place and took the mic. It would seem to be the President of the Board that does not know her role. How long till the Superintendent’s contract is up?? btw, what ever happened to Mr. Jewell?
Mr. Jewell retired last year. He is surely missed.
Just saw a great one today. HCPS facilities has their very own roll off dumpster truck. Doing a quick search these vehicles go used from $125,000 to $175,000, and we know it wasn’t purchased used. So along with this truck they need their own dumpsters, driver and probably a helper doing nothing in the passenger seat and all the maintenance. Why is HCPS in the trash hauling business? Who ok’s this sort of blatant waste? There are companies that do this as a business and HCPS should put it out to bid, but like any other department of the county government cost savings and efficiency are not the goal. It’s no wonder the underpaid teachers are pissed.
Who cares?
Yankee,
You should care. Your money is paying for it. Even if you are not a property owner, some of your tax money goes to support this sort of waste.
One rolloff truck is a drop in the bucket.
I’m so tired of the “taxpayer” schtick people spew over and over.
Yankee,
If you were buying education for your children on the open market, what factors would be of concern to you? Tuition? Books? Facilities? Quality of teachers and curriculum?
As a citizen, the HCPS is making these choices for you and using your money to do it. Don’t you care how these people spend your money? Aren’t you concerned at how little you can do to change it?
I am and I appreciate reading about government pork from people who know more than I do. Maybe our complaints will be heard, maybe they won’t, but like God said to the man who lamented not winning the lottery, you have to buy a ticket first.
Nope, don’t care. Not my problem.
I’ll deal with a $175,000 HCPS rolloff dumpster truck if he crashes into my car or house, until then, fug’ it.
You are correct it is a drop in a bucket which is overflowing with waste and self serving greed at the expense of properly educating children. You will never see such waste in private schools anywhere because they realize the business they are in actually is educating first.
“driver and probably a helper doing nothing in the passenger seat and all the maintenance.”
Driver and helper were already on the payroll. This truck replaced a dump truck. Maintenance was going to happen regardless (it already was happening).
“Why is HCPS in the trash hauling business?”
Facilities has been hauling “trash” in various forms (yard debris, broken furniture or gym equipment, demolition materials, out of date text books, etc.) for a long time. By being able to leave a can on the ground, this truck makes it a lot more efficient than the previous methods of either hand loading (and unloading) onto a box truck or hauling in a skid loader to fill a dump truck. It doesn’t just have to haul trash. As Mom noted, it can haul more mulch or playground chips than the dump trucks, and just about anything else that fits into the can. It also does snow plow and salt duty, has a flat bed, and can tow a trailer.
“Who ok’s this sort of blatant waste?”
It was approved by the board. It is actually one of the most useful and widely used purchases. I wouldn’t be surprised if the next time there is money to replace a dump truck, they get another hook truck. Come on and see for yourself. You’ve got time to get your resume in by 6/22.
“It’s no wonder the underpaid teachers are pissed.”
HCPS buys their truck off of bid or existing government contracts. I don’t think the truck and cans cost more than $150k…but let’s just say it was $200k. This was a one time purchase, it’s not costing them anything anymore. Suppose they gave that money to the teachers. How many are there in the system? Let’s say there are 1,000 teachers (I’m sure there have got to be more than that, but it makes the math easy and I’m a product of HCPS, so I like easy math). That’s an extra $200 per teacher. Now $200 is $200, I certainly wouldn’t turn it down. Let’s put it on their paychecks as a raise. If they get 26 paychecks, that’s an extra $7.69 per paycheck. Hmmm…that doesn’t seem like so much to write home about now, does it? Well, what happens next year, when that $200K is not available? $7.69 less on this year’s check than last year’s sure is going to get noticed, isn’t it?
Honestly, though, that whole little exercise I did is bunk anyway. The money that bought that truck came from other sources that could never have been used to pay teachers anyway.
“I’m so tired of the “taxpayer” schtick people spew over and over. ”
Agreed. Everybody has a better idea of how to spend tax dollars than those who are actually responsible for doing it.
“you have to buy a ticket first. ”
You can apply for the Facilities job, too. Jim isn’t a shoe-in. It’s on hcps.org, under “Current Job Openings,” then the “Support Staff–Other” tab.
“You will never see such waste in private schools ”
I don’t know of any private schools that have over 50 campuses to maintain…so I would be surprised if any of them were buying hook trucks.
There is indeed waste in HCPS, but when it comes to this truck, you’ll only see it inside the can.
minion
Where are your supporting figures? Don’t let your emotions cloud your thinking. It’s the bottom line that counts.
Judging from your argument, no one really knows exactly how much this truck is costing the much maligned taxpayer.
One of the issues in this year’s presidential race is transparency in government. This truck business needs a little more transparency.
“Jim in Hickory” preach it, girl!
Sub that job out to me. Not only would you be footing the bill for the equipment, my Peterbilt has to have all the chrome, and LED lighting to go a long with it. Add another $20,000 to the top and that’s where I’m at.
It took me a long time slsving in my locally owned private business, but now Jim in Hickory, I’m watching the money count itself, much like yourself?
It’s 8:15, time to check my email and send out the bids.
I actually saw this truck in action at my school. It was hauling in playground mulch that Facilities was spreading on our playground. I have also witnessed the dumpsters being used for recycling of metal and during campus clean ups it was used to drop off flower bed mulch and then was left on site for us to put our yard waste in which was then recycled at the landfill. Also, I noticed that during the winter months this truck was equipped with a snow plow and salt spreader which allowed it to clean and salt our school parking lots. Looks like a very efficient piece of equipment year round. But what do I know, I’m just a Mom. 🙂
And you’re not obsessed like Jim in Hickory!
Hcps Mom
All these functions can be provided by private contractor.
Where is the paperwork that requested bids. explains how they were evaluated, and what criteria was used to determined it was more economical to buy a truck, hire personnel to operate it and do maintenance in house?
Why don’t you call the school board and ask them? Be sure to get back to us when you find out.
HCPS tries to keep up a vehicle replacement schedule. It is contingent on available funding, and, of course, way behind. This particular truck was the replacement for an older dump truck that was traded in. Therefore, no additional staff was needed and no additional maintenance costs were incurred. Vehicle purchases are bid out and HCPS can ride existing government contracts to get surprisingly good prices…better than you or I could get. Big purchases like (and including) this one go before the school board for approval.
Yes, contractors use trucks just like it. You may have even hired one yourself, but I bet you didn’t get the bargain the tax payers are out of this one. Let’s look at what is built into the cost of hiring a dumpster truck:
1) Truck payment. HCPS’s truck was already paid for out of the budget from a few years ago. It (and the accompanying dumpsters) arrived paid off. The LG tags are permanent, so the $800+ a year registration fee that the contractor has to pay for a commercial vehicle (out of your bill) isn’t a factor for HCPS. They self insure. I don’t know exactly how that works, but I bet it’s cheaper than Geico. Whether you agreed with the purchase or not, it was a done deal and the truck is now free and clear.
2) Fuel and maintenance. HCPS probably gets a better rate on fuel and oil, and their mechanics don’t cost much more than their drivers, but we’ll call this a draw. Both trucks gotta eat.
3) Profit. If the contractor is just paying the bills, s/he won’t be a contractor much longer. HCPS is operating at cost.
4) Driver’s salary. For the sake of fairness, let’s say you have one of the HCPS drivers who has been there for more than ten years…MAYBE he’s getting paid $20 an hour ($15 is more likely). The contractor driver is getting paid too, perhaps more? On top of that, the HCPS driver’s salary is already built into the budget. He’s going to cost you that $20 per hour whether he’s driving the truck, just washing it, or on vacation. You might as well get some work out of him!
miniom
Once again. where is the supporting paperwork. I’m sure you believe your numbers to be correct but you don’t really know.
To properly evaluate the cost of operating this truck, someone needs to specify exactly what has been spent to acquire this truck, the costs of operating this truck for one year plus the hourly cost of the personnel times the actual number of hours spent doing projects that require this truck.
The actual calculated cost of the HCPS owning/operating this truck should then be weighed against the bids from contractors.
If there are people who are taking a free ride on the county nickel, it is managements job to identify these people and make the necessary adjustments.
HCPS has a fleet of dump trucks that could do any one of those tasks not to mention there are dozens of Harford county business’s that do this as their sole operation more efficiently and at a lower cost.
Jim! I’m so glad you are here! There is a perfect opportunity for you to learn all about this truck and maybe even get to drive it yourself. There is a job opening in the grounds shop of the HCPS facilities maintenance department. It’s an entry level position, like most of them, with a starting salary of $28,121. Steps and COLA’s are tied to what the teachers get, so you’d easily be making $30k by 2025, if not sooner.
While you’re there, you can lead by example and tell the guys, “No, I’m not going to Wawa.” With your hard hitting public sector work ethic, you’ll surely be noticed and promoted in short order…well…as soon as higher positions become available…you won’t get a raise just for being a good worker. If you stick with it long enough to work your way up the ladder into a supervisory position (should only take 15-20 or so years), then you can tell the guys, “No, YOU are not going to Wawa.” Won’t that be a glorious day?
Go to the HCPS website and click on, “Current Job Openings.” It’s a small blue banner in about the middle of the page. Then click on the, “Support Staff-Other” tab and scroll down. It’s the first one on the list. Better hurry, the deadline is 6/22.
Thank you minion. You took the words right out of my mouth. I believe the salary comes out to be roughly $13-$14 an hour for a CDL Class A driver. Not sure how they have enough money to afford their Wawa stops. Lol
Its all bullshit, fuck man we work are asses off in the schools and brethe in toxic chemicals all summer long, plunge toilets, wax floors, assemble furniture, mow grass, work events, have the public yell at us. We make less then 30 grand a year. Id like to eat a steak but I cant even afford my dentures. This is big bullshit. some of the people Do nothing, like really people THEY HAVE PEOPLE IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM WEHO ARE BIG FRAUDS. THEY DO NOTHING. THEY DONT TEACH KIDS, THEY SIT AROUND AND DO NOTHING>
County employee’s work as hard as I do.
The only difference is that I’ve gotten jobs that I overpriced sky high because I didn’t want to do them. I just made a crazy amount of profit on a homeowner job that I was really too busy to mess with but I did anyway because the guy wouldn’t leave me alone!
I keep everything in check, no injuries or equipment breakdowns and I’m golden.
Jim, what is the annual cost for HCPS to perform all the work involved with their dump trucks, and what would the cost be for them to hire an outside firm to do the same work? I figure that since you made this statement, you must have some numbers that you can share with us to substantiate your claim.
Hickory Jim and forever amber you do realize that the crew your trying to contract out is made up of 12 guys who all have there class a cdl’s and make between 28 and 35 k a year. They are responsible for all 54 schools. Taking care of the black topping,playgrounds,tree trimming,mowing,transfering and removal of furniture,dirt work, athletic fields, hauling mulch, all your excavation, snow removal (which does involve staying the night and sleeping in there trucks), transferring of athletic equipment (wrestling mats,soccer goals,etc), fencing,signs,etc I know I am missing a few things. So I would like to know how you can contract out all this services and come in with a number lower than what those 12 guys make a year. One of the uses for the dumpster truck along with many other things is that when a school has disposal items instead of having 4 guys and 2 moving trucks go and remove everything and haul it away they drop a dumpster off and the school fills it saving time on man power and trucks. A little research for you 2 would go a long way.
Call Humpty Dumpster, that is their business.
Really? You do realize how much they charge for dumpsters right? I think you just need to worry about what you do best holding up the trash can at wawa
Big Papa
And do you have the paperwork from the bidding process that determined it was cheaper to buy a $200,000 roll off truck and hire personnel to operate and maintain it?
There are established procedures for this sort of thing and they require evaluating the lowest bid from a private concern (or perhaps another state or county agency) against the cost of buying (not renting) a truck costing in excess of $175,000 plus the cost of staffing and maintain the truck (minus depreciation on the truck plus the yearly advances in salary of the operating and maintaining staff).
So I would like to see where you got your numbers supporting your supposition that is cheaper to buy a truck and hire 12(!) people to staff it. I could run a spreadsheet for you but instead, I refer you to the Purchasing Department of the HCPS for the actual figures (if they exist).
Since you and Jim in Hickory are the ones saying there is all this waste in HCPS why don’t the two of you ask for the documentation to support your claims? Do it for just this one truck. You can file a freedom of information request for the documentation for the purchase, dumpster, salaries of those who operate it, what purposes it is used for, etc. Then you will have facts to support your claims because all I see form you at this point is speculation. Put in the time and effort to substantiate your accusations. Otherwise you are just speculating without solid evidence.
suggestion
Please note that the request for information is in the mail.
It is my position that the HCPS needs a complete and thorough top to bottom audit by an independent auditing firm.
And certain persons should find their facts some place besides their bodily orifices.
Forever Amber, have you heard back from your request for information, and will you please share with the rest of us?
Forever Amber, do you have any updates on your request for information? In other comments, you suggested that my emotions might be clouding my thinking and that I needed facts. It’s been almost a year. I’m calm now, and would love to hear the facts that you requested. You went right to the source, so I would hope whatever facts they gave you would be the most accurate.
Thank you.
Minion.
Thank you for your interest.
As a matter of fact I did receive a response. There were no details. There was no list if competitive bids, no cost analysis, nothing to justify the purchase other than they received an offer they couldn’t resist … so they bought it.
Jim started this with his post that started with “just saw a good one today”. He claimed tbe system would save money by contractong this work out, but that saving money was not the sysrem’s goal.
So, he must have some kind of information that led him to make this statement, and if he does, I don’t see why he wouldn’t share it with us. The only other possibility is that he has no evidence to support his claim, which is therefore not factual but simply a rant of ignorance. That others have requested his information and he not only hasn’t provided it but has suggested other people collect evidence instead shows very clearly that he has no idea what he’s talking about, which is typical for him.
So Jim (and Amber), if you are are angered by something you see, and you immediately assume the worst, and you refuse to seek evidence that might refute your assumption, then you deserve all the stress and anxiety that your assumption causes you.
Call
I don’t get excited when I see something that angers me, I do something about it even if the effort proves useless.
I would like to sit in my comfortable chair in front of my computer and pass judgment on all read, but that sort of response has lead this country to the position in which it currently finds itself.
The “people” who bothered to vote assumed their representatives were working for the voters benefits. This lack of accountability to the people who put them in office has resulted in our country loosing its ability to feed, cloth, and educate the populous while running up a truly staggering national debt that we the people cannot possibly hope to pay off. This does not include the one trillion dollars of consumer debt this year.
We as a country are headed for a disaster of epic proportion that will result in the lost of income, savings and wealth of the American people.
But of course you know nothing about this because you get your news from the media and they are not telling us the truth. Nether are our politicians. They know that when the truth hits the airwaves they will have to do some pretty fancy tap dancing to stay out of prison.
Open your eyes for heaven’s sake. Why aren’t you demanding answers to the government waste you see around you. I don’t know about you, but I work hard for the money I earn and I expect my taxes to work just as hard for me.
If you haven’t picked up on it yet those who think this isn’t a problem….. Are probably the people who work for HCPS not wanting their slop bucket disturbed.
Amber-
If you make a strong claim, have some evidence to back it up. That’s it.
“Jim in Hickory” , you go girl!
He’s got the idea. Sub out that job to me, I love it.
Not only will my prices be ridiculous on the scale of cha-ching, dolla’dolla’, your hard earned taxes will go from your pocket, and eventually be making its way into my pocket.
You’re going to be paying for a brand new Peterbilt every other year if I get in on that, you’ll also be paying for a large family of mine to fly first class to island destination’s every year too.
Sup’bro? You thought I ain’t in it to make a profit and have nice stuff too, like you? Shiiiet, girl.
At least someone here gets it. This is exactly how subcontracting out services to the lowest bidder works.You get the contract, then hire employees worthy of the task get it done in record time, pocket the money and go on vacation.The current system rewards waste and laziness.
HCPS needs to hire contractor dude as a sub he clearly knows how to make money while saving taxpayer dollars.
So apparently the #2 at aberdeen high school is a drunken alcholic and sleeps in the school on the down low, he’s a thief and he steals money and nothing is ever done about it because the administration covers his back, this is very upsetting because the other workers are the ones who deals with this nonsense and this is total bullshit. Something needs to be done about this guy, really he needs to be fired and he always gets away with the shit, i can guarantee you if someone was to come over here to see what was going on he would get busted and the workers would be relieved.
Fred
If you can document this person’s behavior, I’ll write a letter to the school board and the county executive. If I don’t get a response from them, I’ll write to who ever manages the schools at the state level.
If this person is drinking on the job, the job, in front of impressionable students, he needs to be fired.
He also needs to start going to AA, but I’m only concerned about his on the job behavior.
All the things you stated has already been done and the administration still puts up with it, because they tend to over look his behavior, what can be done next, because this need to be dealt with as soon as possible. He doesn’t drink in front of the kids but it’s very noticeable when has been drinking, he’s loud and obnoxious when he’s been drinking and you can smell the alcohol coming from his pores when he’s been drinking. Everyone knows he drinks and nothing is ever done about it. what can we do about this?
Fred,
You know, there are laws against public intoxication and school is a public place. When he gets loud and obnoxious and smells of alcohol, call the police and report him. It may not do any good, but you don’t know if you don’t try.
Amber,
There is a police officer right there in the school. So either that officer is not doing his/her job or the allegations are not true. Personally, I don’t know if the allegations are true and I suspect that Fred Flintstone doesn’t either.
Prepare yourself for a defimation lawsuit.
C’mon, Fred, name the person. There are multiple #2’s at Aberdeen. Don’t be shy, Freddie, let’s get the name.
Not Fred, but I know it is the only one that works at night being described. The officer on duty is probably gone by the time these things are happening.
Names are not necessary, these are facts and Barney if u know the person then u know these things are true so I don’t need to give you any names and yes the officer is gone by the time these things are going on, i’ll tell you what just come on down here after 8pm and you will get the truth about what i’m saying. Facts are facts and barney you should know the facts before you start running your trap. Every other Thursday which is on pay days he’s either not here or he’s here juiced up, now that’s a fact for you.