From Harford County government:
Harford County Executive Barry Glassman issued the following statement Friday regarding large new capital projects in the fiscal year 2016:
“Although I expect to give a status report on the county’s fiscal condition at my State of the County address on February 2, I have begun to notify some agencies that large new capital projects will be deferred until the county’s revenue picture improves and our efficiency measures take hold.
Because of an impending hearing date with the state Interagency Committee on School Construction, the Harford County Board of Education was the first agency to be notified that I reluctantly plan to defer funding of the Havre de Grace Middle/High School project in my proposed budget for fiscal year 2016. I also requested that the proposed Joppatowne High School project be deferred.
These and any future deferrals are not a reflection on the merits of planned projects. Rather, they reflect ongoing fiscal pressures that call for a temporary delay in large, multi-year commitments and additions to the county’s debt obligations. My hope is that my administration’s efforts to streamline government and promote economic development will allow the county to put worthy projects back on track as soon as possible. “
Sounds like good management.
What’s with the thumbs down? Expect nothing less from new CE. Give the man a chance at least.
“My hope is that my administration’s efforts to streamline government and promote economic development will allow the county to put worthy projects back on track as soon as possible.“
HdG and Joppatowne – you can kiss new schools good bye for the next 20 years. The county government is incapable of streamlining and developing economic activity. Glassman will prove himself a big do nothing, which is actually an improvement over the last buffoon.
People always ask about why we need new schools.
If you take a look at the astronomical costs and epic failures that have been had (recently) by attempting to modernize an existing free standing school building, you will realize it makes more sense to build a new one.
Take a drive around Baltimore county some time and look at all the old schools still educating students some how.
It is not the building, it’s what goes on inside the building. I do agree that buildings which have been allowed to deteriorate through maintenance neglect need to be rebuilt or rehabbed to ensure that they are safe. Replacement just because they are 40 plus years old is not a good reason to replace a building.
Joppatowne high was not a new building just HVAC.
Tonka truck would have us tearing down Hopkins, Gilman Notre Dame, McDonough St Paul And thousands of other schools because for no other reason but they are old….
That’s nutty.
No, what’s nutty is conflating private universities with BILLION dollar endowments and public schools that are constitutionally required.
What does the size of an endowment have to do with the cost of maintaining an old building vs building a new one?
Rand Mcnally, how about quoting chapter and verse for the constitutiolly required schools? I am always interested in learning more about our foundation documents. My education in those documents was actually nonexistant since I attended public schools and they didn’t teach that sort of stuff.
Our State Constitution Article VIII
Good for him. The HDG project was never anything more than a bloated self serving exercise for the previous CE to get his name on another building. .. and dig the county more into the hole. ..
Thank you County Executive Glassman. Now if you could go after the County Employees that were responsible for the maintenance and upkeep of the buildings that didn’t do their jobs.
None,
Those would be HCPS employees, not “County Employees” as you say.
HARFORD COUNTY Public School employees. What part of County employee didn’t you understand?
None, you name is very appropriate. Nope, nada, zilch or none..
HCPS employees are not the same as HCG employees. Two separate entities only related by jurisdiction but not under the same management.
No, but they are funded by the same constituency and mechanism, so please…quit trying to advance that tired refrain.
There is no incentive to do a good job when you are a county employee. If the county subcontracted out jobs, the costs would be fixed with no payment till done correctly. When it’s done in house there is no reason to do it quickly or correctly when you can make more money being slow and stupid.
Oh and there wont be much push back on this comment as it is the weekend and county employees limit their dagger internet surfing and comments to working hours. Why surf the net on your own time when you can get the county taxpayers to pay you to surf.
To Jim in Hickory, you are such an ASS. If you devoted as much time to something of consequence the world would be a better place. All you do is follow the DAGGER and agitate people. If that’s all you have to do you have a sad little life. You pretend to know a lot about everything but truth is you know nothing.
The county’s reserve fund is over $75 million and the over spent money of $11 million this past year can be tied mostly to contaminated dumps in Havre de Grace, Landfill costs for waste facility in Joppa and other TIFF’s to selected developers and businesses in the county. The county employees have not benefited from the largesse of Craig’s spending.
Jim,
You are still wrong and still an ass, some things don’t change with the new year.
Maybe Jim will find them at the Wawa.
I hope all the negative commenters have spent time working inside both facilities. In my opinion, revitalizing versus demolition and new construction are dependent on the architectural plans and the time period from which they came and the school was built. What I can never understand, and it doesn’t matter at what level of government you observe, one administration says, “We have the funding for XYZ projects.” Then, a new group of politicians come along and suddenly the money is unavailable. Doesn’t anybody who seeks elected office understand basic finance and accounting? How come we allow those that use our money, supposedly for the betterment of society, whether it be local, state, or county
I’m not sure the money ever was there in the first place. It wouldn’t be the first time that an outgoing administration approved legacy projects and then expected the next administration to find the money for them. Fortunately, Mr. Glassman has recognized this for what it is and said that we can’t afford it right now,
levels, to be unwilling or unknowing participants? We actually elect these people and it doesn’t matter which political party you vote in to power. Now, I need to learn to control my comment enter button finger!
I agree with the new C.E. and his decision to defer and streamline. We got to give him a chance before we start throwing the daggers.
Maybe one thing the schools should concider is that due to declining student populations, maybe some closing of schools and consolidations should ge consieered. There could possibly be several school zones created by doing so. Fewer buildings to maintain, fewer personnel and possibly consolidating duplicating services with the county?
Many things to consider and evaluate in an effort to make govt more efficient. How about performing general building maintenance instead of just making repairs. If the employees, who get a salary to do this dont or wont, they should be replafed. How about a ban on all future residential construction until infrastructure is upgraded to be able to support it? How about government getting out of non government responsibilities, like the Arts. Shouldnt that be community based?
These sre just some thoughts but we have to realize that we dont have enough money for the government to do everything before they run out of other peoples money to spend. The fact is that we depend on government for far too manythings that never usednto be government responsibilities. We need a change in our mind set.
Why the fuck should I give him a chance? He makes this announcement late on a Friday afternoon like some chickenshit weasel who is afraid to stand up for what he believes in. And if he’s on an austerity kick then when will he close two of the three of Slate Ridge ES, Dublin ES and Darlington ES? Close Harford Vo Tech since it lost sight of its mission years and years ago? How about stopping work on Youths Benefit? Close the Harford County Liquor Board, demand that the Sheriffs Department idiotic helicopter be grounded (hell, move the entire department to Edgewood and sell off the Bel Air site) and hundreds of other line items that someone somewhere finds superfluous.
Meigs, you give everyone a lot to think about, very informative. And also all CE’S make their statements on Friday to put us in a tailspin.
Pretty sure Slate Ridge ES (and Highland ES, both of which were consolidated into North Harford ES) closed in 82 or 83, so, “Mission 1/2 Accomplished?”
I’m sure you parents and grandparents are most pleased with your lovely choice of four-letter words. How charming! Close Slate Ridge? Uh, I believe that was done about 30 years ago.
I grew up and went to school in Baltimore County.
I find it interesting that Baltimore County schools I attended in the 60’s are still standing. Elementary, junior high and high school. They look old, but from the outside are well maintained.
Why such a propensity to replace schools in Harford County? Especially with a declining student enrollment?
I think the problem is classic HCPS. The work goes to the lowest bidder. Therefore, it’s a crap build not meant to last. Think about how many government buildings in DC (or in Europe for that matter) that are still standing and in use. It’s just the mentality of the county. Instead of investing in quality we do things on the cheap.
Meigs,
The CE doesn’t have a line item veto, can’t dictate where schools or sheriff can or cant spent their funds, can’t dictate which schools to close or has any say over other state agencies such as the Sheriff’s office, State’s attorney, Courts or School system. He is the county executive for HCG not dictator of the county. And for those that think your points are valid, they are even more stupid that your are.
To everyone praising this decision, you really need to get the facts. This is an APPALLING decision that is frankly unfathomable, and guarantees I will do everything I can to ensure this man never gets a second term (and that is saying something because my family voted for him). This isn’t a matter of “it’s just old, so we need a new school.” Last week I had to send my 12 year old daughter to school when it was 6 degrees outside (with a -1 wind chill), just to find out from her later that night that while she was in math class the heat went out in about half the building. Oh, then to find out that this is already the second time just this year that she’s lost heat in her classroom. And by the way, it’s STILL not fixed. They’ve been using space heaters in their classrooms! And what about the high school? Did you know that the high school literally floods when we have a significant rainfall? And I don’t mean the streets around it get some big puddles. I mean there is literally standing water inside the building. And let’s hope you don’t sit in the wrong place in the auditorium, because several seats in there need to be roped off when it rains since the roof leaks so badly that anyone sitting there might as well be taking a shower. And how about security? I’ll bet that whatever school your kid goes to locks the doors during the school day and only let’s you in by a buzzer system. Well, you can forget about that at Havre de Grace because the classrooms are in a wholly separate building across the street from the gym, music rooms and auditorium. The building can’t be locked all day because students need to exit and enter to get from one class to the next!
So until you have to send your child to a school in sub-zero wind chills without knowing whether they will have heat today, or wonder if your child will be wading through standing water if a storm hits, then you really have some gall if you praise this decision. This is the most fundamental failing of government. If a government can’t even provide physically safe buildings that AT A MINIMUM can protect our children from the weather outside (forget about actually educating them, how about just keeping them warm?) then that government has completely failed in one of it’s most fundamental duties. There are VERY few other things that our county government will be spending money on that trump this, so I don’t buy the whole “we can’t afford it” excuse. If you can’t afford this, you cut money from somewhere else.
Go through the budget line by line. If you can’t honestly say “this is more important than keeping children warm and safe when they are in our care,” then you cut it until you have the money to protect the children that are required by law to be turned over to you. If it was your child who had to go to school in these conditions, only to see your locality get repeatedly passed over, I guarantee you that you would feel differently. So try putting yourself in someone else’s shoes. There is no excuse for this blatant turning of the back on our children. Mr. Glassman should be ashamed of himself. I already regret my vote and assure you I won’t be making that mistake again.
Almost every issue you list is a direct result of poor maintenance policy. The district needs to adopt a regular maintenance review w required testing w signature of personnel that it’s been done. Responding when water finally pours in is not maintenance, it’s lack of maintenance. I would add however amputating a leg when a toe is broken certainly takes care of the toe, but the smarter thing would have been to splint the toe.
Ken, you’re exaggerating.
Thank you Ken for clearly pointing out just what a great job HCPS facility management does in maintaining school buildings. Perhaps you should come to the Hickory WAWA any given morning and express your concerns but don’t come too early they need their coffee and samich first, say about 8:30 9 o’clock should be good.
Jimmy R. Frankly, it is people who have the willingness to brush it off by just saying “you’re exaggerating” that are the source of the problem. No, I’m not. And if you had kids in these schools you would know I am not. For example, if you had a child in the middle school, you would know I’m not exaggerating about the heat because you would have received the same three automated calls from the principal this week that I (and every other parent) received “explaining” why the heat wasn’t fixed yet. The last one even went over the procedure for keeping your kid home if you are concerned about their safety and explaining that it would be an excused absence. Does that sound like I am exaggerating? Would you care to confirm that with any one of the countless parents of middle school students? And if you honestly think I am “exaggerating” about the flooding, then you obviously have never driven around downtown Havre de Grace after a major rainstorm, when numerous roads (including Juniata by the high school) have to be closed down by the police because they are impassable due to the high water level. Again, you can confirm this with any resident of Havre de Grace.
No, these are not exaggerations. These are the conditions our students are dealing with. Turning a blind eye to it and just brushing it off as “exaggeration” without bothering to investigate is the same type of irresponsible attitude toward our children that the County Executive has shown.
And for everyone discussing the maintenance issues, I wholeheartedly agree that lack of maintenance has likely led to these issues. Unfortunately, it has now gotten so bad that it has moved beyond a maintenance issue. Had the buildings been properly maintained, maybe we wouldn’t have gotten to this point. But unfortunately here we are.
Ken, now you’re just ranting. It doesn’t further your case. It just makes you look like a complainer.
To echo another poster on here, perhaps then the Havre de Grace school should be closed and the county redistricted. If you are complaining about the flooding now, weren’t the plans for the new school to be build on a flood plain? What are they going to do, elevate and build the school on stilts? Ask people who want to rebuild along the shoreline and/or flood prone areas how much THAT costs….
That was a whole lot of drama there Ken. We’re gonna make you wear that tiera again.
What you listed are all maintenance issue. Brand new buildings have maintenance issues.
If HCPS maintenance was privatized, I think you’d see a lot more action. No incentive for county workers to be motivated.
And Jim, I’ve noticed too an inordinate amount of county workers at Wawa……after they clock in around the corner. If they worked for me I’d have my foot up their arse.
Jim,
There are approximately 2000 county workers, not HCPS workers and I don’t think you find more than 100 of them at Wawa in the morning, you are just distracting from the real issue here…. Are you saying employees at Wawa are responsible for the county’s and HCPS lack of funding for repairs and maintenance?? Are there any facts tying employees at Wawa and deficient and substandard maintenance scheduling and funding that created these issues at any of these schools that can be directly tied in to a guy driving a truck at Wawa? Are you that stupid??
Sometimes systems HCVA, plumbing, insulation and roofing just need to be replaced and patch work will only fix the issues for a short time but a major storm will render patchwork ineffective and just as costly without any permanence. To not build a new school is one thing, but to defer replacement of a critical component such as heating is irresponsible. It isn’t just on the CE and the council but on the taxpayers in the end as well. Let’s use our voice to make things better and put pressure on HCPS and HCG to fix things instead of purchasing contaminated lots in Havre de Grace??? Do you think the county’s leadership can actually put a plan together to fix things fast instead of carpeting, painting and furnishing the new CE’s office even before he became the new CE?? Where is the real outrage at their lack of prioritizing and your indignation about some employees at Wawa is just your laziness in finding fault in an employee getting a coffee, using the bathroom or buying lunch. Try majoring in major points such as those outlined because a minor event such as counting employees at wawa isn’t solving anything. There isn’t anything tying employees to the problems stated. Things get old and sometimes they just need to be replaced, that’s all.
Put as much perfume on it as you want, but the bottom line is you can’t repair a school physical plant problem, no matter how hard you try, from the parking lot of a WAWA..
Jim,
Your perfume stinks as much as you do. You can’t fix things without money, bottom line. When the CE rejects funding for a new heating system, the problem is you and his lack of priorities. Why are you so willing to condemn county employees when they have nothing to do with maintenance at HCPS? I know why, you just have a permanent hard on with county employees. As far as your notion that county employees take longer for the OT, it is pure non-sense as 98% of county workers can’t get OT because they are exempt from OT. Only during a snow storm you will see public works employees get OT, all other scheduling is during work hours for whatever shift one works.
Well darn you got me…. can’t fix things without money so lets knock the old school down and build a new one cause that doesn’t take money….
Really?
I didn’t say to build a new school just because, but you can’t fix HVAC systems without money. The system at Joppa has been deemed unfixable for the long term. It has outlived its useful life and needs to be replaced and it costs millions. Maybe they should just close it down and redistrict the students to Edgewood, Aberdeen or Fallston which ever makes more sense. To just blindly say we can’t afford it isn’t a solution or fair to the kids that shouldn’t have to learn and study in a freezing environment.
Deemed unfixable by whom? See there is the problem people make decisions which cost the taxpayers millions when they have zero skin in the game. Why fix it when they can just throw the old one out and get a new one. There was a time when that system worked just fine, what happened?
And how about the heating system at Falston high which hasn’t been stopped. $18 Million dollars for an HVAC system that services 1200 students. Do the math on what that costs per student. More proof that when it come to wasting other peoples money HCPS is the best.
Sounds like Ken needs to attend a couple School Board meetings and ask about the lack of maintenance on his schools. The School Board Members have their collective heads buried in the sand and claim they never read the Dagger.
As a county, every one of us should be embarrassed that any project moves forward before The modernization of John Archer. YBES and HdG advocates should spend a day in the shoes of these families. It’s disgraceful that we cry about these minor issues to children that have real challenges.
Reality is living in reality. As a mother of a child that went there, I agree that John Archer students should have been prioritized at the top of the list. There were plans to build a wing onto Bel Air Middle for John Archer and relocate there where they are closer to the hospital when ambulances are needed. I didnt agree with hooking the two schools together and still believe that John Archer deserves to have a modern, state of the art school in full compliance with disability requirements.