Faced with closing a $29.6 million gap in funding for next year, Harford Schools Superintendent Barbara Canavan on Wednesday recommended what she called a “miracle” operating budget for fiscal year 2015, avoiding layoffs and holding the line on class size, but reinstating pay-to-play fees for athletics and forgoing salary increases for staff, including herself. Canavan’s recommendation came at a school board meeting where teachers pleaded, often tearfully, for their scheduled salary increases, and the board considered, then rejected, a separate option to give staff a 1% raise funded through layoffs. After a lengthy and sometimes tense debate, the board delayed its vote on the budget until Monday, June 9, to allow for public input.
Missed “Steps”
Prior to Canavan’s budget presentation, more than a dozen teachers pleaded with the school board to provide scheduled “step” increases, which have gone unfunded in four out of the past five years. Often overcome by raw emotion, they told stories of financial hardships and colleagues leaving the school system for higher pay. “Why should any of us stay?” asked Andrea Sarsfield-Fischer, a seven-year teacher, who added that she stays out of love for her students, some of whom have serious struggles of their own. Tearfully, she spoke of several who credited her with “helping them take the razors from their wrists, the pills from their lips, and the guns from their foreheads.”
Teacher John Watson said he didn’t blame the school board: “You basically have been dealt a very crappy hand by the politicians, but there are ways that things can be done to make it right.” He suggested paying for salary steps by eliminating sports, extra-curricular activities, buses to events, and supervision after school. “ I’ve never seen a stadium worth a classroom and teachers, and I’m a 40-year coach, “ he said, later adding, “Take away the one item that will make parents scream … they’re going to go back to the politicians and put their asses in the hot seat.”
Canavan’s Plan
Following the public speakers, Superintendent Barbara Canavan and senior staff laid out her budget balancing recommendations.
“I am distressed, distracted and disappointed that I cannot provide what our community has implored me to provide,” Canavan said, listing salary increases, class size reductions, and increased professional development, among the requests she received.
Canavan added that she was prepared to give up the salary increase attached to her own promotion from interim superintendent to superintendent. “If I need to ask people to make the sacrifice that we were regaled with tonight, and beautifully regaled with, in all good conscience, I can’t take one penny more.” The move drew applause from the audience.
She continued, “…I refuse to finger point. We are in dire economic straits, and the only way out of this is to work together.”
Commending staff and the community for their assistance, she called her budget recommendation “nothing short of a miracle”, finishing her introduction with a final warning, “You might not like parts of it, but nobody loses a job, nobody.”
At that, Jim Jewell, assistant superintendent of business services presented a series of slides, published in full below. Among the recommendations to balance the budget are: elimination of requested salary increases for staff; reinstatement of pay-to play-fees for sports only, with waivers only for students in the federal Free and Reduced Meals program; elimination of summer school for elementary and middle school students, and implementation of a $350 tuition charge for high school summer school, with no transportation provided; increased use of the fund balance to pay for operations; and rolling back a planned addition of 76.9 positions, 70 of which were for classroom positions cut in 2012-13.
In all, Jewell said the superintendent’s recommended $426.9 million operating budget is a reduction of $484,465 from the current fiscal year 2014.
The Amendment, and the Cost of a Decent Beer
Board Member Jim Thornton commended at length Cananvan’s leadership in handling the budget, but proposed the following amendment, the text of which was provided by HCPS upon request from The Dagger:
“Allocate $2.8 million for salary consideration in the FY15 budget. A stipulation of the amendment is that any reductions required to fund the compensation increases must come from non-instructional categories. Additionally, the amendment would delay adoption of the budget until the next board meeting in order to allow citizen input.”
Thornton asked that Canavan propose action to fund his $2.8 million proposal. “I realize that the implications may suggest that positions may be lost,” Thornton said.
Board President Nancy Reynolds asked Jewell how may position cuts would be needed to fund the $2.8 million, roughly the cost of a 1% cost of living increase, which Canavan stressed would include all employees.
Reynolds’ question prompted the introduction of two relevant slides, the first one showing the additional net income for teachers resulting from a 1% COLA, which ranged between $11 and $19 biweekly, depending on years of service and education levels attained:
And this second slide showing where the school board could make 46 position cuts to pay for a 1% COLA:
Jean Mantegna, director of human resources, said later that the position cuts would result in layoffs. “It certainly will end up resulting in some reductions in force,” with staff laid off from non-classroom positions “highly unlikely to be recalled.”
Board Member Tom Fitzpatrick weighed the extra biweekly income for staff against the prospect of layoffs, and later voted against Thornton’s amendment: “So, for the cost of a decent beer, we could lay off 46 people, and I just cannot bring myself to support that.”
Canavan was emphatic that she was not recommending the 46 cuts, coming as they would on top of 240 position cuts already made since 2010. “If this occurs, we will decimate the system,” she said, “it’s as simple as that, we will not be able to provide the services that we provide now.”
The 240 position cuts, as outlined earlier in the meeting by Jewell, included 35 cuts in central office and 205 school-based.
Board Member Cassandra Beverley lamented the difficult choices, supported the delay to allow for public input, and decried the compressed timeline for the vote, which could only occur after the county budget was approved on May 27th.
Board Member Bob Frisch argued in favor Thornton’s amendment, adding that teachers he spoke to were” willing to absorb a little bit more increase in [class size] simply because that was a way for them to survive.”
Board President Nancy Reynolds was against Thornton’s amendment: “I truly believe that as the superintendent stated… if we [cut 46 positions], we will decimate the system, we will have nothing left to support these teachers.”
Board Vice President Rick Grambo said there had been a lot of public input throughout the budget process and he supported Canavan’s leadership, which he said had brought energy and purpose to the school system.
In the end, Thornton’s amendment failed, but it was followed by a motion from Board Member Art Kaff to delay the budget vote until Monday. Kaff’s motion was later approved.
Canavan’s recommended budget appears below:
Please help Harford County Elementary School Summer School.
This program is very important.
Also note, it is at a minimal cost to the county because the building is open and being used.
The only cost would be labor.
Please e-mail the following individuals and tell them to fund Elementary Summer School.
Barbara.Canavan@hcps.org
Robert.Frisch@hcps.org
Cassandra.Beverly@hcps.org
I looked at the whole proposal earlier today, and that was the one item that shocked me. Children that need extra help in reading and math, and taking away Summer assistance. I can’t believe it. Do we really need all the extra-curriculars more than this? Do we need all the sports, cheerleaders, marching bands, more than these young kids need help in learning to read? Don’t get me wrong…I don’t like seeing any kids lose anything that’s meaningful to them; but this is a vital program, the elimination of which will have a profound negative impact on these kids lives. It simply must NOT be eliminated.
It’s actually one of the oldest tricks in the political book, to select a highly charged item and threaten to cut services to the neediest, most vulnerable group of people, especially children. There is plenty of “fat” still left within the line items of the administration budget that could have been slashed. The school system is playing a political game and we should not fall for it. Shame on them for using children as pawns. It makes them look ridiculous and I really wish that every single member of the school board was elected.
What fat? Identify specifics!
Well, first, bringing in Non Harford County employed consultants to 102 South Hickory Avenue would be a start.
Let’s see what people actually do, and if their job position justifies continued duty.
You don’t want provide funding for the teachers who work with kids, but you want to hire outside consultants???
Hyuck. Yep.
The problem starts at the top. Shit flows down hill, doesn’t it?
What really needs to happen is the “RESET” button pushed, but not just for the school but for everything.
Perhaps if you had been at the board meeting Weds. night, you would know that the superintendent proposed to hire consultants to save money.
What fat? I passed a $400,000 HCPS dump truck pulling a bat wing mower attached to a farm tractor, probably another $75,000 and 2 people in the truck. That’s nothing more than a waste of tax payer money. Sub out grass cutting sell the truck and mower and fire the 2 full time grass cutters. This is just 1 rig they have lots more.
Fat is everywhere in the HCPS system but you have to look.
When I drove past the HHS last year and watched one maintenance guy drive a golf cart type John Deere cart while another sat on the back with a gas powered leaf blower clearing the grass from the edge of the parking lot I almost laughed milk out of my nose and I wasn’t even drinking milk…
Hey Watson how about they also cut your Harford Tech sports medicine program.
Along with Varsity and Junior Varsity Football teams. Unless you think of records going +10 years of 0-Fail is good.
Its just a waste of time, and more importantly, money.
What is professional development, please? It came up in the Board meeting as one of the areas that would be funded and not touched during the budget discussions.
How about cutting the $90k school system spokesperson? Why is that needed?
Why do people even bother going to these meetings? Just another day in the Kangaroo court!
Cut at the top. Many positions are worthless and some administrators need to be replaced with more effective leaders. Most teachers treated well will not bail on the system or transfer. They will ride it out. And, 90% of professional development is a joke. Most of that can go for sure. Sadly, it isn’t going to matter when they hold the next meeting. Apparently, it is what it is.
I agree. It is what it is. This is how Harford County works. They are just proving David Craig’s point by creating positions at central office (former grant funded positions) while simultaneously cutting teaching positions. All this despite the fact that research shows that the biggest impact on student achievment is the teacher in front of the students.
Mimi, how can you dare say that 90% of professional development is a joke??? That is an exaggeration! Everyone knows that the amount of professional development that is a joke is actually100%! ; )
But the biggest impact on your paycheck is getting out of the classroom and into administration. The more distance you can put between yourself and the students, the better paid you become, and the more power you wield to make sure it remains that way. Why do you think our teachers are paid way down in the bottom of the state rankings, but our administrators are in the middle, around 11th?
Great point! They could close the gap in salary. In addition, why not reduce the number of AP’s assigned to schools where the data shows that they are not necessary. We all need to do the same job with less. No exception there. Besides, some schools process merely a fraction of the referrals and have few untenured teachers who need intense observation.
Looking back, a lot of parts of this main issue are thanks to one David Craig, who as soon as he was called out on the carpet for it bailed and back pedaled and started finger pointing.
I would not take a raise if it meant someone else would lose their job.I could do without rather than see someone lose everything. God Bless Superintendent Barbara Canavan for being the first to say she will not accept a raise. I hope everyone follows her lead. It looks to me like Thornton is turning one against another.
I disagree. Thornton is correct. Same deal next year and the next and the next………. Sometimes you just have to make the tough choice and pull out of the death spiral.
I agree with Amos, every year they use the same scare tactics. If you want a COLA, we will cut your health benefits or cut positions. Every year teachers cave and fall in line. Enough is enough!
I also support Thornton’s amendment. This madness must stop!
@ Otis
You have been drinking the kool-aid way too long. While you are at it just offer to take a pay cut. Then, HCPS can hire back all those positions that have been cut since Craig has been in office.
isn’t Canavan making like 1/5 of a million a year? More? If I was making that much I could “sacrifice” my raise too…
I would hope that the Board would pass budget recommendation made by Superintendent Barbara Canavan without any amendments and think of the 50 some people and families that would have great hardship under the amendment made by Mr. Thornton. People that could lose their only income and homes if Mr. Thornton amendment is passed.
I hope the board thinks with your hearts and not about the next election. I don’t feel that Mr. Thornton amendment is to help the teachers of HCPS get a 1% raise that would really mean very little in their paychecks, but more about getting re-elected to the board for another term. Please think of the best for HCPS and the employees that work there. Not the game of elections.
“Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”.
Albert Einstein
Any money into my paycheck is better than nothing. All sports should be eliminated. You can’t pay your bills you don’t have extra curricular activities. The employees in this system have been treated very poorly. The argument of just be thankful you have a job dies out after 4 years of hearing it. And what is most shocking is that the Superintendent thinks that Barry Glassman is going to come on put on his cape and save they day by giving the school system money. It just isnt going to happen. Not when the county employees and sheriffs have also received no raises. Just nonsense.
If you eliminate sports, you must also eliminate drama productions, marching band, academic teams, DI, National Honor Society, and many more extra curricular activities. You can’t cherry pick sports. One goes, they all go.
No, you can cherry pick sports.
They need to freaking cut the $91,000 number cruncher…seriously, he’s never crunched my numbers.
And can someone please tell me why we need a teacher induction coordinator when we have no money to hire new teachers…seriously, WTF! Am I the only smart and reasonable person in this effing county?!?!
Yours truly,
ScrewHCPSupthebutt.
They do hire new teachers. They have to hire them to replace the ones that leave through retirement or attrition.They just don’t have the money to add teaching positions to the number they already have. If you were smart and reasonable you would have been able to figure that out before spouting off.
Whether or not we need a teacher induction coordinator is another story. I don’t know what this position entails or what kind of work it involves. So until I do, I won’t express an opinion either way.
Why are people so angry at the school system. Listen, they are not perfect. They educate our kids and public school is a necessity.
They are angry because they have to pay for it, and they feel that they can get it for much less than they are already paying. They certainly don’t want to pay more for the same thing. Think about it…have HCPS teachers ever received a salary increase without members of the general public not going balistic over it? If the public had their way, they’d still be paying teachers what they were paying them back in the 70’s, and they’d still be complaining that they are paying too much. They truly believe that you can underpay, underfund, underappreciate teachers and still get great results…by FORCE and threat of removal from your job. Everyone else in the world is motivated by a carrot, but they think they can motivate teachers with a stick.
I had someone that said if you don’t want to pay for schools. You better pay for prisons.
How did we become like this? Education is so important. I refuse to let my child be under educated. Look for me as I run for school board next time.
Washington DC spends the highest per pupil costs in the nation. Needless to say, they also have one of the highest prison costs per population. Some of the lowest costs per pupil are spent in communities that have large Asian populations and they produce some of the best scholars.
I would agree that there is a point that spending begins to effect the learning process, however for the most part learning occurs with a student who wants to learn and a teacher capable of imparting the knowledge and facilitating the learning process.
The Public School system is in peril, in all things peril could be a category for.
Sure enough, people waste their time, to hear basically the same exact shit the year before, and the year before, and the year before. This is Maryland we’re talking about here, folks. Every HCPS employee could show up at the meeting and say “Don’t do it!” and they’d still “Do it,” as “It” is defined as whatever the hell you want “it” to be. No one wants to be the one that finally flushes the toilet and see what everyone’s reaction is when the poopie flushes somewhere, in the mean time, we’ll just keep filling up the toilet bowl.
Sorry, but Public Education has now caught up with the rest of the dysfunction, and SNAFU. Lots of employee’s just “in it” for their 20, 25 years – Catch a retirement, earn benefits, then start another career. What else is there at this point?
A “cost of a good beer” as suggested by board member Mr. Fitzpatrick would equal 3 gallons of milk or 2 loaves of allergen free bread or 2 prescription refills or the cost of the increase in medical benefits for fy 2015. Please do not insult the hard working, well educated employees of HCPS. We definitely would put any increase in our salaries toward meeting the basic needs of our familes.
This banter is shameful.
I thought he made a good point. You apparently have no problem if someone else loses their job so you can a little bit more.
You apparently don’t realize that the cost of groceries, gas, the cost of living in this county has gone up. My grocery bill has gone up $25 per week for a family of four. I can’t imagine that teachers grocery bills have stayed the same for however long it has been since they have had any increases! I know at our school of 7 teacher who are leaving! How sad for our children!
The point is that in order to get you those 3 loaves of bread, about 50 people, including myself, will no longer be employed. So while you’re getting a few loaves of bread, 50 people are scrambling to figure out how to pay their bills at all.
Class sizes will once again go up, to almost 30 in my school with no way to bring them down any time soon.
I’m not arguing that the COLA is not needed, it definitely is, but we need to find a way to fund it without cutting jobs. In my opinion, cutting jobs hurts the kids even more than the people whose jobs are cut and last time I checked, we were in this profession for the kids.
Explain? None of the positions proposed are direct instructional.
I apologize, I could not make the meeting and the slides would not load. At my school we were told that 10 of the positions were instructional.
That mistake aside, I could not justify that extra money in my paycheck if someone is losing their job for me to get it. No thanks, I don’t want it.
To fund salary increases for teachers no teachers need to lose their jobs. Central office can just eliminate the positions left by teachers that leave the system each year and cut programming. Obviously this reduces services for students and makes class sizes larger, but without increased revenue, that is the only way teachers will ever see an increase in salary. Since that will not happen next year for the 5th out of 6 years, it will never happen. Any teacher that has posted here with any hope of ever again getting an increase in their salary is kidding themselves. HCPS wants to do away with the salary scale all together and move to a performanc-based system linked to evaluations. Good luck with that, especially at schools where there is little parent or community support.
When more than 90% of HCEA members ratify a contract that stipulates HCPS only has to give teachers a salary increase if the county government fully funds the requested budget, it’s no wonder teachers aren’t getting an increase in pay. What does it take for teachers to realize that until they stop depending on the county government, the superintendent and the school board to make difficult decisions on their behalf and instead start making difficult decisions for themselves that their salaries will improve. This means teachers that are unhappy with their compensation shouldn’t ratify any contract until HCPS agrees to give teachers a salary increase regardless of the budget they are provided. This message needs to be heard by the HCEA so during negotiations, if that proposal is not negotiated, then negotiations should not proceed any further. Teachers also need to start looking elsewhere for employment. Those that can’t leave HCPS need to stop providing any extra services outside of their teacher duties. Yeah, like any of that is ever going to happen. Like it says, teachers have themselves to blame.
Mr. Fitspatrick is a clown. Cut the 50 jobs. We will hear the same argument every year. Well no pay increases but hey we saved peoples jobs. There is not a shortage of teaching positions in Maryland. Those teachers need only to apply in Baltimore or Cecil County. The would be hired no problem. Do not expect to ever get money if you are complacent with saving a couple of positions.
I can’t wait until taxes go up in this county. They have to. We need to pay for education. For those that don’t agree with it, you can leave. We need like minded people who are willing to pay taxes to educate our children. Chances are if you don’t support higher property taxes for education, your not well educated and don’t contribute a great deal of revenue anyway. Its time that like minded people demand and mandate higher property taxes for education. PERIOD.
It appears you’re not well educated, either.
Why would residents, “self own” themselves into paying higher taxes when the current tax base with the current scholastic performance is good?
Or was there a massive number of students this year who did not graduate?
If you would have attended the BOE meeting we’d you would know that $300 per household is needed to bring additional programs so cuts do not have to go through. Again, raise our property taxes, fund education and give our teachers raises. If people sbir like it, leave.
Bill, You keep telling people to leave the county, why don’t you? I mean, if you don’t like the way HC is being run, you are free to leave also and go to one of those “well run” counties.
Yeah, that’s right. Scholastic performance is good, so why raise the taxes to pay teachers more for what you’re already getting. And when performance isn’t good, don’t raise the taxes to pay teachers more because they don’t deserve it until performance improves. Beautiful. Have you ever read “Catch 22”?
Raising taxes has nothing to do with how well students perform.
It has to do with services.
I am confident that we have enough like minded people in Harford County who will pay higher property taxes to ensure our schools are fully funded and teachers are paid what they deserve.
It is time to end this madness.
Those that do not want their property taxes to increase, put your house up for sale and start looking. This WILL be a mandate. I know there are people that believe in higher property taxes for better education.
Bill,
All your “Friends of” know you have fallen off your 12 step program.
You had me worrying that I was not well educated until you used “your” instead of “you’re” when contracting “you” and “are”… phew, I feel better.
Sarsfield-Fischer spoke of several (students) who credited her with “helping them take the razors from their wrists, the pills from their lips, and the guns from their foreheads.”
Teacher John Watson said,“Take away the one item that will make parents scream … they’re going to go back to the politicians and put their asses in the hot seat.”
“A lot of fancier yarns come from people trying to tell the truth. It’s not easy once you’re out of the habit.” – Hammett.
Folks will say anything and do anything when they are in the hooray-for-me and hell-with-thee mode. Go ahead and stick it to the parents and/or the students just because you want a raise. Hasten the flight out of the county – it’s happening and more is planned. If you can’t appreciate what you have, you will get even less later – and like it.
Yep. So what if you’ve talked teenagers out of killing themselves? And who cares if we pull summer school from little kids struggling to read, as long as they don’t have to fork out 25 bucks to play ball? How dare these self-serving jerks lobby to try to help children. Next thing you know, we’ll have doctors who expect payment just for fixing a kid’s broken arm. Where does the madness end?
That’s Wrong,
At a public forum, one of your ilk boasts about being a minimum wage, Mother Teresa, saving lives and souls in some barrio. Then, while we are still sobbing from that story, someone else stands up and suggests you should deliver pain to get what you want.
So, what is it? Manson or Mother T? Maybe you should get your story straight – or, maybe you should publish your total compensation package to the public before delivering pain – or, maybe you should publish all the non-teaching staff and what they make. Perhaps you should cut some butt like they do in the taxpayer world.
Fact is, the state has been raising taxes and feathering its nest for years. You all just didn’t get your feather and you are furious about it. Stop trying to sell what you think people think you do. Parents already know what you haven’t been doing since those same children are still living with them at thirty.
One of whose ilk? I’m not a teacher, nor are any of my family members.
Well, maybe if we don’t create a situation where teachers have to go to public meetings year after year and explain what it is they do and why they should are deserving of a one percent pay raise or a step increase once every five years, well maybe they wouldn’t. Do you really think these people WANT to have to do this?
Your attitude…it’s like beating a main with a stick, bitching at him because he’s bleeding, and calling him a woos when he begs you to stop.
And by the way…after all the cuts over the past five years, plus the lack of pay increases, not to mention the abuse they take, your statement about “cut some but like they do in the taxpayer world is no longer valid. You can’t cut resources and freeze salaries year after year, then claim teachers don’t know what it’s like to have their resources cut and their salaries frozen like people like the taxpayers do. And by the way, I didn’t realize that people in the teaching profession were exempt from paying taxes.
BTW…my nephew graduated from an HCPS high school last year. Kids in his graduating class received in excess of 3.5 million dollars in scholarship money. There were kids going to ivy league schools, top private schools, outstanding universities, military academies. Every kid who spoke thanked the teachers they had from elementary school on up. It’s a shame that there are people like yourself who are still living with their parents at age 30, and what makes it more pathetic is that they are still blaming the teachers they had years ago rather than accepting responsibility for there own decisions that put them where they are today. As I see it, if X number of students can be as successful as so many of the students are, the services and opportunities to excel are being presented to the students by their teachers.
You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink. But there will always by people like you who will blame the cowboy for that.
Wrong,
You can post all the anecdotal information you want. It doesn’t make it accurate.
But just to address a few points:
First of all, If you work for the government you do not contribute to the taxable wealth. It would be like trying to make more deck chairs on the Titanic by breaking off pieces of each chair to construct a new one. In the end, it is still the same number of chairs. If you work for the government you drain wealth – any taxes paid are actually a paper exercise. If you knew anything about economics, you would know that.
Also, about 80% of college students get financial assistance. More are getting it now than ever before because people are poorer. Their parents are the same folks you want to tax more to pay government employees more.
And, most of the resources you say are being cut are actually reduced increases the BOE has wanted. The salary issue you complain about is not uncommon in the private sector – which is reducing payroll, cutting hours and canceling medical insurance. Harford County salaries (according to the BLS) are down 2.9% from last year. Nobody is asking Teachers to cut their salaries.
Finally, the number of those young folks moving back home is at record highs – never said I was one of them.
You can quote all the anecdotal evidence you want, it doesn’t make it accurate.
Whether or not government workers contribute to taxable wealth does not eliminate the fact that have taxes taken out of their earnings, have to pay property taxes, or are exempt from taxes paid by any other citizen. If you UNDERSTOOD anything about economics, you would know that. And if you knew what my educational and professional background was, you’d understand what an ass you just made of yourself. But that’s nothing new…
The scholarships values I referred to were academic merit based, not financial aid.
Reduced budget increase requests become resource cuts when purchasing power is decreased by inflation and increased legal requirements to implement services and programs. If a federal mandate costs $100 000 to implement and the funding request is denied, resources have to be cut to fund the mandate.
Do those 2.9% decreases apply to every working person in Harford County? I know quite a few people who have not seen any decrease in salary and benefits, and others who have seen increases. The suggestion that teachers should never get a raise as long as someone, somewhere also didn’t get a raise is a demonstration of the contempt you hold for teachers and your attempt to use any argument, regardless of how irrational, to provide them even the most meager pay increase.
On one hand, you claim students arr getting financial aid because they are poorer. On the other hand, when they can’t afford to live on their own, it’s because public school teachers made it an impossibility. It seems to me that if students are getting aid because they can’t afford college, then they probably can’t afford to live on their own either.
Bunchey has made the same ridiculous argument that govt employees don’t contribute to the economic wealth before. He has quite a warped understanding of economic output, cost of goods or the benefits from having a government. it is not all a zero sum game. Yes taxes take readily available funds from the consumer, but unless you have a fee for service payment for the cost of education, infrastructure and government services then you can’t really claim that taxes paid don’t produce a good. Bunchey probably lives back in the woods somewhere and lives a sustenance life where he is fully independent and detached from the public world. However someone has to keep the criminals of the street, provide courts, water, sewer, zoning and all those other services that invariably will allow him to make money and produce wealth. Eventually, even a detached person from society may need someone with a basic education, skills or vocation to provide those services that he doesn’t know such as medical, produce, housing and guess what those people took advantage of mostly a free education to learn those skills.
Burbey Bunch,
You are entertaining in a most surreal way. Since every court needs a jester, I guess you serve a purpose on this board.
“The Doctrine of Sacrifice makes you the servant and others your masters –and adds insult to injury by saying you should find happiness through sacrifice.”
sp,
“Kicks just keep getting harder to find.” Paul Revere & the Raiders
Grandstanding – I will not take a salary increase next year – Superintendent – she makes over $190K. No tears for her. Please stop crying Alysonn Kerchnavy. Now if she would take a cut. Professional Development – what is it and why waste money on it – give it to teachers salary and let them develop themselves. Cut the fat cats out of county government at all levels and all departments – how many specialists, chief of staffs, etc, etc, are there and at what cost. I’m sure Billy is not going to be working for free as Barry’s chief. Why can’t barry be his own chief? Please.
Salaries of some in county government are excessive. Positions, especially advisory, chief of staff , etc etc type positions should be judiciously cut in all departments of county government including the HCPS and BOE. The superintendent makes a lot of money so a pay freeze for her is symbolic and just plain grandstanding. Thornton’s ammendment – just playing to the crowd pandering for votes in a lack luster attempt at council president. Cut professional development and give that money in salary to the teachers – they can invest in themselves as they see fit.
If every person got a check from the state, who would pay taxes? If everyone didn’t work for the state, who would provide public services? The cost of government is needed however it can’t choke the very taxpayer funding it.
Wrong,
I love it when folks come into a forum and brag in a vacuum. What a completely moronic statement to say, “…if you knew what my educational and professional background was, you’d understand what an ass you just made of yourself.” You go on to say, “…taxable wealth does not eliminate the fact that (they) have taxes taken out of their earnings.”
Do you understand anything about wealth creation? Anything at all? Only real wealth can be taxed to actually pay for anything, otherwise the government just keeps printing more money.
Your logic, taken to its conclusion, means that everyone can work for the government and tax each other to pay their salaries. Actual wealth is only created in the private sector and the government takes a portion of it. Otherwise, as I posted before, the government taxing itself is a paper exercise. Eventually, you will need a wheelbarrow of money to buy a loaf of bread.
Are you a refugee from a banana republic?
And, for such a self proclaimed economic genius how can you not understand a BLS report and its implications? It’s nice to know that you personally know some folks that got a raise. So, you want to tax everyone more because you use the ‘I know a lawyer friend downtown’ argument.
Finally, you are using government hack logic on funding. Only in government is an increase not an increase when whitewashed in bureaucratic syntax. And you think other folks are an ass for not swallowing that crap? When a federal grant runs out it is not a cut to keep funding the program – you are looting an increase from the taxpayers to continue to fund it – and inflation also doesn’t give you a bye either. More is more, meaning it’s an increase (unless it’s common core math, I guess). Personally, I think it’s just sneaky, government chicken shit at its best.
Burbey Bunch,
Remember it’s Ayn Rand not I Rant. Your starting to make “producers” look bad.
Cheap,
If you can’t argue the facts, try to change the subject. Rightie was ‘wrongie’ and ranting – not the Burbey.
And by the way, Burbey Bunchie loves ‘The Producers’ – the original movie with Zero Mostel and Gene Wilder, that is. Did you know it was originally a movie about a play – then it was a play made back into a movie, not nearly as good.
WEALTH– A relative term to denote material possession in the form of money, stability, personal assets or the value of things. One can argue that wealth can be destructive or constructive. It all depends how you define it. For one it can mean having money in the bank, for others it may mean having good health. It doesn’t really matter, as it is what ever value one deems it proper. To this writer, the fact is that your concept of wealth is always relative to something else. Your ability to earn money is dependent on a lot of factors such as having a marketplace to ply your skills. A really talented horse shoe maker can only make so much money in a place with no horses. If you do have a skill that pays you well, you need a marketplace where you can sell your wares. Taxes tend to be higher in wealthier states such as the Northeast, Mid-Atlantic and West Coast. You make more because there is an infrastructure to move goods (roads, trains, and airports) There is a consumer base to buy your goods and this base has money to spend on your horse shoes because they own horses! The marketplace is self-correcting for the most part as there is a limit to how much you can make. It is in your self-interest to not pay any taxes as long as the roads are repaired, criminals aren’t allowed to steal your horseshoes and you can have control over society all that as long as someone else pays for these services and goods provided by government. Really smart people work hard to pay less taxes but make no mistake that if that was their sole purpose they would make less money if there wasn’t cumulative wealth from those around to buy your horse shoes! If you think of having a 50 acre plot of land– it wouldn’t be worth as much in a Norrisville as it is worth between Tollgate and Rte 924 and that’s why Walmart– the ultimate seeker of people’s money– values that lot more because it is near paid infrastructure with people ready to buy their horse shoes. So, in the end your wealth is tied to everyone else. Burbey bunch is just a bunch of poop. And sir, please change your handle as the Burbey name is already taken. Sir, you are a complete idiot.
Frankly,
What a rambling you-didn’t-build-that mess. I guess you got a thumbs up from a teacher who never instructed you on topic sentences and general paragraph structure. Don’t worry, when you get to college they have a remedial course you can take.
I guess the entire concept of wealth creation and government taxation – as it applies to budgets and deficit spending – is rather elusive to you. Don’t worry about that either. There are some harsh lessons on the horizon.
The classic sign a weak position – resorting to personal attacks.
dis,
Unless you posted to the wrong person, please note that ‘Frankly’ called me “a complete idiot” in his last sentence. That is a personal attack. I, on the other hand, merely suggested that he needed some remedial work and that certain ideas regarding taxation remain illusive to him.
In fact, I took it easy on the fellow. I could have pointed out to him that it is insane to suggest that for reasons of infrastructure Walmart was building a store 10 minutes down the road from an existing store.
In the end, his collectivist ramble was nonsensical – as I pointed out. He used direct passages from ‘The Common Core Manifesto on Economics’ – in specific, the commentaries of Buttblather, Scallywag and flapdoodle.
I agree with Mr. Watson’s statement about eliminating extracurricular activities. The only way you’re going to arouse anyone to action is if you inconvenience them. Larger class sizes? Eliminating classroom teacher positions? Big whoop. The parents could care less. However, no more athletics and after school activities? How quickly do you think the parents would show up with pitchforks and torches? The superintendent and the board should take that into consideration. If I were them, I would make a statement about how we had no choice but to do this and that drastic times call for drastic measures. If given the options of making our employees go another year without a step increase or give the increase but eliminate positions that could directly impact the classroom, we will cut funding elsewhere so our employees can have a decent living. It is election year and if the politicians are in fear for their jobs, they will magically find that funding. Turn the pressure on David Craig the County Council.
Cutting extra curricular activities? Are we serious? We have had extra curricular activities for decades without any problem. I learned leadership and team building skills with my days as running back at Edgewood High.
The problem now is twofold.
We have TOO much technology in the schools. Whiteboards, calculators, touch screen things. I did just FINE in the 50s with my pencil and paper. I was able to retire by 60. Lets get RID of the technology and make kids learn the hard way. Write that equation out with a pencil.
Second. I support he budget amendment. Lets give these poor teachers a raise and cut the fat at the same time. You have no idea how many HCPS folks I see just lollygagging around in WAWA. Do they even work? I’m not sure anymore to be honest.
These are minor cuts, and would get much needed cash back into the hands of our educators. Lets cut the fat where we need to – the CENTRAL OFFICE.
-Jim
Jim,
Your idea is sound, but we need to get better results from the teachers as well.
Also ask yourself who would really get the wrath if parents found out their child was victimized so that teachers could get a small raise.
Better results from teachers? You get far better now than you pay for. Although I understand with an exodus of 200+ teachers things might change!
Cdev,
“You get far better now than you pay for.”
That being the case, with 70% remedial rate in local colleges, we are really paying for 100% failure rate. Wow! I never thought of that. Does give one pause to think.
So, if we double the compensation packages up to $150k (based on the current median package) then we might bring the remedial rate down to 30%, at best. Gee! That still doesn’t look good. I don’t think anybody would go for ivy league professor money to accomplish that – granted we are talking package versus salary, but good grief! We would have to go to compensation around $200k to really get the job done.
I hate to say this – because paying for success is my favorite thing – but I think I will go for the turnover. With 200 leaving in a total of about 3,000 (the number I think), I believe we can endure. That is, until we change the entire system.
Somehow, we need to change how we spend our money as well as how we get the job done in the classroom. I believe in teacher autonomy. Hire them and allow them to tell us what they need. Allow for the maximum creativity. Pay them well for the results. I think we have forgotten about individual genius.
Sorry to say, but the system needs changing first.
First off HCC is not a representative sample of the entire system, secondly you are assuming a linear relationship exists!
But if you do pay that high I think you would get tons of experienced applicants and could be highly selective.
After all that is how the free market works!
And there it is! Hickory Jim strikes again! Flushing out those WAWA shoppers like a bird dog flushing ducks out of the brush! Chase ’em, Hickory Jim, chase ’em! You know, I’m actually starting to get the idea that you might actually be EMPLOYED by Wawa…hmmm….how else would someone have so much information regarding who is shopping, when they are shopping, and what they are shopping for? Come on, Jim…own up! You’re a WaWa Customer Hospitality Representative, aren’t you??? Well, that’s cool, Jim…don’t be afraid to share your profession here with your Dagger Press family! We’re here because we CARE, Jim. That’s why we encourage you to keep tabs on county employees buying coffee at Wawa, because we all see what meaning it brings to your life. We can tell the joy you feel in the words you type when you catch a maintenance worker buying a Columbian with French vanilla and a Splenda, how ecstatic you feel when you notice he has a 20 ounce Wawa mug because he shops there so frequently and is trying to save a few cents on his daily coffee habit (would that other county employees be so frugal!). Hickory Jim, we salute you, and hold your actions as something that all men of the county should aspire to. Some day, there will be a statue of you at the intersection right in front of the Wawa, clipboard in hand, and leaning against the hood of your Mercury Grand Marquis. Until then…we have the real deal. We have you, Hickory Jim! And we are all better for it.
That is funny!!
Seems I hit a nerve.
Every day I come on the dagger for a good laugh. You just never know what nonsense Burbey Bunch will come up with. I often wonder is this David Craig in disguise or maybe Dick Slutskie? Heck it may even be Mr. Fitzpatrick having a nice craft beer and enjoying the Dagger blog. Burbey Bunch who are you and what is your intention other than pissing off a bunch of teachers. Trust me the BOE and the County Counsel are doing a fine job of this all by themselves. They don’t need your help. The only benefit I see is your ability to make me laugh.
There must be something wrong. Burbey Bunch did not point out that I spelled “Council” wrong. I hope everything is ok.
Harford County Board of Education has proposed to build new combined Havre de Grace High/Middle School. The justification being that it is not safe for the children to cross Juniata Street to reach the athletic fields on the west side. The proposed school site is behind the current Havre de Grace Middle School west of the Harris Stadium site where the current athletic fields are located. Once the new school is built they will need to replace the lost fields, so the plan is to tear down Havre de Grace High School and the Auditorium/Gym buildings and build the fields where the buildings are located. It is safer to cross west to east, but not east to west. Go figure. Other issues sited include mold and leaking roofs. Who is charge on maintenance.
The proposed new school site sits between the current middle school, the Northeast Corridor high speed rail line and a flood plain. Add to this the plan to demolish the High School and the Auditorium/Gym buildings and the current middle school building. Who does this? How many taxpayers tear down their old usable house and build a new one on the same site?
I sent a suggestion to the Harford County Board of Education after I found out about the SCOPE Study they had done that didn’t include the school board property located on Chapel Road. Unfortunately they never responded. My concern with the new proposed school and the location are as follows. Harford County Schools purchased 54 acres of land on Chapel Road just outside the city limits of Havre de Grace, but closer to the center of the convoluted school district. The current proposed site is about 30 acres.
I suggested that the Board consider building the new combined Havre de Grace High/Middle School on the Chapel Road Property. Currently most of the students that attend Havre de Grace High are bussed or they drive their own cars. Every parent will tell you it’s much safer to bus their students than allow them to walk. Building the new school on this site will free up the two current High School buildings and the building could be turned over to Harford County Park and Recreation and the Harford County Government to bring programs that have been taken out of Havre de Grace back to the city. The school building could be repurposed as a new library and classroom for distant learning programs. The old Middle School building could be remodeled and additional classrooms and swimming pool added. This building could then be used as a new Havre de Grace elementary school, allowing the closure and combination of both elementary schools. This plan would do away with four separate elementary school buildings and consolidate the physical plants into one.
Instructional Facilitators? What do they do? Why do they make principal pay? Why are they still around? Why do all classrooms have smart boards and only a small percwent of teachers are trained enough to use them effectively? Why doesn’t professional develpment address such issues instead of looking like something made up an hour before the traiining? Why do schools have turf field when hcps can’t afford to honor contracts? Why is central office the most secure builing in the school system? Why do administrators that get put back in the classroom get an adjustment year in which they get to keep the inflated salary? etc. etc. etc.
I know… a bit childish, but HCPS wastes a lot of money.
Tonight, the school board approved Canavan’s recommended budget with no changes.
No salary increases for staff, no layoffs, no increase in class size, pay-to-play fees of $50 per sport with waivers for students receiving federal Free and Reduced Meals. Please see full details above.
For the teachers that really want this 1% raise to take effect. I would like you to say, ” I am willing to risk my job and possibly be one of the 46 that need to be cut; and if I am cut, I will not complain about it.”
You didn’t read about them being non -instructional positions did you?
No, they didn’t read about that. Why read when you can spout baseless opinions? Geez.
How ’bout this: “I don’t mind 46 others losing their jobs to get me my 1% raise.”
So when your first argument fails you move the goal post back. Well I think we can give teacher raises without cutting jobs. Simply charge fees for all the extras that make them revenue neutral. Higher pay to play fee. Charge transportation fees for kids who are not required to have it to meet FAPE. Charge course fees for electives which cost more.
Sounds fine to me as I don’t have any children in the school system. I’m just waiting to see what happens when they raise the property tax rates to fund this stuff. It ultimately is coming. But hey–it’s all for the children, police, fire dept and parks…..
Taxes being raised isn’t inevitable. Government services could be cut, concentrating what remains to the areas where most of the population is, allowing for greater efficiencies in the system. I’m not advocating this position, but there are many who do.
I’m not understanding how class sizes can be “held” as part of an agreement, at least at the high school level. Although I understand that the number of teachers impacts class sizes, they are ultimately up to more direct factors such as enrollment, Principal discretion (wether or not to keep a class), etc.
Watching HarCo spiral down,
First of all, a contract is a legally binding agreement between parties. If there were a contract that had a binding set salary scale the teacher’s union would have been in court and recovered the money – make no mistake. Whatever the teacher’s sign, it doesn’t even bind them to teach a full year with any serious consequences, according to what happened to your friend. If anybody walked off in the middle of committed work that company would tell him not to show his face back there again.
As to the rest of what you say, well, everybody knows somebody that did such and such and heard someone say this or that.
Posters keep saying teachers were promised raises when they signed the dotted lines for their employment?
Just who in the butt pirate actually promised, as in vocally said the words out of their mouth? Who? WHO? WHICH PERSON SAID THAT?
And to think, people actually believed this? I’m so glad you are promising me this, I won’t even bother understanding the language of the contract.
Where does it say you will get a raise no matter what?
HR my wife heard it from the director of HR at the time!
WHO? HR PEOPLE HAVE NAMES RIGHT?
Cdev,
Apologies to Marvin Gaye…
Ooh, I bet you’re wondering how I knew
About your plans to make me blue
Holding back my pay steps that way
It took me by surprise I must say
When I found out yesterday
Don’t you know that…
I heard it through the HR
Then went straight to the local bar.
Money, money yeah!
And you are just the man to come in and change it! Go get your degree in education and your teaching certificate, then you can get a job (after all, plenty of openings with everyone leaving), and you can help make the change that you so desperately want to see! You’ll have a nice cushy job with a great salary and killer benefits, and we’ll get a teacher who will be willing to deny himself salary increases when every one of hist students aren’t as successful as the general public wants to see.
What are you waiting for? The gravy train just arrived in the station and is waiting for people like you to board!
U the man,
Hey! New meat!
“..everyone leaving..” I hope when the last of the thousands go they turn out the lights.
“…as successful as the general public wants to see.” And here I thought it was their job.
This might go by you like an inside fastball but did you every wonder why there isn’t a greater ‘sturm und drang’ for your cause? I mean, what I am reading in this forum is that teachers think the public hates them, or is stupid, or cheap, or would only react if they punish the students enough.
I honestly only remember reading one post from a self declared teacher that appeared appreciative of having a job in these trying times. Everyone else came across as embittered and would victimize the students if they thought it would get them more money.
You’re absolutely right! It IS their job! And you know they aren’t cutting it. And you’re angry. You’re ANGRY because you care about those poor children who are being shortchanged by a system that hires these inept, selfish, money-grubbing people who masquerade as teachers, who LIVE for the days when they don’t have to teach ( can you say SUMMER?).
And that’s why we should all be grateful for you. When you get into that classroom, you and others like you, that will be the revolution. Having teachers like you who work hard, have the passion for education like you’ve exhibited here, have the caring and concern for children, who will refuse taxpayer funded salary increases when just ONE of your kids aren’t showing superior performance, YOU ARE the revolution that you speak so passionately about!
I hope you will enroll in a teacher education program as soon as this summer. I have no doubt that you can be part of all the changes you believe are needed, and that you will absolutely not be anything like the more than 2700 lazy, greedy, incompetent “teachers” currently draining our schools.
U the man,
Angry? Never me. That is why I use humor in most of my posts.
But you, use the playground chump response, which is the old over the top show-me-how-you-can-do-better chumpity, chump, chump. Oh, and it’s followed by make-one-mistake-and-you-take-no-money chumpity, chump, chump.
Must be a hit at parent/teacher conferences when the parent makes a critical comment to the teacher. I guess the teacher jumps up out of their chair and screams at the parent to show him how he could do better. So infantile and so playground chumpish.
Burbey, what are you talking about??? I’m being completely sincere about this! You can’t deny how passionate you are about this cause. Look back at all the posts you’ve made on this and other school topic threads! I admire that kind of passion.
And I understand your thinking I’m being facetious. I’ve read all the hostility your concerns are met with, so it’s no wonder you don’t expect anyone to be on your side. But I assure you…I’m right there with you, pal!
BTW…I’m not a teacher! I’m not sure why you thought that, but hey, no worries; I’d say that’s the only thing you got wrong in all your posts so far!
Now, back to business…Towson U has a great teacher education program. For someone as intelligent as you, I’d recommend physics. Or maybe chemistry. Or maybe a double major with one hard science plus mathematics. That way, you’ll be teaching the most challenging subjects, and the ones they have the most difficult time finding people to teach not because math and science people can make shitloads more money in the private sector, but because teachers aren’t smart enough to teach those subjects. Also, let’s make sure we get you into the poorest school in the county. Again, that’s why we need people like you who are smart enough to teach the hard subjects, reasonable enough appreciate the lucrative teacher salary, and caring enough to teach children in the most challenging demographics.
Of course, we’ll have to be patient because it’s a 4 year program. Will only cost you about eighty thousand bucks to do the program, but you’ll be able to pay that back once you start teaching. Figure you’ll make the starting teacher’s salary only for the first six or seven years, then you might get an 1800 raise. The debt will just seem to melt away after about 15 years or so.
I’m excited to meet someone as passionate and concerned about children and education! You are going to make an outstanding teacher!
U the man,
It was a cute angle when you started it, but now it’s so long and full of slobber that I wonder if your fellow government lickspittles can endure reading it.
No, no, no. You don’t get it! That’s funny. Look, I’ve been giving you the thumbs up all along! Why don’t you believe that someone recognizes your genius? I’m telling you…I’m not putting you on. You speak my mind, dude!
Passion. Raw passion. For education. Someone who can see the system for what it is and has the courage to speak out. That’s you, Burbey Bunch! I can only imagine what that kind of passion is going to look like in the classroom. A high school classroom. A high school calculus classroom. Route 40 corridor. Can you imagine the difference you’ll make in those kids lives, all while fighting against your own salary increases? Sure..maybe your work is stellar, but the guy next classroom over? Nope. And so teachers don’t get that raise, and you are glad for it because you know that all students can excel when they have excellent teachers; and most teachers (unlike yourself) will only excel with incentive, like threats of no raises, or being fired…
So what do you think? Let’s work together on this. Let’s get you in that program at Towson. Don’t worry about the cost. You’ll get a scholarship. Not an academic one, because like you claimed, HCPS graduates don’t earn those kind, just financial scholarships, because they’re poor. So you’ll probably get something. Also, those remedial courses…I heat they’re a breeze. I mean, since you’re an HCPS grad and most HCPS grads need to take them, odds are that you’re among them. And besides, if you felt you received a top notch education, you probably wouldn’t be so passionate about these lousy teachers!
Summer classes are starting up soon. I think there is still time for you to get enrolled. Let’s do this!
U,
Too bad you weren’t pulling this when the subject started, but the decisions have been made and the forum has moved on. If something else comes up that draws my interest, and you want to run these long filibusters, I will deal with you – it ain’t like I haven’t seen your style many time over. Otherwise, just change your name and do the long, worthless, winded crap with yourself.
Well Burbs, I understand. It’s behavioral conditioning. So many thumbs down, so many comments hidden, I understand that you don’t understand someone really being on your side. Hard for you to believe. But that’s ok. Trust me. I’m on your side. I’ve given you thumbs up all along.
My…style? I’m not sure what you mean. My only style is sincerity, Burbs. And I’m not sure the forum has moved on? Well I don’t know…you’re still here, I’m still here, a few others are still here.
But I have to say, I’m a bit disappointed in you. I mean, sure, you think I’m putting you on…and that’s all it took to get you to resign the disussion? Wow. That’s not a good sign. If you give up that easily what are you going to do when you get in the classroom and you have a parent nagging at you because you gave their kid the “B” that they deserved? What are you going to do when a principal insists you change the grade to appease the parent? What are you going to do when the same kid asks to leave the class every day to use the bathroom and is gone for a half hour, and his mother tells you that you can NOT refuse him because he has a “bladder control problem”, but then he’s failing his tests because he’s out of class and your principal is coming down on you because the kid is failing? Geez, how are you going to react when you read in a forum like this that you don’t ever deserve a raise unless you find a way to get this kid to excel like the best, brightest, most dedicated student in your class? These are some things your are going to have to take on, Burbs. Can’t let this crap get to you…why, you’ll be burned out within just a few years! Then it really sucks when you find out that burning out young teachers is part of the game! Burn ’em out before they start moving up the pay scale! Of course, it’s tough to leave when your a college degree qualifies you to be a teacher and not much else, especially when you need the gig to pay off the loans you took out to get the degree in the first place. But I digress.
I’m sure you’ll be just fine. Once you learn to deal with these kinds of things, learn not to throw in the towel just because you think someone is targeting you or being sarcastic or facetious, using your own words against you, all that crap, you’ll be fine. You just have to remember how smart you are, and what a privilege it is to be a teacher, and all the perks that go along with it. And of course, remembering what really matters most…the children! That’s why you’re there, Burbs, because you love kids and you want to help them have a solid future. And that’s why you NEED to get yourself into a classroom. You need to BE the change that you so passionately want to see! You have the fire…now you just need the spark to get you going.
Now, get yourself into that teacher education program this summer and start plugging. The world needs you. The children need you. Remember, Burbs, I’m on your side. I’m the guy who’s giving you the thumbs up when everyone else is giving you the thumbs down. I’m the guy who is emailing the Dagger Press editor demanding that they “unhide” your comments, claiming violation of your 1st Amendment rights!
We all have our raison d’etre, Burbs. Yours is to be an example of what a teacher can truly be. Mine is to see to it that your genius is not wasted. We’re in this together. I’m on your side. I believe in your cause. Now, let’s go get ’em!
Cdev,
Well, I was trying to keep it to the county, but the 70% is a statewide percent for junior colleges. And, if you remove the 4 year colleges that do not do remedial testing it is still 60% and some above that. Not a pretty picture for the state at all. The entire report was published in the Dagger if you care to search and review it. College Park, if memory serves, is pretty good but it pulls from all over.
If the magical “HR” person(s) that tell teacher’s year after year, after year, after year, after year that they will be getting raises, at some point, wouldn’t a normal sane person come to a proper conclusion based on the results, year after year, after year, after year, after year, after year?
So, what’s this person’s name that keeps telling teachers they are “Promised Raises”? Perhaps this person(s) is the one that needs fired for giving obviously, false and misleading statements about employment wage. Anyone agree? You would think the “marching orders” would be to remain neutral, or give no info on raises, but to “Promise raises” and it never happens, how many years in a row now?
And that’s just one topic, think of all the other hundreds of thousands of possible misleading, botched personal integrity issues there may be?
The Tea Party candidates are beginning to eat the Republican elected representatives. Since their message doesn’t appeal to minorities, women, gays, environmentalists or senior citizens has fallen to deaf ears, the tea baggers rely of their sure fire demographic, mostly the lower white class, military (one in the same for a good part), rednecks, gun trotting anti-government, ultra right, anti-immigration. ultra-right conservatives, Waco maniacs and the let the cows feed on federal lands crowd while not paying for it and of course the Bunchy fellow on the dagger and his alter ego Jim from Hickory
I named a group twice so that Bunchies can correct me. Leave a few crumbs for the desperate and the will surely bite…
R,
Your alter ego up there has been following me around. He is creepy and is your kind of guy.
You guys can go swap spit in the showers.
Nah, I don’t swap spit with other guys. Not that (according to Seinfeld) there’s anything wrong with that…!
It’s alright, Burbs. I know you’re not used to someone agreeing with you. That’s why it’s so hard to believe it’s really happening. But rest assured, it is. I agree with you. You the MAN! That’s why I used that as my nickname. I kept saying as I read your posts “he’s the man!”, so that’s how I came up with that. It’s the same I would say to you over and over. “You the man!”. True story.
Anyway…what do you mean about saying that I’m “creepy”, assuming that was me you were referring to? Hey, just another thing you’re going to have to get used to when you are a teacher. Imagine posting something on a site like this that acknowledges that you are a teacher. Geez, people post one thing after the next, and usually all bad stuff! You’re going to have to have the kind of spiritual fitness that helps you overcome all that. You can’t let your emotions get in the way of becoming a great classroom hero, ,Burbs.
At any rate, the swapping spit thing and the creepy bit…eh, doesn’t bother me that you pointed those things at me in the least. Hell, in my experience, if I’d let those things bother me, I’d never be able to express my opinion, except on an anonymous website. But as it stands, I can express myself in a variety of places including an anonymous website. The point is, when you’re right, you’re right, and you can’t let anyone stand in your way. You can’t let someone being facetious bring you down, you can’t let someone mocking you bring you down, you can’t let someone using your words against you bring you down. So, keep on keepin’ on, Burbs and get those college apps going, will ya please? We need to set this boat in motion, heading towards the high seas of public education!
Thanks for your heart, Burbs. We need more heart in public education.
U the Man says YOu lOsT
June 10, 2014 at 11:55 pm
Nah, I don’t swapotYOu lOsT that (according to Seinfeld) there’s anything wrong with that…!
It’s alright, Burbs. I kreeing with you. That’s whyYOu lOsT it’s so hard to believe it’s really happening. But rest assured, it is. I agree with you. You the MAN as my nickname. I kept saying as I read your posts “he’s the man!”, so that’s how I came up with that. It’s the same I would say to you over and over. “You the man!”. True story.YOu lOsT
Anyway…what do you mean about saying that I’m “creepy”, assuming that was me you were referring to? Hey, just another thing you’re going to have to get used to when you are a teacher. Imagine posting YOu lOsTsomething on a site like this that acknowledges that you are a teacher. Geez, people post one thing after the next, and usually YOu lOsTall bad stuto have the kind YOu lOsTof spiritual fitness that helps you overcome all that. You can’t let your emotions get in the way of becoming a great classroom hero, ,Burbs.
. Hell, in my experience, if I’d let those things bother me, I’d never be able to express my opinion, except on an anonymous website. But as it stands, I can expressYOu lOsT myself in a variety of places including an anonymous website. The point is, when you’re righght, and you can’t YOu lOsTlet anyone stand in your way. You can’t let someone being facetious bring you down, you can’t let someone mocking you bring you down, you can’t let ss and get those college apps going, will ya please? We need to set this boat in motion, heading towards the high seas of public education!
Thanks for your d more heart in public education.
YOu lOsT
YOu lOsT
Go back to class and give us the little we pay for.
Teach who lost…
Glad to see you know your alphabet. Now you need to work on your reading comprehension, because he already explained several times that he’s not a teacher. Then again, maybe you make a good argument for not paying teachers more; after all, if you’re an example of what’s coming out of the school system…yeah. But on the other hand, if you are what teacher’s have to deal with each day, doubling their salaries still wouldn’t make it worth their while.
So go back to class and work harder with what limited intelligence you’ve been given.
“Supervisor of Equity and Cultural Proficiency” Really? and we all wonder WTF is wrong with HCPS?
… that if douche bag O’Malley and his douche bag friends in Annapolis were to use the legalized gambling money he led Marylanders to BELIEVE would be ADDED to education in Maryland instead of playing their self serving shell game with the money, there wouldn’t be any problems funding education in Maryland. Every teacher in Maryland, hell, every parent in Maryland as well should have descended on the State House long ago by the tens of thousands to demand he keep the promise he alluded to in order to get gambling legalized.
Big +1
Everyone was in such a rush to help education that they never looked deeper into the law. Joke’s on them, er, all the taxpayers in MD…
There is absolutely NO reason whatsoever to give teachers a raise. Why? Because they will work just as hard without it. Why? Because the system is now stacked against they if they don’t. The new evaluation system is so subjective that an administrator can very easily give a teacher a poor evaluation and make it look justified. And an administrator can give a poor evaluation for any reason they choose. Refuse to sponsor a club? Bad evaluation. It happens. Teacher goes to the union….guess what? Now the teacher is in deep s%&# because he is pissing off the admin even more…and the union is POWERLESS to do anything about it. When a teacher files a grievance, guess who the first person is who decides if the grievance is legit? The teacher’s principal! But guess who the majority of grievances are filed against…the principal!!! And of course, principals have the power to involuntarily transfer a teacher for any reason they see fit! So basically the teachers WILL do what they are told. And believe me, enough teachers have been made examples that the others know to not dare stand up for themselves. I have personally watched this happen to a teacher in my school. OUTSTANDING teacher. Pushed the kids, but was fun and the kids loved him. Gave them his time, was respected by the parents, and loved teaching. Was run out by the principal and area supervisor when he said he would no longer sponsor an extra-curricular activity. Got a bad evaluation after 20+ years of glowing reviews. Went to the union, who revealed how completely powerless they were to help. At the end of his year of hell, he was transferred to a grade he never taught, teaching a subject he had no experience in and no expertise. AND the area supervisor had the balls to tell other teachers at a meeting that the same thing would happen to them if they ever went to the union about him!!!
So those of you who hate the union..
Nothing to worry about! It is a completely powerless entity, and teachers are getting the message that they WILL NOT “work to contract”. And if do, you will pay dearly. Then, just TRY to get a job in another county when you need a recommendation from your principal or supervisor! You are SCREWED if you dare stand up for yourself.
Where’s Ryan Burbey on this? This is the most important news about HCPS in several months and Burbey is where? At his condo in OC? Vacationing in Europe? I thought the HCEA had a voice? Poor Ryan. All of those teachers being screwed over and he doesn’t say jack. Oh, that’s right, he was part of the HCEA leadership team that recommended this contract be ratified. You teachers better get some representation from an organization with chutzpah if you don’t like being screwed over year after year. And you better get rid of the non-instructional clowns that get paid big dollars for getting in the way of teachers trying to teach. Susan Darden, John Hickey, Mark Buz., et al you guys are better off not getting soiled by associating with these numbskulls.
Alex R,
You really have no idea what you are talking about. HCEA pressed the issue of funding the contract as far as we legally could. We got our members all that was available to get. An unratified contract would not have put more money in the HCPS budget.
HCEA will continue to pursue a solution to the underfunding of our schools. I might remind you that I am one of the teachers who is 5 steps behind. I fully understand what everyone is going through.
It is a complete failure of our elected county leadership that this problem exists.
Now, Ryan, either you are clueless or are purposely obtuse. The contract IS the problem. That would be the contract that HCEA negotiated and the contract that HCEA recommended to its members that they ratify and that teachers did ratify based on HCEA endorsement and the contract that makes teachers think they are entitled to a raise no matter what. It allows the school system and the county to not pay raises simply by not funding raises and the HCEA can’t do squat about it but moan on the internet. Now that is what I call representation. Not. Don’t blame it on county leadership, Ryan. The HCEA endorsed and teacher ratified contract is the problem.
Again, you prove how little you know….
MD state law allows the same provision which is being used to not fund our steps, which are not raises. Look it up in COMAR.
The problem is our county leadership. It is about choices. I will enumerate it for you.
1. The County Executive could have provided sufficient funding.
2. The County Council could have amended the budget to provide sufficient funding.
3. The Board of Education could have funded the steps and made the cuts necessary to make HCPS sustainable.
Every other jurisdiction in MD makes the choice to first honor its contracts with its employees. Unfortunately Harford County does not prioritize its teachers, HCPS staff, sheriffs or county workers.
We need leaders who will make the right choices which sustain our community and schools.
Burb,
“The County Executive could have provided sufficient funding”…
“County Council could have amended the budget”
“Every other jurisdiction in MD makes the choice to first honor its contracts”
You missed the truth: the state shifted the pensions on the counties while giving counties, like Balt. County, subsidies to pay for the pension shift. Harford County got nothing, zero – and now the county is facing massive losses from the downsizing of the Proving Ground.
Your political buddies screwed Harford County and continue to screw them by such things as spending 10 million on 20 lousy jobs at the Proving Ground and and running a tab on a money pit of a helicopter.
Deny the fact that when you were running your mouth at the county meetings you never made one specific suggestion regarding what all you would cut to pay for the for all the steps and pay increases that you feel were necessary. Care to list them? Go ahead list and total – and don’t insult our intelligence by mixing in anything from the capital budget.
Every county got “subsides” to offset the pension shift. There were several revenue increases passed to offset the pension shift. Harford County has seen this through increases in income tax and other revenues. The pension shift has been coming for over twenty years. Harford County leadership should have prepared.
I have repeatedly asked the council to stop funding pay go projects, postpone fleet replacements and other optional expenditures, cut land acquisitions, etc. I will leave it to you to review my comments and see the suggestions which I voiced publicly.
Alex,
The Burb was at a fundraiser for D-James where they were celebrating her 10 million for the 3D project, then they took the ‘Girls rule the Nation’ on a field trip to the Aero Space Museum and were surprised that is wasn’t empty.
How is “Girls Rule the Nation” an acceptable ‘social program’ that HCPS let’s continue on their property?
Sounds sexist to me. Maybe its a way for teachers in reality to ‘up’ their LinkedIn profiles, expanding potential jobs being offered to them? Jokes on us.
Someone should start a “Boys are better” program and see what happens. Lots of feet stomping and calls to Bel Air, I’m sure.
Burb,
You’re being slippery and you know it. Harford County did not quality under the rigged formula for a direct subsidy – while Baltimore county and others did. You put the “subsidies” in quotes because you are trying to fob off the right to tax as a subsidy – it ain’t. Big freakin’ deal! In other words, the state said the county could just raise taxes to pay for the pension liability…. Hey Burbs! Could that be why the county can’t raise the taxes anymore to pay for pay increases. Maybe it was the state’s fault.
Okay, let me try again: what things in the operating budget would you cut to pay for a pay raise since salaries are part of the operating budget.
Oh, and wouldn’t you agree that the whirlybird was a waste of money. And, what is your opinion about the millions from the county to pay for 20 jobs at the Proving Ground.
Harford County got direct revenue from tax increases enacted at a state level to offset the pension shift. I agree that our delegation has also failed to sufficiently represent our county on many issues, including education funding.
I would eliminate the practice of using PAYGO to fund capital projects. I would postpone fleet replacement. Anything in the Capital budget which is funded with cash outside of dedicated funds should be curtailed.
I can’t really comment on the helicopter. I don’t really know enough details. M understanding is that the county did not pay anything for the additive manufacturing jobs.
Burb,
Read the HB 1060 bill -Harford and Cecil Counties are to contribute. The state authorized the counties to increase taxes to pay for the pensions – and please don’t bring up the gambling money which was – like everything else – promised for education and then put into the general fund. You are also ignoring the issue of the rigged formula the state concocted to give money to counties like Baltimore and Harford got nothing. And, so you are saying rob the capital budget and ignore what the one party state has done to Harford – because we must not offend the one party… your party.
The CE has shown an abysmal record in funding education and paying county employees, sheriff employees, library system and HCC as well. I has a great record of helping create TIFFS’s, buildings, environmental dumps, landfills, empty prisons, internet expansion to the tune of over $10 million. A water treatment plan that wasn’t needed for another 20 years in Abingdon. He definitely likes to buy and build big shinny things ( Napoleon complex), he likes to borrow money (lots of it) while he keeps the tax rate down and has been quite stingy with raises for the general workforce, he has taken care of his special staff, family members and campaign contributors. He has been able to do this with total impunity since his party rules HCG and the CC is clueless and gutless.
How much did it cost to get replace functioning Blackberries for Iphones? Think every County employee position with a county blackberry now has a county Iphone. Oh my.
Wonderer,
Basis bulk and contract, they should have been all but free. Even a single user can get them that way with extended contracts. If any bulk customer paid list price then they should be investigated. So, how much did they pay? Or, are you just kicking up some dust here.
Wondering– I don’t know of anyone that has Iphone’s paid by the county. Blackberry is standard issue for department heads and I don’t think all have them. Are you suggesting that the county’s top brass should use their phones for business use?
I use my own phone in case of need while out on business but that’s my choice. No, the county doesn’t reimburse me for my cell cost just part of doing business as it wouldn’t cost me anymore or less with unlimited text and minutes. A few years ago there was a reimbursement process but it was so cumbersome to get paid the per call cost that it wasn’t worth it. Since it is my phone, using for business is my call and its records are mine not the county’s. Buying in bulk? The county wouldn’t be buying that many to merit a huge discount. Blackberry is probably still used due to its email and safety features. I do think the county has a provider that offers a govt discount but I don’t know more than that and if I did I wouldn’t be disclosing it here either.
I would support an investigation of all the hybrid vehicles purchased, environmental landfills, parcels of land unused, empty parking lots that were to be the new administration building, empty prison buildings, defective county council building, water treatment plants not needed for 20 years and new emergency operations buildings and as an honorable mention, 3 high schools replaced, central park lot next to the Festival and new arts center which the sign as gone up the past few months at Route 24 and Wheel Roads
“Blackberry is probably still used.” So, you don’t know? But I do?
Wondering— Blackberries are seen used from time to time. As I don’t know all the department heads or deputy directors that may have. I haven’t seen county issued smartphones but I don’t know everyone or are around the heads to know more than that. Inspectors use flip phones as well. A limited number of people have phones because they need to be reached at any time or are on call duty.
Mostly Blue, “water treatment plants not needed for 20 years?”
There has been no new “water treatment plants.” The county is in the process of upgrading. Abingdon received (and finished) their upgrade, and Sod Run is also having a major upgrade done.
They build and upgrade pumping stations all the time.
Water treatment plant was built on another site on Abingdon Road in the past 3 or 4 years for a total for about $35 million or so.
Buddy, the Abingdon Water treatment plant was built in the 90s.
They recently added onto the same plant, by basically building an exact duplicate of it, right next to it.
There is not two water treatment plants in Abingdon.
The entire side of that rubble fill was sold to the county. They upgraded the water plant, built a large radio antenna, and are now building a maintenance facility.
Do you even drive that road? Stop commenting on stuff you know nothing about.
Look on google maps buddy, it doesn’t get much more accurate than that.
http://enr.construction.com/bonus_regions/midatlantic/2012/1210-abingdon-water-treatment-plant-expansion.asp
Mr Burbey:
“I would eliminate the practice of using PAYGO to fund capital projects.”
Yet another instance showing how you would never survive in private industry. Bonds are like refinancing your house, you’re supposed to do it only when absolutely necessary and you’ll be paying interest on it for at least a decade so the project has to be very important to be worth that extra cost, PAYGO is like (well, is) paying cash. Would you refinance your house to buy a new washer & dryer? No, you’d pick a cheaper pair that might not have steam cleaning, might not include the pedestals, mundane white instead of candy apple red, or a lower tier brand, until they fit within your budget.
Your attitude is very self-serving, you don’t care about what eliminating PAYGO would do to HC’s bond rating, annual interest payments, tax rates, or any other concern, you just want more money in your pocket.
Spending is like driving a car, some roads (people) have a 65mph limit ($65k/yr salary), so they can go 65 (spend $65k) without risk, or maybe edge it up to 75 for a little while without running into serious trouble (spend $75k one year when savings allow). But other roads have a 50mph limit ($50k/yr), and if you go 75mph on that road for long periods of time (spend $75k/yr without the savings to back it up), you’re going to end up in the police blotter (bankruptcy).
HCPS is on that 50mph road, and you want to go 100mph. Sorry Mr Burbey, HC taxpayers aren’t interested in that ride, regardless of your personal desires or compulsions.
No, what i would suggest is that we only build projects that are necessary. Roads, etc. should be funded through the dedicated funding mechanisms in the charter. If a project is not worthy of bonding and does not fall into a dedicated funding category, it should not happen. We likely don’t need it. Similarly, mechanisms need to be in place to prevent “overbuilding” like the Hickory emergency management fortress.
Blue,
Keep on voting the same state hacks in and keep on suffering. If you want to get a quick 10 million, get D-James to divert if from the lousy 20 jobs it creates at the Proving Ground and put it in a fund for County pay raises. No? Rather whip Craig who has kept the lid on spending while suffering the teacher pension shift. But, okay – just pull the dem lever. Oh, and let’s keep helicopter Bane in office.
Maryland, the best state ever! And it’s run by democrats.
The state of Maryland has managed to give its employees some raises more often than HC has. I was responding to Craig’s record, but you can make any arguments about O’Malley and I can counter with your pathetic Bob Erchlick’s record or Bush. Either way, the republican party is just as guilty in taking care of the base.
Blue,
“The state of Maryland has managed to give its employees some raises” – I gather that is the operative standard, but with MD having 25% government employees and over 13% in the totally dependent class you have a long term burden that no private sector can carry. At 38% you have a voting block on the state level to deliver a one party state – and never ending increases for wages and dependency – but you do not have the foundation of wealth to begin to pay for it.
If anything, BRAC is a wake up call – but it is a call that those who can hear have already heard. The somnambulistic, democrat voter will only see things like the 3D (half million per) D-James jobs as a solution – but ole Uncle Sugar is running out of sugar.
(nytimes.com/2014/business/Anna Bernasek 7/26)
median household net worth 2003 – $87,992.00
median household net worth 2013 – $56,335.00
… a 36% decline.
How can anybody see the problem as solely one of not giving government employees a raise? Is it ever in the possibility that those who work for the government can entertain the idea that the people you want the money from do not have any – and that the massive number of rich people is only a myth?
I don’t care about any numbers your spout about as figures can be manipulated and the reasons for the decline in income as you show are many, including a bad business cycle the last few years, thanks to Bush and his unfunded wars, bailouts and tax cuts to the rich. Obama hasn’t helped the situation either.
Harford County citizens have had it pretty good as the plummeting real estate lowered their assessments and the tax rates weren’t ever increased ( in fact, decreased a little).
Maryland is one of the wealthiest states in the nation and highly taxed as well as are most Midwest and northeast states. The taxpayer doesn’t seem to be suffering or at least they still go out to eat in droves. Try going out to eat on any weekend in Bel Air. I am not suggesting that people shouldn’t go out to eat, but if people didn’t have any money because the taxes are so high then they wouldn’t be going out as often. Maybe you don’t have any money and I am not saying that some people can’t pay and I know many others that pay a whole lot (my family owns a business, so I don know the cost of taxes). You can’t have a workforce getting a small raise twice in 10 years. I have seen the market comeback and jobs are growing. Pay the employees a fair wage and stop paying for infrastructure that isn’t needed at this time.
Oh, you want to speak of wasted money on the internet? How about your one party state that gave us the $250 million dollar Health Care website that didn’t work.
I forgot, that was done by the right party, so we overlook that. What a joke.
After reading this, I’m not sure how we swayed off the topic of the article.
Some observations, I’d recommend no one reply to “Mostly Blue,” as their geography and factual information based on Harford County is incorrect.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/explore/harford/news/ph-ag-abingdon-water-plant-0629-20120628,0,1213927.story
Not quite that, 35 Million, is it? If built onto “another site” means, literally, right next door on the same parcel/property, then you are correct.
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1994-10-16/news/1994289110_1_harford-county-raw-water-drinking-water
1994, construction of the Abingdon Water Treatment plant.
3340 Abingdon Rd, Abingdon, MD. That’s the address of the plant, find me the address of the “other” plant.
@knows morr—- don’t really know what you know more off???
It was an expansion of gigantic proportions, not even the $35 million I thought, but actually $70 instead!!!!
The closed landfill near it but it isn’t the same and I travel Abingdon Road pretty often.
http://www.harfordneighbors.net/index.php?section=1&subtype=149&id=5543
3340 Abingdon Rd, Abingdon, MD. Tell me how “It isn’t the same.”
The “expanded” the facility. They didn’t build it “somewhere else,” the expansion was literally, 200 or less feet from the original facility.
Expansion or addition doesn’t matter. $70 million was the point. Some people just pick the slightest thing and make that the point. CE has spend and borrowed with abandon while leaving teachers, employees and deputies high and dry. If this was a democrat CE, the Tea party folks would be up in arms but as long as the CE is a republican and the tax rate isn’t increased then your party is pretty happy. That has been the modus operandi for the longest time, really since Reagan. Against the stimulus package which kept the economy from the abyss.
if it is 200 feet away, then it isn’t another building??? are you for real? You can call it an expansion and I will still call it wasted money. It wasn’t needed to double the water capacity unless you are pre-planning to take over water distribution for he whole county which guess what, that’s precisely what they are proposing. Same thing with trash pick up now!!!. It doesn’t seem like smaller government to me… They have spent millions on a feasibility study for a water authority and same will happen with a trash department.
and a Fire department is on its way too as they now have in effect taken over the Volunteer Fire departments own purse strings. In a way, that’s good for my job security as the more the govt is involved in daily things such as police, fire, water and trash the more you will need more county employees and in the end the tax payer will pay as they should. Too many tax payer evading free loaders in this county.
Uhh? Go away, please.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/explore/harford/news/ph-ag-spencer-landfill-closure-0323-20120322,0,7009784.story
Bleu… more waste by the county. The county bought the Spencer Rubble Landfill (private company) and assumes its environmental liabilities to be able to expand the water facility. You and morr.. should get together and read up on county extravagant expenditures before you mouth off about the location and address of such expenditure.
User: “Mostly Blue.” I can tell you like to debate on the Internet. There is one thing not debatable, the physical address of the building(s). There is nothing to “mouth off” too. Your personal opinion of things being “waste of money” are yours only. Please stop replying on your personal biased comments.
What is your background to judge that the County did not need to expand it’s water treatment plant? Please cite numbers, references, factual information.
I don’t have a personal bias on any item and I like state my opinion as much as the next knuckle head on this site. I can count at least $300 million in additional debt service during his administration and I am probably being conservative. If you don’t think building a prison and having it empty since opening isn’t a waste of money then I guess I must be missing something and the same goes for doubling the water treatment capacity when the previous capacity wasn’t even in question.
User: “mostly blue,” Are you the off topic master, or what? What does building additions onto a Detention Center have anything to do with my question that I personally asked you.
Obviously the demands, and future infrastructure of the upgrade to Water Treatment plants are in question. I’m sure you know otherwise? Yep.
Feel free to “reply” to me and continue your conversation about your personal opinions way off basis of the topics discussed, but you “won” the internet this time. I am no longer interested in your replies. Thank you.
Well I hope someone is watching the budget now.
And watching some of these smooth promotions they are putting through–looks and sounds like friends helping friends and not following the proper chain of command or normal process. Hopefully the board will ask some question tomorrow night