County Councilman Chad Shrodes, joined by parents in his North Harford district, are urging Harford County Public Schools to create a separate “North Harford Zone” for weather-related school closings and delays, similar to the Hereford Zone in Baltimore County Public Schools. Winter weather conditions that prompted the school system to close early today sparked creation of the group’s Facebook page entitled “North Harford School Zone Petition to HCPS”, which quickly surpassed 1,400 members.
Harford County Public Schools did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
The Facebook page includes member photos of weather conditions in the area today, and school buses traveling on snow covered roadways. North Harford is a mostly rural area of the county, characterized by farmlands and rolling hills.
Questions about the Facebook page were referred to Councilman Shrodes.
Shrodes told The Dagger that the Facebook page was his idea to gauge interest in the issue and to get the attention of decision-makers. He said that his district typically gets more snow and is several degrees colder than the rest of the county. “It’s a micro-climate up here,” he said.
Shrodes said that some North Harford parents kept their children home from school today because of concerns about road safety. The area got 8 – 9 inches of snow, he said, while other parts of the county got only a few inches. “I personally saw two buses that were stuck…The thing is, it is unsafe up here,” Shrodes said. He also saw today as an opportunity to garner support for a longstanding issue: “It was just the perfect storm to demonstrate what I’ve been saying for a long time.”
With support from Council President Billy Boniface, Shrodes said that his next step will be to draft a letter to the Board of Education.
Below is the school system’s announcement regarding Monday’s early dismissal. In response to questions earlier in the day from The Dagger, a HCPS spokesperson said that February 3rd will still count as a school day. Therefore, an inclement weather make up day will not be required.
From HCPS:
Harford County Public Schools will close early today, Monday, February 3. Schools will be dismissed on the following schedule:
• High schools and North Harford Middle School will dismiss at 10:00 a.m.;
• Middle schools and the John Archer School will dismiss at 10:45 a.m.;
• Elementary schools, including Pre-K, will dismiss at 11:30 a.m.; and
• Fourth tier schools will dismiss at noon.
Afternoon Pre-K and Alternative Education programs are cancelled. In addition, all school activities – including field trips and afterschool activities – are cancelled.
Concerned Parent says
This is HORRIBLE! How are we supposed to trust our children with this school system. This was obviously a planned event! They didn’t even delay the opening so that they could get the children in to school, close early and ship them right back out. Why? So that they could say it was an early dismissal and another snow day! The problem is larger than this and has been for years. They do not plan for ANY snow days. They say they do but guess what the snow days are? Spring break! In my book that is not a snow day. After the last few years of missing spring break and having to extend the school year one would think that they would add additional snow days to the school year. Terrible planning and total lack of respect for our children’s safety.
Cdev says
They do. Read the calendar you got!!!!
Concerned Parent says
I did read it and it is irritating. That isn’t a plan. Here is the current running list of the last day of school:
1.Tuesday, June 10
2.Wednesday, June 11
3.Thursday, June 12
4.Friday, June 13
5.Monday, April 14
6.Tuesday, April 15
7.Wednesday, April 16
This isn’t planning to me…if we have a snow day, it makes the school year longer, there are not any snow days.
Really??? says
With all due respect, would you then be one of the parents that would be the first in line to complain to the school that your child will miss the end of the school year due to planned vacations?
You can’t have it both ways.
Concerned Parent says
this policy drives me crazy. it is doublespeak. We have a snow day plan. umm there is no plan, just add on to the end of the school year. Every year we add in several days to the end of the year and then take away the spring break. that’s not a plan to me, its a plan to not have a plan.
Cdev says
That is planning!!! They clearly identified when the snow days will be made up and in what order ! They have done this for at least the last ten years!!!!!
Concerned Parent says
I stand corrected. You are right, it is a plan and a very simple one to maintain at that! But that is the problem. We don’t adjust it, every year the school year gets extended and the spring break is lost. I just don’t understand why we keep repeating the same bad plan year after year. I also find it very misleading to say we have snow days because a snow day is typically budgeted into the calendar. Instead our plan says our snow days are automatic makeup days.
Kharn says
Concerned Parent,
If we implemented your plan, school would run until July due to the extra snow days. I would prefer my kids lose a few days of spring break.
Cdev says
There was once a time in this county the April Inservice days (which are the potential makeup days) did not fall near spring break and spring break was only Thursday-Monday!
Sam Adams says
I would not trust them for any thing. If I’m Harford Day, Mountain Christian, John Carroll, etc. I would be thinking big time expansion plans right now because public education in this County is beginning a death spiral fueled by administrators who are incapable of getting the easiest of decisions right, a school board that is directionless and a county executive and council that is not willing to come up with the funds to pay teachers what they deserve. You are right, it goes much deeper.
Kharn says
The weather prediction was downgraded overnight from 4-8″ of snow to 1-3″ of slush with a possibility of just rain due to the warm air. HCPS made the right call on holding school until the cold front came to fruition.
Concerned Parent says
I know of at least 1 bus that had an accident today, I doubt the parents of those children would agree that it was the right decision to not delay, send them in and then immediately cancel schools and put them right back on the bus to go home.
dcfattboy says
@Kharn: so maybe you would like to volunteer yourself to shuttle all those kids home through the 9″ of snow THAT DID FALL in N. HarfCnty; just because BelAir only got a dusting does not mean the safety of the kids further north should be endangered. I believe the issue here is to address the unique challenge faced by N. HarCo; sounds like BaltoCo. has properly addressed the issue, don’t see why this county can’t face reality and do likewise. btw: I don’t live in N. HarfCo and I don’t have kids in the school system; safety of the children should be the paramount objective.
Margaret says
I agree. My daugter was dismissed from Bel Air High at 10:00 this morning, the roads were very icy and she had an accident driving home. Thank God she’s alright but lost control of her car and drove up on the sidewalk to avoid a head on accident. HCPS are idiots to not close school this morning. They waited until the storm was the worst and then dismissed students putting them all in danger.
The Money Tree says
The conversation could have gone something like this:
Daughter: Mom they’ve cancelled school again…we’re out at 10:00.
Mom: What do the roads look like?
Daughter: I can’t tell but it looks like maybe sleet and some snow…sticking just a little, not too bad.
Mom: That’s all fine but I don’t like you driving in this stuff because as much as you hate to hear it you’re still not a very experienced driver. How’s about I come get you. I’d feel much more comfortable you not being on the roads in this. Can you wait until 11:00? Meet me out front at 11:00.
Concerned Parent says
So I guess it was the bus drivers fault that crashed to day too!
Hasdwipes says
Vehicular negligence through inclement weather is still negligence.
Nanny state mentality goes straight from the top to the bottom, we all act unprepared every time it farts 1 inch of snow passing the blame to everyone but ourselves.
Kharn says
That isn’t a very fair comparison, your average bus driver is going to have decades more driving experience than any high school student. Some percentage of drivers are going to have accidents in every storm, but that doesn’t mean inexperienced drivers should be on the road when a reasonable alternative is available.
Concerned Parent says
I know and agree but also think there should be some responsibility on the school system as well. There is a student parking lot full of young and inexperienced drivers. Sending them all out on the road in the middle of a storm where more experienced drivers are having trouble is not responsible either.
Kharn says
Concerned Parent:
I doubt a single HCPS employee told any student that they were prohibited from taking the bus if they had a car in the parking lot. Inexperienced drivers, and their parents, must realize their limitations and plan accordingly.
Eating Tomatos says
“There is a student parking lot full of young and inexperienced drivers. Sending them all out on the road in the middle of a storm where more experienced drivers are having trouble is not responsible either.”
That’s a parent’s choice whether or not they let their children drive in a snow storm. Responsibility of decisions is ultimately left for the parents.
Parents (usually woman) always say something like, “The children will receive letters because of unexcused absence and be danger of failing.”
You would have to have just crawled out from under a rock if you believe this. School’s don’t want your kid in classes any longer than necessary… Realistically, kids don’t really “fail” school anymore.
Kharn says
Agreed, or take the bus home.
My parents would use the school parking lot to practice foul weather driving techniques each time we went to retrieve the car. Showing an inexperienced driver how to handle a skid and letting them practice is very different from being lectured in driver’s ed.
Right. says
Right. But you’re not an idiot for letting your daughter, who has limited experience, drive to school when you knew a storm was coming.
just to clarify says
The schools did not make your daughter crash! she was the operator of the vehicle.
Doh says
So when does it become your responsibility and not the school systems? Since she started driving, did the school say she couldn’t ride the bus?
Sam Adams says
HCPS officials looked like simple-minded idiots today. Come to think of it, its no different than any other day. Keech – Grotsky – Haas – Tomback – Canavan…the parade of fools continue.
The Money Tree says
In defense of this decision it is possible that all weather is not always predictable. Parents bitch if they send them to school if there’s any accumulation at all – less than and inch generally gets everybody’s pants all waded up…they also bitch if they send them home, call it off for the day, change the bus stops, make the kids walk beyond the foot of the driveway, collect any fees for extracurricular activities not associated with getting an education – it’s a pretty long list of gripes; so long in fact you’d think having kids at all perhaps is just to much responsibility for anybody. No wonder the teachers get fed up with the lot of you.
Sam Adams says
Here’s a reasonable solution, if Rick Ayers has to invade my privacy with a phone call about an emergency situation then schools should be immediately closed. Rick Ayers is obviously concerned with the safety of each and every Harford resident and has everyone’s best interests in mind. Afterall, Rick Ayers takes the time to personally call each and every resident and send them an email. Rick Ayers is the one true public servant, a veritable superman. Frankly, I can’t comprehend how Rick Ayers has the time to make the thousands of phone calls and emails in face of the onslaught of impending disasters that befall us poor woeful citizens. Without Rick Ayers, I would not have a clue about the 3-6 inches of snow that he told me last night was on the way. Rick Ayers will come shovel your driveway too. If only the Broncos had Rick Ayers at QB last night, they would not have been so humiliated. Rick Ayers will make sure each and every student will arrive home safely today, you can count on that. If Canavan would only listen to Rick Ayers then everything would be good. Rick Ayers for man of the year.
heresyoursign says
“I can’t comprehend how Rick Ayers has the time to make the thousands of phone calls and emails in face of the onslaught of impending disasters that befall us poor woeful citizens.”
Your serious right…. you do know thats is a computer generated call, along with text message and emails. Its called technology. He records and types it once and hits send. Google automation… then google “how stupid am I”.
Kharn says
I don’t think Rick Ayers is interested in an NFL career at this point.
Marla says
Now, I really hope that your answer also sarcastic because the comment YOU commented on with such “seriousness” was (and I am sure of that) meant to be a sarcastic remark about the intrusion that is made at times by the EOC into private lives, as though we were all too stupid not to be aware of what is going on with the weather. I actually do not need Rick Ayers to tell me what the meterologists already have said and I have sense enough to decide when it would be safe to be on the road or not.
Therefore, I really think that the first comment was through and through sarcasm. If you did not see that, then YOU are the one that needs to google “stupid”.
Jack Rabbit says
I would recommend the HCPS like “Justin Berk, Meteorologist” facebook page. He has been calling for this exact event for days now. He is very good at predicting the weather.
Jack Rabbit says
Oops!! Justin just basically called the powers to be at HCPS boobs for closing.
Nevermind
Della says
No, Justin Berk called them out for 1) not delaying the schools to have time to assess the situation then 2) for letting the kids out early in the middle of the storm before crews had time to plow or salt. We are in the northern part of the county and by 6:45am it was snowing hard!
Monster says
Jack Rabbit,
Justin Berk has no responsibility for his forecast or of the children who attend the HCPS. Think about it.
Brian says
If the school system listened to Justin Berk, they would not be in school this winter! He has over inflated every storm that has come through here this winter. He is a snow fanatic, by his totals every storm since Jan 1 would have been 10+ inches. I live in the North Harford region and my house has yet to top 8″ from any storm and that was the one in early December.
Rayjay says
I wish teachers would quit bitching about pay raises on here. What does you facing the real world and not getting your automatic raise have to do with the weather?
Hasdwipes says
People overreact and BS everything, everytime HCPS has been 2 hours late posted on their “social media” page, hundred hilarious comments are posted. Extremely exaggerated emotional responses, duh, it snows in Maryland, learn how to drive.
democrats smell like poop says
I need a raise but I cannot work inside when it is raining outside.
Hasdwipes says
Read the comments on their facebook page, it seems people have turned into helpless nanny state drones.
Pass and point the blame to someone else, how about they just deal with the situation. Love to live in misery, huh?
All them feet stompers go clippity clap clap with their keyboards on “social media” and not even 1/4 of them probably show up to BOE meetings to pass comments on.
The Money Tree says
waaaaa….I demand you send the bus right to my driveway because my 13 year old should not have to walk 200 yds down the road, unless of course it’s snowing then I demand you not send the bus, but don’t send the bus to take junior there and then send the bus to take junior home because then that means I’m inconvenienced.
Hasdwipes says
Same people that complain about schools not being shoveled enough don’t even have their.own property cleared of snow themselves with their own labor.
Say It Ain't So says
Can’t win with some people! Off of school or go to school – either way someone feels they need to whine and complain. All the private schools follow what HCPS does, so they can’t even make decisions on their own. Stop whining. It’ll give you more time to take your kids to the mall. They don’t have a delay on that!
actually says
Actually, when Harford Christian officials saw how quickly things were deteriorating in Dublin they halted their buses in mid route, contacted parents and sent them back. Prior to that they announced that attendance would not be taken for the day. Cecil made the right call to delay 2 hours to assess the situation – particularly since all the weather heads had been predicting a change over right in the middle of the morning commute…
Highly Litigious says
Hey man, everyone’s got a lawyer on speed dial, right? You think everyone complains about the budget now, what happens when HCPS has to settle out of court for millions of dollars because of a bad call? The government requires 180 days of school… snow days don’t change that. Better to play it safe than sorry, right?
Monster says
Highly Litigious, I think that about covers it.
HCmom says
Make a decision and stick to it! This last minute and back/forth crap is what pisses everybody off. AND having your kids return home in “the thick of it” is what causes all the worry. Not rocket science.
Cindy Mumby says
HCPS has confirmed that despite the early dismissal, today counts as a school day. Therefore an inclement weather make-up day will NOT be required.
democrats smell like poop says
Since I pay your salaries, the way I see it ladies…………….. you owe me for 6 hours numb-nuts.
On your faces!
well... says
there’s your answer… if all you have to do is endanger a small percentage of the school population in order to get all of them in for two worthless hours in order to avoid another weather make-up day…. well, that’s a no brainer. Let the vehicular mayhem begin!
magnet school parent says
The magnet school kids were supposed to be brought all the way to their neighborhoods today. The school board had us all fill out forms that had the regular bus stops on them and a spot to write in your address if there was no stop near your house. We filled out these forms in October! My kids were dropped of at 2 different high schools instead. One of the bus drivers said he had no idea that there were any other arrangements for emergency weather closings. Way to go HCPS!
Kharn says
Your message boils down to one of your magnet kids got on the wrong bus…
Laughing Loudly says
You would think a highly intelligent magnet student could figure out which bus was theirs, even if some critical thinking, and “social” skills such as asking which bus was theirs.
magnet school parent says
at Laughing Loudly, you are a jerk too! The kids got on the correct bus, the bus driver didn’t know anything about the plan for days like today, so he just dropped them off. HCPS needs to get it together.
Laughing Loudly says
Time to move on. What else are ya’ gonna complain about?
magnet school parent says
You jerk. She didn’t get the wrong bus. She got on the bus that was supposed to take all of the kids who live in the Havre de Grace area TO THEIR HOMES. Instead, the bus driver dropped them off at HdG HS, like he does every other day and told them as they got off the bus that he didn’t know anything about taking them home on days like today, when the schools close early due to weather.
Laughing Loudly says
Time to move on with life.
Kharn says
So which high school did the other kid end up at?
You said they ended up at different schools. Did the kids not tell the driver the bus was at the wrong school?
Cdev says
Interesting how the story seems to change!
magnet school parent says
My North Harford student ended up at Aberdeen HS. She wasn’t on the bus driver’s “list” of those being dropped at their homes, even though I turned the form in twice. Her bus dropped off 2 other kids, that live about a mile from us and then took her to Aberdeen. And before you ask, Kharn, why didn’t she just get off at one of those stops and walk home? Because there is nowhere to walk besides the middle of the road or in the heavy brush that grows along the side of the road.
Kharn says
Then why did she get off the bus at Aberdeen? I bet if she’d told the driver she was supposed to be at HdG or her home and refused to get off except at either location, the driver would have made sure she got there.
aberdeen parent says
Sorry this happened to your kids. I don’t know what program they are with, but we have a wonderful leader at the SMA who went around to the classrooms and reminded the kids about the changes for early dismissal.
To those being so harsh and critical, this is the first early dismissal using this new system for the magnets. A 17 or 18 yr old should figure things out easier than a 14 yr old 9th grader. Also, sounds like the bus driver was not given correct instructions.
magnet school parent says
I know. My daughter is at SMA. And I don’t think I am being harsh or critical at all. They have had 3 months to work this out. Did you get that letter in October about the plan for days such as these? It’s not like they had to make a plan for thousands of kids. How many in the magnet programs, 400 or so? My kids did what they were supposed to do, HCPS and the bus companies and whoever was organizing this thing from the beginning did not.
Laughing Loudly says
Goodness, do yourselves a favor and the read the (currently) 17some comments on HCPS facebook.
When did so many people become so helpless? They are some great quotes, one comment mentions its “HCPS fault” that someone got into an automobile crash. Wow.
Eating Tomatos says
I find it hilarious that so many people, who (have been) live in Maryland react to 1″ of snow as if it’s their first time ever being around it. Just about every year it snows, have we truly become a society of morons, or what? Comments everywhere show a lot of people “need” someone else to make a decision for them. The pleasure of living your life with negativity meet’s it’s morning ritual by taking your fancy smart phone out of “sleep mode” and navigating to the County School facebook page for all in, pile on onslaught of negative comments. Time to “move on” as someone else suggested here, can’t get hung up for days of a decision hat’s now a thing of the “past.”
As if anyone important enough in the school system would actually take the time to read each commenters paragraph of worthless text on “Facebook,” when you get done spewing your negativity, don’t forget to “like” your friend’s vacation pictures.
I also find it WAY OUT OF LINE that some people have the mentality to believe it is the school system’s fault for causing you to wreck your car when it’s snowing? I hope these people aren’t raising children.
lol says
OH you guys don’t know? The stay at home moms (who’s husbands make 6 figures) are never wrong. They live in their dream world and criticize everyone else. HCPS is wrong…teachers are wrong…the cable guy is wrong! This county is so backward and it’s not just Craig. (although he is a complete moron who is killing public education). I know so many teachers who are “planning their escape” and he will be left with green educators who have no clue. But he’ll be saving money. SO enjoy Harco…and all the rich snobs who think this is the center of the universe.
Laughing at you says
If their hubbys made 6 figures, their kids would be in private school…..kinda jealous huh????
TSB says
Not true,
I know many people that make 6 figure salaries that send their kids to public school. Some with the attitude of “if it was good enough for me, it’s good enough for them” and others that say “I’m not spending money when they can get it for free”.
Tired Granny says
The Education in the North Harford Public Schools is amazing. Why would anyone pay for something private that couldn’t be much better then what we have.
Duck Farmer says
When did this debate get so off topic? 6 figure salaries? what does this have to do with not delaying schools? How ridiculous. and for the record… I don’t make 6 figures. Not even close. Neither do any of my friends in the NHHS area. Who cares!
Harford County parent says
I am very sorry that HCPS did not make the decision to start with a 2 hr. delay to allow themselves time to re-evaluate all parts of the county to be able to make a final decision as to close or not before ANY of the kids had been taken to the schools. We as parents need to use the right of responsibility and not waiver in the decision to keep our child/children home from school when we feel the safety is compromised due to weather conditions. If more people, chose to keep the children home then the HCPS sees that safety is a major concern. We also need to stop name calling different parts of the county and have a respectful discussion on this issue. Not that it’s being mentioned much in all the discussions but the northern part of the county was not the only area where there were car accidents or bus accidents. There were several in the Bel Air/ Campus Hills area. There should also (when possible) be a team effort to coordinate dismissals between HCC and the HCPS schools across the street (Tech and John Archer). There was total gridlock and several accidents right in that vicinity. I fully understand the emotional frustrations of many people today but this is not a cut and dry, let’s draw a line on the map of the county easy issue to solve. If it was, it would have been implemented before now. We were very lucky to have 2 mild winters back to back and many people are not used to this winter weather. Continue to do the research but in all reality, we want every student in this county to be safe going to and from school not just one area!
Volunteer mom says
I agree with most all that you said. We live in. Forest Hill and at 6:40 this morning we had no snow at all, just rain. My son drove to school at North Harford and I got on the computer. Instantly I was seeing pictures and complaints from other parents in the North Harford district about the conditions and accidents in the area. By 7:40, I called the school and asked them to send my kids home immediately. It didn’t really start snowing at my house until 8:00. That being said, I used my judgement based on rain and let my son drive not knowing how bad the road were going to be. The North Harford district is a huge district and what is happening in one area usually isn’t the same in another area.
Becky says
Agree! Ditto!
Volunteer mom says
This is the second time in less then two months that our acting Superintendent showed that she does not care about the North Harford Community. (Not both weather related) it is obvious that this lady needs to go and hopefully we can get someone who cares.
For all of you that are supporting the decision made today, maybe you should check out the FB page and see some of the pictures of our area before you give your input. Maybe you should talk to some of the teens, parent and bus drivers who were sliding all over the roads or in ditches. I would like to thank all of the bus drivers who were put in this ugly situation today. Thank you for doing you best and keeping our children safe!
Concerned Citizen says
I can honestly tell you that it was not until I moved out to Street for a few years that I understood how drastically different the weather conditions are up there. Combine that with some of the narrow, windy, back roads and it is a disaster in the making. After that, I absolutely agree that we should have a north Harford zone, similar to the Hereford zone in Baltimore County. But in Harford County, our elected officials seem to be focused on other priorities that are not necessarily conducive to quality of life for its citizens.
seriously? says
“This is the second time in less then two months that our acting Superintendent showed that she does not care about the North Harford Community. (Not both weather related) it is obvious that this lady needs to go and hopefully we can get someone who cares.” What an absolutely ridiculous thing to say. You obviously do not know the woman. As for the not “weather related” issue you need to know the facts before you make assumptions.
volunteer mom says
Unfortunately, I do know the FACTS! And if you choose to believe the terrible rumors, well then shame on you. People close to the situation know the truth and know that if someone put just a bit of effort into really researching, they would find it all based on retaliation! When my kids when to South Hampton MS, she preached rules and was nowhere around to enforce them. It was all up to the Asst. Principals. Now she doesn’t seem to be doing her job once again. Responding and acknowledging parents concerns is part of the job, as well as the safety of our community.
seriously? says
You may think you know the facts but you do not.
kristin says
Please check out the Harford county weather watch fb page & the North Harford School zone fb page. The weather report was spot on for my area over 5 inches of snow. And take a look at what bus drivers had to deal with on the other page.
Just a thought... says
I was also surprised that HCPS didn’t delay school to assess the early morning weather, especially since middle and high schools so early. Instead of dismissing early, I wonder if it would have been a better idea to keep kids in school, where it was a safe, and give the county time to get the roads cleared and the storms to stop.
Concerned says
I wrk for HCPS they should have atleast did a 2hr delay yesterday. But it was smart closing them early as the roads were still a mess towards normal dismissal. Ohh and just to update the list the one person had for snow days. They only have April 15 and 16th left to use so the last day of school is June 13th
Say It Ain't So says
Create a North Harford zone? Stupid idea! Kids in Darlington go to Havre de Grace. Fallston has kids who live in Jarretsville. Southampton has kids who live north. What about the teachers who live in PA?
Baltimore County would get rid of the Hereford zone in a minute if they could?
Trying hard not to give up says
They shouldn’t waste any time (and especially money!) re-examining the “northern zone” issue yet again. Just dig out the report from the last time that concluded it would not work in Harford County. As in the example stated above, because of redistricting students from Jarrettsville are zoned for Fallston, and that is the same for many other schools. Where would the magic line specifying north vs south be drawn? Would the students who live in the ‘north’ have an excused absence regardless which school they’re zoned for? What about the the students who go to Tech or one of the magnet programs? Do they get to stay home if the weather is bad? Just think what days like that would do to the almighty attendance goals we are mandated to acheive? Half the school absent? Numbers would plummet and there goes your attendance percentages and satisfying state goals.
sma mom says
1. I am glad that my son was dropped off and I did not have to leave work to pick him up or find someone. I was not concerned that my son did not know what should happened, but more that HCPS not keep their promise to drop him off at an intersection near my house in North Harford
2. I would have had no problems and would have appreciated to keep my other kids longer at the school to make up the time they already missed and use the time useful in school till the roads were better.
3. How comes that it does not be counted as a snow day? My kids spend more time on the school bus than in school yesterday! Is that the new quality of teaching in HC?
4. What are we teaching our kids to make them go to school to school for a minute knowing that they close them early just to cheat the system of one used snow day??
5. For all big heads, I do not believe that the kids just can board the school bus after they have not been on the bus for 10 days or so. The ride has to be established again. My kids do not drive on their own, but there was something like that in the rules. Also, some of the kids are going working from school. What do you want to teach them. Just do not show up?
Soiled my Pantz says
WHAAA. WHAAA. WHAAAAAA. you all sound like a bunch of whining pussies. Your kids (and mine) should go to school IN THE SNOW, they should learn to be TOUGH, and learn that weather in OUT OF OUR CONTROL. WHAAAA WHAAAA.
Laughing at you says
apparently you don’t have kids and find yourself quite amusing……how sad
The Money Tree says
Maybe the people that live in the northern areas of the county and do not actually farm should pay a surtax for the extra costs and hassle in providing services to them and thier kids. Anybody living outside the development envelope that does not derive thier primary income from farming really needs to pay extra. I’d laugh my arse off listening to the moans and groans from the 10 acre people in thier cheap arse plastic mansions complain about fairness.
Laughing at you says
Should you pay extra taxes for more 911 calls and responses for your area?? We are pretty self reliant up here. You must really envy the area we live in to be so hateful. We pay plenty of taxes and we are all upset about the new rain tax since it will really hurt us. We don’t get many county services up here, life Sherriffs since most of the roads are state. We, don’t get county plows and our first responders are ALL volunteers. Seems to me like you wanted to live in the country and just couldn’t cut it. Please limit your posts to something that you actually have knowledge about and leave us hard working farm folks alone.
The Money Tree says
I live in Fallston so your mindset is way off. I live down a dead end road so mine is about the last road plowed but that’s the choice I made and I like it. I don’t call the county demanding somebody do something because it’s understood there are some services that will not be equal outside the development envelope. If you expect not just equal services, but apparently extra-equal consideration and live in an outlying area then you need to pay for it.
Laughing at you says
LOL, We would never call the county since we know not to EVER expect anything from them except taxes….
Duck Farmer says
@the Money Tree
I believe you are commenting on this thread just to get a rise. McMansion vs. Farmers? Your bigotry is ridiculous. How do you even know which of us are farmers and which are white collar workers? I have the privilege of living on a 1/2 acre and raise a few small farm animals. Please enlighten me. What category does that place my family into – so I know what services you believe I am entitled to receive? Please tell me what this has to do with the administration making the mistake of not having a 2 hour delay? that’s right – NOTHING. Get a real argument together before spouting nonsense
The Money Tree says
Bigotry? LMAO. No better illustration of the hysterical than using that term in this context.
Duck Farmer says
@The Money Tree:
Definition of Bigotry: Bigotry is the state of mind of a bigot: someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats or views other people with fear, distrust, hatred, contempt, or intolerance on the basis of a person’s opinion, ethnicity, race, religion, national origin, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, disability, socioeconomic status, or other characteristics.
You were clearly comparing farmers to McMansion families – i.e. comparing socioeconomic statuses. That is the definition of bigotry. You should do an analysis of yourself… and get yourself in check
hmmm says
By your own definition then everyone is at some point in their life a bigot.
Tired Granny says
Betting that Money Tree has never been past Rt 440. Nice Job Duck Farmer!!!
Farts after nachos says
Complainers, something is never good.enough.
I’m pretty sure these are the same parents who send young kids to school with fruit in their lunch expecting a teacher to peel a whole orange for them, microwave frozen food. Fits in the catagory of those goobers that allow their kids to wear shorts and t shirt while waiting at a 10 degree outside temperature bus stop.
Teacher says
Being a career teacher, parent of HCPS students, and a product of HCPS, I can tell you that a North Harford zone will not work – too many magnet programs, including one in North Harford High School itself – where I live is one mile from the intersection of three different high school districts – so for the busses not to be able to run for students who live across the street from one another is rediculous…so if there was a North Harford zone, and go to Harf Tech, SMA or IB, you would have the day off, or a 2 hour delay..how would this work?? an excused absence from class?? attendance is important in these magnet programs…..and in my professional opinion .student drivers should not drive on possibly dangerous roads, that is the job of the parent – everyone dropped the ball on this storm, but it won’t be the last time…weather prediction is not an exact science and eventually your child leaves the school system and enters the working world where adult decisions will need to be made….get over yourselves
Teacher says
keep in mind as well if you live in the so called North Harford zone but went to school elsewhere and the NH area was dismissed early, what would happen? would your bus come and pick you up early and take you home? we have already studied this and even tried it once (remember busses pulling over on the side of 136 because they were already on the way and even had kids on board and then was delayed?) – we don’t always get the best of ideas from Balt Co…teachers know what I am referring to
J says
Tomback and Lawrence!
Duck Farmer says
@Teacher:
Then perhaps the decision makers should be consulting with officials in the northern area before making these types of decisions – rather than making decisions from your bedroom in Bel Air. Clearly reform is needed. If a “zone” is not the answer – then perhaps they should find a way that WILL work to avoid a crisis like this in the future.
hmmm says
Your use of the word “crisis” is a clear demonstration of part of the problem. There have been no reports of children or staff being hurt during this snow event, a few minor fender benders occurred, some extra time was spent on buses, and a bit of confusion on some bus routes. Was it inconvenient? Yes. Was it a crisis? No.
What “officials” from the Northern area of the county are you referring to? The transportation department of the school system already has people out on the roads in all parts of the county as early as 3:30am assessing the road conditions and making a recommendation to the Superintendent who makes the final decision. I trust the professionals who have many years of experience to make a judgement call on whether to delay school opening, close early or all day. Was this the right decision on this given day? Maybe not but I do not believe anyone could honestly accuse HCPS staff of intentional negligence in this situation as your reference to making decisions from a bedroom in Bel Air certainly implies.
Tired Granny says
Obviously you did not have a child or someone you love out on the road up here. Perhaps you might look at things differently if you had.
A 2 hhour delay to observe the road changes when all models were agreeing that this area was going to get wouldn’t have hurt anyone. We were off completely for what was just a dusting up here last week. Totally Insane, perhaps the county Government could be in touch with the Northern Precinct of the Sherriffs Office? It was Freezing rain at 6:45 am here, that should have set off alarms. I applaud Harford Christian for their smart decision, though the best and easiest decision is to keep yoiur child home insterasd of putting them in danger/
Duck Farmer says
I believe there is more to making a decision than having someone “drive on the roads at 330 am”. Reviewing weather forecasts should be part of the assessment process. If Harford County Government announced liberal leave in affect, Cecil Co. 2 hr. Delay, Southeastern District 2 hr. Delay, Hereford Zone 2 hr. Delay…. the answer isn’t rocket science. It’s common sense. Doesn’t matter who made the decision… they screwed up and are afraid to admit it
Not a crisis?? Was your child’s bus in a ditch leaning sideways with some students encouraging others to “rock it until it flips over”?? Did your child evacuate from the bus, stand in the white out conditions so the truck could tow them back on the road? 2.5 hours later after getting home… I would say that was a crisis. We were all LUCKY it wasn’t worse. A child does not have to die to make a situation a crisis. Let’s fix this before it happens again with a worse outcome.
Country Girl says
My guess is most of the people arguing against the Northern Zone, aren’t from these areas and have zero clue as to the roads, temps & weather conditions that happen here in the winter. If you have never lived in this environment, you have no business talking. People out here are used to driving in bad weather. Come take a drive up here in the middle of a snow storm and then talk. A lot of these roads are narrow, hilly & windy. I have a 4WD and it was tough to see the sides of the roads yesterday & saw several cars in ditches for that reason. Now put a large bus out in these conditions (which I personally saw a bus load of kids sliding ON THE WAY TO SCHOOL)! Safety of our kids as well as the bus drivers is foremost. This is common sense to split the northern zone and it can be done. You can close by schools in those areas as well as cancel bus routes that pick up for magnet schools. I lived in Abingdon many years back, and couldn’t understand why my kids were home when we had nothing on the ground. So I have seen both sides to this coin.
The Money Tree says
If you’re afraid of narrow, hilly windy roads then you shouldn’t have moved out there. If you think it’s dangerous for your kids you shouldn’t have moved out there. If you think you need extra accomodation because of where you live then you ought to pay for it. There’s a tradeoff that you accepted so live with it.
Tired Granny says
We pay the same taxes as you, plus a flush tax. We know that we chose to raise our children in a more difficult environment and we accept that. WE also know that while y’all were so fogged in that schools were opened two hours late, we could see clearly. there is a difference up here. We pay taxes for services that we never see up here and do so to raise our children in a better environment. We have the right to expect that the School Board that our taxes also fund, sets our childrens safety as much as yours. IF you really want to stand behind your insults to us, I hope to see you rising through the North Harford area during the next storm.
Duck Farmer says
@the money tree.
Your heated immature comments are not even debate worthy. Hilly windy roads having nothing to do with the failure of the HCPS to have a 2 hour delay yesterday for SNOW. I mean really? These debates are such nonsense. Money Tree – in what area do you live?
The Money Tree says
Up 152 towards Jarrettesville in Fallston. First of all I didn’t whine about the hilly, windy roads as that was used in an attempt to dramatize the devastation of living in the outback with wild animals and brush.
Your missing the point. These people either want the school schedule completely driven by the furthest point north or they want to separate from the rest of the school district. First of all nobody died or even came close – was there inconvenience? It sounds like it but hey, it snowed, we have a beauracracy and that normally leads to a cluster if anything outside the norm occurs. I have no problem with a separate system…really no problem with having the school schedule revolve around the one kid that lives on the PA/MD line. That sounds swell…stay in school until August for all I care, but if you think you need a separate schedule and it results in additional costs then pay for it over and above what the rest of us already pay. Let’s not pretend this is a bunch of farmers kids either.
Duck Farmer says
@the Money Tree
perhaps you should re- Read what you wrote: “If you’re afraid of narrow, hilly windy roads then you shouldn’t have moved out there.”
As a parent I don’t care which solution we use as a community. Bottom line is that the Northern part of the county was not consulted before making this call. I think they need to start taking these conditions into consideration before making the final call. Were any lives lost? are you serious? Do we need to lose the life of a child or an adult before making changes for the better? No – I think not. Let’s fix this problem BEFORE we have a crisis on our hands. As the parent of a child who was stranded for over 2 hours in the snow with the bus tipping sideways – I take offense to your remarks – as you clearly were not affected by what happened yesterday. Fallston is a completely different world when it comes to weather on most days. Even southern Jarrettsville can be different. I have lived here for 30 years and gone to school in this District. WE need to make some changes.
Duck Farmer says
and for the record – a teacher told me that the kids have a final school date and cannot go to school past that date regardless of how many days are missed. The children would not go to school until August. Please.
Having a 2 hour delay does NOT cost the tax payers any more money than going a full day. So your argument is moot.
All we asked for was a 2 hour delay to help make the decision. No cost No crisis. Just flat out common sense.
The Money Tree says
Gosh sounds to me we need to build new schools to accomodate your needs…costs be damned because it really is all about you.
Duck Farmer says
New schools? WTH are you talking about?
What part of a TWO HOUR DELAY are you not getting? Perhaps you are missing the point of this thread altogether. You clearly have issues. Most of them obviously related to attention deficit.
Farts after nachos says
If you need extra help, then you won’t mind opening your wallet to pay for dry to the pavement roads up there in North Harford during a small snow storm.
Tired Granny says
If it was such a small snowstorm, why did Harford County Employees have Liberal Leave???
DA says
The county government (non essential employees) always have.liberal leave policy in effect, its a policy. You don’t like it? Vote to change it.
Harford county govt. and Harford County Public Schools are almost seperate entities. HCPS has its own “stuff” and employees to keep the “wheel greased” so to say. They have dump trucks with snow plows that have HCPS logo on the side, not the Harford County Seal.
hmmm says
Do you really think this was anything more than a small snow event? Where is your perspective?
Tired Granny says
@hmmmmm Certainly farther North then yours!!! @ DA. Voting to change something does nothing for those in danger yesterday and do those plows also take care of the back roads up here?? If the powers that be thought the situation was bad enough to offer Liberal leave, the HCPS could have allowed a 2 hour delay. We are not asking for new schools, just the right to keep our children safe.
Duck Farmer says
@Farts after Nanchos – your name is cracking me up.
Tired Granny says
Well Said!!! I would have loved to see these folks trying to manage up here yeasterday!!!
Concerned Citizen says
Exactly my point. I lived in Street for several years and was absolutely amazed with how severe the winter weather can be. I have been in totally white-out conditions, caused by the wind blowing across the openness of the area. Unless you have lived there (and not just driven through) you do not know what you are talking about. I was raised in Harford County and also a product of HCPS. We are all smart people here (for the most part) and can figure out a way to make the northern zone idea work.
Tired Granny says
They really have no clue and it is sad to see their nastiness when we should be worried about Everyone’s safety!!
Concerned Citizen says
Agreed.
Mandarin says
Yeah, let’s waste tax payer dollars for new study of a topic that was already studied years ago. The last study found that this proposed zone would not work and wasn’t needed. Guess what a new study will find? That it won’t work and isn’t needed.
School Bus Driver says
Who’s got time to figure out all this personalized chauffeur schedule? I quit this bitch.
most bus drivers are awesome says
Good! You obviously don’t take your job seriously and the children will be better off without you as a bus driver.
Bus Driver 2 says
Tired Granny says
Instead of Insulting each other, and showing off how SARCASTIC we can be, how about finding a solution to the Dangers that the Children, Bus Drivers, Support Employees and Teachers were exposed to yesterday. There is a definitive difference in the weather in the North Harford Area, much like the Hereford Zone. If Harford county is too Stupid to understand this, Mr. Shrodes is correct, we need to mobilize and get the point to the School Board. I, for one didn’t send my grandkids to North Harford Elementary School yesterday. We had freezing rain 20 minutes before ther bus was due to arrive and I had more sense then to risk their lives. It is ultimately “MY” job, not Harford County’s to keep them safe. Their absense note had loisted as an excuse, “refused to put this Child’s life in danger”. Call, e-mail, and support the chance to make this County Safer for the Children.
P.S. Mandarin, you apparently have never been to the north Harford Area, you should go for a ride next storm and try to rationalize your comment AFTER you have seen what we live with. It is our choice to live in the Country and this is a price to be paid, but we really do have a different weather situation then the rest of the county.
PPS, I want to know why i the weather was so bad that Harford county employees were put on Liberal leave,that the School board did not do a 2 hour delay to see how bad things were goiing to get???
The Money Tree says
If there are folks in the county that want some form of special accommodation then fine they can have it and they can pay the costs to maintain a separate system over and above whatever current costs are. That means the cost of extra buses, maintanence, coordination including administrative costs to update and rearrange existing snow day scheduling, etc. Fine…let’s do it but anybody in this new zone pays extra fees.
Tired Granny says
It does not mean separate busses. We already have that. It would be nice if you actually posted about something that you have knowledge of. The NORTH HARFORD SCHOOLS are amazing and the reason that many of us choose the trade off, to give our children a great opportunity. Sorry, Mr. Craig, but your comments don’t impress those of use who live in the “North Harford Zone”
The Money Tree says
Sure it would. When your kids end up with more snow days than the “southern” kids then unless you take them to school on the make up days the buses have to run and that’s not to mention you paying the salaries of the teachers that are now working beyond their contracted days to accomodate your schedule, and continuing to cool or heat, provide lunchroom attendants, etc., etc. Of course the teachers might not feel like working beyond thier contracted days at straight costs – if I were them I’d sock it to you at least charging double time for the extra couple days.
Duck Farmer says
How does Hereford Zone pull this off if it is so impossible? They seem to manage fine.
If not a “zone” – then why not let someone in the Northern area make the call for a delay or closing. Seems like a perfect solution to the problem. No changes other than what is actually needed.
The Money Tree says
My guess would be they have schools dedicated to only those kids in the zone. That is not the way Harford designed or built their schools so you’d have a heck of a time rebalancing/recreating the school districts.
sma mom says
Wait. There is no sarcasm on this. But is that not their job to do so? We pay them 8 hours of work and not by job lists. So, why should that cost more money to do the job they are hired for? If an administrator cannot handle it then let that person go and get someone who is more creative and capable. Btw, most of the people do not complain that school could get longer. It is just a question of planning not to hop on the plane at the first day of vacation. Safety should always be first and should not be compromised by a few who complain of inconvenience.
Tired Granny says
Really well said. I know several employees in the North Harford area and all of them would have rather been home and had their kids safely home with them yeaterday. Sad, though how nasty some of these people feel they have to be.
hmmm says
Now who is being sarcastic, nasty, and insulting – calling the rest of Harford County “Stupid?”
Tired Granny says
Obviously you do NOT have the Children’s best interest at heart., which is sad. FYI, if they didn’t pay the lunchroom attendants and didn’t have the schools open, on the bad days.it would kind of even out. I don’t need to get into this with you. I am willing to bet that my tax dollart pay for much more in your area,(whatever that area is), then yours pay for in North Harford. Is their some reason why you HATE Children?? FYI you have no idea how much the Teachers up here love the kids in their classrooms. I am quite certain that most of them would put the kids, and their own safety far above your pettiness.
The Money Tree says
Hate children? Don’t hate children, kinda hate spoiled self-indulgent adults. Already said to go ahead and create your own schedules but any costs should be born by the people with children in the new district and that’s what you hate isn’t it. You folks of course will be all for it until somebody reminds you that it will cost a bunch more money and then mums the word, eh?
well... says
It seems somewhat puerile to propose residents of a different part of the county should pay more for their safety. Leave the county as one zone and simply understand that folks in the southern sections – particularly those that make these decisions – need to take into consideration that other parts of the county may experience different weather conditions than what exist outside your window. Also, as a single zone, the areas with the most difficult conditions will wag the entire zone – be they in the north or south. Some will always complain that the conditions (where they are) didn’t warrant a late, early or off day, but that can’t be avoided when we’re all in it together.
Duck Farmer says
Your idea in theory is great. However – this idea has yet to work. That’s why there is such an uproar over this.
well... says
Historically it works fine when those making the call are fully informed about the current and impending conditions in all the areas they are responsible for. They certainly have access to more in-depth data than I when it comes to information from officials in neighboring counties which are seeing the weather that is heading our way as well as the county emergency management officials and their weather prediction/current conditions access. The only point I was making is that if the whole county goes the same way, the area which is seeing the worst weather and erring on the side of caution should be the deciding factors – not whether we can get them in long enough to avoid another make-up day and that it’s only raining outside my window.
Duck Farmer says
Historically it worked fine until Terri Kranefeld left.
your showing your lack of knowlwdge says
Ms Kranefeld had no part in making decisions about delays or closing of schools. She simply delivered the message.
Duck Farmer says
I cannot get over the childish comments on this thread. 1.) if you did not have snow at your house yesterday – you have no business even commenting in my opinion. 2.) All TV and radio stations clearly indicated that the northern part of the county would QUICKLY turn to inclement weather. Key word here – “QUICKLY”. We were given a warning (several in fact) in ADVANCE of making the call to DELAY schools. 3.) Having 2 children in the HCPS system both in middle and high school – I NEVER complain if the schools are dismissed or delayed due to bad weather. Better safe than sorry. 4.) This is EXACTLY why the Northern end of the county would like to have a specific zone – so that people who only saw rain yesterday can send their kids to school.
I would LOVE to know how many people commenting on this thread obnoxiously actually saw the snow and experienced the stress that happened yesterday? My guess – not many.
Brian says
Why are we acting like this is a new problem? This as been a problem since Councilman Shodes was in school in the North Harford area. This is just the first time that this generation of parents have had to experience this, that is why this is now a big problem. Let me spell this out for those of you that are clueless: Harford County DOES NOT CARE about those of us living north of Forest HIll. They never have, they never will, and if they didn’t create a “Norht Harford Zone” 40 years ago when less of the student population was in the area, why would they do it now when over 30% of the student live in the area? Oh that’s right, you all and your kids are more important than the families and children that lived there before you. Yes they should have closed, yes once they were there they should have kept them there, but to think this is going to change now is a pipe dream and nothing more.
Same day, different toilet says
I doubt a “North Harford Zone” will work. If you see how bad the confused, very unprepared, and disorganized bus schedule/routes are when every school is working together on the same page.. Just imagine how many angry feet stomping “Me first” parent’s there will be when their kid’s at multiple Magnet programs close early, start late, etc. etc. Then you’ll have a fresh batch of complaint’s coming from “How come North Harford has no school but I95 corridor does?” followed by another 100 comments or so on different social media platforms turned into personal complaint centers.
I’m really surprised some “Social justice” rally to have HCPS pick up every student from a front door hasn’t happened. “If your Magnet school kid gets dropped off at home, so will every other kid.” LOL
Don’t worry, exaggerated hysteria for something that normal that occurs mainly ever year (SNOW) always happens. Just wait until tomorrow, it will be more of the same, haven’t learned how to drive in 5 years since moving here, why start now? May as well make it like any other day, pull out your smart phone and not pay attention. Assholes.
Duck Farmer says
All of this can be resolved by consulting “all parties” when determining delays/closings. When in doubt – 2 hour delay. We are asking to be consulted with decisions… not a whole lot to ask. There wouldn’t have been any hysteria if a 2 hour delay had happened. Let’s face it. The name of our County is “Harford County” not “Bel Air County”
The Money Tree says
Belair, Abingdon, etc. is the population center. Shouldn’t be a surprise that conditions there hold more sway. Choosing to live in more isolated or outlying areas carries both additional reward and risk. Deal with it.
marginalizing your own opinions... says
You’re right Money Tree. There are more kids in Belair, Abingdon, etc. so those areas should dictate the closing/late/early decisions. So what if a bunch of kids north or west of the center of the Universe get hurt or killed in a bus crash… it’s their own fault for living out there, right? A few injuries or casualties of a few are a small price to pay to avoid make-up days for the many.
The Money Tree says
There is another option which seems lost on the government androids. You could actually go outside, look at the ground and make your own determination. You know have a judgement, act like an adult and protect your own kids.
Duck Farmer says
@Money Tree: Great idea. We can make our school system anarchy and just make our own decisions and save the tax funded salaries of those who are making these decisions now! Woo Hoo. You are brilliant! Please run for office so we can all run out and NOT vote for you.
The Money Tree says
Bet the ducklings never make it the duck stage.
Tired Granny says
Hey Money Tree……. North Harford pays taxes that support your paid Firefighters, Emt’s etc. get over it. If you don’t think it’s different up here, take a ride up, we can show your poor uneducated self what it means to live in the country. Yes this is a choice that we make. We live in an area that is underserved and love it. All we are asking for is somne common sense when it copmes to the safety of our children. We are NOT asking that you pay for it. Look at the stats, the 911 responses are far higher in Bel Air/Abingdon, you do not hear us complaining. This is a Huge County and we should all be fighting for the future of this county. I am sorry but you are an ASS!!!
Same day, different toilet says
Tell me specifically, which Firefighting company is paid in Harford County? Sounds like you’re spewing bullshit to me. EMS is paid at all fire companies as I understand.
911 responses are “far higher” because in the Bel Air “region” there are “far more” calls for service because there are “far more people” than at the PA/MD line.
hmmm says
Who are the “all parties” you what consulted?
Joy says
I’m pretty sure that Baltimore County did away with the Hereford zone because it never really solved the issue. Yesterday was unfortunate but every parent does have the choice to not put their kid on the bus. Most parents will be given the benefit of the doubt in such cases, most of the time. It’s time to start thinking for ourselves and not wait for someone else (i.e., the government entities) to make decisions for us. That’s what’s got us in the heap o’mess in this state as it is.
Zone Dweller says
Joy- Hereford Zone was two hours late yesterday and eventually closed. They have not done away with it yet….
Joy says
I stand corrected, the BC Hereford zone weather status does indeed still exist. http://www.bcps.org/schools/hereford_zone.html
Duck Farmer says
As I am sure you being an arrogant jerk has its benefits and rewards. Looks like that is working well for you.
Cassandra says
Does anyone else think that Money Tree is David Craig trying to defend HCSP’s mistake??? I could be wrong……but….
HarfordResident says
This is pretty funny. My spouse grew up in NY state. They were buried in snow pretty often and rarely did the schools close. Spouse thinks were collectively pretty “wimpy” down here!
agreed says
That is a reflection of the nanny state Maryland has become. It even afflicts conservatives depending on the issue that they believe is affecting them.
Mr. Plow says
It is pretty funny, but it’s pretty sad. I’ve never had a mishap in snow since even before my first front wheel drive car purchase in the early eighties. Unfortunately 90% of the drivers around here can’t drive a straight stretch of dry pavement in the middle of a sunny day without becoming a menace to other drivers. Don’t think for one minute that a little snow or ice will stop them from texting, phone talking, eating, driving just as fast as usual, tail-gating or playing with themselves when they’re all convinced they’re as talented as Mario Andretti.
Jovita says
I see a lot of interesting articles on your page. You have to
spend a lot of time writing, i know how to save you a lot of time, there is a tool that creates unique, SEO friendly posts in couple of seconds, just type in google – laranita’s free content source