From Harford Campaign for Liberty:
May 28, 2013
7 pm – 9 pm
Knights of Columbus Hall
23 Newport Drive
Forest Hill, Maryland
FED UP with Plan Maryland, the Septic Bill, the Rain Water Tax, the Tier Map, and all the other unfunded mandates being thrown at us by the EPA and Annapolis?
TIRED of having your wallet picked to fund an ever growing list of scientifically questionable environmental initiatives?
WONDERING what successes other states have had in the fight against these abuses?
Do you ever ask, “Is there is another way”?
There is another way! Mr. Chip MacLeod, an attorney representing the Clean Chesapeake Coalition www.cleanchesapeakecoalition.org will speak on efforts that this seven county organization is putting forward to fight these mandates without neglecting real environmental issues.
Also on the agenda:
You. Bring your ideas to the open mike!
An update on the nullification efforts in Cecil, Harford, and Carroll Counties. What do they mean?
An opportunity to connect with other patriots.
Free Admission
Cash bar available.
For more info, visit www.harfordliberty.org.
I will have to go to that meeting. Free admission! Drinks!(for money, after all nothing is free). And, best of all, a lawyer who will tell us how to have a clean bay for no money. However, people attending the meeting should bring their ideas because… well because no one hosting this meeting has any. It is like being invited to a meeting on how to eat all you want and still lose weight.
Sorry you feel that way, Citizen. Hopefully the link to the coalition’s website will be activated (I have emailed Dagger admin regarding this) and you can see for yourself the work that they are doing. Better yet, come to our meeting and hear for yourself. Our meetings are well attended ( 70 or more every month) and you can usually find a few of your Harford County elected officials in the audience. I guess what I’m saying is that many find value in our ideas so why not give us a chance. The Rain Water Tax is an issue that is timely and thorny. Other states and counties are finding ways to combat these things. Shouldn’t we investigate those options?
Citizens, please bring ideas for these issues to the open mic:
The decline of oysters
The absence of underwater bay grasses
The ever-increasing Chesapeake Bay dead zone
We need good ideas, because right now the only thing that will help these is money to update sewage treatment plants, money to subsidize farmers to keep nutrient loaded run-off from going into the bay, money for remediation projects, money……..
I hate it when those dam scientists and their “high fallotin” ideas AND facts get in the way of us smart tea-baggers and our idears!
Shucks, I think I’ll move to a red state (I’d rather deal with those dams “twisters” than deal with these here Democrats in Maryland!) Yee Haa!
I’m sorry you feel that way. I’m even more sorry that you feel the need to treat a serious look at this issue with derision and scorn. The coalition’s goal is to achieve environmental stewardship in sound and responsible ways. Once again, I say come to the meeting and hear what the gentleman has to say. By the way, the correct spelling is “highfalutin”.
Thanks, Justin. I think your post represents you perfectly.
Sarcasm Judy. Maybe you missed that.
Nope. Didn’t miss it at all.
Because,
Believe me, Justin isn’t intelligent enough to be sarcastic. Don’t confuse people who share your beliefs with intelligent beings.
I do not plan to attend your meeting for several reasons. You use the words “having your pocket picked,” “fight these abuses,” and “find ways to combat these things.” If your meeting was being held to discuss the most cost effective ways we can keep the bay clean, I might have planned to attend, but your mind has already been made up. I know several people who earn a living providing us with fish, crabs, and oysters. Many like to boat on the bay. The bay is important to keeping many people employed. I can’t turn my back on these people.
But you have turned your back on the many taxpayers who are called to pay ever increasing taxes and fees to fix a problem using the wrong approach, an approach that has been shown to be ineffective. When the water flowing in to the bay from upstream is not polluted then let’s talk. Until then I’m not inclined to have Maryland single-handedly clean up the pollution of upstream states while they are doing little to nothing.
Citizen, Mr. MacLeod IS coming to discuss the most cost effective ways of cleaning up the bay. Now that the link is functioning you can go to the website and read about his organization.
This meeting should be held at the Conowingo Dam where the attendees can see firsthand the acre or so of garbage and debris that piles up against the upstream side (call ahead and make sure they haven’t cleaned it off recently)… and that’s just what’s floating on the surface. It’s disgusting and it’s shameful. I hate to think of what’s mixed in – used oil, antifreeze, pesticides, fertilizers, discarded condoms, needles, and drugs, basically anything you can imagine that someone wanted to get rid of. Drop it in the river and it floats away out of sight. We were stupid enough to swim in the river when I was a kid, but I wouldn’t touch it now. Pennsylvania and New York are major pollution sources and all dysfunctional Annapolis can think of is to tax Marylanders to try to clean it up. I see little hope for all the initiatives while our upstream neighbors continue to use the Susquehanna as a toilet and garbage dump.
I’m hoping the County Council will be sending someone from their ‘Task Force’ over to hear the gentleman speak, since they seemed to be so passionately against the rainwater tax. It’s easy to say you don’t like new taxes, but not so easy to come up with new solutions…
Why do we always frame the question in terms of new taxes or not new taxes? Isn’t the real question how we spend the already high taxes that are collected coupled with the efficiency and effectiveness of government?
Judy, you are correct. If government wants to spend more on the bay then spend less elsewhere. And cut waste.
And what I’d really like to know is what specifically has been and is being done with all the money they currently receive that was supposedly “ear marked” for bay cleanup. Wouldn’t that be a good place to start? What are YOU doing now? Also – look at existing environmental regulations and see what is and is not being enforced. Sadly, you will find a very thick stack of regulations and enforcement that is non-existent in MD. One or the other should be scrapped and re-worked – but there is no talk of that from Annapolis. I guess it’s just easier to raise a tax and move on, regardless if it helps in any way.
Liberty, You’ll be happy to know that all the council members and the County Executive were invited to attend or send representatives to this meeting.
An attorney speaking on how to best clean up the environment.
What’s next months meeting, a scientist giving out free legal advice?
Mr./Mrs./Ms./Miss Peggy Sue
Sir, Ma’am
A little perspective if you will
So far the State of Virginia has successfully sued the EPA over it’s stormwater runnoff pollution position. So has the Los Angeles Flood Control district, and the National Association of Home Builders. The PA farm bureau is currently in litigation with the EPA over the issue.
A recent study from the University of Delaware concluded that the EPA methods were wrong.
EPA dropped charges against a farmer in WV, hoping to avoid further litigation.
Does anyone else see a pattern here, or is there a leak in the collective tin foil?
John P. Mallamo
Interesting perspective.
Why do you hate having a cleaner bay?
Mr./Mrs./Ms./Miss/ Peggy Sue
Sir, Ma’am
Nobody doesn’t want a “cleaner bay”, neither do I want what appears to be a red herring from you. Nor do I have any desire to fund an effort that will never have enough money, or that will culminate in results that are good enough. The clean the bay effort is just such an initiative.
John P. Mallamo
Mr./Mrs./Ms./Miss/ John P. Mallamo
Sir, Ma’am
How are these lawsuits helping clean the bay?
Peggy Sue
Mr./Mrs./Ms./Miss Peggy Sue
Sir, Ma’am
First it is important to understand how we got to this point. Seems like a group sued the EPA for failing to properly discharge their duties under the Clean Water Act. Could have been the American Canoe Association with others filing an Amicus brief. Litigation seems to be the way that this works. Interesting to note that the Chesapeake Bay Foundation proudly states that they will achieve their goals by advocating, educating and litigating and annouce that if they do not get their way, they will be back in court.
After some time the EPA came up with their Total Maximum Daily Loads, and in a seperate event President Obama recognized the Chesapeake Bay as a National Treasure. The EPA provided TMDLs to Bay States and other states that affect the Bay. The goal is to reduce nutrients and sediment by set amounts.
Now to how does litigation against the EPA help clean the Bay. The EPA and their efforts to clean the bay were reviewed by the National Academy of Science. (Good read for those who have the time. ) That group gave a less than ringing endorsement fo the program. More recently, there was an article in the Baltimore Sun about the health of the Bay. Seems scientist are puzzled by what is happening in the Bay, particulary the lack of response to all the efforts to clean it up. In fact, in some measurements, it seems the bay might be worse off today than when monitoring efforts first started. Moreover, the National Academy of Science report suggested that it would take 10-20 years to see results from any effort. What does that mean to present efforts. Concisely, every dollar wasted on junk science is a dollar that is not available for real solutions.
It is my belief that the EPA has issued standards that are not based on good science. Further, it is my belief that the Governor of Maryland and the Maryland Department of Environment have exacerbated the situation with rules on septic systems and pollution determinations, which have also reduced available funding for real solutions.
John P. Mallamo
Dear Peggy Sue,
Mr. Mallamo is correct in his claims and this is why we are bringing Mr. MacLeod in to speak to concerned citizens. Please look at the coalition’s website. The link is in the body of the announcement and is now functioning. If you take the time to investigate this group you will see that they are indeed interested in ensuring a clean bay. But they also want to do so in a way that is scientifically and fiscally sound. Instead of hurling snide invective at people that are suggesting a look at reasonable alternatives, why not open your mind and come hear what the gentleman has to say? The County Council has decided to appoint a task force to investigate alternatives. Seems to me that we’re helping that process along by providing some folks that are already working on this problem.
The task force is made up of politically appointed people. Sorry but your claim of “we are here from the government to help you” might be just what you are looking for but it hasn’t worked yet but hey maybe your lawyer spokesmodel from the government can convince the 70 people on how he is going to save the bay by protecting the people who pollute it.
As a side note
Mr./Mrs./Ms./Miss/ Vseitz
Sir, Ma’am
Mr. MacLeod isn’t even listed as a member on that website.
What’s up with that?
Peggy Sue,
Why are you so in favor of solutions that aren’t working and why are you so insistent that you have all of the answers and why are you so sure that any idea anyone else has must be wrong because it isn’t your idea? You aren’t 3 years old. Stop acting like it.
Where did I claim to support solutions that aren’t working? Tell us all how are the lawsuit solutions you support working out for the bay?
Peggy Sue,
Do not be alarmed. The coalition is comprised of 7 member counties. They are represented by Mr. MacLeod. I’m not sure why this is so disturbing to you. You seem to think that pointing this out discredits their entire enterprise. Really, you are becoming very tiresome. If you want to know more, then come to the meeting. If you want to create false arguments then enjoy yourself and remain ignorant. I have more productive things to do.
As a moderate, and after having examined fully the website of the Clean Chesapeake Coalition, I admit to being apprehensive about the real value of a presentation by Mr. MacLeod. The
The Coalition’s leadership (and likely membership) is dominated by individuals/political leaders from Carroll, Frederick, Cecil, Alleghany, Kent, Caroline, and Dorchester Counties–none of which could ever be regarded as being anywhere near the middle when it comes to politics. I’d consider attending a presentation that included both Mr. MacLeod and a representative from the Chesapeake Bay Foundation.