From Harford County Public Schools:
To kick off the year-long school system budget development process, Superintendent of Schools Robert M. Tomback will hold two Budget Hearings. The first will take place on Thursday, November 29, at 5:30 p.m. in the auditorium of Patterson Mill High School (85 Patterson Mill Road, Bel Air) and the second on Thursday, December 6, at 5:30 p.m. in the assembly room of the Center for Educational Opportunity (253 Paradise Road, Aberdeen).
The hearings will include a brief presentation on the process and timeline used to develop the school system budget. The Superintendent’s FY14 Operating Budget has not yet been developed.
The public is invited to attend to provide input and share what they feel is important for consideration as the Superintendent begins to prepare his proposed operating budget for the 2013-14 school year. Those who are not able to attend are encouraged to submit suggestions and comments to Budget@hcps.org.
Please include a transition to new and better leadership for HCPS in the budget.
Let the games begin…..again. I would like since the county employees will be receiving a 4% increase, that would be a good starting place for the teacher’s pay this year.
In your dreams. Seriously that amount of increase is rare in the private sector and would certainly indicate a level of excellence in performance which we know doesn’t hold for a huge percentage of teachers. If you’re great at what you do maybe; if not, you don’t deserve a raise at all.
I love how people at the local level are fighting over scraps while the true wastes of money are not approached.
Every teacher and county worker in America could have a 4% raise(and should) if we cleaned up things at the national level.
The U.S. borrows a winning powerball ticket every 3 hours.
8 winning half billion dollar tickets per day.
How’s that for perspective.
Money Tree,
I’d like to know where you live! My husband received an increase, which was well over 4% last fiscal year. Plus, his company matches the first 5% of his contributions to his 401K. But then again, he is a hard worker, which may account for his pay increase and lack of other’s pay increases in the private sector.
Glad to see your husband is doing so well and that you won’t be “struggling to make ends meet”.
It is thanks to him that we are able to make ends meet. Obviously you are struggling. The McDonald’s near me is hiring.
Wow, i really hope you are not an educator of any capacity. Your arrogant. attitude and personal insultsreally show who you are.
Coming from the man who named himself “Ron Jerermy’s Big Tool”
Sorry, it’s not going to happen. What most of the teachers don’t seem to realize, especially Burbey (and despite what he thinks or wishes, all his idiotic postings and rants on here prior to him being elected president of the HCEA will stick with him), is that you guys burned a lot of bridges with the people holding the purse strings (i.e. David Craig and the County Council) over the past year.
While I hope I’m wrong since my wife is a teacher and we definitely need the additional income I don’t foresee raises or steps coming to HCPS in the next 2 years unless there is a significant increase in county revenue.
What I don’t understand is that there has been a county surplus for the past two years, which to me seems very strange since we are in such economic turmoil.
If you’re going to be unrealistic, why not demand 20% and work-to-rule until Burbey gets it for you?
Well, let’s see how good Burbey is. Frankly, I don’t think he is that good. Not by a wide margin.
BURBEY
PLEASE PLEASE DO SOMEHTING FOR THE TEACHERS THIS YEAR!!
ALSO MAKE SURE OUR ESTEEMED SUPERINTENDENT GETS OUR HURRICANE SANDY DAYS WHICH WERE A STATE OF EMERGENCY WAIVED!!
HAVE NOT SEEN OR HEARD MUCH FROM YOU SINCE YOU GOT YOUR NEW OFFICE.
WE HEARD MORE FROM YOUR POSTS ON HERE.
PLEASE DO NOT LET US DOWN-JUST DO WHAT YOU PROMISED AND DO NOT MAKE EXCUSES!!
GOOD LUCK AND WE HAVE FAITH IN YOU BURBEY11
Why waive the Hurricane Sandy days? Our children still need educated.
I agree. When we lost 2 days in the previous school year for hurricane damage, those days were not waived either. I though the whole point of being a teacher was “for the children”?
Teachers should take one for the sake of your kids?
How often do you work unpaid overtime?
Is every teacher expected to be a saint, martyr, and poverty avowed monk?
How about if you kick in and pay for them.
Unpaid Overtime?? Teachers are contracted to work a certain number of days. None of them worked during the hurricane closings. If the three days are waived, three days should come off the contract. Hourly employees in the system would lose three days pay.
If your job sucks, quit and find something else to do. Why do you people insist on constantly complaining and not pulling up your pants and doing something about YOURSELF? Someone else will fill your shoes in no time, it’s the cycle of employment.
The “school year” really warps the mindset of your employment. I work 365 days per year, what are you all complaining about?
Saying “we have to work second jobs to make ends meat” is another one of those “Find something else to do.” You people aren’t the only ones in this world who have to work two jobs. Give me a break. LOL
I work unpaid overtime everyday, as do many other salaried employees.
These people need to quit their jobs if they are this disappointed and upset constantly.
Taxpayer, you don’t think any teachers worked during the hurricane days? They may not have been physically in the building in front of kids, but trust and believe there were teachers grading papers and planning lessons. This happens every weekend and every evening as well. Teachers go into the job knowing this is part of it. It’s the disrespect and assumption that our job is easy that gets to us.
Just Saying – it is rather amusing. Every snow day, or hurricane day for that matter, my facebook feed blows up with parents complaining that they need to get their kids out of the house. Many of these are stay-at-home moms. They can’t tolerate their children in the house for a day or two…imagine 30 children who aren’t yours EVERY DAY, and you actually have to teach them (you can’t babysit with an XBOX 360).
Teaching is not easy, not by a long shot.
However, I do buy the waiver argument…why waive the days? You are contracted to work a certain period of time, so you should work for those contracted hours. If you don’t work those contracted days, you are “stealing” tax dollars. So if we waive them, you should be docked the days from your paycheck.
Not a teacher attack – I am very supportive.
Reggie- I’m with you about the days. I have no problem fulfilling my contract. Just was responding to the typical lazy teacher comment made. Thanks for your support.
Burbey’s days of political pandering have paid off. Don’t expect much to happen now.
Teacherhcps are you talking about Burbey or Obama?
To all you that do not teach we were one of the only counties that did not waive the hurricane days last year. These did not affect the students at all, the teachers had to put in the extra days. Many teachers have jobs that start as soon as the school yearends or are taking graduate classes that are mandatory. Most teachers have to work during the summer to make ends meet. And for all you out there that say we get 2 months off -WE DO NOt GET PAID OVER THE SUMMER. Our contract only covers 9 and half months. Your children do not get slighted. Please support your teachers and stop criticizing!!!
Not criticizing teachers, just saying that if the contract says to work a number of days, work them. Many people who could not go to work during the hurricane lost pay.
This is nothing against the teachers. The school schedule says we need 180 days of teaching. If the job can be done in 177, why not do that every year and save the taxpayers money?
9 1/2 months with +40,000 dollars starting salary sounds good to me.
I don’t know. 40,000 isn’t all that much, especially when you are required to start out with a Bachelor’s degree and then obtain a Master’s in a few years. I think I would prefer to work in the private sector and start out at nearly double that.
Psychologists, sociologists, history majors, and many other liberal arts majors start out at $40k and require a master’s degree to advance. Teaching isn’t about getting rich, its about having summers off, an easy college curriculm and a steady job with little fear of downsizing.
Hey Kharn,
“Psychologists, sociologists, history majors, and many other liberal arts majors start out at $40k and require a master’s degree to advance.” – Yes, this is true. However, Psychologists have a much higher salary rate with years of experience, as do sociologists. I have no idea what a person with a degree in history would do, except maybe work in retail sales or something.
“Teaching isn’t about getting rich, its about having summers off,” – And many other things.
“an easy college curriculum ” – It is not a curriculum I would excel at; nor is it a field I would excel at.
“and a steady job with little fear of downsizing.” – That is true. As is the steady pay increases they are supposed to get every year.
Where can a college kid start out at 80,000 a year?
Hey Ron…,
“Where can a college kid start out at 80,000 a year?” – Doctor, Lawyer, Nurse, Engineer, Computer sciences.
A doctor isn’t going to start at $80k out of college, he’ll start at $80k when he’s 28 years old after 6 years of post-graduate education and $250k+ in debt.
A lawyer spent 3 extra years getting a JD and probably owes $100k+ for those years alone.
Nurses, engineers and computer scientists can command around that number (I’d say you’re looking at $80k after bonuses and benefits, not base salary, for a fresh graduate), but you’re looking at much more intense fields, with longer hours, harder schooling and an intense focus on science/math. I bet your average high school math teacher couldn’t pass the Fundamentals of Engineering exam, but the RN could teach biology and chemistry. Maybe the computer teacher could code his way to a decent job, but at some point he’d burn out on Redbull and stop keeping up with the new kids, which would be time to find an easier job that has steady hours.
No one says they go into teaching for the money.
Hey Kharn,
Medical School and Law School are still considered college.
As for your opinions as to who can do what, well, they are just that, your opinion. My opinion is the average high school math teacher could pass the test, with the appropriate studying and preparation. Just like the average RN could come in and teach a class, with the appropriate training on how to deal with the kids.
As for why they go into teaching, there are numerous reasons.
Anyways, have a nice day.
It seems DJ Paul MC Money Mike is making some bullshit up.
Find me a job right now, a URL, a website link that advertises $80,000/per year that any post-college adult can apply/get.
I’m open to any field of any work, I want to see $80,000 salary, College education; you know, the typical Bachelors degree, and no experience required.
Why? Because DJ Paul MC Money Mike said he would rather make double that in the private field, as in comparing to the current Harford County Teacher Salary/requirements.
I’m calling you out son.
Hey Wuht,
“It seems DJ Paul MC Money Mike is making some bullshit up.” – I have made nothing up.
“Find me a job right now, a URL, a website link that advertises $80,000/per year that any post-college adult can apply/get.” – I already stated which jobs can get that salary. As for a job that any adult can get, I doubt there is any job in the world that any adult can get. Each job has specific duties and requirements that are applicable to different people.
“I’m open to any field of any work, I want to see $80,000 salary, College education; you know, the typical Bachelors degree, and no experience required.” – You are changing what I said. I never said typical bachelor’s degree. I said a doctor or a lawyer can easily get 80,000 starting out, as well as a nurse, an engineer, and a computer scientist.
“Why? Because DJ Paul MC Money Mike said he would rather make double that in the private field, as in comparing to the current Harford County Teacher Salary/requirements.” – I said, in my original post, ‘I think I would prefer to work in the private sector and start out at nearly double that.’ As you don’t know what my education is nor what my field is, you have no idea what my starting salary was or will be.
“I’m calling you out son.” – Call all you want. However, know what you are taling ablout before you callext time.
Paul MC:
Anyone with a bachelors should be able to pass the FE “the appropriate studying and preparation”, the difference is that the skills and knowledge required to pass the FE are not included in typical education degree classes. I could be a doctor, given 10+ years to study everything I’ve forgotten since undergrad, pass the MCAT, attend medical school and pass the boards, but that doesn’t mean I consider myself a doctor.
Calling lawyers and doctors the same as college graduates with bachelors degrees is deceitful and disingenuous. They are professions requiring post-graduate degrees with significant wash-out rates and difficult tests to pass before the person can practice.
Hey Kharn,
“Anyone with a bachelors should be able to pass the FE “the appropriate studying and preparation”, the difference is that the skills and knowledge required to pass the FE are not included in typical education degree classes.” – No, everyone should not be able to pass the FE with a bachelor’s degree. I would imagine it would be much easier for those with a math or science background. Like, maybe, some math and science teachers.
“I could be a doctor, given 10+ years to study everything I’ve forgotten since undergrad, pass the MCAT, attend medical school and pass the boards, but that doesn’t mean I consider myself a doctor.” – Of course, however, that is not what I meant. I meant taking time to actually prep and study for the test, not taking new classes.
“Calling lawyers and doctors the same as college graduates with bachelors degrees is deceitful and disingenuous.” – Are you saying they are not coleges?
“They are professions requiring post-graduate degrees with significant wash-out rates and difficult tests to pass before the person can practice.” – Yes, they do, but, don’t teachers have a test or tests to pass as well?
Look, I am not saying teaching is the toughest profession, nor am I saying it is the easiest. It takes a unique skill set, just like any other job. You may think anyone could do that job, I think that is a foolish notion.
Teachers are required to obtain a Master’s degree, which, is not an easy task. Some people seem to think that because it is a Master’s in teaching, it is easy to obtain. I disagree. I think it is very naive of you, or anyone else, to think that.
Paul MC,
Actually acquiring a Master’s Degree is easier than the Bachelor’s Degree from my own personal experience in the private sector. Let’s not act like its some insurmountable challenge.
Secondly, its on the taxpayer’s dime. These teachers who are required to get these master’s degrees get reimbursed by the county school system, and certainly can take their time to complete their graduate degree.
Hey Some,
“Actually acquiring a Master’s Degree is easier than the Bachelor’s Degree from my own personal experience in the private sector.” – Well, from my experience, and the experience of others, it is not easier.
“Let’s not act like its some insurmountable challenge.” – No one ever said it was insurmountable. Were it insurmountable, no one would have one.
“Secondly, its on the taxpayer’s dime.” – Not completely.
“These teachers who are required to get these master’s degrees get reimbursed by the county school system, and certainly can take their time to complete their graduate degree.” – They get some money for it, just as in the private sector, some companies offer financial assistance for college course work completed. Also, some teachers take their time getting the degree, others get the degree rather quickly.
Anyways, have a nice day.
Your contract pays you over 9.5 months, or as most in the field put it, ten months. But you do have the option of being paid over a 12-month period. Granted, some teachers to whom I have spoken have said that it doesn’t stretch all that well; but you do have the option.
Such an option no longer exists.
Teachers work very hard and have responsibilities that go beyond the teaching of students. However, their good work is sometimes overshadowed by the boobs they elect to run their Association. Ryan Burbey, if his posts on this site are any indication, is another liberal union man. As long as this type of leadership is in place, the good teachers will be lumped into the same category as those who probably should not be teaching. Every teacher can tell you who in their schools are good and those that aren’t. Yet, they are caught in an Association that considers all the same. That is a shame for many Harford County teachers. The good ones are grossly underpaid and the lousy ones are grossly overpaid. Too often the bad ones are strong Association supporters. I wish I had an answer for this situation.
Quit the union and defund the NEA. That will send a message to the BOE and public that you care more about education and the students than the liberal agenda of the union.
You may be surprised at the support you receive at the bargaining table.
Unfortunately there would be no bargaining table without the union.
People were getting screwed before unions existed. Perhaps the unions have become too large and corrupt but there is no doubt they did and still do at times serve the members.
Burbey can you fix that or just rant about it?
If you want to get rid of the bad teachers in schools- make it a more attractive, lucrative position for an intelligent, hard-working, well-educated person- then make the training better and more stringent- then make the evaluation process better and more effective. Make it harder to be tenured after just two years.
The irony is if you keep underpaying teachers and demonizing teaching as a profession as so many on here LOVE to do…fewer folks who could do a great job will be willing to tolerate the demands and conditions for compensation that is not just not competitive- why should they? ohhh- the EASE of the job??/ maybe the UNPAID SUMMERS OFF??? What young, talented person in their right mind would go into education these days? In my childhood adults, parents, the COMMUNITY RESPECTED teachers. Not anymore. In cultures which are highly successful in terms of TEST results, teacher autonomy and stringent training are practiced concepts. Get rid of the overhead waste and make it a valued position in society. In the Netherlands they don’t do standardized tests, they give teachers autonomy, and becoming a teacher is considered as respectable and valued as becoming a doctor. Yet here we place more value on professional atheletes….then wonder why our educational systems are failing.
so, in summary, no teachers’ unions and (a lot) less government involvement.
a swing and a miss
That all sounds great but this one darned thing is getting in the way of buying all that – we read; the public reads and we see teacher strikes and we hear teachers in and around our own communities. The last strike was in Chicago where teachers make six figures w/ the same union driven fat benefits and all that with 3 months off. The only thing between Harford and Chicago that’s different is perhaps a stronger union. In reading the teacher comments I generally don’t see much by way of professionalism at all. Work to rule, steps (which apparently are not considered raises by teachers even though it results in more money which by the way is a mindset from a parallel universe to nearly everyone else), raises, special payment for after hour involvement which they never admit to unless you challenge them, etc. There are no starving teachers. Public unions have been a scurge to taxpayers resulting in lessor quality of service from all government workers including teachers. Public unions promote mediocrity and do nothing but protect the incompetent. I have no problem respecting the profession when they lose the union and begin to stand on thier own merits as real professionals do.
We do stand on our own because Maryland does not allow us to strike, nor do they allow us to have unions. We are an association not a union. I’m pretty sure private organizations such as the NFL and MLB have unions that are stronger than ours. In addition, I do know many teachers who are struggling to make ends meet, especially when they have to factor in the cost of living vs. our wages. God forbid if a teacher has children to pay for! I would like to know where you get off saying that we make six figures. In fact Money Tree, I feel bad for you. Obviously you did not get a good education since you still can not spell “their” as well as “lesser” correctly. Maybe this is the reason you still can not make a decent wage in the private sector.
Seriously read for content or comprehension. I said Chicago teachers routinely make 6 figures – it was widely documented during the strike. So if you think my spelling isn’t so great I’d say comprehension matters more. Standing on merit means standing alone on merit. Your raises should be based upon performance..not steps, nor uniform salary increases. Call your union whatever you want but anybody who shouts “work to rule” is eyeball deep in union mindset. If it quacks like a duck it’s a duck.
Actually you did not use the word “routinely” in your first post. You also have to factor in the cost of living in Chicago versus the cost of living in the Baltimore-DC metro area. I think at this point you are just making comments now because you are mortified that someone called you out on poor spelling. I’m sorry that a teacher scarred you for life.
Teachers get very defensive these days. Doesn’t seem like there’s any good way to have a reasoned conversation about public unions. My issue as a taxpayer is reality; what it costs and what we as taxpayers get from those costs. It is true that given teachers limited work schedule (189 days, 7 hours per day as contracted) vs. the private sector, (238 days (avg), 8 hours per day) a 50K per year salary results in a much higher hourly wage for the teacher. The private sector worker would need to make 72K per year to achieve the same hourly rate as the 50K per year teacher. If teachers expect to make a fortune they shouldn’t have chosen a job that for all intents and purposes is part time. I’d say you folks don’t have it so bad.
Actually it is 190 days at 7.5 hours contracted; however, most teachers work about 10 hours each day + weekends. Plus, do not forget that we are required to work extra duty hours (for free) chaperoning various events. In addition, we are required to stay late in the evening for parent conferences a few times throughout the school year.
Why are you so sour, Money Tree? Seriously, what happened to you? I mean, did a teacher “steal” your spouse or your job? I pray that you do not have children receiving such this horrible, over-rated, expensive public education as you portray.
You’re right that number isn’t correct w/ the two personal days it’s actually 188 days. The contract is posted on the web and can easily be read by everyone and it includes a list of stipends for activities beyond the normal work day.
@Money Tree,
Where you are mistaken is that those afterschool activities you are referring to are voluntary. We are required to stay for the extra duties that I listed for NO EXTRA PAY!!! In addition, the contract that you are referring to online is THREE years behind in our pay scale. So, even if I have been with Harford County for 15 years, I am only getting paid for 12.
Obviously your reading comprehension is a little off as well since you are not able to read a contract correctly. We actually get 3 personal days; however, we can not use them at our leisure to go on vacation or do as we please. We have to REQUEST and wait for approval to use a personal day. Do you have to do that? In fact, do you work at all?
So requesting and getting approval makes the day any less a day you use for yourself? The only reason it’s set up like that is there are 30 kids sitting and waiting to be taught – if you call in half an hour before class it does present a logistical problem. It takes planning to make sure there’s a sub. We’re down to 187 then I guess. I only care that you lost steps if you’re a good teacher and I assume you are. If you aren’t then frankly only a union midge-minded dolt would delude themselves into believing they’re owned any increase at all.
I just don’t understand why some of Harford’s teachers believe the world revolves around them, here’s a fine example;
“We actually get 3 personal days; however, we can not use them at our leisure to go on vacation or do as we please. We have to REQUEST and wait for approval to use a personal day. Do you have to do that? In fact, do you work at all?”
I’m pretty sure everyone who works for the county has the same system of requesting the use of a personal day. HERP HERP HERP
Wow:
You also know your annual calendar far in advance, so planning vacations around Christmas, fall break, spring break, and the summer should be easy. Most employees work 230 or more days a year (5 days a week minus 10 holidays and 4 weeks of vacation), yet 180 days is too burdensome for teachers?
Hey Kharn,
Did you ever try to plan a vacation during these holidays? The prices for hotels, airfare, and gas always increase to a level that makes it unaffordable to take a family of 4 on vacation. If you don’t believe me, research it!
I am well aware of the cost of vacationing during the busy season, every family in America that values their children’s time in school pays those same inflated prices for limited resources, not just the teachers.
You have to decide for yourself how to balance between taking leave without pay, suffering a reputation hit for everyone at school knowing you used sick days, or waiting until school is out of session if you want to enjoy a vacation longer than the three personal days allow. Each has a price.
Chicago teachers were also protesting the change from a 5.5 hour to a 7 hour day…
We are getting the wrong idea about teaching when we make the job sound easy. There is nothing easy about it, in fact, few can do it. It is also wrong to think that most of our teachers aren’t professional-they are and have been. They are there no matter what they are paid or asked to do. I don’t like the union or association mentality of where everyone is equal. Sorry to the politically correct people and liberals. Some teachers, many, are good and work hard at school and home. They deserve better wages. On the other hand, there are some that don’t and aren’t good and shouldn’t be making what they are now. When the system allows one size to fit all, there will always be problems with salary. When a bad teacher is paid what a good teacher makes, or the other way around, that is wrong in my opinion. That is what the union or association mentality will demand. There are observations and evaluations that are in place involving more than one superior. Why can’t that be utilized to give superior teachers more money, and inferior ones less. It can be worked out.
Hi Wow,
Money Tree doesn’t work at all and just reads the Dagger and tries to piss people off all day. As someone called it before – a Cyber Troll. Always butting in about stuff they know nothing about. Needs to get a life for sure…
It works.
What is strange wuht or “whatever” your name is that there are people who graduate from college and make more. I personally know nurses who have only a two year degree and make over $70,000. I also know people who work on the private sector who came out of college at the age of 22 making over 80,000. In addition, my husband does not have a college degree and makes more than I do after years and years of working for Harford county. Maybe you should get some of your facts straight before you accuse us of being arrogant and self centered. And these other professionals do not have to request for personal days. They receive vacation time. Much different contractually speaking. But then again you seem to know everything. Just another reason why teaching in Harford county is a thankless job.
You know what is funny as hell? You teachers who come on here should know better than to troll with trolls. LOL
for people who deal with adolescent immature children all day, you would think they wouldn’t want to deal with adults of the same capacity in their leisure. It just goes to show who they really are.
Could someone show me on the salary scale where anyone in a classroom makes $80,000?
Assistant Principals? Yes.
Principals? Much more!
Positions of power at the board level? Oh Lord, yes.
Council Rock School District in PA currently has a top teacher salary over $106k/yr. The school district receives thousands of applicants for every opening.
It is a very affluent area without an Edgewood/Aberdeen corridor-equivalent (only 3% of their students receive free or reduced lunch); in PA most school districts are only 2-3 high schools, not county-wide like MD, and schools have a separate tax levy from the rest of the county budget (CR’s is 110.68mil, or 11.068% per year of appraised property value; a $350k house would cost you $38,738 per YEAR in taxes which go directly to the school system). It would be like CMWright and Bel Air were their own district, and allowed to walk door to door, shaking down property owners for $30k each.
My mistake, PA uses an archaic assessment method which does not peg the value of the house to the retail sale price, a $350k house would be taxed as if it were worth $30-40k (so $3873 for a house assessed at $35k).
Pennsylvania is a different beast, since they do not have county-type districts. A rich town, like a Kennett Square, will always be trying to attract the best teachers with rich salaries.
When I posted by remark, I was talking more about Harford County. You won’t find 80K on their scale, to my knowledge. I looked at Baltimore County and I could find 80K, but only at step 27 for a Masters Degree. Of course with a doctorate, you would hit it earlier.
I was shocked that they actually had a step 27, since Harford maxes their teachers out at step 15.
The Harford step 15 represents a 71K+ salary…I would remind given the 187 day, 7.5 hour day (as we established) that it represents $51.00/hour.
So what? A maxed out long time teacher in the front line can make that for the few years they still work in their older age. Take a stroll to any state/fed administrative office and check out some of the people that make that and more for just hanging out for a few hours a day.
Your cries of overpayment and waste are aimed in the wrong direction.
I know teachers, state and fed employees and by far the teachers barring a few bad apples are the harder working of the bunch.
It’s too bad the union is a smokescreen for the bad ones and also too bad that teachers are such a public target of scrutiny.
Teachers you should ‘encourage’ the lesser performing of your group to step up and work.
Teacher bashers you should find more deserving targets of your anger.
But I think we both know that the GOOD teachers in our system put in a lot more time than 7.5 hours. Papers don’t get graded on their own and lessons don’t get planned by themselves. I would suggest that a GOOD teacher works at least an extra couple of hours per day PLUS time on weekends.
Sure…even adding the couple of hours per day and time on weekends, it is still a very nice hourly rate. But it should be. Educating our kids is one of the most important jobs in the world.
For me, I have no qualms about paying very high rates to GOOD teachers. For me, the problem has always been that there are teachers that come in with the students and go home 10 minutes after them. They use recycled lessons and/or do very little teaching. I do have problems with these individuals making good money at the taxpayers expense.
I have said this before…there needs to be a good system to reward the good ones with high pay and the bad ones with lower pay. Test scores are not a good barometer…poverty is a big problem that impacts test scores and teachers cannot control that.
The community knows who the good teachers are and who is just collecting a paycheck. I think parents and the school administration could go through a staff roster and select the good from the bad. The good deserver everything they receive and more. The bad, not so much.
And by the way, I am in no way suggesting that all teachers are bad. Far from it. But we do need to recognize that they do exist and they don’t deserve the pay that they receive.
Most of what you state here I completely agree with. As a matter of fact I think a very, very good teacher may well be worth more than $51.00/hour. My objection is giving everyone the same pay rate for apparently no more than breathing and occupying space for a like period of time. That’s certainly doesn’t promote excellence and surely ensures our students end up underserved as the bums remain bums and you eventually disincent excellence.
Money Tree – I agree with you 100%.
Again, in this county that is after 20 years. (3 steps/years were lost from 2008-2011 and 2 steps were lost over a decade ago) Those steps are never made back up. At this point in the teachers career, they are required to have a Master’s degree +30 CPD/MSDE credits.
Again, I know many other professionals who make this money in the private sector with only 1-3 years experience, who only have an Associates degree, and work to rule (they get paid hourly so they only work hourly). Plus many of these professionals do not take their work home with them, nor are they constantly criticized and belittled as you keep doing.
Glad I saw that comment regarding fed administrators it just made my day and kept me from punching someone.
I just had one tell me he hopes Obama give an extra free day off for Christmas Eve(not a federal holiday) as well as a pay raise. This from a person who already is paid $49 an hour for half effort work with weeks of time off each year. Factor in the downtime and 4 weeks of vacation a year with other sick leave and this guy is pulling $85 an hour for when he actually does work.
At least teachers have direct responsibility in terms of having to be with the kids. They can’t sneak away to run personal errands and visit the gym.
absurd
bring on the cliff and heave the dead weight off the edge
The BOE is basically a volunteer position. Members receive a $3,600 per year stipend to pay for expenses. From watching the BOE it is obvious that some members put more effort into the position than others. Perhaps these harder working BOE members should be paid more than their less engaged colleagues.
@Money Tree and Kharn,
What do you do since you feel that you are so entitled to opinions about teachers’ jobs? What makes you qualified to make these comments or feel that you have the right to judge who is GOOD and who isn’t.
(I’ll take this one)
Maybe because they (and the rest of the taxpayers) actually pay the teachers’ salaries? Or are you one of those who believe that the government pays for things with “government money”, not ours, so we should butt out and have no say in these matters?
In terms of money, our taxes pay for more than just “teacher’s salaries.” I am tired of this argument. Do you fight the postal unions or the police/fire departments in the manner in which you degrade and “butt in” with teachers? Do you degrade local parks and recreational employees and facilities in this same manner? What about the prisons and its employees? Do you scorn the higher educational system in the same manner? I think not. The problem is that too many people feel that they have a say in “our pay” and lives for two reasons: 1. taxes 2. they think they know what goes on in our classrooms because they went through system themselves without realizing how much the public education system has drastically changed over the past two decades. Until you walk in my shoes for at least several weeks and do what I do everyday, do NOT tell me what I am worth.
In addition, your taxes ultimately pay for jobs in the private sector, especially when the government contracts out many jobs to these companies. The Department of Transportation frequently contracts out to private construction companies. Your taxes also help pay for Social Security and Medicare but I do not see you complaining about these employees’ pay!!! (which is very strange considering how much health care and federal government employees make). Why teachers? Why us? Seriously? I have yet to have someone admit the truth about why teachers are always disparaged, especially when we are the SAME people that you ENTRUST your child’s education to, which is, ironically speaking, one of the most important things in a child’s life!!!! How scary….you criticize us and claim to know what we are worth but leave their education up to us. Like the name says, Wow!
Get rid of your union and I’ll butt out. Until that happens the flagrant misuse of monies is guaranteed – and that means as a taxpayer it’s my business. Your union doesn’t bargain with private sector monies…it’s my money.
But I pay for the union. Not you. That does not come out of your tax dollars but out of my paycheck.
Think about that comment and decide with some thought if it really makes enough sense to post it for everyone to read. Seriously what do your union dues have to do with your salary being paid by the taxpayers? Not sure that’s at all relevant to the public’s interest in what goes on in public schools, but I’ll play if you want…if I pay your salary and you pay the union…really think about it; where oh where do you think that money really comes from?
You still never said what you do for a living so I can criticize and belittle where the money for your salary comes from. It is like you are implying that you and other “non-teachers” are the only ones who pay taxes. I pay taxes too, just like you, if not more each year because of where I live. You need to get a grip dude!!! You are seriously barking up the wrong tree!
I’m a Harford County taxpayer and I have 13 years of experience with the public education system. I have witnessed first hand the difference between teachers that care only about their paycheck and those that do the job regardless of the money.
HCPS needs to institute a system to punish the poor performers and reward those that go the extra mile. Remove steps from those that call in sick after every Raven’s game or use the same typo-ridden tests and assignments year after year, while giving steps to those that show initiative and care about more than themselves.
Teaching is not an hourly position, it is salaried, which means you are required to spend the effort to complete the required tasks regardless of how long it takes. The collective bargaining agreement only specifies when you have to be at the school building, but the obligation to evaluate work, prepare for future lessons and other duties remain regardless of the location or time of day.
If you’re not happy with the idea of a salaried position and its requirements, or the downsides to working for a government bureaucracy, Taco Bell on Rt 22 is hiring shift managers.
Kharn, I actually agree with a performance pay system. In fact, Baltimore City has instituted this same type of pay system. However, the problem becomes, how do you determine effective teaching vs. hard-working? Do you pay on effort or performance? It is the same old question that many still argue and debate. The City has an incredible system set up. I will be applying there.
I hope you get the job.
Me too! Thanks for your good wishes!
“HCPS needs to institute a system to punish the poor performers and reward those that go the extra mile. Remove steps from those that call in sick after every Raven’s game or use the same typo-ridden tests and assignments year after year, while giving steps to those that show initiative and care about more than themselves.”
They need to do the same thing for administration in central office and in school buildings. Start with the leadership and the rest will follow. Nothing worse than someone who couldn’t even make it in the classroom trying to lead and inspire teachers. They end up using the only tool they have — fear — and that is no way to lead.
I agree in a merit system to a point…I just wish I could find a way that would be fair and equitable. I also agree that if you are going to give merit pay to the teachers, you should assign the same salary considerations to administrators and to the superintendent as well.
Wall Street has a simple solution to that:
You give someone enough of a salary to keep a roof over their head, food in the fridge and the lights on. Their annual bonus can be 0-200% of that annual salary, so they have a sword hanging over their seat every day to make sure they do their best.
Pay principals and APs the same salary as step 10 teachers, with the remainder as a bonus, dependent upon results.
Again, I agree with paying great teachers excellent salaries and paying those who are taking up space very little. But this idea worries because what tools will you use to determine the bonus money? Test scores? How can a teacher control if a kid studies, goes to bed early, has a good breakfast, etc in preparation for the test? It would be like telling a dentist that part of his job performance will be determined by the number of cavities his patients have. He/she can’t control if a patient brushes or flosses at home.
So, do you use evaluations? Well, from what I understand even the bad ones get good evaluations. So much for that.
I agree in principle, but for the life of me can’t think of a tool that is a fair and effective evaluation of the teacher and not a reflection of a student’s homelife or one person’s opinion of a single period in a classroom.
It is very evident that teachers are not supported by so many people on this forum. As a veteran teacher, it is very disheartening to know that people publicly deface and devalue teachers in Harford county. What a shame. These teachers helped shape your lives.
I am not criticizing but merely stating an observation here: The problem that many non-teacher citizens have with teachers and their respective pay is simple. We know that “to-be-teachers” know they know how much they are going to be paid when they enter that fraternity. Since the teachers know that, we simply get tired of hearing how they are not compensated enough. If you want to make more money, simply choose a more lucrative livelihood. Back in ’85 when I graduated, I wanted to be a marine biologist. I researched the profession and found they are not highly compensated. Although I would have liked to become a marine biologist; I chose a major where I could earn more money.