From Harford County Government:
(Bel Air, MD) – – The following statement was issued by Harford County Executive David R. Craig regarding a proposed move of the Constant Friendship Walmart to the Plumtree Road site near Bel Air:
“Harford County Government has been officially notified by representatives of Walmart of their interest in relocating from the current location at Constant Friendship near Abingdon to a site on Plumtree Road near Bel Air. The proposal includes plans for a Walmart Supercenter at the Bel Air location, which is a significant expansion beyond the size of the current store.
“I have serious concerns regarding the proposed construction of a Walmart at the site discussed. It is in my opinion the wrong location and not characteristic of the smaller type of retail we had hoped would complement the existing community shopping centers in the area. But more importantly, I have serious concerns about how the proposed project will impact traffic and public safety.
“I feel that it would in the long run be better for the county if Walmart were to re-invest in their Constant Friendship location. All too often, we are quick to abandon older facilities and communities in favor of new locations without looking at ways to revitalize what we already have. Now that the state has put the finishing touches on the new interchange at 24 and 924, the traffic situation in that area has improved greatly, and the current location is much better equipped to handle the volume of traffic that a store such as Walmart generates.
“While Walmart can, by right under the law, develop this property, I stand with our citizens and urge Walmart to reconsider plans to relocate from Abingdon to Bel Air. My administration is interested in working with Walmart to find a more amenable solution that will allow them to expand at their current Constant Friendship/Abingdon location. I encourage citizens to stay engaged in this process and to let their voices be heard. I hope that we can work together on a plan that is better for our citizens and our community.”
Now is not the time to back down. It’s the time to get even louder and engaged. You haven’t won because the county executive is making noises in your favor – it might be the old adage “be careful what you wish for” but in hopes there is no reason to be pessimistic – perhaps, just perhaps we can score one for the good guys.
Other communities around the US have been successful against WalMart. We can be too!
Craig said “While Walmart can, by right under the law, develop this property . . ” He also said he hopes Walmart can re-develop their existing site.
Someone needs to give Walmart a reason to do the latter and also needs to make it possible for them to do it by getting the owner to change their mind. Shouting at either or both of them won’t do it. It will take some very serious incentives if it can be done at all. Incentives cost money.
Of course, as we have all seen in the discussion on the C4L article about the Smith’s relocation incentive that many of our fellow HarCo citizens are opposed to that kind of transaction. In fact, on that discussion Money Tree said “but in tough economic times this hardly seems the right thing to do; particularly when this company has plenty of money on hand. . . ”
There is no real difference between the two situations except who feels they are being inconvenienced and I can tell you Walmart won’t be ‘bought’ for a measly $100K.
I don’t understand. Why is WalMart already legally able to develop this site? Why can’t they be stopped by county government?
Zoning.
And to explain more. The county has already changed zoning to this location to allow this type of business. As long as WaslMart meets any other legal requirements they cannot be excluded from developing there.
The county cannot discriminate against a specific business because they don’t want it there.
You’re absolutely correct and again it only more clearly suggests citizens need to be more concerned about the zoning process; the master plan and any changes to code. If you don’t pay attention you end up with Towson.
Richard,
You said the County can’t discriminate against a particular business just because they don’t want it there. Do the mayors of Chicago, Boston and Washington, DC know that? Or did they not get the memo?
Phone conversation between David Craig and Walmart – ” Hello Walmart ? This is David Craig. I just wanted to let you know not to pay any attention to what I say in the media about your proposed re-location. You see , I have angered many taxpayers in the county by giving away $850,000 of taxpayer money to Smith’s Detection and I need a “win” to make county residents think I’m for the little guy. No need to worry though , we all know what master I really serve. Proceed as planed. And don’t forget – Craig 2014!”
you are correct! He probally went to Walmart and said I will oppose it and when I am thinking of being governor…U can build right next to the county administration building! Craig 2014.
Bob,
I understand your frustration but if you are going to accuse Craig of something please get your facts straight. It was Craig AND the entire County COuncil except one person and the amount is $100K not $850K. You need to blame O’Malley for the $750K difference.
Alex – I have my facts straight. The county gave a grant of $100k and the state kicked in $750k. When I sat in at the County Council meeting the night this was voted on it was made crystal clear to Chad Shrodes that the State was only going to kick in their portion if the County Council “gave their blessing” by giving the $100k grant. David Craig had the bill introduced and supported it and is therefore responsible for $850k of tax payer money going to Smith’s Detection. The members of the council that voted for the grant are also to blame but this story was about Craig and Walmart not The County Council and Walmart. Blame O’malley ? Fair enough , but David Craig is every bit as guilty and in fact could have prevented the handouts to Smith’s Detection.
Good here as long as we don’t lose sight that it started FIRST with O’Malley and that the taxpayers of the entire state were forced to kick in $750K by O’Malley. Then, and only then, did Craig and the Harford County Council add $100K. O’Malley could have stopped it by saying no. As could Craig and also the County Council. Plenty of blame to go around if you are against it and want to point fingers. But in defense of the locals at least there is some potential benefit to HarCo. As you know as a conservative, and someone with training in economics and mathematics, I am not against it. I just hope you save some of your outrage for O’Malley and his team in Annapolis.
Wal-Mart founder Sam Walton said it best in his autobiography: “If some community, for whatever reason, doesn’t want us in there, we aren’t interested in going in and creating a fuss.”
Sam Walton also hung signs in the stores showcasing products made in America, and how many jobs that product kept in this country. Now almost everything is made overseas except the firearms and ammunition, because shoppers want cheap junk rather than quality products.
Time to keep the pedal to the metal. I have it on good authority that the supposed deed restriction preventing the sale of groceries by WalMart in the Abingdon location is bogus. They are able to do so if they wish. The real deal is WalMart want to move up into BA to sell groceries, sorry Mr. Klein WalMart has your Shop Rite slated for extinction, and explode South BA. They will then re-develop their current Abingdon site as a Sam’s Club to compete w/ BJ’s. That’s the master plan for the WalMart Borg. They are determined we assimilate.
Bottom line is the 924 cannot handle its current traffic flow & there is little room to expand. Combine that with the 200 apartments slated to be built across the site on 24 plus the Arts Center @ Wheel Road, if approved & you have an unlivable situation in BA South. Too bad for to old growth communities there. Your property vales will crater if the WalMart project goes forward. But look on the bright side. You have cheap groceries until Klein’s Shop Rite is run out of business & you have private sector employment opportunities at minimum wage. It’s a win win!!!
I’m not so sure they’re after Klein’s although I think they’d like to take Klein’s as an afterthought. This is a war between goliaths…they want Target and they’re ticked that Target put groceries near the mall last year. Walmart has always had a take no prisoners philosophy of business – they don’t care how many other businesses or downtowns they destroy in the quest to become the most enormous mega store in the history of the world. Just read a story today about the demise of Best Buy – desperation at that organization and largely because of online sites and Walmart. Ask yourself one question…if all retail business in this country is concentrated in Walmart what does that mean?
Best Buy is failing thru sheer arrogance and stupidity of their executive management. Similar thing happened at Circuit City but a different straw broke the camel’s back – lousy inventory system and literally no in store attention to customers.
Walmart is not really a competitior of Best Buy. Same TYPE of products in a narrow range but different class of quality in each line. If you want a quality TV you go to Best Buy and if you want a cheap TV you go to Walmart. Also Walmart devotes a very large area of their store to selling a lot of stuff that Best Buy doesn’t – for example, sporting goods, housewares, linens, clothing, toys, food and jewelry.
I won’t link the article because it holds up the posting, but here’s a quote from article printed 3/30/12 by Christian Science Monitor in comment regarding reasons for the closure of 50 Best Buys in various locations.
“Last year Best Buy lost a staggering 1.2 billion as it deeply discounted merchandise to keep pace with rivals Amazon and Walmart”.
Once again Alex you are incorrect. Anyone with minimal marketing skills understands Walmart has a huge electronics section and with economy of scale out the wazoo can deeply discount, deeper and longer than Best Buy could ever dream of. They’ll be happy to put Best Buy out of business and they’ll do it at the long term cost to all of us. What will it mean to free enterprise and free markets when all we have left is Walmart who’s managed to grab all the marbles. I find that outcome troubling the result of which is absolutely antithetical to free markets.
Money Tree, listen to me. Electronics are not all the same. Walmart sells low end, low quality, inexpensive stuff. Best Buy sells middle to high end better quality stuff in a different price range. The same comparison can be made if you want to insist that the Bel Air BMW dealer is going to be run out of business by the local Kia dealer. Not going to happen.
You’re impression of the quality of merchandise matters little – what matters is where people buy what they buy. Both stores carry camcorders, televisions and such…if you’re a family on a budget and you can get a Sony 42″ tv from Walmart for $50 bucks less you do it. Yes, Walmart is a competitor of Best Buy.
Major side conversation, but you guys are both right. They are competitors on the budget range, but Best Buy absolutely has higher quality merchandise on the middle and upper end range.
What Walmart counts on is an undeducated/uninformed consumer who thinks that a) all tvs are the same and b) size is what matters most in a tv. So when people start checking prices, they are going to say to themselves, well I can get this 42″ Sony from Best Buy for $750, or I can get a 42″ Sony from Walmart for $500. No brainer right?
That is until the consumer learns that there are numerous specifications that distinguish these two tv’s, and that in many cases the cheaper Sony model is manufactured with different parts from different suppliers. I remember reading a long time ago that WalMart actually actively tries to convince large name-brand companies like Sony to develop cheaper alternatives to sell in their stores.
So yeah, you got a cheaper tv, but you also got an inferior one both in specification and quality. Maybe if you spend within your means for a smaller quality television, you would be happier and you won’t have to buy a new one in 5 years.
Now, keep in mind, Walmart does sell some more expensive quality products in their stores, but most consumers would never know the difference, nor is there likely an employee who does either.
Bottom line, yes they compete, and yes Best Buy would be hurt by the competition, but they are not direct retail competitors.
If good quality elecotronics stores (not saying Best Buy is one of those) dies in our current economny, it’s beacuse 1) more people have less money and spend less, and 2) because as a culture we are overly focused on keeping up with the Joneses and will buy aspirationally when we can’t really afford it
I agree with your overall assessment of Walmart, except I do believe the current site does have restrictions. Target has the same restrictions on grocery square footage. If you ever look in the Sunday sale papers, the Target grocery ads always have a footnote saying “Except the Target location in Abingdon, which doesn’t carry all advertised groceries” or something to that effect.
It sure is interesting that the county executive can come out and support a community that does not want a Walmart in their neighborhood but will not listen to a community that does not want a waste transfer station in theirs.
Unfortunately the garbage has to go somewhere, every trash company currently bases their rates on transporting the waste to the incinerator in Joppa, moving it to Scarboro would require reevaluating those rates and renegotiating contracts. Plus I’m sure people living near Scarboro would complain about the increased truck traffic.
The trash does have to go somewhere but not in the middle of a residential neighborhood nor on roads that are unable to support the increased volume of traffic this facility will generate. There are other more suitable places in the county that if properly assessed could have been bought without paying more than twice the value of the land.
Quintus Tullius Cicero, How to win an election, 64 BC;
“Promise everything to everyone. Quintus says that the best way to win voters is to tell them what they want to hear. As Quintus says, people will be much angrier with a candidate who refuses to make promises than with one who, once elected, breaks them.”
Craig wants to be Governor, can we believe him? I want to hear some specifics as to what he will do. This site could never support 10,000 cars a day.
I like that you can quote Cicero with a straight face while still worshipping at the feet of Obama.
I’m sorry you don’t have the sense to know that these tactics come from the Romney/Rove’s playbook. How quickly you forget when it is convenient.
If only Romney had a playbook. If only. If he did then he would be leading Obama by a wide margin.
PTBL, you and I disagree on a lot but the only way I will vote for Romney is if the Democratic nominee is Mr. Obama. The Republican establishment once again is on the verge of squandering an opportunity.
Hear, hear.
Somehow the party has found a worse nominee than Bush or Dole.
No one worships at Mr Obama’s feet… just be sure to be ready to beg forgiveness when Mr Romney decides to outsource your job to China because the labor there is cheaper and they don’t need to provide health care, clean air or water.
Walmart employees in Abingdon are saying some kind of sporting goods place is going to occupy the old Walmart site. As far as Mr Craig goes, something about his statement just feels like it’s nothing but pandering. What the county should demand, if legally possible, is that Walmart pay for all road expansions and traffic control around the new store. Walmart is landlocked in Abingdon and getting in and out of Constant Friendship on a weekend is a nightmare, so expansion of Walmart down there doesn’t make much more sense either.
In most cases of mega-companies, the employees are the last to know anything. How would they get this info but through rumor? The only way to really know would be from the horse’s mouth – Walmart executive or new leaseholder.
In this case, I generally believe what Walmart officials stated in the meeting– that they don’t know yet what they are going to do with the old location. I’m sure they have ideas, but nothing set in stone. The employees are yapping about in an echo chamber, much like the internet. People start to beleive things they hear over and over.
Also, generally speaking, developments ARE required to pay for nearby road improvements already, so that’s not really asking much of WalMart. The community has to demand a lot more than that. The Boulevard at Box Hill developer was required to review and improve intersections up to 2 miles away. Walmart should be even more.
And, Walmart is not really the cause of the problems in Constant Friendship. There is a turn lane into Walmart (two actually) and a right turn out of it, and Walmart is on the plot closest to the main entrance, so actually ingress and egress couldn’t possibly be easier.
Most of the problems in that shopping center come from the volume of traffic (due to the rest of the stores), the speed of the traffic, the one single pressure point, and all the people who feel they have a right to make left turns whenever and wherever they want. I shop there on a fairly regular basis, and I do two things that keep me from ever having problems getting around 1) go off hours 2) avoid left turns.
And if you think the problems at Constant Friendship are bad, just wait till you try to get through Bel Air South after the Supercenter is open, there’s a light at Bright Oaks, heavy traffic coming off Blue Spruce, a few more stores added in, the apartment buildings finished, and the intersection of 24 and Plumtree is closed by the state.
You already sit through lights 3 times to get places there. A few extra lanes and a light aren’t going to begin to solve that problem.
I’ve heard the Plumtree/24 closure comment made by someone else. Can you provide more info on that? Is that a done deal?
Yeah, beware the echo chamber, as I said above.
It’s not a fact at this point, but it is on the advice of someone who should know. I have confirmed with a SHA official that MD24 is a limited access highway, meaning the state controls the number of ramps and intersections that are sllowed.
And apparently we are already over our limit of what the state would like to have on that road, and the supposition by this person is that eventually the state will ask the county to close one of these access points. By going down the line and looking for the intersection that is at the smallest road probably leads us to Plumtree Road.
It’s logical, but so far unconfirmed.
The 198 apartments for the area are in the pipe, however, as there are zoning meeting notices already put up.
A good comparison to our current situation with Rt 24 would be Howard County’s Rt 29. Started under similar circumstances with similar intersections to how Rt 24 looks now. 20 years ago the SHA redid major portions of Rt 29 to make it the limited access highway it was intended to be. I could see the same being done with Rt 24 here, with Plumtree, Wheel, and maybe even Singer Roads becoming underpasses, and maybe give Singer some ramps to feed onto / off of Rt 24.
Like it or not fellow Harford County residents, growth and change are coming to the Bel Air area. Bel Air will look like Towson or Ellicott City in 20 years. If you don’t like the growth and changes, then you should have been involved in the politics and zoning process all along. Silence equals assent, and now that things are “under way” it will be mighty difficult to get the train off the tracks.
Wake up, stop being so self absorbed, pay attention to the world around you, and be involved in your community.
Sell your houses and move further out.
Wait, that’s how most of you got here now.
You can only run but so far from people until you run into other people.
Today’s insiders were yesterday’s outsiders.
How long do you have to live here to not be an “outsider?” I am working on 23 years. If I could do all it over again, I wouldn’t. I have been involved in this community for years and have been numerous county council meetings, county executive forums, zoning hearings, DAC meetings, etc. I am not convinced a few people fighting this zoning would have helped. I guess most people made the mistake of thinking their elected officials had a lot more common sense and intelligence than what they do. It is almost inconceivable that with the current traffic problems, something that huge would even be considered. In the past 2 weeks without school being in session, 3 accidents have occurred at 924 and Plumtree during rush hour. I
Change is coming and my point was whether you be a long time resident or fresh face, we have to live together and find a way to accomodate changes in a sensible manner. Elected officials are all too ready to tout development as progress to pad thier personal resume and move up in the political arena. Even if such development is done with wreckless abandon disregarding common sense and residential priorities.
All too often it seems attending meetings doesn’t make a bit of difference when you know the real deal is happening in a back room
Demand transparency and accountability
Disgusted Perhaps it would help if we elect representatives that are more concerned about you than developers.
Excellent! Thank You Mr. Craig for representing the views of the PEOPLE of this community! Let’s stay together and stay strong and continue to fight this!
But, Doug, the PEOPLE of this community have already spoken and the PEOPLE have already decided that Walmart is perfectly within their legal rights to put a store there when they approved the zoning map. Mr. Craig agrees and says so in his statement.
Perhaps that searing pain in your foot and in my foot and the foot of each of us is not caused by the thought of Walmart opening a store on Plumtree but could it be a self-inflicted bullet wound when we decided to blow off the zoning changes a long time ago?
Look folks it is a done deal. 4 years ago was the time to complain and stop net gains in jobs and be anti free market and regulate buisness. Now it is to late.
Well my friend, since the land will almost certainly be developed somehow and since many of the jobs are coming from the current store, I don’t think you have to worry about losing your precious “gain” in jobs. (All Hail the Job Creators! Amen!)
Also, it IS the free market at work for the community to rip Walmart a new one when they start to go about this process, and it will be the free market that stops Walmart when they decide it’s not in their best interests to continue.
You should find that thrilling since it adheres so closely to your ideals.
So it is free market when the government regulates against a buisness owner opening up on land they want to develop????? Free market stopage would be if you refused to go and the buisness failed not using government to retroactivley rezone. I guess we should start telling people what their houses should look like and if they can live there.
You are so narrowly focused it is astonishing. It makes it clear there is no talking to you. But I’ll try anyway.
If you go back and actually read what I said this time, I didn’t say ANYTHING about government stopping Walmart. I said the “community” convices WALMART to change their minds. That’s free market, genius.
And yes, there are already zoning codes on what developments should look like, zoning laws that tell us where we can live, and code inspectors who tell us if we can live there.
And laws that also tell us:
what cars we can drive
that we have to have auto insurance
what clothes we can wear
where we can shop
where our kids can go to school
what tv’s we can buy
where we can drive our cars
how we drive our cars
the list is endless
If you want to abolish about half of the government and laws we have and go back to 1870, you can have that opinion, but don’t yap on about ‘property rights’ like this is some horrible new evil being thrust upon the poor helpless Largest Company in the World.
The gain in jobs will be the construction of the new store and the new jobs since it is expanding.
The land is zoned for Wal-mart and is properly being used. If people didn’t want it they should have complained when it was rezoned from residential to buisness.
It is not like they didn’t have signs up for these meetings.
Wow man, do you get paid for this? Because there have to be some far right or left wing news organizations out there that would pay handsomely for your brand of singlemindedness.
If they rebuild the store on the land they already have, we have the same gain in jobs. AND, when the land at Plumtree is developed later on for a different use, we’ll gain EVEN MORE JOBS. Isn’t that exciting??
And I can’t speak for everyone, but I know that many people weren’t and still aren’t upset about the zoning and probably wouldn’t be upset about some other retail or commercial use there. They are upset about a 180,000 sq ft Walmart that draws up to 10,000 cars a day to streets and intersections that are already failing. Additionally, they are upset about the provided site plan that does little to address that problem, and in many ways, actually makes it worse.
The Largest Company in the World can do better.
Why do folks get worked up. It’s not worth it. I used to when I saw more and more of rural Harford county slip away years ago as the Hess and Turners and many others got rich. Now it’s the population driving the continued non-stop infusion of retail. If there wasn’t the great population centers like Bel Air South, retailers wouldn’t be foaming at the mouth to get in here. Something is going to be built on the old McNutt place, whether it’s Walmart or something else. The Fallston Walmart seems to be a good neighbor – in a less densely populated area. Hopefully Walmart and area governments can work together to ensure the new supercenter will be a good addition. I don’t hear anybody still in hysterics about the Forest Hill Kohls and now Chick-fil-A. So maybe once the new WM is built we’ll all learn to live with it as well.
Speaking of Chick-Fil_a in Forest Hill, I was there last night. Drive thru line backed up out to Route 24, struggled to find parking, could hardly get in the door, would someone tell those 2 stupid mayors in Boston and Chicago to shut their d**n mouths?!?! Oh wait, this is America, we can’t do that.
I know, off topic, but thans for letting me vent. I feel better now.
You just couldn’t stop when you were up, could you?
Actually in a way it is on topic, because for the same reasons that those Mayors can’t discriminate against ChikfilA opening new stores in their jurisdictions, so our County government cannot blatently prevent the opening of a Walmart store here. Both would be overreach of government intervention.
And in both cases, the community has an opportunity to have their say and make it known if the business is not welcome.
The government has to handle all these applications for businesses and developments in the same way, according to the laws in place. If either a Walmart or a ChikfilA can’t meet those requirements, they will be stopped.
But not because you don’t like them.
NOble,
Thanks for salvaging my ‘off topic’ to get it on topic. But as we both know, I hope, there is a large difference between the following 2 attitudes:
(1) as mayor I personally (or was he speaking for his Party?) disagree with what Company ABC stands for and the religious beliefs of their CEO and because of that I don’t want them here – even though the law permits it – and I am going to bring every force of my government to bear to make it impossible for them to come;
And (2) I disagree with Company A and their policy and religious beliefs but if our existing laws and regulations allow them to locate here then I am sworn to uphold those laws and beliefs.
Noble, the beauty of America ought to be that we don’t discriminate based on religious beliefs. I know that is naive but could I at least hope and, more than that, expect that our elected leaders set an example?
What will be next? We don’t like Muslims so we are going to make it as difficult as we can for them to open and operate a business? Jews? Catholics? Hindus? Atheists? When one of us is attacked we are all attacked. We should never forget the words of Martin Niemoller. If we do, history will demand that we learn them all over again, and history is a terrible task master.
Absolutely. +1
Sorry, Noble, just defending those of the Muslim faith who are, as we all know, very anti-homosexual.
David Craig will be rewarded abundantly with votes if he does all in his power and keeps Walmart in their present location. It does not fit in the Bel Air South Community.
I do hope that he is successful, however, he really does not have the power to stop it, besides the power of persuasion.
He might not have the power to stop them from building, but— He does have the power of permit and inspection. He can tie them up for three years or longer in traffic studies. The County Exec has a lot of power and knowing David, he knows how to use every ounce of it.
If you have not done so all ready please write your county representatives to voice your opposition. Here are their addresses:
County Executive
David R. Craig
Harford County Government
220 South Main Street
Bel Air, MD 21014
Director of Planning and Zoning
Pete C. Gutwald
220 South Main Street
2nd Floor
Bel Air, MD 21014
County Councilman District ‘C’
James V. McMahan
212 South Bond Street
1st Floor
Bel Air, MD 21014
There is precious little that our county representatives can do. It’s not like they really have to approve anything (besides through the DAC process — but even that would at best require Walmart to do a number of things relating to traffic and aesthetics).
At this point, our efforts are best spent by contacting Walmart and asking them to stay at the current location at Constant Friendship.
And actually, the Plumtree Road property is in District B (Joe Woods).
Yes it is in B, though Plumtree Rd and 924 are the border between B and C, so virtually everything else around it, and most of the residents impacted live in C.
Write to both.