Clad in Youth’s Benefit Elementary School green, approximately 30 advocates attended the June 25th meeting of the Harford County Board of Education, asking board members to put a replacement school for Youth’s Benefit at the top of their funding priority list for the fiscal year 2014.
The Harford County Board of Education approves a capital budget funding request each year for submission to the state in October, subject to funding availability from state and county sources. The capital funding request for the fiscal year 2014 must be submitted to the state in October 2012.
However, the school board has put all major capital projects on hold pending the results of a review of county facilities known as the Comprehensive Facilities Master Plan, which is being paid for by Harford County government. The contract to conduct the review, including all Harford County public schools, is expected to be put out for bid this summer, according to Cornell Brown, HCPS assistant superintendent for operations. Brown has estimated that such a comprehensive study may take at least a year or more to complete.
Below are excerpts from the comments made to the Harford County Board of Education on June 25th by representatives of the following Fallston community organizations: Build It Now, the Youth’s Benefit Elementary School PTA, and the Greater Fallston Association.
MacMillan: Youth’s Benefit Meets All Criteria for Prioritization, Replacement School is “Shovel Ready”
“Good evening President Wheeler, Dr. Tomback and members of the Board of Education. My name is Paul MacMillan and I am speaking on behalf of Build it Now which is a community based organization of concerned citizens that has been advocating for the replacement of the County’s aging multi-building elementary schools.
Tonight I am here to ask the Board to include Youth’s Benefit Elementary School in its 2014 Capital Improvement Program and to ask the State for funding for this project. With over 1000 students it is the largest elementary school in Harford County and one of the largest in the state.
Given the scarcity of funds available to replace aging schools it’s difficult to prioritize the handful of schools most in need of replacement and there are four critical filters that should govern that prioritization.
1. Does the school meet all four of the HCPS’s current criteria for replacement?
2. Is the school one of the Board’s top priorities for replacement?
3. Does the school currently have the funding support from the County Executive and the County Council?
4. Is the School Shovel ready?
Youth’s Benefit meets all four of HCPS’s current criteria for replacement which are:
1. Adequacy of Core Space
2. Adequacy for Instruction
3. Age of School
And last, but not least…
4. Environmental, Health and Safety Considerations
Youth’s Benefit has been identified for replacement by Boards of Education as far back as 1996. Sixteen years ago!
The County Executive identified funds for the replacement of Youth’s Benefit in the 2013 budget beginning in the 2014 outyears plan and the County Council has also indicated their public support for this specific project.And, a comprehensive scope study was completed on Youths Benefit in 2007 and design and construction documents were substantially completed in 2009. Youth’s Benefit is shovel ready.
Youths Benefit is the only school in the entire system that passes through each of those four filters! To wait for the completion of the county wide scope study before asking the state to fund another school means that we lose out on another year of state funding of capital projects—funding that is lost forever to other counties.”
Runyeon: “Youth’s Benefit is the only school in the County with actionable lead levels”
“Good evening, my name is Laura Runyeon and I am the President of the Youth’s Benefit Elementary School PTA, an organization that represents over 800 families for a school with over 1,000 students. Thank you Dr. Tomback, Dr. Wheeler and members of the Board for the opportunity to speak before you this evening. We are here to request that the Board include Youth’s Benefit replacement in its 2014 Capital Improvement Program and ask for funding from the State for this project.
As you know, for more than a year, we have been actively advocating for the replacement of the aging, multi-building elementary schools in the County. Youth’s Benefit was identified for replacement as far back as 1996 and its failing building issues continue to mount. We have been on the list for 16 years – 16 and this facility is not healing itself.
We have outlined our many challenges including, a failing septic, buckets in the classrooms due to leaking roofs, open classroom architecture that is widely seen as counter-productive and has been outdated for over 30 years ago, a significant lack of classroom space, space for assembly and teacher planning, boilers that fail to adequately heat the water in the cafeterias, an inability to increase technology, structural cracks in the framing in one building and actionable lead levels in the water. In fact, Youth’s Benefit is the only school in the County with actionable lead levels.
I was dismayed to learn recently that the lead sampling in our Intermediate Building has not included the faucets in the bathrooms that the children utilize and that there are no signs posted warning students not to drink the water. It is entirely plausible that an 8, 9 or 10 year old child who sees several other students in line at the water station will not wait to refill his water bottle and will instead use the bathroom sink. Despite repeated requests that warning signs be posted in mid-May, we closed the school year this year without any postings. We don’t know for sure that the lead levels in the students’ restrooms are actionable because we aren’t testing them. We do know that lead levels are rising in other areas and that we cannot determine if the lead is coming from the pipes or the groundwater. We simply cannot continue to fail to address these issues…”
Poggioli: “Harford County is building…a recreation center, an EMS building and a humane society [facility]…it is imperative that we also build schools!”
“Good evening, my name is Beth Poggioli and I am president of the Greater Fallston Association. The GFA is broad based community membership group founded over 40 years ago to represent the residents of Fallston. Thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight on behalf of our community.
In accordance with its charter, the Greater Fallston Association is charged with encouraging the improvements of schools in the Fallston community. In this regard, the GFA supports the efforts of the Youth’s Benefit PTA and Build It Now, to respectfully ask that Youth’s Benefit Elementary be the top priority for replacement on the 2014 Capital Improvement Plan.
We understand that there is a proposed county wide evaluation, but as you know, Youth’s Benefit has been on the capital improvement list for over 16 years. We understand that our elementary school, one of the largest in the state, has received no major upgrades or renovations, due to the fact that the multiple buildings were to be torn down and rebuilt as one single safe structure.
The Fallston community is home to some of the highest performing schools in the county and state. We know that our children have the potential to meet the challenges of the 21st century, but to expect them to continue to try to achieve in school buildings that lack technology, contain open classrooms and are potentially unsafe is unacceptable.
We understand that Harford County has chosen not to forward fund schools, but we are aware that the State will be including a significant amount of money for school construction, in the state budget. On a local level, the Fallston community was told in 2009 there was a lack of funding available for our project. In fact, many county capital projects were put on hold during the economic downturn. As of 2012, Harford County is building again. A recreation center, an EMS building and a humane society [facility] are all on this year’s county capital improvement list. It is imperative that we also build schools!
The time is right for this project now.”
The persistence of the YBES community in advocating for a new school is laudable but ignores the actions of the school board to come to grips with the realities of limited school construction funds and an honest effort to determine which schools are most in need based on an independent assessment of all school facilities. While YBES may be in need of replacement it may not be the school most in need. The push by YBES advocates to “Build It Now” is certainly a reaction to the planned comprehensive review being planned. Once completed the review may find YBES at the top of the list for replacement but so may John Archer, William Paca/Old Post Road ES, or Harve de Grace HS.
Recent reporting in the Baltimore Sun demonstrates the benefit of having an independent review of school facilities. In the article the Baltimore City Schools Superintendent recognizes that other considerations will come into play on any final decision as to which schools to close forever and those to be replaced with new facilities. The important factor here is that the Superintendent has a reasonable platform from which to make recommendations to the Baltimore City Board of Education so they can make informed decisions on the priority of school construction.
We only need to look at our own experience with BRAC in Harford County. The need to consolidate military facilities and replace old structure was evident and in an effort to minimize the politics of what certainly was coming to be a contentious process an independent review was undertaken. In this process there will always be perceived winners and losers. Locally Harford County won with the expansion of Aberdeen Proving Ground, those in New Jersey think otherwise.
Waiting for the completion of the independent review before making any decision on new school construction in Harford County is the prudent thing to do. Obviously this will not sit well with those advocating for a new YBES who with some justification may see their window of opportunity closing but the school board must take a broader view of what is in the best interest of the entire school system. This approach also limits the potential for corrosive political interference by local politicians that might want to make new school construction a campaign issue.
While the “Build It Now” advocates point out that the YBES project has moved around on the priority list for many years so have other school construction projects. A completed independent review may finally place school construction projects in some realistic priority order.
What would it take to condemn a building and disperse it’s occupants until a time at which new construction is palatable?
I would think the county or state health departments have that authority. It is certain that these agencies would already know about the issues at YBES given all of the required reporting about lead levels in the water or any other suspected health and safety concerns. That it has not been done by now would suggest that problems at YBES have not risen to that level.
5 trailers of new equipment on the front lawn at YB seems like a decision has already been made to “fix it now.” Spending that much money just to flush it down the toilet would be a bitter pill for all those who have gone years without raises.
Board members may acknowledge parents publicly at meetings but the vote to drop those trailers is what count$. It also seems to make sense that an independent assessment of all facilities would take into consideration major upgrades having just been completed. For the Build it Now folks, the sound that they heard when those trailers hit the ground may have been the sound of the window of opportunity for a new building closing. Each year that we move away from the plans drawn for that building make “shovel ready” less accurate as it applies to the plans collecting dust. I would think that a set of 6 year old plans for a municipal project would be out of date by the decade that will have passed before any shovel could break ground.
Mr. Craigs letter in the press recently re: consolidation of departments that would oppose his current plan (HdG to leap frog the entire process by injecting his own priorities) isn’t even subtle timing. Although the idea itself has merit I wonder why he just now feels it is time to express his thoughts so publically. Seems like a bold move for someone who may have state wide political aspirations in the very near future.
If it’s all about who can be the loudest and who has the political clout then why don’t we just tell the special needs school, the title 1 schools, and those with out a voice loud enough to be heard from the other side of the tracks (literally) that they are screwed – and save us all a lot of money on the county wide survey.
Close it down and let the soccer moms homeschool the kids.
These are the same parents who were so vocal about keeping their kids at YBES during the re-districting process….They even argued FOR keeping their kids in portables. It wasn’t so bad then — Why is it so bad now?
Yep, the same group that browbeat the BOE into changing the recommended redistricting lines allowing YBES to remain over capacity. Be careful what you ask for. If the school continues to be so successful academically why change anything? What is that old saying? “If it ain’t broke don’t fit it.” The YBES situation is a great example of it matters more about who is in front of the classroom than what type of building students are in.
I believe it has little to do with buildings and equipment but in order:
student, parents, teacher.
Note that administration and facilities are not listed.
JJ – you are absolutely correct contrary to the slammers and dammers on this post. That said, it is incumbant on our local government to ensure that the buildings we send our kids to 180 days each year are safe – it is clear that several buildings (yes, including YBES) are bending the definition of “safe” way beyond the bounds of common sense. It is perfectly reasonable for taxpayers to voice their concerns and opinions to these officials – that the way the system works. If we all step back at the tremendous waste of $$$ around the county, you can see why there aren’t new bldgs at Wm Paca or YBES – turf fields at rec centers and High Schools (ironically not at Fallston HS), the R. Chenowith Center – waste of cash! and oh the list can go on. Start adding that up and you’ll find more than one elementary school. Yep – it’s all our money – yours and mine, taken involuntarily through taxation. Speak up and stop this unaccountable government control.
@Agree – Two completely separate issues – location and community versus the physical structure and environmental conditions of the existing facility – but don’t let common sense get in the way of your disdain for law-abiding citizens who pay taxes and express their concern about the state of a public school in our County! BTW Agree – you’re paying for this bad policy too – that’s the beauty of involuntary taxes….assuming you do pay taxes? Well then – you’re on the hook!
I went to a high school that was 60+ year old, when I was there in the 70?s. That school is still in use and recently was named a Blue Ribbon school! Towson High routinely scores as one of the best high school in the state. The age of the building has nothing to do with what goes on inside. Maintenance is what we’re lacking. There’s something terribly wrong with spending hundreds of millions of dollars on new construction before addressing upkeep issues in ALL schools.
I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m getting pretty tired of Fallston’s whining temper-tantrums. Just because you have a 5000 square foot house on 1/5 of an acre of land doesn’t make you better than us (in fact, its pretty sad). Let’s make a deal: you teach your spoiled, unaccountable kids to stop spending your money on drugs, and you tone down your unjustified, self-absorbed sense of arrogant entitlement, and we’ll talk about building you a new elementary school.
But either way, you’re hurting our ears.
harsh…. but mostly ture
aaah! *true
sorry.
I grew up elsewhere in the county and also had that stereotype of snotty fallston-ites but moved here when an affordable house in easy commuting distance became available. Contrary to yours and many stereotypes, most of us don’t live in huge Mc Mansions on huge lots and many of us have the same economic struggles. Yes, we have some wealthy residents. Yes we have partying kids and parents who use poor judgement (which the media LOVES to report on….we had some doozies in Bel Air too!) We are passionate about our kids. You are too. YBES works as well as it does because so many parents do give their time and resources to make it work. Spend a day in one of the formally (and still mostly) open classrooms in the “new” (but poorly built and environmentally unsafe) intermediate building and you will also wonder how our amazing teachers continue to teach so effectively in such poor conditions. You would think your kids deserve better too!
This isn’t a new battle. This has been in the works for 16 years and is essentially shovel ready. We are tired of politics and watching the kids of ALL of Harford County pay!
The reality of Harco politics is just that Fallston gets what they want and if they don’t, woe unto anyone that tries to tell them ‘no’ or even ‘wait your turn’. A few people in Fallston do not want water or sewerage on Route 152 therefore the County government will make sure it doesn’t happen. Local media do not want to irritate Fallston residents therefore the underage drinking parties in homes will not be reported. Need a new and luxurious community center? Fallston got one. PTB, you nailed it.
Stop being hateful! I have been a resident of Fallston for 25 years. All three of my kids attended the Fallston Schools and did not do drugs and certainly are not self-absorbed! I teach at a high school in Bel Air and the same things happen in every high school in the county! We are not rich and both my husband and I work hard for a living. We chose to live in Fallston becuase they have such great school, teachers, and most of all residents where the parents truly care about their kids! All of you that are jealous could have bought a house here and we just want the best for our kids too. It is not a sense of entitlement!
I believe that wealth & poverty, good parents & kids exposed to drug abuse, as well as community involvement & apathy can be found in just about every corner of the county. It does however, seem like some areas are exceptional at patting themselves on the back.
You people get pretty hot about your schools and neighborhoods down there, don’t you?
Beach Girl: You are a smug self-absorbed Fallstonite. I can’t count how many sleepless nights I’ve had, consumed by the jealousy of not living in Fallston. Get real. You people in Fallston are like the boy who cried wolf. You whine about things that you want, not need. You think you are entitled to things. Then when you really need something, no one is going to pay attention because they are so used to your whining over meaningless things. Too bad the the kids are the losers once again. Now go back to all things Fallston and I’ll try to get through my day even though I am crushed by fact that I don’t live in Fallston.
Mr. Jones,
I guess the green-eyed monster really got to you!
BEACH GIRL: You Fallstonites seemingly have so much power so get the County Exec and County Council to do something about this heat. It’s hard to be jealous when it’s so hot.
Jones,
How stupid was that post? We just want is right for our children who also live in this county. Just support the whole HCPS and stop whining about where people live etc. We are all residents of Harford County and need to support our schools and stop worrying about where people live! Join in some of the committees for education in the county. I am a HCPS teacher and I assure you that every school could use a supporter like you!! Good Luck~
Cindy,
You hid my comment but you did not hide Robert Jones who was rather nasty to me and the people of Fallston. Please notice how many thumbs down he got compared to thumbs up. Not sure that the location of the school has any bearing on getting a new one. It looks like you sway toward anything negative about Fallston!
beachgirl -Comments are hidden on The Dagger based on the difference between the number of thumbs up and down they receive from readers – not the absolute number of thumbs down, as you suggest.
The process is automatic, and works the same way on all Dagger stories.
We do not “manage” the comments, either to support or detract from a particular point of view – we leave that to the voices and votes of our readers.
Cindy,
Then why do you only respond to comments that are controversial or that in which your name appears. You do have to admit that Fallston is bashed often by the local paper, the Dagger and the Patch. Until you live in our community like I have for 26 years, you have no idea what a wonderful tight-knit neighborhood we have! However, there are the same awesome communities in Bel Air, Abingdon, Edgewood, Belcamp, Abderdeen, Havre de Grace, Forest Hill, Joppa, Churchville,Riverside, and Fallston. (forgive me if I left one out). Let’s just support our county and give the support to every school!!!
It’s interesting that you say you chose Fallston because it has “great school, teachers.” All schools in Harford County use the same curriculum and teacher evaluation standards. Therefore, you should be able to find those same great schools and teachers anywhere in the county. So, what was your real reason for moving to Fallston?
Wondering,
Not that it is any of your business but we moved here from out of state and fell in love with Fallston! I know all the schools are good in HCPS because I am a county teacher! We are proud of our community and I hope you are proud about where you reside. Stop stereotyping everyone from Fallston!
“Stop stereotyping everyone from Fallston!”
Your doing a good job of fighting that stereotype…
Homeschool,
Sorry you cannot be from Fallston! All of you keep badmouthing our community but I do not hear you stepping up for your community! We are proud and if your community was being bashed, one would hope you would stand up for it!!!!
Do you teach in a rt40 school?
Today’s Allan Vought article in the Aegis “Push on to rebuild school, Harford executive says new HdG High will be built – or else” should terrify the YBES community. It appears that the county executive is prepared to implement a scorched earth battle plan that would sacrifice everyone and everything if he does not get his way.
The county council made it clear it would not support building two new school projects (YBES and HdG HS) at the same time for fear of the added dept service this would place on the county in future years. By a 5 – 2 (Lisanti and Guthrie) vote they opted to move the HdG HS project further down the line and only funded a scope study for construction.
Not happy with this outcome the county executive now claims to be near flipping two county council members (certainly not Boniface) in his favor to move HdG HS back to the top of the priority list. Which two of the remaining council members (Slutzky, Shrodes, McMahan or Woods) are willing to turn on the YBES community? If the county executive is successful the county will still need to seek funding assistance from the state. It is a virtual certainty that the state would fund only one (if that) new school building and when asked to choose between the two the YBES will disappear in a cloud of magicians smoke.
It appears “Damn the torpedoes full speed ahead” is the rallying cry of the county executive even if it means that the ship is crashed on the rocks with all hands, including himself, lost in the process. The thinking boggles the mind. With this type of approach the county executive will have alienated so many people he may not even win Harford County should he actually run for governor.
So the question has to be asked, does he even care? With threats like these (a refusal to fund ANY other major capital projects, schools or otherwise during the remainder of his term) it would seem that he doesn’t and to hell with everyone else. That he would stand in the way of necessary capital projects for parks and rec, the sheriffs office, fire service, libraries, community college, public works, and others demonstrates a vanity and hubris difficult to imagine. So unless the county council is willing to roll over everyone gets hurt.
Of course we didn’t even talk about the school board which has a lot to say about school construction but that is a moot point at this juncture unless the county executive can push the county council out of his way.
The “Build It Now” group should reconsider their strategy. The real obstacle to getting a new YBES is not the school board but the county executive. Unfortunately YBES has become an expendable pawn in the game of chess between the county executive, county council, and school board, and soon to be removed from the game board.
Has Mr. Craig forgotten the difference between Bully Pulpit and Bullying?
Can anyone tell me when the comprehensive study of all county buildings is supposed to be completed?
At least a year, possibly more.
The students at ybes have anywhere from7 to 15 buckets per classroom to catch the rain whenever it rains. Teachers can not plug in more than one fan per two classrooms, and when they do, nothing else can be plugged in either classroom bc of the outdated electric, the students CAN’T drink the water! And they have used every utility closet and storage space for classrooms, and are now completely out of space. I want everyone with infants & toddlers in this area to realize it’s only going downhill, Is this really the school you want your precious children spending 8 hours a day 5 days a week? Its unsafe!! the time to build is now. Daniel Craig should be ashamed. Nobody likes a bully!
What does James Bond have to do with this?
This whole debate leaves me shaken… not stirred.
You. are. exaggerating.
DANIEL Craig may well be ashamed but DAVID Craig’s feelings are probably more relevant. He’s only on his second term, maybe you’ll know his name next time he’s the CE. I think you should ask Randy Tomback for a new roof.
nor should Janine Haas, Dan Volrath or josephine skeebeck escape blame
The newer of the two buildings was full of leaks when it opened – I was a student there at the time. I guess those leaks never got fixed? As for open classrooms, they were all the rage back then. If we had to build a school for every new education fad, we’d be bankrupt in no time. I don’t recall learning any more or less in an open room, a closed room, or a portable.
The old school does not have open classrooms, or at least it didn’t in 1973. That place is built like a tank and is pleasing to the eye, I’d like to see it renovated.
These debates always remind me of my grandmother, who went to school in a one room schoolhouse in Indian Territory (later to be named Oklahoma), and could recite Shakespeare like an actor and do trigonometry like a mainframe. This at a time when the schools would be closed for weeks at a time because of epidemics. When the schools reopened, she told us, there were always a few empty desks. Perhaps we’d all be better served by taking the occasional break from our mindless bickering to count our blessings.
The school would not be so overcrowded if people actually paid attention to where the kids are coming from. A mother I know routinely drives from Edgewood to her mom’s house in Kingsville so the kids can go to YBES. Why doesn’t she send them to Edgewood? Because she is under the mistaken belief that the people she lives with and associated with are not as great an influence on her children as where they go to school… and her parents felt the same way when she was growing up. It all matters and has an impact on the child.
Here’s why she does that…because there is a deep rooted belief in this county that any school or human living on the Rt. 40 corridor is sub-par. It is ridiculous and elitist, but nothing is being done about it at the county level or by the school district. Therefore, not much is going to change.
Mr. Porter, your story is very interesting and I have a good sense that there is more than one family pulling this little slight of hand. It’s funny that parents are getting away with this and have been for years – through the whole redistricting debate this is exactly what was highlighted by some. The Edgewood ES was identified as such a great school by those on the other side of the argument. Those kids are from that community and the school may well have been around the corner from their homes. Yet, people argued that it was correct to continue allowing them to travel 10 miles to YBES while students that are within 2 miles of YBES (which may be two farms and a subdivision away) were tagged to go to JES – 7 to 8 miles from their homes in a totally different community. So – let’s all throw out the bs arguements about YBES overcrowding and and those whiny Fallston people who are now complaining about this building. This building has been in rough shape for many, many years. It was #1 on the upgrade list years ago. The quality of the education has little to do with the physical school, but its quality has everything to do with whether that facility should continue to be occupied and whether we should pump additional tax dollars into temporary band aids.
Report her. One thing HCPS actually does do is take such reports seriously.
I have extremely low expectations of HCPS based on personal experiences. I would prefer they did the research themselves. I can’t tell you how many times I have tried to bring this issue to the attention of Child Protective Services, Law Enforcement and the Courts all without any action and only excuses.
You’ve brought it to the attention of everyone except those who can do something about this particular school issue. Send a letter to the principal of the school and CC the letter to the school board and main office.
Since you have such an axe to grind with this woman why not start grinding where you can.
I look forward to hearing results and not your usual rehashing of your/her saga.
All three of which are not tasked with enforcing school enrollments. Try the PPW office!
The truth is this: there are many buildings in HCPS that need replaced and rebuilt. John Archer, Bel Air Middle, William Paca/Old Post Road, Havre de Grace High, Youth’s Benefit…
But the fact remains this one point and everyone seems to be missing it. There is NO money. Teachers received a measley 1% COLA. There was a reduction in staffing by 73. At this rate, HCPS simply can not afford to rebuild. Period.
The second point is this: ALL of the aforementioned buildings have issues. One schools need is not any greater than the next schools need. YBES parents need to shut up and quit whining. Have their kids go sit in a classroom at William Paca or Old Post and then see what they really have to say.
Lastly, if they aren’t happy with the fact that their school isn’t getting fixed, send your kids to private school!
Add to this Mr. Craig’s threat to stop all funding for school construction unless hdg gets a new high school and we can really see the ugly and petty side of politics attempting to dictate to the school system.
Didn’t Mr. Boniface have to remind the county exec that we no longer have a monarchy in this country? Mr. Craig’s actions are not the kind of leadership I want from my elected officials. What do they say about power corrupts? These kinds of actions do not bode well for Mr. Craig’s political future. I voted for Mr. Craig in the past. It will not happen again should he run for another political office.
Truth, With you all the way up to where you suggest they send their kids to private schools. Please, please, please don’t send Fallston kids to private schools. The private schools already have their hands full with self-important, entitled, whining parents who can’t be satisfied with anything. How about a nice boarding school in Connecticut?
You are right that a lot of schools need attention. But what you fail to understand is that only one of them is in Fallston. So if we don’t put YBES to the top of the list straightaway then, in the word’s of Beach Girl, we are being hateful.
Wow…can’t imagine how you’d justify attacking kids you don’t know. Trust me there are just as many ill behaved kids in less demographically financially successful areas than the opposite; as a matter of fact given a strong family structure and an educated, responsive parent the kids in Fallston might be predisposed to do better…jealous much?
Hey Truth – give us a voucher and that’s what would happen. Fact is, we all pay our taxes and most wish to send our children to the public schools in our area (whichever are you may live in). The County has been horrible at the basic maintenance of these facilities over years (as noted in a prior post) and the children that live in those areas end up in some pretty shoddy buildings. Fact also is, once these buildings get to a certain point of deterioration or other inherent negative conditions (e.g. asbestos, lead paint, non-potable water), it is ridiculous to continue pouring our tax dollars into that structure. So here again, anyone that mentions anything inside the area defined as “Fallston” is drawn and quartered in public. We’re talking about a public school – if you’re working, you pay for it, I pay for it, we all pay for it. How ’bout we hold our gov accountable to provide what we pay for through out tax dollars – period!
Vouchers don’t work? If we had them here how much would you think it would be for? Hint it would not even cover half of the tuition at John Carroll!
Religious schools are well known for providing scholarships or assistance to families in need. Buying a new BMW M5 and then crying poverty won’t help, but if you’re driving your kid to to school in a ’77 Malibu, you’ll certainly be able to get help.
Again that was not the question nor point. My point is a voucher will not cover the cost of John Carroll! Not even half.
And my point is that Catholic schools are well-known for making the tuition affordable for needy students, with a voucher it would be even easier for needy families to afford the tuition.
So you mean if I was poor John Carroll would cut their tuition by about 9-10 K a year so the voucher could make up enough so I could make 10 payments of $100 a month?
cdev, the answer is yes. They would have to show that they were academically capable of handling the work. There are kids there now that receive considerable reductions, aid, and scholarships. The kids and parents don’t usually make a big deal bout it. The kids need to maintain the grades too keep the aid or scholarship.
BTW, Calvert Hall, Loyola, Curley, McDonough, Gilman, Boys Latin,etc. all have similar programs. There is a limited amount of funds available (usually from alumni) to provide these programs. Probably only a couple kids per year max get the big tuition relief. Many get some aid.
So to further clarify if a voucher program was offered there would not be enough matching funds from the school to handle a large volume of children to make those schools affordable. My original point is that vouchers only cover so much and still leave a large amount to be paid.
The only students that I knew attending the schools JJ mentions and receiving significant tuition assistance were athletes who had been specifically recruited. We would not be talking about a very large number of people.
Does that mean that we shouldn’t continue to pour tax dollars into all the other school buildings that are in need of major repair or replacement? Fallston is no more entitled to a new school than any other community that needs a new or upgraded facility. Since some seem to think that Fallston supports the entire county because of their higher tax base perhaps county government should have a special one time property tax assessment of 10% that way there would be enough money to build a new school or two. I forgot, Fallston votes heavily Republican and raising taxes would just not do.
I AGREE WITH FED UP. IT’S DISCRACEFUL. LET’S SHOW THEM THAT WE HAVE HEART AND ALL ADVOCATE FOR WILLIAM PACA’S PRECIOUS CHILDREN. IT’S MORRALY THE RIGHT THING TO DO AND IMPROVING SCHOOLS IN OUR LOWEST INCOME AREAS WILL GENERATE THE MOST CHANGE. WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO PICK UP THESE UNDERSERVED KIDS AND GIVE THEM A FAIR CHANCE. LET’S GO! WILLIAM PACA OLD POST FIRST!!! “FED UP” IS TRUELY A BLESSED PERSON FOR RALLYING US ALL AROUND SUCH A NOBLE CAUSE. GOD BLESS YOU “FED UP”!
Why is it moral to spend more public money in poor areas? Are kids in Fallston less deserving? If the folks in Fallston pay for the bulk of the taxes is that so horrid that they’d want thier kids to have a decent school?
They have a decent school…they were VERY vocal about that two years ago when they were adamant that their shildren shouldn’t be redistricted (alot of them to Jarrettsville Elementary — another decent school … one that oftentimes outperforms YBES on standardized testing). They are just greedy and entitled. Period.
Hey Phil Rizzuto,
Do you have a link that would show taxes broken out by elementary school districts? You may want to check on your totals as to who pays the “bulk of the taxes”. DENSITY, commercial property, as well as other areas with much newer homes and/or higher value homes may prove contrary to your perception.
So if the folks in Fallston pay by percent far more than other Harford residents in terms of property tax should you expect them to continue to be willing to stand at the back of the line for thier own kids? Of course not…if I work by tukos off and make a bunch of money my kids deserve at least equal treatment. Jealousy is an ugly, destructive emotion.
The Fallston community has fought development in their part of the county at every turn. If there had been just a reasonable amount of new housing construction in that area YBES would have long ago been replaced because of overcrowding that could not have been ignored by the school system no matter how much their community was willing to absorb at YBES. Prior decisions made by Fallston community have created their own problems. Be careful what you ask for.
Like one of the previous posts, this is completely off the mark. As noted earlier, there are people in the Joppa area, a very long way (in distance) from Fallston, yet they are willing to bend the rules to allow their children to attend an elementary school that is 7 to 10 miles from their home (YBES). This Fallston bashing may be fun for some of you, but the simple truth is that the overcrowding that was argued during re-districting and the current debate are tainted only because this is “Fallston.” No other community would want to see their children shipped across county far outside their own communities, and nobody wants to see the children in a facility in poor repair or with environmental hazards (well documented, not opinion). So – if you want to repair these old schools – take a close look at the cost to do so. That should be the driver in the decision, not by political preference due to home towns. We the taxpayers also need to hold our officials responsible for dishing out cash on unnecessary projects that reduces our ability to repair the schools.
What unnecessary projects are you talking about?
Look at the upgrades to North Harford, or the gold standard of BelAir HS, or turf fields everywhere in the County (at nearly $1 million a pop) just to name a few. Our schools funded by tax dollars now rival the finest professional office buildings around. Patterson Mill appears to be done reasonably, but that may have been the last school where the source of funding was actually considered.
As for the order of priorities changing, how about an accounting of what so drastically changed that YBES was bumped from the school next to be upgraded? Did a school implode somewhere? Or were there politics at play there? So why does the HdG HS all of the sudden become a life-or-death issue for Mr. Craig? A little objectivity and common sense would be refreshing for all of us.
I think Turf fields have been paid for with project open space money.
Fallston had the chance to send kids to the new Redpump school but were up in arms about that. Well, you got what you wanted, the kids stay in YBES.
Money Tree,
If you think “jealousy is an ugly, destructive emotion” as you said then what do we the call the arrogant entitlement of ‘I make more, I pay more and therefore I demand more and I demand it right now’?
Of course your comments were hidden so I guess that speaks for itself.
I suppose the residents of Fallston are now beginning to see how the remainder of the County views them and we who don’t live in Fallston – and really don’t want to – are being reminded of why we feel the way we do.
The mere fact that these children have lead in their drinking water should be a sufficient enough to rebuild. Due to poor maintenance, the roof is supposedly caving in. Does a child need to be injured, physically from ceiling debris, or come down with an internal illness/brain damage for a school to be built? If this were taking place in the rt 40 corridor, the communities would contribute their title one classifications to years of drinking lead laced water. The parents would fill county council meetings over and over, and new facility’s would be built.
It is taking place on route 40……at Wm Paca Old Post Road!
Stop exaggerating! The roof is not caving in. If there was that kind of danger the building would be closed (just like the Black Box was) until it was examined and safety level established. No one is being exposed to any lead in the water. Is it an ideal situation? No, but bottled water is being provided which is considerably cheaper than building a new school.
All of you who are tired of listening to the fallston comunity speak up for its children and residents should learn something from us. Nothing gets done when you sit around silently waiting for everyone else to take care of you and your interests. You have to band together and come out in force, organize and agree on what you want and you’ll be one step ahead of the elected folks that have to make decisions on our behalf. Speak up and let the people that represent you know what you want otherwise you’ll end up with what they want or what some other voice louder than yours wants. If you want to know what’s so great about Fallston, its our sense of community not the size of our tax bills or the zip code we live in.
Myself and my brother and sister all attended YBES during the 70’s and 80’s and it was a great school. Now we all have homes in fallston and are sending our children (10 kids collectively) through the exact same facility 30 years later. If this was a government office building they would have bulldozed it 16 years ago. Not only do the parents of YBES think this but so did the former board of ed members that slated it for replacement in the past. This summer the county has decided to blow a couple million dollars on air conditioning for the primary building. This facility has the original windows from when it was built. I wonder how efficiently these new AC units will perform and how much taxpayers money will just blow out the window.
For those communities that want new schools, get out there and get involved. I was at the Board of Ed meeting two weeks ago and I didnt see anyone representing other school projects. Decisions are being made while no one is watching, by the time you read about it in the paper it already happened.
The problem with your tactic is that your community activism has gotten to a point for many that all they hear is a constant harangue that results in people turning you off as soon as you start to speak. You have made your point publicly now it is time to work behind the scenes on those that have influence or those that will actually make the decisions. If you can’t convince them then nothing you say at county council or school board meetings means anything.
Kudos to you Fallston Resident! You are correct. The bashers like to bring up all sorts of development issues when you talk about Fallston. Well – like it or not, the people that live in this part of Harford County don’t want it to look like Cockeysville or Abingdon. We don’t want the traffic, overcrowding, etc. It’s unfortunate that some communities remain silent on these topics and they ultimately pay the price by unchecked development. It doesn’t have to be that way and a community can preserve it’s physical integrity but it takes a continuous fight against politicians and developers but it is worth it! Assuming we (everyone on this thread) pay taxes and we all chose where we live, it is not only appropriate, but our responsibility to keep development (or overdevelopment)in check. Our schools across the County are the centers of our communities. It seems like some don’t understand that, or only feel that this is the case in Fallston. In the current discussion we’re talking about the physical buildings – there is no question that Fallston residents are very supportive of YBES – teachers and staff, just like other elementary schools in Harford County. But like a few ES buildings, YBES must be replaced at the earliest possible opportunity (assuming funding can be arranged among other priorities in the County). Like the Wm Paca community, Fallston does not want to see a band aid placed on their ES to “buy” decades more in delays.
And what Fallston wants is to go to the head of the line. No one is arguing that YBES doesn’t need to be fixed or replaced but what they are saying is that Fallston should not get to go the front of the line just beause they are Fallston. The attitude expressed by some of you who defend the position is that Fallston doesn’t want any development which is fine. But they love it when other communitites get the stores and car dealerships, and strip malls and convenience stores, etc. They want the development and all that goes with it but they want it in someone else’s back yard.
Most of my Fallston neighbors would agree….we do NOT want to be bumped up…we’ve been there. The plans are ready to go. No studies needed.
We don’t want to be bumped DOWN by Mr. Craig and his bullying politics. We do NOT want development….we chose to live out in the country and drive further to shop. I for one fight residential development because our school is already so overcrowded. We DON’T think we are entitled to the best. We just want a school with no lead, no leaks, no mold and doors/walls on the classrooms so our children can learn in peace. I for one did not fight redistricting because we had the potential to go to Jarresttsville and it IS a wonderful school. Yet if it had happened, I would have felt a loss to our community. Everyone, in every part of the county can fight for their kids. I am sorry that when we do, we are percieved as whiners. PLEASE…go whine for your kids….Mr. Craig is not…..he is playing political games.
So are you talking about our Walmart? The Rt 1 corridor in Fallston? The McDonalds, CVS et.al. on Rt 1/Rt 152? Or the development proposed along Harford Road? Oh, that’s right, let’s not let facts stand in the way of your hatred. I’d ask you to give me a break but I’m sure you couldn’t do that through your blind rage against Fallston. Please do us all one favor – enjoy your community – embrace it, support it and do what you feel is right for it. But watch out, someone outside your community may hate you because you’re involved and contributing positively…just like you seem to be doing to Fallston.
THANK YOU FOR THIS GREAT COMMENT! FALLSTON HAS A VERY SUPPORTIVE COMMUNITY AND WE ARE WILLING TO DO ANYTHING TO IMPROVE IT. GET YOUR COMMUNITY INVOLVED AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS!!!
The collective crying of Fallston should be treated with the same dignity as the incessant moaning of Ryan Burbey.
We do not want to be sent to the front of the line, we were at the front of the line and are now getting bumped. Our county has used hundreds of thousands of our tax dollars and yours to complete 95% of the design and engineering work needed to begin construction of the new school and then changed their minds. Who is responsible for this kind of spending. Shouldn’t you change your mind before you spend all the money on a design. I would say at this point the county is committed to YBES and needs to continue with construction. By the time another school goes through the design phase for construction of a new school that YBES has, YBES could already be completed.
As far as development goes we dont want it. We want to continue to drive 15-30 minutes to get to a wal-mart or a car dealership ( both in Fallston). I would rather see a 100 acre farm whose third generation owners decision to sell means ten new homes in my neighborhood rather than a Target store. I have had plenty of people tell me they could never live so far away from everything like I do. They live in areas like the town of bel air or in baltimore city where things are close by. We want commercial development in commercial areas, not rural ones. If you want to turn the Beta shoe factory into a commercial business park than be my guest but dont try to put it in the rural parts of fallston.
Complain to the county executive about being bumped. He is the one that wants a new HdG HS at your expense. He can say he supports a new YBES at the same time but that is not how it will end up. A new school for HdG or nothing at all. His words not mine.
As for being at the front of the line that is always subject to change. Buying a new big screen plasma tv was at the top of my list until my refrigerator when up so the tv got bumped. Because Fallston was so successful at keeping development out of your community houses and businesses were built elsewhere so the need to build Patterson Mill MSHS. The choices your community makes do have consequences, In this case new school construction somewhere else in the county.
I grew up elsewhere in the county and also had that stereotype of snotty fallston-ites but moved here when an affordable house in easy commuting distance became available. Contrary to many stereotypes, most of us don’t live in huge Mc Mansions on huge lots and many of us have the same economic struggles. Yes, we have some wealthy residents. Yes we have partying kids and parents who use poor judgement (which the media LOVES to report on….we had some doozies in Bel Air too!) We are passionate about our kids. You are too. YBES works as well as it does because so many parents do give their time and resources to make it work. Spend a day in one of the formally (and still mostly) open classrooms in the “new” (but poorly built and environmentally unsafe) intermediate building and you will also wonder how our amazing teachers continue to teach so effectively in such poor conditions. You would think your kids deserve better too!
This isn’t a new battle. This has been in the works for 16 years and is essentially shovel ready. We are tired of politics and watching the kids of ALL of Harford County pay!
and forgive me for being yet another Fallston “whiner”…I invite and encourage all of you to get out there and “whine” for your kids’ needs, no matter WHERE you live!
Are you on the frontlines demanding new schools for the route40 corridor?
Homeschool,
Harco and myself are from Fallston and fight for our community! If you are from the Route 40 corridor than you should fight for new schools. If we lived there we would be just as enthusiastic about getting what your community deserves! Get behind your own community like Fallston!
It seems to me that whenever someone from the 40 area complains about something, they are viewed as uppity. When’s the last time someone looked at you from down thier nose?
New buildings do not make the student body want to learn, and if they want to learn, they’ll do it with little regard to building age or condition.
Came across this… Seems like yet someone else who doesn’t wish to wait for the results of a county wide study. I posted this yesterday but it’s still “awaiting moderation” possibly because I put the link in to show where it came from and Dagger’s WordPress settings will not let that through. To work around this I’ve put the title of the blog on the next line. Copy and past it into Google and you should see the entire blog entry in cecilcalvert dot com. Some of the political blogs make the Dagger seem like the kiddie pool.
Enter this into Google to find the Blog
Why Is Harford County Building New Schools, Emergency Response Center, Complaining About Teacher Pensions, Agenda 21, Email From Craig Supporter States “HCEA is as Crooked as Casa De Maryland”
Here’s the excerpt I found interesting:
To Dick Slutzky and Boniface,
County Exec David Craig has made it clear and precise on the priority of the schools set to be upgraded for enhancements. My son attends Havre De Grace High and your putting my son and the other children there at a huge disadvantage. You will follow through on Mr. Craig’s plains to have HDGH enhanced and upgraded, should you fail to uphold your position as council members, I will find it very discouraging and will call you out personally. I work in the Political Arena and have gotten people elected and unseated. I play hardball, if you choose to disregard this message, I will personally make sure that you will be removed from your seats during the election cycle. If you think I am kidding, ask about me.
Now Richard and William, I know your jockeying for County Exec, I am giving you notice right now, you make sure my Son’s school is taken care of, or you will face the penalty at the both. I am not joking, Mr. Craig has worked very hard to get these schools taken care of and you fail to follow through, I personally will hold you, and you alone accountable. Now get it done. Stop playing games and rhetoric with the Baltimore Sun Democrat Explore Harford County, or I will have to sick my Political Dogs on your future aspirations. That’s not a threat, but a promise.
This has nothing to do with where Mr. Craig resides. You had no problems building New Schools and enhancing others. It’s HDGH’s turn, you muck it up, you face the music politically.
Beached Girl and Fed Well should really like this guy. He’s just advocating for his children right? Not obnoxious at all right?
Bird,
About as obnoxious as you! Get your community involved and stop being so envious!
swing and a miss!
Homeschool,
I don’t think I missed since you responded! Let’s just agree to disagree but I assure you in the end Fallston will have a new YBES Elementary School and it will have the strong support of all the residents of our fine community!!!
Jeff Werner is an idiot.
BS,
Isn’t it fair to say then that if Werner is an idiot for advocating, that those here doing the same
…would be idiots as well? ( A=B, B=C, then A=C ? )
hmmmmm- Seems like he just wants what’s best for the children in his community.
Jeff Werner is a kook, regardless of his political views, some of which I agree and others that I do not. He is still a kook.
Everyone is talking about Fallston feeling entitled. I can tell you one reason why some feel this way. I live on the Fallston/Forest Hill Border. A comparable house to mine(size/style/yard) in Edgewood/Abingdon/Joppatowne is assessed at about $1500.00 per year less than me. If you want to make things equal throughout Harford County–then let’s equal up everything..
Do you want theirs to go up or yours to go down?
either way is fine with me. But if their’s go up, we’ll have more money to build dem schools and pay dem teachers their well-deserved steps..
You bought in Fallston knowing that property assessments were higher (partly because the schools are rated better there) so don’t complain. If you don’t want to pay those higher property taxes for the same quality home then you should consider moving to a Rt 40 neighborhood, but somehow I don’t think that will happen.
I’m not starting a fight here; but you are making the point I was trying to. People that pay more in taxes “expect” more and usually are more involved( or at least more vocal) in the ways about the government services they are provided.
‘expect more’, deserve more, whatever, and now we have returned to the ‘entitled’ issue. Case in point.
It’s worth the extra tax dollars to not hear (hostile) gun fire, read about the convenience store you pass while walking your dog being robbed, deal with drug issues, etc.
A Texas Roadhouse restaurant is coming to Mountain and Bel Air Roads in Fallston this Fall. I can see all that traffic now, much to the consternation of those in Fallston that have tried desperately to keep development away. The creeping of suburbia has finally begun in earnest.
How many failed restaurant/bars have occupied that corner over the years. I doubt this one is the harbinger of doom for “rural” Fallston.
Different corner. This is going in the once empty woods and field that now has a McDonalds.
Same intersection.
Getting in to or out of any of the businesses that occupy any corner of that intersection is a risk to life and limb.
@ Alex R
You can expect big structural changes at that intersection (which will lead to even more development) in the next few years to accommodate the significant increase in traffic.
This is just the beginning of a major business expansion in that immediate area and portends much more development to come. Development at Mountain and Bel Air Roads will eventually have tentacles that reach further into rural Fallston.
CHANGE IS ON THE WAY,
Good. Glad to hear it. That intersection really needs it and the good people of Fallston need some convenience stores, gas stations, drug stores, chain restaurants, etc., closer to them. I’m tired of them clogging the lines in my neighborhood. But all of the development will require public water and sewerage. Man! Get ready for the howl!!!