UPDATE:
Joining a similar action taken by teachers at Ring Factory Elementary School on Friday, approximately 40 Bel Air High School teachers left school for the day on Tuesday at 2:20 p.m., answering their union’s call for all Harford County teachers to work only the hours required by their contract with the school board.
In a tip to The Dagger, one Bel Air HS teacher explained:
“These BAHS teachers are choosing to comply to the exact language of their contracts in response to several instances over the past several years of HCPS violating this same contract and not negotiating with the HCEA in “good faith.”
The Harford County Education Association (HCEA) is the union representing teachers in labor negotiations with the Harford County Board of Education.
To further their cause, HCEA also created a Facebook page entitled “Harford Students Count on Us” and posted a YouTube video of the protest at Ring Factory Elementary School.
— —
Saying they are angry over a lack of raises and broken promises by county officials, Harford County Public School teachers held a protest in Bel Air on Friday, and called for teachers to work only their contracted hours in the next school year and for the remainder of the current year. Teachers who “work to the contract” would no longer volunteer at lunchtime or after school to tutor students or to run extra-curricular clubs and activities.
Organized by the teachers’ union, the Friday afternoon protest in front of Ring Factory Elementary School attracted approximately 100 teachers and was planned to coincide with a visit to the school by Harford Schools Superintendent Robert M. Tomback. The teachers’ union, the Harford County Education Association (HCEA), represents the approximately 3,200 teachers in HCPS in labor negotiations with the school board. Not all teachers are members of the union.
Randy Cerveny, president of HCEA, said on Friday that teachers were angry about the pay scale, a lack of support and a lack of teacher input, with many teachers working extra jobs to make ends meet and some unable to afford living in the county. Teachers held up signs reading “Fund Public Education” and “Honk! If You Support Education!”, which prompted accommodating responses from passing motorists.
A flyer being distributed at the protest read, in part:
“HCPS is taking advantage of its teachers and we need to start taking action! We need to act as a unified force to let the community know what it happening to us! No raises, no cost of living increases, taking away our already promised stipend & bonus day…Why do we keep doing the things we do, such as providing FREE after school services for the student body?”
Cerveny said that the union didn’t create the flyer, but he said that HCEA supports teachers working to the contract.
Harford County public school employees have not had a raise in three years and HCEA is still locked in a labor battle with the school board over salary increases that were tentatively negotiated for the current school year. The raises, which included a 3% cost of living adjustment, weren’t funded by state or county government last spring, prompting the ongoing re-negotiations.
A paid bonus day proposed for the end of this school year is another source of conflict for teachers. The paid bonus day was offered by the school board last June to all employees in lieu of the unfunded raises for the current school year. Teri Kranefeld, manager of communications for HCPS, said that the teachers’ union rejected the bonus day, which was accepted by other employee unions.
Cerveny acknowledged that the teachers’ union rejected the paid bonus day, but said that there was conflicting information from HCPS about the date, and teachers at the protest complained of a broken promise by the school board.
Cerveny said he was told by HCPS that the last day for teachers would be June 13, and the “2011-12 Printable Calendar” posted on the HCPS Web site had that day listed as such, given the two inclement weather days used during the year.
But Kranefeld said in an email to teachers last week that, because the union rejected the bonus day offered, their last day would remain June 14, a date that had been on the school system’s web site and in the 2011-12 Parent-Student Handbook and Calendar. Kranefeld told The Dagger that the calendar showing June 13 as the last day for teachers was in error and would be corrected.
Bel Air High School math teacher Susan Taylor became tearful as she explained that she had planned to go crabbing on the 14th with her father, who was ill and needed surgery. “Now, I’m going to be sitting in my classroom,” she said.
Trina Hill, a special educator from Magnolia Middle School said she was spending the Friday afternoon before the Memorial Day weekend at the protest “because enough is enough”. Apparently referring to Harford County’s fund balance, which a financial consultant for the union has said could be used for education, Hill said, “This is a rainy day, right now.”
Teachers also decried the loss of the second half of a $1,250 one-time bonus, announced for all county employees in October by Harford County Executive David Craig. The first half of the bonus was paid, but the second half, which was to be paid in June, was rescinded by Craig on May 22. Craig said that the funds were needed to pay for the cost of teacher pensions, which is being shifted from the state to local governments beginning next year.
About midway through the rally, Cerveny and a group of protesters assembled outside the main door of Ring Factory to await the emergence of staff members who had boycotted their faculty meeting that afternoon with Harford Schools Superintendent Robert Tomback. As the Ring Factory teachers exited the building, they were met with applause from those assembled outside. Cerveny explained that the applause was to thank staff for leaving at 3:50 p.m., when their contract day was over.
Ring Factory teacher Mary Jane Ciufo was among those who walked out of the school, which was named a 2012 Maryland Blue Ribbon School of Excellence. Ciufo said that most of the faculty stayed away from the meeting with Tomback, where attendance was voluntary.
About a half hour later, Dr. Tomback was seen getting into his car, which was parked near the rear of the school building. As he headed out of the parking lot and past the protesters who remained, Tomback smiled and waved before going on his way.
“Plan of Action”
Teachers’ next steps include a demonstration at the June 11th school board meeting to be held at the A.A. Roberty Building in Bel Air. According to the protest flyer, the “Plan of Action” includes a gathering in the parking lot at Bel Air High School, followed by a march to the board meeting.
Teachers are encouraged to bring signs “explaining what you will NOT be doing anymore after or during school for the [2012-13] school year. Activities such as after school clubs, lunch help, Talent Shows, Dance Committees, extended day field trips…NEED TO STOP!”
Any truth to all HCPS teachers calling in sick on May 31st?
We can not do that. It would be illegal.
Stop voting for David Craig.
No truth to that at all. Would be an offense punishable by dismissal
Let the strike, and I hope they all get fired. No one forced them to be teachers. There are plenty of people out there looking for work who would gladly take their jobs.
You are stupid. You are probably a non-working skinny blonde, one kid, and drives a huge white Escalade.
and I’m sure all these potential replacements are very qualified for it?
I presume you are one…..So do it! Apply online at HCPS.org!
I would like to see you be told you would be getting x number of dollars increase in pay each year just to get nothing. I came to this school after working for years in another state. I was told HCPS was one of the best districts, and it is, for the kids. Teachers here are unappreciated. We are told “thank you, thank you for all that we do, we appreciate you for all that you do”, but words won’t pay the bills. Most of us would like to have families of our own and be able to send our children through HCPS, but honestly, we cannot afford to have our own children. I moved here relying on my step increases (they are not a raise, they are a contractual obligation) to pay for graduate school and help me pay down student loans. Graduate school has come out of my savings and I am only paying the minimum on student loans. While I would love to help my students after school, with the way things are going parents are going to have to hire tutors to do that because I will need to get another job during that time.
How so?
Wild cat strikes never work
yea..and everything that HCEA has done the past 3+ years has helped too.
This is so shameful. These are the people who hold our children’s education in their hands. Cost of living has gone up, taxes have gone up, but their pay stays the same. As a parent I may not always agree with my child’s teacher but I respect what she does. Teachers have molded who I am. Some had such an impact that I can still hear their words today, encouraging me to learn more, be more. How can we keep asking them to keep sacrificing more and more every year.
Thank you for your support, unfortunately far too many have forgotten the role that one or more teachers have played in their lives. It is because of those people that society has collectively looked down upon teahcers as professionals and see no reason to support, encourage, and fund education.
@Aberdeen resident
Go tell your neighbor who’s out of a job, who can barely pay her mortgage and is delinquent on her property taxes that you want to give well paid teachers a raise when she and many others cannot afford to pay their bills.
Patrick,
Haven’t there always been people that can’t pay their bills, been delinquent on the property taxes, and have lost their jobs? By your logic, teachers and other county workers should never get a salary increase. If there wasn’t any money to pay for salary increases, this wouldn’t be an issue. The county currenly has a $90+ million surplus. It’s time for teachers and all county workers to be paid the salary they deserve after having sacrificed for the citizens of this county for the last 4 years. If they are not compensated, the citizens of this county will no longer receive the services that they have come to expect.
@HCPS IS ATROCIOUS writes “If they are not compensated, the citizens of this county will no longer receive the services that they have come to expect.”
Bring it on, baby. We can do more with less of you, we just haven’t tried to yet.
You do recognize that all county employees are suffering at the political ambitions of David Craig, right?
Exactly how will an underpaid police force help you?
Exactly how well will Harford County continue to prosper with ignorant, uneducated morons are socially graduated into the work force?
Is your desire to have the worst public services in the country?
I swear Patrick, you sound like a complete idiot.
@ANOTHERHCPSTEACHER writes “Exactly how well will Harford County continue to prosper with ignorant, uneducated morons are socially graduated into the work force?”
But we already suffer from teacher incompetence and failure of teachers to do their job. Why should we pay you more to maintain the deplorable status quo?
@Patrick:
Exactly how have you determined that teachers are incompetence and are failing to do their job? I can only surmise that you mean ALL teachers are incompetent and NO teachers are doing their job, since you don’t say otherwise.
Imagine a world where doctors were evaluated on the results of physical exams of their patients, and were punished accordingly when the patients did not follow their doctors’ directions.
Imagine a business model where a supervisor or department head was evaluated solely on the productivity of their employees without having any input into their hiring or continued employment. These employees remain employed regardless of their production quality or quantity until they decide to quit working or commit some egregious act of violence or fraud. Minor acts of violence or fraud are rewarded with brief paid vacations, and acts of insolence are largely ignored.
I invite you, Patrick, and everyone else who believes so wholeheartedly that teachers are the problem (and the only problem) with our education system to take three days and be a substitute teacher in a Title 1 school. Even if your only takeaway from the experience is “what’s wrong with those kids, we didn’t act like that when I was in school”, then my point is taken.
I guess being a part of the machinery making Maryland Public Schools #1 in the nation isn’t enough, huh? Explain to us then, please, how it is possible to come in first in a race equate to your statement, “But we already suffer from teacher incompetence and failure of teachers to do their job. Why should we pay you more to maintain the deplorable status quo?”
Being #1 is deplorable? Honestly Patrick this statement tells me and anyone reading it, that you have absolutely bankrupted yourself of intellect and cut to straight out lying.
I will say this, though, at least you are not arguing Harford County is too broke… we know that lie doesn’t stick. And this latest lie you’ve told doesn’t either. Want to try again?
Better yet, we presumed you were a fool, you opened your mouth (sort of), removed any doubt… perhaps it would be better for you to just remain quiet and not do yourself any more damage. [Of course, you are likely just a 13 year-old troll I initially thgought you were.]
Patrick,your a damn fool. Keep talking buddy…and show us just how ignorant you really are. You think you can do more with less teachers..good, if you have kids (and the world can only hope haven’t spawned your seed), pull them out of HCPS…home school them…send them to private school…if you think teachers are worthless. You’re obvioulsy one of the people that have gone as high in life as they ever will and more than likely utter the phrase “would you like fries with that?” daily at your job because you thought you didn’t have to pay attention in school. Keep talking buddy…it’s amusing as hell.
Patrick,
Obviously you did not get a good education because your arguments do not make any sense. Education begins at home and do not place the blame on the schools. Teachers just want what is promised in their contracts. God bless you!
Well since the HCEA choir chants all teachers are great and Maryland has the greatest schools in the US then we we don’t have to worry about ANOTHERHCPSTEACHER’s contention that “ignorant, uneducated morons are socially graduated into the work force”. It’s not happening now, right?
Since this was such success I am posting it again.
@HCPS IS ATROCIOUS writes “If they are not compensated, the citizens of this county will no longer receive the services that they have come to expect.”
Bring it on, baby. We can do more with less of you, we just haven’t tried to yet.
I love watching the unhinged, become well unhinged. It’s great comedy!
Another favorite post re-posted –
@ANOTHERHCPSTEACHER writes “Exactly how well will Harford County continue to prosper with ignorant, uneducated morons are socially graduated into the work force?”
But we already suffer from teacher incompetence and failure of teachers to do their job. Why should we pay you more to maintain the deplorable status quo?
Come on in to my class of 33 and work your magic. And then next year when we are down a person in our department, come handle my class of 37 or more. I’m sure you could do SO much with so much more. I’ll help you out but remember we are only trying to maintain the deplorable status quo, so don’t challenge these large classes to learn just play babysitter for an hour and 20 minutes. It’s easy right?
Thank you Thank you Thank you for your post!! Its about time someone stands behind the county workers and not just the TEACHERS!! We are all county workers and all work hard for this county and the citizens not just the teacher who “teach” are children!
We have always been behind you. We believe that all the public servants in this county should receive a living wage and should receive their contractual salary steps. Notice I didn’t say raises. They are two different things. Also, might I suggest that the county workers contact AFSCME and begin to unionize. Your counterparts in Baltimore County make more money and have much better healthcare. Their number is 410.547.1515.
Hey Patrick,
Harford County unemployment, as of March 2012, is at 7.0%, which is down from 7.4% from March 2011. The current national unemployment rate is 8.4%. In March, 2009, Harford County unemployment rate was 7.4%.
However, prior to 2009, between 2000 and the unemployment rate in Harford County had a low of 2.5% and a high of 5.6%. Harford County seems to routinely have an unemployment rate at about 1.5% to 2% below the national average.
“Go tell your neighbor who’s out of a job, who can barely pay her mortgage and is delinquent on her property taxes” – Not many are out of a job.
“that you want to give well paid teachers” – Not really well paid. Remember, teachers sacrifice the private sector pay for stable job with stable income. Not well paid at all. A teacher, working in the “real world” with similar education and time in the position would make about 50% more. Granted, they wouldn’t get part of the summer off, but they would be eligible for other perks, such as bonuses.
“a raise when she and many others cannot afford to pay their bills.” – A contracted step increase which was allegedly negotiated in good faith with the BoE (with the alleged consent of the county).
Anyways, have a nice day.
@Paul Mc
Are your taxes too low?
Are HCPS teachers delivering a good product?
Are there any Harford County folks who are underemployed or simply not counted as unemployed?
Have you read the entire teacher’s contract and is HCPS in fact, in default? What are the remedies?
Hey Patrick,
“Are your taxes too low?” – The taxes are what the government dictates them to be. I pay what is required by me.
“Are HCPS teachers delivering a good product?” – Maryland has the best schools in the US, Harford County is above average in Maryland. Does that make the product good? Besides that, in teaching, just like in any other profession, there will be good employees and bad employees.
“Are there any Harford County folks who are underemployed or simply not counted as unemployed?” – Of course, however, there are also those that are unemployed simply for the fact that they choose to be unemployed.
“Have you read the entire teacher’s contract and is HCPS in fact, in default? What are the remedies?” – Yes, I have read it. As for HCPS being in default, that is debatable. The specific language of controversy between the teachers/BoE/County is in a “note” at the beginning of the negotiated agreement which basically states anything requiring funding is basically subject to county approval. Now, without delving too deeply into this, a quick answer as to is HCPS in default is, maybe. In any contract, there needs to be a meeting of the minds and it would need to be negotiated into in good faith; meaning, the BoE (with the tacit permission of the County) could not enter into a contract with the teachers which allowed for step increases over a period of time with the knowledge or belief that they would not be able to fund it. That would be bad faith. There have already been a couple decisions which seem to say the BoE has acted in bad faith.
So, are they currently in default? Well, the court ordered them to negotiate in good faith. I would imagine that if they fail to do so, the court may find them to be.
As for the remedy; this is very tricky. Can a court, on its own, through a court ordered mediator or arbitrator, or via some other means, order the county to fund raises? I have not looked into that. Other possible remedies would be shifting of current BoE funds (which it appears the County would need to approve) from various departments in the bloated Tomback system. Another remedy would be the state getting involved. Though, any time the state gets involved, we all seem to lose.
In the end, I believe a compromise will be reached, what the full details will be are up in the air. I believe this because the couple rulings that have been handed down seem to favor the teachers. I don’t think the BoE or Harford County would want a judge to make a final decision on this. (Of course, I have been wrong before and will be again)
My opinion is that there will be a couple step increases over the next few years; maybe something like 2 increases in 4 years or 3 in 5. But, that is just my opinion.
Anyways, have a nice day.
@Paul MC
Great response to my post – “Have you read the entire teacher’s contract and is HCPS in fact, in default? What are the remedies?”
Very well thought out, kudos!
That is a bone of contention between HCPS and HCEA.
Don’t feed the troll.
Well Harford County govt. can start being more accountable and hold Office holders like the Sheriff more accountable. He wastes your tax dollars and no one cares.
Finally! Someone finally used the “w” word – waste. There is so little accountability up and down our government – how ’bout they cut some of the waste and see where that lands us? That also goes for the BOE and our schools – do what every business in America has been forced to do – cut wasteful spending, then you might see what’s left, and what’s important. Most of are forced to pay our taxes – that in turn funds our schools. I am disgusted at the way my money is tossed around – poor stewardship by our public servants – just keep voting for these clowns!
@Fed Up
HCPS and HCEA will never work to be more productive or reduce waste. The reward for greater productivity is less taxpayer money in their budget and fewer jobs.
It is simply not in the interest of HCPS or HCEA to be good at saving taxpayer money so it will never happen if it is left up to them.
I have heard that the Instructional Facilitators and other administrative-type employees will be keeping their high salaries when they are put back in the classroom. Does anyone know if this is true?
Patrick – Even a fiscal conservative like myself tune you out when you use the phrase, “well paid teachers”. Although I demand smaller more effective government, you and others do give me reason to believe that some people at least in this county have little or no respect for teachers or the job itself. For me, I give quite a bit of credit to most of my teachers who inspired me to pursue my interests and challenged me to push myself. Not all fiscal conservatives want to fix the financial mismanagement of government by crushing our public employees. Several of these folks are my neighbors and friends. We have asked them ad others to sacrifice for three or more years, and now we need to at least look at some alternatives to the current proposal of “if you are unhappy then quit”. Afterall, education is the key to keeping our country competitive in a global economy.
We need your help. Speak out for us!
I have always supported David Craig but, as a result of this issue alone, he will no longer get my vote. I am all for fiscal responsibility, but give teachers the money they deserve. As the husband of a teacher, I am well aware of the significant amount of personal time (and money) that teacher’s dedicate to their work.I encourage all teachers to read this and send a clear message by working only their contracted hours. No volunteer meetings, not extra activities, not taking papers home to grade. It’s time to prove a point and every teacher needs to take ownership of this issue and send a message to the county government.
I don’t disagree with the sentiment, however teachers’ contracts aren’t with the county executive or county government, but with the school system. David Craig and the County Council could send an extra $10 million to the school system with the intention of funding raises, but the Board of Ed would be under no obligation to spend that money on raises.
If I were a teacher, I’d be mad as heck about how HCPS is spending it’s surplus, not how county government is spending theirs.
Really, I just sent David Craig a Check. Glad to see he is keeping the greedy unions under control. The teachers are so great they just got a waiver from the White House EXEMPTING them from No child left behind. Randy Cervany was a sorry excuse for a teacher. He spent more time talking about Comic books then he did teaching Math in his class.
To George,
If you would like to engage in an intelligent person to person conversation about why Md filed for an exception to NCLB and what the state is doing to replace and compensate for the shortcomings of the accountability system set forth in NCLB, I would be happy to speak with you.
Just to set one fact straight right now: President Obama chose to give each state the choice to stick with NCLB or to waive it in favor of setting higher standards for student learning and teacher accountability. No one from the state went begging for a waiver from NCLB because our schools can’t produce positive results under the law.
I am not a teacher in Harford County but I stand behind them and their efforts to establish a viable income for themselves and their families.
To George,
If you would like to engage in an intelligent person to person conversation about why Md filed for an exception to NCLB and what the state is doing to replace and compensate for the shortcomings of the accountability system set forth in NCLB, I would be happy to speak with you.
Just to set one fact straight right now: President Obama chose to give each state the choice to stick with NCLB or to waive it in favor of setting higher standards for student learning and teacher accountability. No one from the state went begging for a waiver from NCLB because our schools can’t produce positive results under the law.
I am not a teacher in Harford County but I stand behind them and their efforts to establish a viable income for themselves and their families
I struggle with all that is going on in the county right now. As a teacher at a Title 1 school, I can say without a doubt that what is happening is not fair. I work 2 jobs just to make ends meet in my family. However- I did not go into teaching to be rich. I went into it because I love what I do and I want to make a difference in the lives of children. For many of my students, school is the safest place for them. It is a place where they can feel protected, valued and loved. As for working to my duty day, I will not do that. I care about my students enough that I will not let this battle hurt them. I will continue to have mentoring lunches with them, I will continue to spend my free time and money to create exciting and thought provoking lessons for them. I will not let them suffer just because I am unhappy with what is going on. I just wish we were appreciated enough that we were given the raises we were promised and have planned for. I will continue work hard for my students because they need me, if only the county could realize what we teachers need as well.
I am sure The Money Tree and Patrick will appreciate your sacrifice if only for the fact that your efforts will not cost them any additional money.
This is a deeply personal and difficult choice. I respect your choice to continue doing what you do for the sake of your students. I have to put my own family, children, bills to pay first this time, as difficult as this is. As a colleague and professional, I will hope that you respect and support the actions of your fellow teachers who choose to continue to do their jobs educating students in excellent fashion- but sacrifice all extras in solidarity with others who stand with us -as we follow Work To Rule.
Whatever you have to do- do- and I will likewise- but as teachers- regardless of our decision on this matter- let’s be certain- we’re on the same side.
I fear that my comment was misunderstood. I agree 100% that we are all on the same side and are doing what we need to do to deal in this situation. I am most upset that this needs to be a choice teachers have to make to begin with. Unfortunately, this is an issue at all and we are not being given, once again, what we have been promised. It is disheartening to all of us who put our hearts and souls into this job day in and day out, and it is sad that in some cases the students are suffering along with us. I respect everyones effort to stand up for our rights, I just wish it didn’t have to happen at all and we were granted in “good faith” what we deserve.
There is a third option I plan on using.
I will continue to arrive at school 2 hours early to plan and prep the high quality lessons I always did.
I will use the back door to exit to the parking lot and reenter with my co workers.
I will leave at the end of my duty day to go work my second job tending bar.
I will not be availible after school unless required anymore.
I will not be availiblee in the morning for students to get tutoring and will only make myself availible on Friday mornings for make-up tests.
I will not buy supplies for sudents who forget.
I will buy all lab supllies with school funds, not out of my pocket anymore.
dear EVERYONE: HCPS is not the problem. they have no real dog in this fight. the county council works through them. if negotiations break down, it’s because the school board can’t negotiate with money the council hasn’t given them. blame the council, not the board. there are good people on the board who genuinely care about the students AND the teachers, but their hands are tied. Full disclosure: I believe the contracts should be honored and teachers should at least get their steps or colas or whatever.
Dear TEACHERS: who are you going to hurt if you work only your contracted hours? I understand that you have a point to make, but that tactic only hurts the students who you all claim to care about so much. Also, have you ever considered that the union might be just as much a part of the problem as the County Council, or HCPS, or whomever you blame? Get rid of the union and pay teachers according to merit.
God Bless,
Jeff
Jeff,
You are very correct in that working to contract will only hurt the students. My wife is a current HCPS teacher and she brought up that point just yesterday that she can’t do that to her students. HOWEVER…my point to her, and everyone else who feels that way…is that it is very unfortunate that it would hurt the students, but that may have to be the “collateral damage” in this war on teachers. It would indeed hurt the students, but in my opinion, only in the short term. Once varsity sporting events, after school dances, intramural sports and after school tutoring stopped, parents would be in an uproar (especially if sports were cancelled…some parents don’t care about the extra academic help their kids are offered…for free…after school). This in turn would cause HCPS/the BOE to reconsider how they treat their teachers and I would almost guarantee things would change immediately…and a settlement would be reached over salary. It’s sad, but it’s reality. The question is, how many teachers can stomach doing that when the kids will suffer in the short term?
Jeff,
HCPS is part of the problem. Tomback offered to cut our pay by 2% to balance the books for the school budget.
I disagree that students will get hurt if we simply do what we’re paid to do. That is absurd. I feel too many students require the extra help because mom and dad won’t give it to them. Why help your kid with their homework when the teacher will gladly GIVE time for it?
When you are prescribed medicine – do you stay after at the doctor’s office to make sure you take it? Believe me, many – not all – of the parents in Harford County really need to get a taste of how much they get for free.
ANOTHERHCPSTEACHER
perhaps if we didn’t practice the BS of “social promotion” a lot less kids would need extra help. perhaps Mom and/or Dad is/are working 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet, just like some of you teachers are, and simply do not have the time to help their kids with homework. maybe teachers aren’t providing enough instruction in class (for a multitude of possible reasons; i’m not pointing fingers at you).
and I wasn’t just talking about the extra academic help. what about the sports, the drama and art clubs, and everything else that teachers do for the kids?
Maybe the current contract is part of the problem. maybe it’s just a crappy contract. don’t know, i haven’t read the whole thing yet. mostly because I work full time and help 4 kids with their homework and after school activities.
just sayin’
Thought I was done on this topic, but Jeff I see you posted directly to me… it would be rude…
Social promotion is not teacher directed. I suggest strongly you learn more about this before even hinting we are part of that problem.
The problem is easily solved. Extra tutoring help is available through a center for about $75 an hour. More time people spend with their kids the lower that dollar amount goes. My tutoring time will be a bargain at $50 an hour.
I used to help kids prep for AP exams for free. That will end. A course to assist with prepping for that test runs about $1400. I’ll be self-sacrificing and charge only $1000.
Next year, I’ll still do these things, but it will be on MY TIME and it will COST YOU. The anti-teacher folks around here think the free ride will continue – it won’t. So when you’re writing those checks, just remember – you wanted it this way.
ANOTHERHCPSTEACHER –
I’m sorry you mistook my comments. I was not implying that social promotion is a “teacher thing”. In fact, most teachers I know are strongly opposed to it.
You highlighted one issue causing students to need extra help: lack of parental involvement. I do not discount that that is a BIG problem; I was just trying to point out other possible causes.
I never accused you of anything. All I said was that working to contract, as suggested, would hurt the children. The more I think about it, it can’t be very good for the public’s perception of teachers, either.
There are many concerns within the school system. One of them is the county’s failure to honor the current contract with HCEA in payment of step increases. Anyone with common sense will understand that a legally-binding contract must be honored, and I hope the county comes around quickly. while we may differ on a variety of other concerns and how they would best be remedied, we at least agree that you should be paid according to your contract. I simply think that ‘making a point’ by working only your contracted hours is not a good idea.
Again, best of luck in your contract negotiations.
God bless,
Jeff
P.S. don’t feel obligated to reply; this thread has obviously caused you some stress. I won’t think you rude for not responding. take a break, spend some time with friends and family, have a cocktail, whatever. you deserve it.
Jeff – Yes, we are only hurting the students by working to contract however this will eventually happen if this continues because teachers will be forced to go to PA, Cecil County, or Baltimore County where their teachers are treated better. The damage that is being done to our spirits with this lack of respect and appreciation is disheartening. It makes it more difficult to become enthusiastic in the classroom when our effort and energies are not valued.
You mention that we should go by merit pay, however that system has large potential to fail. I know many teachers who hand pick their classes, and would choose the best and brightest and leave the rest of us with the most difficult classes. As well as that, there is no way to test the students on their understanding based solely on teacher instruction, there are many outside factors such as socioeconomics, family involvement, social lives, and family dynamics, maybe if we could go home with the students every night and act as a responsible parent then we may be able to test based on merit, but that is not possible. Parents want us to raise their children and teach them social skills, right from wrong, and academics, all within a 50 minute period. This is impossible. Once parents take responsibility for their children, and I’m not talking about all parents, then maybe we can discuss merit pay, but until then, forget it.
I’ll tell you that as a parent of kids in hcps that I find the product of their teaching to be execrable. Being “the best” school system in this case does not necessarily equate with “good”. Every time I turn around it seems there’s yet another “in service” day. Classes are dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. Sucess is punished, mediocrity rewarded and failure overlooked. It was the same when I myself was in hcps. If I could afford to send my kids to private school I would not hesitate. This, in my opinion, is why teachers unions campaign so hard against vouchers. They cannot compete on merit.
All that said, I still have a soft spot in my heart for several teachers who gave me a Passion for learning. Unfortunately a few good apples cannot unspoil the bunch.
Parent,
I think you need to look at where you’re placing blame for certain things. Another inservice day…classes being dumbed down…that is the fault of the school system and not the teachers. As a former HCPS teacher and the husband of a current HCPS teacher, I can tell you with 100% certainty that most teachers feel the inserice days that are forced upon them (it’s not their doing…school systems make their teachers go to these inservices during the school year instead of before or after it) are a complete waste of time. Most would rather be in school actually teaching. Classes being dumbed down? You can thank state mandated tests like MSA and assanine curriculums like Everyday Math for that. Teachers are basically forced to “teach to the test” (MSA) nowadays. If they don’t, the students who never pay attention in class, the constant behavior problems, the ones who’s parents don’t do anything to promote learning at home, will fail the test. And when enough of them fail the test for enough years, the school is put on a watch list and if they continue to get poor test scores, they lose their federal funding. And when schools lose their federal funding, teachers lose their jobs…all becuase they were forced by the school system to “dumb down” the curriculum. You can thank No Child Left Behind for that. Do yourself a favor and Google “Everyday Math” and read the horror stories of parents all over the country who’s kids are being failed by this curriculum. The teachers in HCPS that were on the math curriculum committee advised against HCPS purchasing this curriculum…they were ignored and it was purchased anyway. And it stinks. I can attest to this not only as a former teacher, but as the parent of an HCPS student. The curriculum is so bad, that my wife and I have to basically re-teach our daughter how to properly solve math problems so that she can actually learn. She gets straight A’s in math DESPITE the curriculum…not because of it…because she is lucky enough to have parents who care enough to work with her at home. Again, this is not the fault of teachers…they specifically warned against instituting this curriculum. Yes, there are teachers who have no business being in education. But now that I work in the private sector, I can tell you that problem exists everywhere. I’ve worked with people in my line of business that are lucky they’re employed ANYWHERE…much less in my industry. There are FAR more good teachers in this county and in this country than bad ones, trust me.
When is this going to be on LOCAL NEWS? It is great the teachers are trying to shed some light on what is going on in the county, but until it hits the news and makes some noise nothing is going to really happen. Our bubble of Harford Co. needs to be broken and others need to know what kind of surplus is being held and how the superintendent is making the kids and teachers go beyond for those “Hurricane days” when other counties were already waived. He did not even bother to ask to have them waived. Other counties are done the 8th, other counties at least give their teachers a little something each year, HCPS is really screwing the teachers. I agree that times are hard, but my kids teachers work well beyond their standard work day to help them, and sadly all they can do is say they will work to contract. Any connections with WBAL or another channel???? If another school plans this, hopefully other parents will support what they are doing for us and call the news stations!!!
Other counties are finished on the 8th because they have weather days built in to their school year. Harford County doesn’t. If we miss a day for inclimate weather, we make it up.
I don’t have a big problem with this.
I call BS on this –
“I think you need to look at where you’re placing blame for certain things. Another inservice day…classes being dumbed down…that is the fault of the school system and not the teachers.”
The union and teachers have long complained that there is not enough time for planning within their day, so the board has given all of these inservice days in order for the teachers to get paid for planning. Your union and your contemporaries complained, and this is what happened. Stop blaming the school board for everything. Most of us are with you, not against you, in your protest for more money, but some of you spout off this drivel like you know everything, and the rest of you simply check the “like” box because the poster is pro-teacher, not because he or she is correct, which he or she is sometimes not.
Our hands are tied. Private school….. great idea, where the kids are actually allowed to be held accountable and if they screw up they are kicked out. I personally have taught several who come out of John Carroll for doing something stupid or inappropriate and now they are thrown back to public school. We try to bring rigor and parents complain. We discipline and we are told, “my kid wouldn’t do that”, or the administration tears up the referral, or making teachers change grades. It is sad, and we teachers are frustrated. The moral in many buildings is terrible and we can only look up to our administration for guidance. And when administration changes from year to year, so do policies and procedures. Depending on the school, this may be a losing battle. You bring up some true points, but please note that many times it is far beyond what a teacher can do. You are clearly a parent that seems to support academic challenges, but many parents say that in one breath and then call complaining when their child is struggling.
Yep, and the HCPS will do anything to keep a stupid, loud mouthed parent quiet. Isn’t it time to tell parents with silly demands and stupid complaints to shut up and go home? No wonder the kids are out of control. Legitimate complaints, yes. Stupid stuff, no time for it. What are they going to do? Take their brats elsewhere? If they were going to do that they would have already gone. Some of the brats have already been to private school and the private school has said “No thanks, go somewhere else.” This attitude that everyone has to be happy no matter how goofy their demands and complaints is nonsense.
I would suggest all interested parties read the current contract before formulating an opinion. As much as a lack of step increases may frustrate teachers the number of benefits and expectations for teaching are generous. Take into account teachers are contracted to 187 days and 37.5 hour weeks. That means a work year of 1402 hours…at 60K that’s $43.00/hour, that doesn’t include 90% taxpayer covered health insurance, retirement, sick time that they can cash out to 200 days…yes, that works out to tens of thousands at retirement, paid sabatical, extra pay for extracurricular activities, special tax advantages, etc. Read the contract – there’s all sorts of goodies in there. Holding a sign that reads “Honk if you support education” is disingenuous…this isn’t about education, it’s about the contract and step increases and what unions have done to education and pervasive sense of entitlement. We may chose to increase teachers pay, but why all teachers, why not give raises based upon performance and effort?
Money Tree,
Crap! I hate it when someone actually gets the facts and accurately applies actually math to the situation. Performance pay? The HCEA is never going to agree to that. Not sure how that picture of the guy in the jeans made it on this site. Kinda spoils the whole message when you think of teachers as professionals who old advanced degrees and then see that as an example.
‘spoils the look of the protest’
Thus the reason that particular picture was chosen…
Perhaps his school had a jeans day (when teachers pay into a charity pot for the privelage of whereing jeans). Maybe he had a field trip in which the whereing of jeans was appropriate that day. Maybe he changed for his second job. BTW there is not a dress code according to the negotiated agreement. You might see more of this to come!
I was indirectly commenting on the nature of The Dagger for typically presenting teachers in an unflattering manner.
If given the option of a somewhat slovenly looking fellow in jeans and another in a suit then The Dagger will pick the one they did.
I’m sure there were people dressed otherwise and besides official school hours were over.
Yes, as I wrote before, I am priviledged to teach in the same school as this gentleman in the jeans.He is an excellent teacher, creative and motivating . The day in question was a “jeans day” where teachers donate $5 to a worthy cause and in return are allowed to wear jeans. Just another example of the selflessness and giving nature of your teaching community.If you were come to our school (BAMS) for a visit on any other day, you will see a professionally dressed staff.
Now, let’s focus on more important matters!
I happen to work with the gentleman in the jeans. He is an excellent teacher who engages his students and gets them excited about learning. This particular day in question was a day when we had a fundraiser for a worthy cause. Teachers donated $5 and in return they we permitted to wear jeans to school that day. Yet another example of the selflessness of YOUR teaching community.If you had come to our school on any other day, you would have seen us dressed professionally as usual.
Please, let’s keep petty, silly comments like this out ofnthis venue.
sorry about the typo (for the editors among us!)
No they are contracted for 190 days!!!!! My wife has not used a personal day (which is not a free day as she still has to write plans for it). She also can not use them whilly nilly.
There is no paid sabatical!!!!!!
Look under Sabatical Leave XIII, in the contract…section 13.8 grants you 1/2 wage during your satatical – which can last as long as 2 years before the teacher is required to return to the classroom. If you read through the section it allows for paid sataticals with approval in instances where the sabatical is for education and can include travel. You need to read your own contract.
Now ask when the last time a paid sabatical was granted…..Ryan?
Can’t tell you the last time it was granted. I do know people have been denied recently. However, it really is moot. Who could live on half their salary these days?
BTW I am not a HCPS teacher…..my wife is!
As far as I know, a sabbatical for a teacher has not been funded for over 30 years. I once asked Supt Haas about it- as I was considering a year for full time pursuit of a doctorate in Special Education. I was told that there had been no money budgeted for that purpose for years- nor would there be.
So much for the “contract”.
Money tree,
What is a satatical? I just hope you do not have any children in HCPS.
37.5 hours a week. BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAH. yea….that actually happens. How do dumb people figure out how to use the internet?
Money Tree,
Not all teachers make at least 60k/year…first year teachers (and in Harford County, since nobody’s gotten a step increase in 3 years, 4th year teachers) make about 20k less than that. And hardly any teacher works 37.5 hours per week…like people in the private sector, most work more than that. What special tax advantages are you talking of? The $250 tax credit my wife gets on our taxes for spending about $1,000 of our hard earned money on her students each year? Yeah, that’s really helping. And I am sick and stinking tired of fools like you saying “taxpayer” paid this that and the other…guess what you schmuck…teachers are taxpayers too.
Money tree,
You need to get your facts straight! Where in the world did you find that teachers make $60,000 a year. This may be true after many years of teaching and then getting advanced degrees and classes to keep our certificates up to date which we do not get very much reimbersement!
Do you think teachers want inservice days- not for one moment! We have to follow curriculum guidelines and stay on target to meet state core standards. We want to be in the classroom and not in meaningless meetings! Why not support educators who really care about the youth who are the future for Harford County. Have a heart!
That goof standing on the brick needs a raise so that he can buy some new attire. If I were to demand more money I think I would try to look a little more polished in the process. Maybe next time those dressed professionally could stand a little closer to the cameras. If you’re wearing a t-shirt or jeans (or in this case, jeans that haven’t seen the laundry in over a week) do your co-workers a favor and stand BEHIND the lady in the pink and white dress or the men in slacks and dress shirts.
Agreed.
Don’t feed the inflammatory news cycle that is happening here.
Dress for Success,
I’m glad your biggest conern is how the teachers who were there AFTER SCHOOL were dressed…I didn’t realize this was an episode of “What Not to Wear.” What would you like to pick on next…their favorite color?
Former,
Is it your suggestion that this guy went home to change into that? Isn’t standing on top of the school’s sign enough for you? Many teachers feel it’s important to always dress and act in a way that shows they respect the students and their profession. When’s the last time you saw a sloppy State Trooper? Don’t protect the lazy, call them out. It drags down the entire group & it’s not fair to those who bring their “A” game.
Dress,
That’s not the point…the point is, if all you can pick on is how certain individuals are dressed…well, it just shows you have no real arguement, and that you’re a petty person just looking to trash teachers.
Could be he did that. Maybe he felt it drove home a point that once school is over you can not dictate the clothing choices of the teacher. BTW I saw plenty of poorly dressed state troopers at the pooler bear plunge in sweats and all!
I saw a state trooper talking on his cell phone while driving. What would you prefer…he break the law (and drive dangerously!) or be sloppy?
Dress,
Maybe he does not make enough money to support his family to buy the fashionable clothes you think he should wear. Stop sweating the small stuff and concentrate on what is right for all the county employees and not just teachers!
Monry Tree
Need to get your facts straight.
Health insurance is not 90% and is not funded by taxpayers. HCPS is self insured and has over charged its employees the last two years.
The school year is 190 days by state law. This does not include the additional days teachers commit to the beginning and end of year for preparation for the coming year and the next year.
Are you referring to the state pention plan that has been butchered and is being pushed on the counties to cover what the state has ‘reappopriated’ over the years to cover other expenses ?
Coaching pay doesn’t even cover what we shell out to help the kids with equipment.
What tax advantages?
Nice try…could be Patrick using another name…
@READY TO BE A FORMER TEACHER
First all, the compensation you receive directly or indirectly as a result of teaching in HCPS is from taxpayers.
Secondly, if HCPS doesn’t pay 90% of teacher’s health insurance premium how much do they pay?
Patrick(or should I say Mr McGrady),
HCPS pays 90% for HMO coverage. It pays 85% for other plans. The other compensation you speak of does not apply to elementary and middle schools teachers. Likewise, it does not apply to after school events before the 9 hours are fulfilled for HS teachers. You are ignorant and misinformed.
@Ryan Burbey
So I guess READY TO BE A FORMER TEACHER doesn’t know that taxpayers pay their salary and that if they sign up for the HMO 90% of the premium is paid again, wait for it…taxpayers?
@READY TO BE A FORMER TEACHER
If you quit being a HCPS teacher I’ll buy you and Former HCPS Teacher a cupcake to share.
Ryan,
Fact check -I am in the PPO plan that the HCPS Board pays 90%.
Sorry, I forgot about the crappy PPO with the ridiculously high deductible that HCEA fought to get replaced with the better PPO which has a 85% copay and almost no deductible.
Patrick,
Teachers are taxpayers too cupcake. Stop using faulty logic.
Again I reiterate,
don’t feed the troll.
@Former HCPS Teacher
Yes they are. You are correct.
Yes; overcharged for which you were returned the excess. Your success apparently depends on people ignorant of the facts. Jesus..it was a month ago where ya’ll got that money back. It was in a form of a free month of health care deductions. Come on; you’re not playing with somebody that doesn’t pay attention here.
Money Tree,
If you were REALLY paying attention…you’d know that JUNE is the month teachers get the healthcare benefits holiday. And you make it sound like the teachers get a check cut to them for a months worth of healthcare payments. They don’t get it taken out of their paychecks for a month.
What difference does it make…??? If you’re “forgiven” a health care payment for a month it’s still a benefit; still more money in your pocket, right? Let’s get real here.
It is not a benefit…..it is a refund of over payment! county collected x in healthcare benfit premiums and spent x-8 million they are refunding a small potion of that 8 million.
Is your health care not a benefit? I’d say it sure is…and with 90% of the costs paid by Harford County taxpayers it’s a pretty darn big benefit.
Money Tree… you’re kidding right? Here we go again… Let’s enter a contract wherby you exchange services in lieu of payments. Payments are done up front. It turns out you collected more money than you needed to perform your services. You return the money not used. That is called “getting your change back.” I swear my patience with your willful stupidity is fading.
Of course it’s a benefit. If your premium is reduced and the coverage remains the same, you’ve received a greater benefit.
If it were the other way around and teachers had to pay more in premiums for the same coverage what would it be called?
Patrick HCPS recieved 8 million back they kept 7.2 million and employees got 800,000 back in the form of a premium holiday. It is a refund for over payment.
I can’t even imagine a person ready to be a former teacher that spells pension..pention. God help us. How in Gods green earth do you correct papers?
‘ Just leaving an apostrophe for the know-it-all Money Tree. (God’s green earth. Possessive.)
190 days with 3 “free” days excused, not even considered sick days (those are separate and accumulate at 1.25 days/month, up to 200 days and are paid out whenever. That means it amounts to 187 days. Wanna prove to us that none of the teachers out there take the 3 days?
@READY TO BE A FORMER TEACHER
You should work on your spelling and sentence structure unless your next job is digging ditches. It’s fascinating that with your dubious writing and communication skills you are a teacher.
READY TO BE A FORMER TEACHER are you really a teacher?
Patrick you are nothing more than worlds biggest jackass
@Clueless
It seems that READY TO BE A FORMER TEACHER is somewhat clueless since they can barely write, they don’t know that taxpayers pay their salary and that 90% of their HMO insurance premium is paid again by taxpayers.
Patrick,
Since you’re now the grammar police, you shouldn’t use “they” when referring to one person…it’s grammatically incorrect.
@Former HCPS Teacher
Singular “they” and “their” are often acceptably employed when gender is unknown.
@Former HCPS Teacher
Any additional grammar lessons for me, teacher?
@Former HCPS Teacher
I guess from your lack of response to the use of singular “they” and “their” you’ve realized you look foolish in your mistaken grammar correction!
Patty,
No, my lack of response was me working and not having time to dick around on the dagger. Here you go…correct this: **** ** *******
Stay classy, Former HCPS Teacher.
It is paid by HCPS not taxpayers.
@Ryan Burbey
Does HCPS have funding source other than public funds from taxpayers?
Yes, a significant amount of HCPS budget is currently funded through grants. Why you ask? Because simple minded folks like yourself seem to think that one of the most poorly funded (17th out of 24) counties in MD somehow has an enormous budget. HCPS like all other governmental agencies has indirect funding and indirect accountability to taxpayers.
@Ryan Burbey
So you think grants from the government are from some source other than taxpayers?
A big part of your problem is your sense of entitlement and lack of accountability.
I feel sorry for the children you teach. I wish we could give them better than you.
Hey Braintrust,
You do realize that many grants do not come from the government…
@Ryan Burbey
Unhinged are we Burbey.
I was specific about government grants.
And once private grants are granted to the school district it becomes public money accountable to taxpayers.
Now if you are talented enough to write grant requests to help support schools more power to you. Do you think you can get enough grant money to fully fund HCPS?
@Patrick, the health insurance is paid by the employer which to you it can mean the taxpayer but to employees is just paid by their employer, not the taxpayer or citizens in the county. County employees work for the county/school/police/emt’s/911 or any other public function which pays employees to perform duties for the residents of the county even if they don’t pay taxes or own property in the county. Nothing is free in this world and in fact property tax burden is lower now that it was 10 yrs ago prior to the Bush tax cuts and property taxes have been cut for a number of years. I guess from your posts that it doesn’t really matter what anyone has to say, you will still act like a spoiled brat and quite frankly you need to bring better arguments or points to support your ideas which so far haven’t been able to convince anyone that you really have a point in this thread other than to annoy and piss people off!!!.
Name That Tune – another example of sidestepping the facts. We had this argument earlier on another thread to which they (the prounion supporters) folded like a cheap suit. Fact is private sector coverage using my numbers was a 50% employee contribution, given the best number to prove thier case was 30% private sector employee contribution. With the average annual coverage rate of 15K, the difference between 30% vs. 10% for teachers is 3K per year. I won’t listen to whining over it – those that are paying for that very generous benefit are paying far more for their own. I’d love to see how may teachers use the county health care for the family plan rather than the private sector plan their spounse has available. I promise you we the taxpayers are subsidizing families too and big time.
Money Tree,
This was one of your former posts: “I can’t even imagine a person ready to be a former teacher that spells pension..pention. God help us. How in Gods green earth do you correct papers?”…by the way, it should be God’s, not Gods.
Now, since by this post, I can assume you think you are better than Ready To Be A Former Teacher, let me grade this current post:
“to which they (the prounion supporters)”…pro-union should be hyphenated.
“Fact is private sector coverage using my numbers was a 50% employee contribution, given the best number to prove thier case was 30% private sector employee contribution.”…there should be a comma separating is and private as well as one separating coverage and using. Also, the word “their” is misspelled.
“I’d love to see how may teachers use the county health care for the family plan rather than the private sector plan their spounse has available.”…a person’s husband or wife is their spouse…not their spounse.
“I promise you we the taxpayers are subsidizing families too and big time.”…sentence makes no sense and there should be a comma separating you and we.
All this sidestepping…the point is it is true that teacher’s only pay 10% into thier own health insurance. In the private sector it’s anywhere from 50 to 30%; that’s thousands of dollars in your pocket that the private sector worker does not enjoy. By the way they not only pay higher costs for thier own coverage but subsidize 90% of yours. That is not meant to insult teachers…I find it funny that merely pointing out the truth is labeled “an attack” by most of you. It surely seems clear to me that teacher’s don’t want to discuss the plethora of benefits because it weakens the demands for more money.
I hate myself for replying to you again, but here it goes…
Stop this side stepping accusation. You began your tirade against teachers claiming the finances of the county were on the ropes. You were either lying or misinformed. You then went after terms of the contract regarding hours worked, etc… Again you got schooled in the truth. Now the benefits angle…
You are correct – the county pays 90% of my medical. Those were the terms to a document I did not draft, but signed onto. If you like this benefit – quit YOUR WHINING and join us! There are several vacancies in my building this year!
I will quote you here: “In the private sector it’s anywhere from 50 to 30%; that’s thousands of dollars in your pocket that the private sector worker does not enjoy.”
Fair enough… compensate me commensurate with private sector employees who earn a masters degree. Restore my steps. When the dust settles and I’m bringing home the extra $10K-$15K, I will gladly pay up to half my benefits.
“By the way they not only pay higher costs for thier own coverage but subsidize 90% of yours.”
Since I pay taxes, I guess you can also argue I pay into my benefits twice. So perhaps my share may be just a smidgen higher than you think.
“That is not meant to insult teachers…”
Bull.
“I find it funny that merely pointing out the truth is labeled “an attack” by most of you.”
It’s the lack of truth in your assertions that draw the attacks.
“It surely seems clear to me that teacher’s don’t want to discuss the plethora of benefits because it weakens the demands for more money.”
Only if you hate teachers. This is about the failure of the county to honor a contract term. They LIE when they say they cannot afford it. So if public employees in this county roll over and take it on that contract term, then what comes next? If the county is going to act like a contract is a worthless piece of paper it does not have to honor – what agreement do they that has to be honored? I said it before and I will say it again – you are a fool’s slave.
Hey Money,
“We had this argument earlier on another thread to which they (the prounion supporters) folded like a cheap suit.” – I was actually the one that did the most arguing with you and I am in no way pro-union. I am pro-contract and pro-education. I think the union system is antiquated. However, as they are still around, and as I don’t run the world (yet), they need to be addressed and utilized. I also think our education system is broken. It seems to have become broken somewhere around the time the Department of Education was created. Thank you Jimmy Carter….
“Fact is private sector coverage using my numbers was a 50%” – The wrong number.
“employee contribution, given the best number to prove thier case was 30% private sector employee contribution.” – Which is the correct amount.
“With the average annual coverage rate of 15K,” – We agree on something at least.
“the difference between 30% vs. 10% for teachers is 3K per year.” – Yes, 3K a year. Now, lets take into account the fact that teachers, with a Master’s Degree, typically get paid about 60K, which is significantly less than those in other professions with similar education and time in service. So really, you are going to complain about the teachers health care being 3K cheaper?
“I won’t listen to whining over it –” – Actually, you seem like you do listen to it (or read it, at least), as you continually respond to it.
“those that are paying for that very generous benefit are paying far more for their own.” – Ok, it is not very generous, and they really aren’t paying far more. Lets be serious hear. 3K more isn’t really that much more.
“I’d love to see how may teachers use the county health care for the family plan rather than the private sector plan their spounse has available.” – Why would they make such a poor financial decision?
“I promise you we the taxpayers are subsidizing families too and big time.” – EVeryone is subsidizing families. But, not the teachers. The teachers work an obviously thankless job, are constantly criticized, lied to, harassed, under-paid (based solely on negotiated contract), and do a job that most couldn’t, and wouldn’t do.
I find it amusing that people complain about the teachers, when in reality they should be complaining about those that willfully break binding agreements, arguably in violation of the law. Maybe it is just me, but I do not support people that break contracts, be they teachers, politicians (though, what else would be new with these folks), officers of the law/court, or your average everyday citizen.
Anyways, have a nice day.
@name that tune
All compensation paid to Harford County employees is paid with taxpayer money. Your employer has no money that is not public money. You are beholden to taxpayers for your livelihood.
The point that was being made was that the money comes from a county system and not directly from one tax paying county resident to another who may not even reside within said county.
The goods and services contracted for are theoretically independent of source and destination of funds used to cover the agreed upon costs.
In reality source of course plays a role and is the reason the county should not have agreed upon a contract which they have no intention of upholding.
Individual members of the county which does not live up to its’ contracts in good faith should be wary of current and future promises from this county.
Today the teachers, tomorrow you.
I guess now I’m guilty of feeding the troll.
that is plain bull…, while I do perform duties for the citizens of the county, my employer pays my wages. The taxpayer owes the county TAXES and I OWE my employer by best skills and time for a mutually agreed wage. Your view is pretty wide open and not quite true. If I worked for the taxpayer, it would mean that all taxpayers would be my boss and I would owe them my fiduciary duty? I work for the county and the county pays me, the taxpayer in this instance is just a customer.
@name that tune
You serve the public. You are paid by the taxpaying public. You are a public servant.
@Patric- I agree with this post, however I am not beholden to the public I serve nor do they pay me anything. My pay is derived from taxes, yes however I get paid for a service that I provide. Being a public servant has its benefits to me. I am known in the community and I have made many a contacts which will probably pay me more once I retire from the county (3 yrs ) and not one day more. I will cash in my 100% sick leave and put in for my pension which is my fair compensation from putting up with leeches like you whom think I am “beholden” to them. You probably pay less in taxes than you think and complain about paying “more and more” each year. I see you type every now and then. You guys come in complaining because you can’t have it your way, you call your senator, congress person or state delegate and whine about how you “pay taxes” and you aren’t getting something that someone one else whom was eligible to receive. Usually, that resident gets back to me and I have to spend the taxpayer’s money and look up the rule, law or regulation and send it to you in letterhead from the county and you then can hire your attorney or legal aid to go to court and lose there in front of a judge. You sir are a complete tool…
@ name that tune
so long story short…
I got mine, fu(k you buddy.
that’s what you meant to say
reffering to taxpayers as customers is disingenuous, at best. a customer in any other circumstance, has a choice. harford county residents who earn a salary that breaks the tax-exempt threshhold have no choice in the payment of their taxes. Likewise, not every taxpayer has children in HCPS, and therefore cannot be a customer, as they are not recieving a product or service from HCPS.
It is that outlook, in large part, that has put a sour taste in the mouths of many harford residents about this issue. just to make it easy for you, this is a summary of how money flows:
taxpayers pay the county
the county council writes a budget and votes on it
meanwhile, HCPS drafts a budget requesting x number of dollars
HCPS takes what the county council allots them in their budget and deals with it, as HCPS has no revenue authority whatsoever
HCPS divides its allotted monies as they see fit, including the payment of teachers
thus, teachers are paid entirely with tax dollars, collected from taxpayers
As i’ve stated earlier, hcps should honor the contract that they have. it’s shameful that they have not. but they are not the only ones at fault. blame the county council too. blame hcea as well.
God Bless,
Jeff
Jeff the older tapayers are recieving a service. They get an educated future who will care for them in their old age. I agree a better term than customner would be client.
That said how is it HCEA’s fault that HCPS reneged on the contract?
Jeff,
HCEA is doing everything we can.
You Sir are a charlatan and a lout. We are also the tax payers! With every breath in my body I will fight the you and your pack of sanctimonious liars!
Your not helping by responding with reactionary statements.
I have grown tired of Money tree, Patrick and the rest of their ilk besmirching my colleagues, my students and my profession. From here on out I will call them what they are.
Did I mention that I was pissed last night…
When are you not pissed?
Working where you do I can see why.
I usually am not pissed at all. I love my job and I love where I work. I love the kids I teach. However, my local government disgusts me to the point of mindless rage sometimes. Then I get home and some troglodyte like Patrick is bad mouthing all of us. I just couldn’t take it…
@Ryan Burbey
You can’t call me liar since I have told no lies. Are you discomfited?
I dislike Ryan’s approach but I find you even worse.
Obvious troll is obvious.
Your entire platform is a lie. Your arguments for the “taxpayer” are really only to enrich yourself. Not everyone was born with a silver spoon in their mouth Patty.
I provide a service to the citizens of the county and they compensate me for the skills I earned to provide this service they are constitutionally required to provide in the Great State of Maryland to it’s citizen’s! FREE APPROPRIATE PUBLIC EDUCATION!
Here’s the “math” from a former teacher:
I regularly worked-
7:30-5 daily at school(47.5 hours @week)
2 hours each evening at home ( 10 hours@week)
4 hours each weekend
61.5 hours @week x 38 weeks= 2337 hrs during the school year
Plus ~50 hours during 2 extra weeks before and after the school year.
Total – 2387 hours per year
This total does not include after school meetings with parents, clubs, tutoring , committees etc.
Just the hours accounted for spread out over a year would equal 50 47.74 hour work weeks, with a two week unpaid vacation.
On today’s pay scale, I would posit a generous avg of $50,000 pay@year for a teacher who earns a masters degree. This equals about $21 per hour for an employee with a masters degree.
I have not accounted for extra hours as noted nor for out of pocket expenses for classrrom supplies etc.
This is NOT overpaid.
Think about this for a mo’:If a teacher was paid $5@hr per child for 6hours a day for merely baby sitting 25 children, s/he would earn $750 per day/$125@hour.
Sorry no longer buying he work at home, hours and hours story. I drive by the high school here in Fallston on my way home..ain’t a car in site. What do you do with the 45 minutes per day for prep you’re given?
You should be ashamed of yourself. If you truly question the hours the teachers in this county put in, I challenge you to spend one day doing a teachers workload.
Money Tree,
“Sorry no longer buying he work at home, hours and hours story. I drive by the high school here in Fallston on my way home..ain’t a car in site. What do you do with the 45 minutes per day for prep you’re given?”
Wow…ewe sur r stoopid fer sumwon hoo clames too bee so smert and bedder then uther peeple. Did you mean to say “the” work at home instead of “he” work at home? And if teachers are claiming to work for hours at home, why in the world would there be cars in front of the school…unless the school is their abode? Here’s another free grammatical tip for you…”ain’t” isn’t a word. And if you think 45 minutes is enough to do everyting a teacher needs to do to prepare for a day of lessons, well, you’re dumber than I thought you were.
I was an elementary school teacher. The high school day begins and ends earlier(2:30?) so perhaps you do not get a complete picture if you go past after 4pm. The “planning time” you refer to is used up very quickly. At least 10 minutes is spent delivering and picking up children from their special area classroom. The other 35 minutes is used gathering and preparing materials for the lessons to come that day as well as cleaning up materials from completed lessons. Answering/ making parent calls/messages is a prioity. IF you just calculate the time it takes to read and check journals, homework, and classwork for 25 students you will see that the enormity of the time demands far outstrip a 35 minute period- oh and maybe we should allow for a trip to the bathroom twice a day 🙂 -once during what amounts to a 20 minute lunch and again during that 35 min. planning as otherwise you cannot leave your charges (paid for with chronuc UTIs).
Home time is spent reading through curr. manuals and writing out lesson plans in Reading(3 different levels), Writing, Math (3 levels), Social Studies, Science, Spelling/ Handwriting and a once weekly computer lab lesson.
I am telling the absolute truth based on my personal experiences and those of the majority of my colleagues. been there- done that- honestly.
Really seriously so it takes all this time to create whole cloth lesson plans but out the other side of the mouth are arguments about how teachers aren’t treated like professionals and are spoon fed how they’re supposed to teach. You can’t have both arguments.
You should chastise yourself for the criminal misrepresentation which you perpetrate as truth.
You should take a breath before you respond to these messages.
Your behaving just as they want you to behave, that is, reactionary and emotional.
Again I was pissed. I am very tired of this teacher bashing crap, as well as, the taxpayers….crap. We are all taxpayers and our education system is pretty good. It needs improvement but it does not lie in the hands of teachers alone. Improvements require funding…
For the most part I agree, but money will not fix it. It will require a change of attitude on the part of the HarCo government and its residents.
Money,
What is a cloth lesson plan? You need to get a life and not spend so much time on the dagger! You have way too many comments that make no sense as is seen in responses to your posts. Maybe it is time to go back to work!
Anyone with teaching experience can tell you that you start with what is provided and required by the county and the curriculum guides and then use former experience and research to enrich, support and supplement in a way that will benefit the varying needs of many students. There is no cookbook- ask a sub who has ever been handed a set of manuals to teach from. If I had to be out, it would take me at least 3 hours to write sub plans so that the children would not have a wasted day.
@ money tree,
Are you suggesting that teachers are overpaid? Maybe you should consider a career change.
Should any teacher ever get a salary increase? I believe some have mentioned “merit pay”. If that is your suggestion, it seems to me that most teachers should get a salary increase based on “merit pay”. You see, any teacher that is currently employed in HCPS and returns next year has been deemed “successful” by their administration. That suggests that they are effective and deserve an increase in pay. And don’t blame the union for “bullying” administrators. If the administrators do their job, they can very quickly see to the dismissal of a poor teacher. I’ve seen it happen to two teachers in my school this year alone. If you disagree with that, then your problem lies with the administration whom is responsible for evaluating the teachers, not the teachers themselves. Maybe it’s time for you to support the teachers that are working within the system and to encourage the development of an objective evaluation system which more adequately assesses how effective teachers are. But your suggestion that most teachers are ineffective without specifying how you are measuring their effectiveness carries no weight. Contrary to what some believe, teachers’ unions are in support of reforming the evaluation system, as long as the changes are objective and fair….which is obviously the difficulty…how do you evaluate the effectiveness of a teacher when there are so many variables that are beyond a teacher’s control.
May I ask, when a teacher goes back to school for a Master’s degree or any other advanced training, does he or she receive any finacial help from the school system?
graduate tuition reimbursement for a max of $300 per credit towards a masters degree.
graduate tuition reimbursement for a max of $300 per credit (up to 6 credits) every 5 years (certificate period) post-masters degree.
graduate tuition reimbursement for a max of $300 per credit for doctorate up to 45 credits.
How much does a credit hour cost?
It depends on which school they attend.
If you do the absolute minimum then the reimbursement will nearly cover it.
If you go to a large name university you pay a hefty difference from your own pocket.
Depends on the school….most charge more than $300 per credit for graduate courses…Loyola for example where many teachers attend for admin and counseling degrees is more than $500 per credit.
It’s normally 3 or 4 credit hours per class and reimbursed at $300.00 per credit hour would credit $900.00 – $1200.00 per class. That’s plenty to cover local costs for a masters degree or whatever educational credits are being sought. The details are in the contract and easily found online.
Actually, you unrelenting jackass, it is less than half. The system does not pay for all the credit hours. There are limits. Perhaps, you should pull your head from betwixt you anus and your colon and smell some fresh air once in a while.
You really should not drink and post.
I do love teachers, just not you.
I normally don’t agree with anything Burbey says. But I respect the fact that he’s found his balls and has finally started fighting fire with fire. Some people don’t know they’re jackasses until you tell them. And Money Tree and Patrick certainly fall under the jackass category. You can only be nice to certain people for so long before you have to become agressive. This nation has become too politically correct, always worrying about who we offend.
It is not offending the trolls I am worried about. It is representing teachers as reactionaries.
Screw those two guys but don’t give teachers a bad rep in the process.
Sorry that I’m not on your love list. I am also sorry if I offended you or any other supports. I wasn’t drinking. I was pissed after the crap that went down at the County Council meeting.
@ Ryan
That I can understand.
I am with the teachers.
HCPS now requires an itemized list of expenses for tuition reimbursement. So my grad classes cost about $1300 total that I pay upfront. Then, at the end of the course I have to submit my expenses and the itemized report that has a $125 auxillary services fee, a $90 graduate athletics fee, a $25 technology fee, and a $6 student government fee that the school system does not reimburse. So, that’s $1300 out of pocket and the reimbursement I received was for $735.
Notre Dame of MAryland (another popular school) costs the teacher about $400 for a class after the reimbursement which HCPS does pay up front.
HCPS pays up front for VERY FEW programs (and to be honest, I’m not sure if they do at all anymore…I know when my wife started her masters 11 years ago, they did for certain programs, but not many). For the majority of graduate programs, the teacher has to front the money, then they get reimbursed for a portion or all of the tuition…depending on how much it cost. And they don’t get that money back until after the course is over.
They still front the money and get some reimbursement upon completion with a passing grade.
Hey all,
Don’t they get reimbursed 75%? And aren’t they required to continue their education?
Don’t most private companies offer some sort of education reimbursement as well? I know mine does, and it is much better then what the teachers get. I get up to $5200/year (so long as the classes are related in any way to my specific job duties, if I can relate the class to any job at my location, or with permission). Seems to me the teahcers don’t really have it so good here either.
Anyways, have a nice day.
Teachers get a flat rate per credit not 75%.
Yes what I had access to outside of teaching was enough for full coverage at a major and expensive institution on a part time basis.
Again, the lowest common denominator is encouraged. Teachers can’t go to the more expensive and theoretically better schools without paying from thier already diminished pockets for a standard which is mandated by the system.
I think you would be hard-pressed to find an education program with a private employer that pays up front. Most require you pay the bill (or take a student loan and pay the interest yourself), complete the class and submit your grade to receive reimbursement. If you’re taking classes consistantly, you’re recycling the same tuition money from semester to semester, so the teacher only has to come up with the funding one time.
HCPS doesn’t pay differently if your degree is from a community college or Ivy League, so why spend your own money for the more expensive degree if you have no plans of moving to a different system?
That’s because a more expensive private education is better than the taxpayer paid public education.
OOOPPPSSS! Public school teacher can’t say that!
And yes, I’m being sarcastic!
Kharn,
That is completely incorrect…the teacher has to come up with money more than once. 100% of what is paid upfront by the teacher is not reimbursed so for every course, a teacher is going to have to put some money out of pocket that they won’t get back. Nobody is complaining about this…this is an issue brought up by somebody that claimed that teachers get full tuition reimbursement and another that claimed the school system puts the money out upfront.
I know it is very few. My wife went to Notre Dame. This agreement which is unique to them is because Notre Dame agrees to acknowledge what the employer would pay after you EARN the appropriate grade. HCPS agrees to send them the money after the course. NDM only asks the student to pay their portion upfront. My wife chose NDM because Loyola required her to pay all up front and than apply for reimbursement. The programs at the two schools where of comparable quality.
If you are in the PhD program, it is more like $1,100…
As it relates to compensation for teacher education, one thing HCPS does not do that many other counties do is offer a masters +60 salary schedule. This leads to 2 things: 1) teachers no longer furthering their educations significantly beyond 30 credits after earning a masters degree AND 2) HCPS not being as competitive with other counties’ salary schedules. This on top of HCPS not having salary steps beyond 15 years of service, where most counties provide salary steps to at least 20 years with most to at least 30 years.
Yes but most counties do not provide longevity increments every 5 years. My friend is making almost $80,000 as a teacher in HCPS.
You won’t get those either under a frozen system.
Besides, encouraging further education would be better than encouraging people to sit tight in the system waiting for pay increases after 15 years.
Neither does HCPS. If your friend is truly making that much they have been teaching in Harford Couny a very long time.
HCPS is contracted to give longevity increases, whether or not they will is another issue.
Agreed. My wife has taught for 22 years in Harford County and has her Master’s Degree plus 30 credits. She is not close to 80K. This “friend” must be a 50 year veteran! Laughable actually, since everyone has been frozen for the last few years.
HCPS teacher making 80k? HAHAHAHAHAHAH…omg…HAHAHAHAHAH. Now I’ve read some crazy rants on this site, but this is classic. Oh wow I needed that.
>insert rimshot sound effect here
Administrators making 80K? Easy in their first year! Teachers? Get real.
If your friend is making that much, they have either a masters degree plus 30 credit hours beyond that or a doctorate AND have been teaching for AT LEAST 20 years.
Hey dress to impress. The gentleman you are referring to actually wears a tie everyday to work. Teachers paid five dollars to wear jeans to raise money for a local charity. Your comments just show how society has such little appreciation and respect for their teachers. Maybe you should stop being a fashion expert and come into a classroom and try to teach. I bet you won’t hold a candle to that teacher…. Blue jeans and all!
Hey all,
Why are some of you worryong about the way people dress or their speling and grammer? Seriously, discuss the points, not the meaningless junk.
Anyways, have a nice day.
worryong *worrying
grammer *grammar
I hope that irony was well intentioned…
tongue firmly in cheek
@Paul MC
You’re kind of interesting.
If only you’d retire your closing line “Anyways, have a nice day”. It’s so dislikeable.
Hey Patrick,
I don’t use the closing line to offend anyone. I actually mean it. I don’t like to end a discussion/debate on a bad note so I truly offer anyone I talk to, debate with, etc, a heartfelt have a nice day.
Paul Mc (This one time for you, Patrick, I won’t use it)
@Paul MC
Thank you for the accommodation, very thoughtful of you!
I noticed that Maryland was one of a few states that just got a No child left behind waiver. Im guessing because the teachers here are so good.
it was because NCLB is so good.
Hey Grind,
“I noticed that Maryland was one of a few states that just got a No child left behind waiver. Im guessing because the teachers here are so good.” – Of course they got a waiver. NCLB sets impossible goals. By 2014, schools are supposed to have 100% of the students at grade level for math and reading. Also, thus far 19 states have received waivers and 18 other states have applied, and will likely receive waivers. NCLB is not about the teachers, it is about an idealistic and unrealistic thought that all students should be at grade level for math and English, no matter the circumstances.
Anyways, have a nice day.
NCLB – a concept developed by education bureaucrats that have no idea of what classroom instruction is really like and asinine politicians.
As a veteran elem school teacher and parent of young children, as well as a product of HCPS, it makes me so sad to read how many people are not supporting teachers’ efforts to have their contracts fulfilled by the school system.
Most of us owe our education to public school teachers. And, quite honestly, most teachers I have known over my 15+ years in the county are extremely hard working and put students first. They also spend a massive amount of their paychecks on their students.
I am proud to be a teacher. I’m happy to have a job and appreciate that I have great benefits. But…that does not excuse the fact that HCPS is not honoring their end of our contracts. I do my job. I fulfill my contractual obligations and then some. I just want HCPS to do the same.
I challenge anyone to work as a teacher for one week. It is exhausting work requiring far more than 8 hours per day. People talk about “summers off”. I don’t know a single teacher who has a whole summer off. I haven’t had a summer off in my 21 years as a teacher. Did you know teachers are not only required to continue their education but they must pay for more than half of each class out of their own pocket? Teachers have 45 minutes of planning per day to create lessons, make copies, grade papers and contact parents. There are HS teachers with student loads of 180 children. Essays take approximately 20 minutes to grade. You do the math. Teachers get a 20 minute lunch. People who even attempt to imply that teachers should be “grateful” for their jobs have no idea what the job requires.
I second that invitation. I would be happy to host anyone who thinks teaching is so easy for a week at my school. I’m at a challenging school, so my job tends to be a bit harder because I have the addition of getting my students to behave since I am evaluated on it. Everyone think they are an expert on what teachers do because they attended school. I would never even pretend to know what it’s like to be a Target cashier even though I spend an awful lot of time in Target. It’s not the same! If folks spent time in my school for a week (or maybe even a day!), eyes would be opened and maybe some of these posts wouldn’t be so wicked.
BTW..If you do take me up on my invitation to come to my school, will you bring the central office administrators? They never come down to see what it’s like either!
My initial response in reading the above comments is just “WOW”. Seriously?? Comments on who is wearing what?? Since my son attends RFE I would have shown up in a bikini and stood right beside that man if I thought that it would have made a difference. Thankfully, for the community and the embarrassment it would have caused my family, I was not aware that there was a protest scheduled. Kidding aside, I do not pretend to know all of the facts and/or negotiations concerning the teachers pay and benefits. But what I do know is that without my kids’ teachers and their TRUE dedication to their profession as teachers we as parents would have alot more to be concerned about than a guy wearing a pair of jeans.
I am a teacher and belong to hcea. Lets get some facts straight. First hcea is a association, not a union (illegal in MD). Teachers cannot strike, and hcea has very little power, as we can see. That being said all teachers should belong to hcea, as they represent us in negotiations.
Can we stop the taxpayer talk. Teachers, and all hcps employees pay the same taxes, and we go out and spend that taxpayer funded salary in all areas of the private sector.
What I find odd is that teachers didn’t cause the economic downfall, but yet we are suppossed to take the blame? I know times have changed, and I haven’t had an issue putting more into the pension or my health care costs. The teacher payscale, and benefits package has been published for years, but when times were good we didn’t hear complaints.
Moral is low, and it will affect your children’s education. Teachers will still do their job, but the little things that made impacts on kids that are not required will soon disappear.
LETSBEREAL,
I agree that HCEA has very little power, as you noted, but they did have enough power to step between the teachers and the county government to delay a bonus payment. Anyone who can stop me from getting my bonus has more power than I want them to have over my finances. The ironic thing is that I mostly agree with the position of teachers who are claiming they signed a contract in good faith and it is not being honored. Just let me make some points on the issue.
First, HCEA is an ineffective and very poorly led organization that, while not a union in the strictly legal sense of the word, acts in many ways like a union. What you should realize is that they are not doing the cause of most teachers any real good. Many members are quitting the HCEA and/or are not renewing membership. The HCEA will not release membership data for that very reason. I challenge them to release the number of members they had at the end of each quarter for the past 5 years.
Second, any organization that protects the small number of poor performers at the expense of the large number of good performers does not benefit the teachers who perform well or the students. I challenge the HCEA and the HCPS to notify the parents of every student who is being taught by a teacher who is being counseled to improve their performance.
Third, this issue will not be resolved as long as the current HCEA leadership is in power for reasons enumerated above. Also, a large part of the problem is that the BOE is not locally elected. Their allegiance is not necessarily to local taxpayers. That tends to make them unresponsive.
Third, there are abuses of power and position in the administrative and leadership of the HCPS from Tomback down. That has to stop and if that means Tomback and his management team must be replaced then let’s get it done. Trust me, if Tomback wakes up tomorrow morning and figures out that the petty abuses of some mid-level administrator or principal is threatening his job it will stop by lunch time.
Finally, the budget of the HCPS has enough junk in it to make a liberal Democrat puke. There is enough money being wasted on crap to do some good for the employees. If we look at the budget and try to individually justify every position that does not work in a classroom teaching kids we could save tons.
Taxpayers, and I know teachers are taxpayers, don’t mind paying a contracted wage to teachers but there is a lot of stuff that gets in the way and must be fixed.
Alex,
If the end game is simply to weed out poor performers (which has a process already), weed out waste/fraud/abuse of taxpayer funds in HCPS, and/or attack the poor leadership of HCPS – my question remains: Why does this have to be done at the expense of the majority of HCPS teachers that put Harford County on the leading edge of a curve that has Maryland public schools in the #1 position?
You understand TEACHERS have no powers over these areas of contention, yes? To argue that teachers are merely collateral damage is dishonest.
There are MANY ways unhappy taxpayers can fight the problems you cited without negatively impacting the majority of teachers in this county that are good and dedicated at what they do.
The failure of the County Council and Executive to fully fund teachers’ earned contractual terms is simply because they can. Craig has his eyes set on the governor’s mansion that he’ll never get. Who on the council has their eyes on Craig’s job? I’ll tell you who – any one of them who voted not to fund education last night. Thus, as long as they can campaign on fiscal conservatism that was earned on the backs of their law enforcement officers, sanitation workers, road crews and teachers – what will stop them?
This is not about anything you mentioned… it is political posturing at its worst.
Alex,
If you are not a teacher and not a member of the HCEA then you have no cause to attack the leadership of our association. I have had the pleasure of knowing and working with Randy Cerveny and he is an honest and caring man. As a teacher for many years ,he was respected by his students and fellow teachers. He was math dept. chair for many years and head of the technology program at BAHS. This man always had the time and went out of his way to help others. With this background and respect from his students and colleagues, he is totally doing what is right for the teachers and their contracts. We are honored to have him as our president.
Some of the school board is elected but not enough to make a difference at this time.
Yes…it is making a difference. We need to make sure that in the next election we make a bigger difference.
We are a union. They are not illegal in MD. It is simply illegal for us to strike. There are other teachers’ unions, namely BTU, Baltimore Teachers Union.
I am just wondering, what would be the consequence if we did strike?
You can be jailed.
Actually, the rank and file would not be jailed. It would be the Board of Directors, of which I would be one. However, that will not happen. HCEA is not endorsing, supporting or organizing a strike. It would be illegal.
I believe that the last time HCPS teachers went on strike was about
1975. The primary consequence was that the association was fined and suspended from bargaining for the teachers for a number of years. Which is a bad thing – no matter what criticism you might level toward HCEA- they are the only collective voice for teachers in the contractual process. By the by, that year I made shy of $8,000 as a 2nd year teacher. If anybody seriously thinks that the salary and bene progress that has been made over those years would have happened without HCEA representation,they are woefully mistaken. Squeezing a dime out of HC has always been a battle royal. Teachers here should add ” professional begger” to their resumes. There are many in this area who want something for nothing. As more and more McMansions have been built and the daily lines at our ever multiplying restaurants have grown, we still don’t want to get up off a few more cents for the collective good of our children.
And just why do we not get more state funds? Could it be because we elect representatives who are ineffective gadflies?
It is because our elected gadflies refuse to increase funding. Thus, they are losing state support.
I find it disturbing that Harford County has $6 million budgeted to construct a new facility for the Humane Society of Harford County so it can continue its same operation in a brand new facility, but Harford County teachers can’t get a raise and are expected to spend their own time on programs for the county’s children. What’s the rationale for that?
Because teaching has never been a profession paid by the hour?
What does that have to do with pay by the hour?
At one time, teacher pay in Harford County was very competitive when compared to surrounding counties. If you google the pay scale and compare, you might still argue that it is competitive…until you realize that no one has progressed up the scale for the last three to four years. So, while teachers in Cecil County have been moving up their respective scale, teachers in Harford have remained stagnant. Compare a year four educator in Cecil to a year one teacher in Harford. The difference is approximately $4,000 for a teacher with a Bachelor’s Degree, $5,000 for a teachers with a Master’s Degree, and $4,000 for a teacher who has 30 credits beyond a Master’s.
So everyone should be careful when attempting to compare Harford’s scale to other counties. While ON PAPER it looks competitive, in reality it is lagging behind counties with inferior tax bases and lower property values. Harford County has been getting a real bargain for the last few years. It is time for them to step up to the play and make salaries competitive again.
Teachers are not asking to be the top paid in the state. They are asking to be competitive with surrounding counties, especially those with lower per capita incomes. We should value those who work with our children and pay them on par with surrounding jurisdictions.
When engaged in a PR battle, it helps to dress appropriately (jeans and crocs? lol) and not climb on the expensive brick sign.
Kharn,
His clothing was because he donated money to a charity such as cystic fibrosis. The jeans are worn as a representation of that donation. The teachers do this 15-20 times a year giving to local charities and organizations. Bringing looks into the discussion is no different than bring race, ethnicity, or some other discrimination in. The message is the same no matter what the man is wearing. That message is simple: The educators of the county’s youth is just about finished giving anything above what they are paid to do, the time for pissing and moaning is over and the time for action is upon us” It is a shame that students will miss dances, talent shows, Hoops for Heart, field trips, and clubs but that is not the doing of the teachers. The finger needs to be pointed at the Super and the Board of Education. They have enough funding to make it happen but they choose to waste it on 1500 white boards, 2000 activ-votes, 1000 lexmark scanners, and that is just waste in technology. Next move to positions and the money is there… Take issue with the TREMENDOUS waste in HCPS not with the 3200 (mostly great) teachers that want to work for their students.
Does not matter:
Regardless of if he wore the clothing to school or changed in the locker room before protesting, he is now the poster-child for HCEA’s greivances against HCPS.
Whenever I know that I’m likely to end up in the newspaper in the course of my employment, I wear a suit and take care not to climb on objects not designed for climbing. First impressions are long-lasting, and his photo is definitely not going to help HCEA win any endearment from Harford County taxpayers.
Well then I like that “poster child” and all that he represents which is a man who is casually dressed (it could have been “casual Friday” in which you donate to a charity such as the Cancer Foundation)and who is indicative to alot of working adults, including our Government employees. So if I happen to see an extremely well dressed person protesting I will stop and provide you with bottled water because you will defintely need it–being dehydrated and all.
I understand all your pain. This County Executive has his own agenda and is out of control. He won’t give county employees or teachers a raise but he will try and fund a transfer station in a residential neighborhood in Joppa for 3.5 million dollars in just start up costs alone without any community involvement. He overpaid for the Old Plecker Property with tax payers money and without getting an appraisal. And has his staff members making over $100,000.00. It looks like we all have a battle on our hands so dig in and remember Craig in the next election and whatever office he pursues.
Given the impending closure of the incinerator, a waste solution is required. The County/Army relationship has not been friendly for some time, and with the closure of the incinerator the lease for the site will terminate. The county’s landfill cannot accomodate all of the trash generated by the residents without significant expansion, so either a new incinerator or a transfer station must be built.
Eitherway he overpaid for the property because he was to lazy to do it right!!!!
Maybe we can locate the incinerator next door to his house and drive the dump trucks through his yard?
The County/Army Relationship has been misrepresented by this administration. Councilman Guthrie and Woods met and spoke with Col Ortiz and shed the true light on things. Trash is a problem and always will be but remember this if he can put it in a residential neigborhood now your neighborhood could be next. Route 7 can’t handle anymore traffic let alone 70 trator trailers daily along with school bus traffic and it will significantly affect emergency response times. Residential homes will be within 200 ft of all the noise that goes with a waste transfer station. The money could be spent more wisely right now. Since the contract currently runs until 2016.
Teachers are paid according to contract, and they have a contracted number of hours. Not only have they given much of their own time to student activities, they have paid for many things out of their own pockets. I understand that, as a professional, working beyond normal hours is considered the norm. But I don’t think most professionals would continue to do so at their own expense, and most certainly not when they’re not being recognized for their contributions.
The above comment was meant for KHARN in response to his comment on my last post about the fact that the teaching profession has never been paid hourly. Sorry it misplaced itself!
It sure would be nice if we were actually paid according to our contract…
WHAT?
Sadly, the long range focus has been lost. Teachers teach students and students are the future. Our success as a nation rests with their ability to be competitive. All sides should be able to see the critical nature of education and quality teaching. Today’s students will create a climate of success and change if we put the best professionals in front of them. Teaching is a demanding job when you care enough to do your best every day. Most of us do! Sadly, most of us have faced the fact that money will not be poured into education. Sadder still is the disrespect. I am a professional and I give all that I am to make my students ready for tomorrow. The thought of what will happen if they are not ready is frightening. That is what more people should consider. I am teacher. I am underpaid. Times are tough for everyone, but a little respect goes a long way to make it better. Where do you think this nation will be in ten, twenty or thirty years without top-notch teachers who remain in the profession?
A fifth year teacher in Harford County is making the same as a first year teacher. What incentive does this teacher have to stay in Harford County? He or she can move to another county and not sacrifice years of income. You’re kidding yourself if you think this is the way to attract and keep high-quality teachers. Harford County needs to honor our contracts. I have taught for 18 years in Harford County and have had my step-increase frozen for a third of that time. We love our students and our jobs, but we’re tired of being taken advantage of
NONE…….Not only can they move to another county and get rreated better they can get a raise!!!!! Baltimore and Cecil county place you on the appropriate step so that teacher would go on step 5 when they start which is a big jump in salary it amounts to about $400 a pay check!
Perhaps rather than express concern over the attire of one teacher after school, the readers here- and the powers that be- should be concerned of how it looks to the best qualified new teachers when deciding where to go -to see pictures of teachers so angry, beat down, and tired of being lied to that they are taking desperate measures and picketing on street corners rather than plan the next lesson or sponsor a club. And there should also be concern that if something doesn’t change and the PUBLIC doesn’t put the pressure on that it will only get worse. You may think ” work to rule” won’t impact you or the teachers in this county or the kids- but sadly we may be on the verge of seeing just how much it will. and that would be a terrible shame for all involved as we see the ends of clubs and activities that for many are the life changing, meaningful parts of school. we are about to watch the ruin of education in Harford County- and then you will get what they have been paying for the last several years and really HAVE something to complain about. It’s a sad, sad, shameful day in education.
What’s with the guy climbing on the school property? Great example. Wow.
He is sad because he could not hang out with his communist friends at an occupy march.
Since when did protesting equate to communism?…I guess when you don’t agree with the message. I’m glad to see that when you have nothing intelligent to add to a conversation, you resort to childish namecalling.
Okay HCPS BOE and the uncaring public,unhappy changes are coming your way!… I left Harford county with several other teachers a few years ago. Now, more teachers are planning to leave. Those that stay will soon “work to rule”. Public servants always seem to be the ones who get the least respect. Shame on all of you who cannot see the importance of respecting a contract. …so sad I had to leave my students…so glad I now am earning seven thousand more that what I had been AND I have a wonderful administration! Harford county teachers my thoughts are with you all!
I am totally depressed after reading these comments! Are the students I am giving my heart and soul to going to turn out to be Harford County citizens that feel like this about education? What is happening in this county?
This is what happens when rednecks and yuppies meet.
Both sides are obstinate stupid fu(kers.
No, it’s what happens when the taxpayers are tired of public employees attempting to extort higher paychecks. If HCEA wanted steps/COLAs to be guaranteed, they shouldn’t have signed a contract with a subject-to-funds-available clause.
The only problem with your argument is that the FUNDS ARE AVAILABLE for the salary steps and COLAs. I don’t see how it is extortion when HCPS negotiated and agreed to the increases. You can’t put that on the HCEA.
The blowhards on this site that are so anti-teacher are probably the ones who sat back and did nothing in your classroom…and then blamed you because they weren’t prepared for the real world.
Isn’t it true that HCEA is not a union rather an association and has no ability to strike or demand that all teachers are members? Would it then be fair to say that not every teacher is planning to work to rule and that this is creating a split in many schools?
Somewhat along that line but a separate thought: Is it possible to charge parents for programs extra for programs that require an after/before school commitment? Seems like a pragmatic solution to those taking up the slack of work to rule or a “step” toward merit pay. Even if all raises were in place and on schedule, there would still be those who… “work to rule”. Merit pay sounds practical in even the best of times but may be something that could start now for extra curricular endeavors. For example, should we be funding football if we can’t make payroll or should it be pay for play?
A lot of money is spent on extra curricular activities. Maybe these should be paid for out of pocket by the parents of students that participate, or the school system should pay an hourly wage to teachers and administrators that are forced to cover these activities which are beyond the scope of their real purpose. What is the relationship between a math teacher having to cover a football game as part of their teacher duties? They are being paid to be classroom teachers not chaperones. If you need staff to cover these kinds of events this should be on a volunteer basis be paid overtime.
The current HCPS/HCEA agreement states that teachers will perform chaperoning duties beyond the school day for a minimum of 9 (IIRC) hours per year, after which they’ll be compensated hourly.
Compensated hourly, but not at their hourly rate of pay. Teachers are compensated at $20 per hour to supervise after hours events.
The obligations of teaching vs chaperoning are significantly different, warranting the reduced pay. Standing around for 2 hours at a lacrosse game making sure everyone behaves in an orderly manner is much easier than presenting lessons.
Really? I would like to see you “make sure everyone behaves in an orderly manner” at a football or basketball game on a Friday night. And it isn’t always just the students that have to be supervised. Please let me know the last time you had to confront an adult, who had no respect for teachers to begin with, and tell them they had to leave their son’s basketball game because they were acting innapropriately. Yeah, that is definitely as easy as teaching a lesson in my classroom.
Only if they are high school teachers…Only if they have met their 9 hours which is required and only if it is on the list of approved activities. All other after school work is free.
Correct HCEA is an association. Teacher strikes are against the law in Maryland.
You can charge for activities. Many counties have a pay to play for high school sports. You pay an athletic participation fee. Some charge by the sport some charge for the year.
HCEA is a union. There is no real difference between a union and an association. We are not allowed to strike by law, nor are many other unions. As far as compelling membership, many unions can not do this either. That is determined by state law.
And to add insult to injury..HCPS also is holding the 3rd pay in June stating that the LEAP YEAR caused us to receive to much money for fiscalyear 2012…WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP!!!!!!!!
hey, moron… how many weeks are there in a year? 52. How many are there in this calendar year? 53. That third week would be a pay week in June… forcing a 21st and 25th pay for everyone… not what we’re contracte for. Can’t blame this one on HCPS. They didn’t create the calendar. Grow up.
Actually, I meant a 23rd and 27th pay… it is confusing, but still no malice intended by the system.
My co-workers and I concur…….Custodians are getting a RAW DEAL as well…..NO raise,NO COLA,NO STEP,NO BONUS,and we make LESS then the teachers….SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!
Sure understand the frustration…particularly given it appears in the past county works and teacher enjoyed 4 different ways to get salary increases. In the private sector there’s no such thing as COLA; if you get a 3% raise there’s no mention of cost of living adjustment, nor do you get steps, salary adjustments apparently based upon continuing to breath, and then these milestone bonuses for continuing to breath for 5, 10, 15 or so years. I wish everyone a fair wage based upon the actual hours worked and the quality of their performance – continuing to breath hardly warrants a bonus.
Hey Money,
“Sure understand the frustration…particularly given it appears in the past county works and teacher enjoyed 4 different ways to get salary increases.” – Four ways, really?
“In the private sector there’s no such thing as COLA;” – No, but the salary for private companies is far superior to government employees.
“if you get a 3% raise there’s no mention of cost of living adjustment,” – Again, higher salary, so no need for any COLA.
“nor do you get steps, salary adjustments apparently based upon continuing to breath, and then these milestone bonuses for continuing to breath for 5, 10, 15 or so years.” – Not exactly true. Many companies do give bonuses for length of service. Furthermore, many companies offer profit sharing, performance bonuses, and overtime. So, maybe private companies do offer ways to make more money.
“I wish everyone a fair wage based upon the actual hours worked” – As do I.
“and the quality of their performance” – In manufacturing, this is easy to measure. In teaching, not so easy. How do you grade a teacher who teaches at a school where the students, when they do show up to school, show up under nourished, unprepared for the daily lessons because they didn’t do their assigned homework, half asleep because they have no parental control, without proper materials (pencil, paper, etc.), high/stoned, argumentative, uncaring, etc?
“– continuing to breath hardly warrants a bonus.” – Time in service is something many companies pay for.
Anyways, have a nice day.
Okay Money Tree, my patience has been exhausted. Your version of truth is nothing short of epic political spin at its finest.
“Sure understand the frustration…” – Just stop this lying.
“particularly given it appears in the past county works and teacher enjoyed 4 different ways to get salary increases.” – Okay, this twist of truth is so misrepresented it’s not even laughable. Four different ways at four different stages of your career. They are not always concurrent, it is true a step and COLA may accompany each other.
“In the private sector there’s no such thing as COLA;” – Bull. I worked the private sector, I got them. It is obvious you work in the wrong field.
“if you get a 3% raise there’s no mention of cost of living adjustment,” – So when the employer says “we can’t afford raises, but here is an adjustment to keep up with inflation…” – the words are not used, but the intent is there – so it’s not there? Stupid statements require stupid sounding questions.
“nor do you get steps,” – You speak with apparent omniscience… prove this statement. Frequently a “step” is not called a step, but reflected in the job title. For someone so defensive of the private sector you sure don’t know it very well.
“salary adjustments apparently based upon continuing to breath,” – AND maintaining credentials, reaching professional plans for progress, earning satisfactory evaluations, etc… more than just breathing you moron.
“and then these milestone bonuses for continuing to breath for 5, 10, 15 or so years.” – Same lie, see above.
“I wish everyone a fair wage based upon the actual hours worked and the quality of their performance” – LIAR. Want to pay me by the hour? PLEASE DO, my income will DOUBLE!!!! Then look at your tax rate you dolt!
“– continuing to breath hardly warrants a bonus.” – One shred of truth.
There’s a whole lotta who shot John there. All of it muddled and designed to obfuscate and filibuster. I’ve been in the private sector a very long time…unless you work in manufacturing nobody, but nobody gets colas. You get a review once a year and an increase based upon performance – if you’re lucky and the company does well they might provide a bonus, it’s not common however and certainly not required.
Money Tree… interesting choice of words you used… is that how you would characterize your misrepresentations?
MT,
My son earned as much as I did (after 30 years of excellent performance ratings and a masters degree) in his FIRST year on the line at a local manufacturing plant. He earns an hourly wage PLUS quarterly profit sharing. He gets a raise every six months.
Excellent benes, no working at home, and -by the by- no union. He has a degree in education and chose to work on an automated production line instead of teaching because of the income differential.
Smart but too bad because he would have been an excellent teacher…
I have a 23 yo nephew who has a HS degree and, working for a HVAC company, he is paid more than I ever was.
And, re the paid sick days commentary? teachers get 25% of their actual worth if they hang onto them till retirement. It costs more to pay a sub than to pay for the unused sick days. So it is economical for the county.
Teachers are very important in our lives. Many people just don’t realize it. They deserve higher salaries. Teachers help to build our future. What would we do without them?
UPDATE: “Joining a similar action taken by teachers at Ring Factory Elementary School on Friday, approximately 40 Bel Air High School teachers left school for the day on Tuesday at 2:20 p.m., answering their union’s call for all Harford County teachers to work only the hours required by their contract with the school board.”
LOL. What other profession could the employees leave when their contracted day is over…and it’s front page news. “My work day is over and ya know what…I’m going home!…That will show them”.
A lot of talk about waste in the school system budget but no real examples given. Teachers know where the waste is so why don’t we see them give specifics? The school system budget is online so there should be an effort to show the waste by line item. If there is waste then show us exactly where.
Quite frankly, the underfunding of our schools is causing a large portion of the waste. For example, if the budget had enough money to replace traditional texts with digital texts and readers we could eliminate textbook replacement. Similarly, if there were enough money for students to each have daily access to a computer, we could eliminate much of the paper which is used. If there were money to fix aging schools we could save on energy costs…Get the pattern. As it stands now much of the current programing is funded through grants which will expire and indirectly by not funding contractually agreed upon salaries. At least, 3 million dollars of the HCPS operating budget every year for the past 3 years has come directly from teachers pockets.
You should all be ashamed of yourselves. You are only hurting the kids by walking out. Times are tough, we have all had to tighten our belts. I’ve had to taken on a second job to support my kids. Stop your bitching and come back to reality. Its not always about you.
Did you ever think that maybe the teachers left AT THE END OF THEIR CONTRACTED DUTY PERIOD (how is that unprofessional?) to go to their second jobs? I know I do everyday. I have had to put my own children’s well being above the needs of my students, at least when I am no longer being paid to meet my students’ needs.
Frank, when I’m not in the classroom I’m doing side jobs, run a side business, and am seeking now another part time position. Have not had a vacation in years. Don’t preach to me about tightening belts, etc… You should be ashamed for speaking in such ignorance. Besides – when is it shameful to leave your job when the day is over?
How do you have time to have a business on the side?
Well you should stop living beyond your means, or find another job. If you are so busy teaching, how do you have time for side jobs.
STAN or is it FRANK or is it BILL? At least you could make the posts sound like they could be from different people.
Who’s walking out? Teachers are leaving when their contracted day is over? OH…do you want them to hang around and tutor your kids for free? Is that it?
I took my kids out of Baltimore County schools to get away from the Liberal brainwashing Marxist teachers. Looks like they followed me to Harford County.
Dean, tell me, does it bother you that everyone now knows you talk like an idiot?
yes resort to name calling. That always works. How very sad you “educators” are acting. I think its time that teachers like ALL other county and state employees be subject to drug testing. Why are teachers exempt from this?
Don’t know but I will gladly take one in addition to the regular finger printing and back ground checks. This will cost the school system more money.
I have to tolerate the children who come to school with no table manners and throw their fruit like a chimpanzee from their free breakfast. I have to smile and be non judgemental when I ask them to pick it up and to cease from the behavior in the future. I have to fight the urge to tell their parents they have done a crappy job of raising them. I do that because I am paid to do that. You do not however pay me to be polite to you on the dagger. So I will tell you that I think you are a ignorant and condecending arse. If you want me to bend over and kiss your arse and act beholding to you, you will have to pay me an appropriate wage to do that.
Just like the children I do not surrender my Constitutional right to free speech!
Dean…try home schooling. I’m sure you will do a great job.
Those teachers ARE Marxist. They actually expect the county to live up to a negotiated agreement. How laughable! Now, they are working ONLY their required number of hours, failing to stay and tutor and provide club sponsorships for free. How dare they? I mean, in my world when people ask me to work for free, I readily agree. In my world, when a contract is signed it is completely acceptable for one party to wipe their nose with it. Those Marxist teachers….they make me laugh.
Why don’t you do everyone a favor and take them out of HCPS too and homeschool them…nobody needs your spawn in their classrooms.
The fact is the county cannot absorb teacher pensions and provide for step increases, cost of living raises, milestone bonuses and massive sick day accumulation payouts – all prescribed in the existing contract at the current tax rates. The only way to get what you want is to raise taxes; either that or revisit the contract and reduce some very generous existing benefits in exchange for step increases. You can’t have it all in this economy.
And why is raising tax rates, which Harford County actually lowered during a time when almost every other county in the state raised them, such a bad idea, especially when the county has built up an enormous surplus on the backs of its county employees whose salaries have been frozen for four years?
When you’re planning a budget it’s important to look at a trajectory of costs. With exponential pension cost increases every year and over time you have to look beyond your nose or you end up with an unsustainable cost structure. I know it’s hard to imagine, but the county is responsible for providing other services – those costs are also expected to continue to climb over time. Home values have decreased 30-40%. Actual take home pay has also decreased, as have the number of jobs by percent of population…this country has taken a big hit that may take decades to recover from. Raising taxes at least right now doesn’t seem the wise thing.
Pension costs are not exponential. And the property tax rates that were cut over the last 5 years saved each individual tax payer very little. To raise them back to what they were only 5 years ago would impact each individual citizen very little, but raise revenue significantly. Instead, the county executive has done the opposite for purely political reasons.
You teach – surely you can’t be that thick. There will always be an ever increasing number of retirees in the pool simply because the population grows, and ages. Every time you open a new school you add more students and thus hire more teachers…those teachers retire; capeshe?
You obviously don’t understand population growth. The US population is not growing exponentially. In fact the rate of growth is almost 0. So yes, as teachers retire, there will be an equally sized work force to pay for their retirements. The “baby boom” generation is the exception, but our population growth has now stabilized. The only factor that will affect all of this is life expectancy, but as life expectancy increases, so will the age of retirement.
The US doesn’t pay these costs; Harford County does. You need to use Harford County statistics when analyzing Harford County costs. Sheesh…
And Harford County is not growing exponentially either. It’s growth is almost 0 as well.
http://marylandassociationofcounties.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/brfa-pension-shift-fy13-17-dls-estimates.pdf
Local pension costs rise approx. 50% every five years, and that doesn’t include what we all know is an underfunding of that system. That means they’re short funds for the existing pool of retirees right out of the gate. To suggest that this pension shift has no fiscal impact is nothing short of dumb.
Sorry I can’t link the download, but Harford County detailed census stats are here. Between 2000-2010 there was a 12% increase in population. During that same decade household income fell 14%. You can do the math – should help to illustrate the problem here. There’s no way to sustain the existing benefits without a tax increase.
http://www.harfordcountymd.gov/Downloads.cfm?FormID=142
Hey Money,
“The fact is the county cannot absorb teacher pensions and provide for step increases, cost of living raises, milestone bonuses and massive sick day accumulation payouts – all prescribed in the existing contract at the current tax rates.” – That is not a fact. The county could indeed do all of this. The only question would be, at what cost? Where would the money come from? I am sure there is surplus and wasted funds in the coffers that could be used to pay, or partially pay for this.
“The only way to get what you want is to raise taxes;” – Or cut spending in other places. Do you truly believe the government is running at 100% efficiency?
“either that or revisit the contract and reduce some very generous existing benefits in exchange for step increases.” – I agree that the contract should be re-visited. I think each side needs to make sacrifices. However, for the last 4 years, only 1 side has made them. Also, the existing benefits really aren’t that generous.
“You can’t have it all in this economy.” – No, you can’t. However, when times were good, the teachers didn’t live high on the hog like the rest of us; and it is doubtful that when times again become good, teachers will be living it up. So, lets just honor what was contracted; or, are you in favor of not honoring contracts?
Anyways, have a nice day.
I’d work with the step increase if only teachers would give up this sick day accumulation windfall. It’s appalling as a taxpayer to think the cap on sick days is 200. Work 20 years and nearly everyone walks out with a check for 70K. That’s absurd.
Hey Money,
“I’d work with the step increase if only teachers would give up this sick day accumulation windfall. It’s appalling as a taxpayer to think the cap on sick days is 200. Work 20 years and nearly everyone walks out with a check for 70K. That’s absurd.” – I would agree with that as well. In my opinion, unused sick time, when a teacher (or anyone else) retires, should not be paid out.
It’s something they earned they should be paid for it.
Earn it? Really…you think a 200 day cap is fair to the taxpayers? There’s certainly some justification to provide an incentive to show up to work, but to allow it to surpass the potential for well over a year’s pay is abuse of the taxpayer.
You obviously do not have the same opinion as those who negotiated that into teacher contracts…and not just in Harford County, but pretty much everywhere. The cost of paying teachers for their 200 days of unused sick leave is less than paying the cost of teacher substitutes when teachers do not come to work and the loss of instructional time to students when teachers are not present.
If you do away with paying out sick leave then expect a lot of teachers to use a lot more sick days especially as they get closer to retirement (and not necessarily abusing sick leave, but when they have a cold and normally would go in anyway they call out sick, or they schedule doctor appointments during the school day even if they could’ve scheduled them after school gets out, etc.) You’ll end up paying those sick days anyway along with paying for a sub and the kids end up with more unproductive days doing busy work or watching a movie.
A day and a quarter or half per month with a nearly unlimited accumulation is complete BS. There are reasonable incentives and then there’s abuse of the taxpayer and this is clearly abuse. Could care less who negotiated the contract, whoever it was could have clearly given two hoots about the taxpayers. NOBODY in the private sector get’s this. I’ll count slowly back from 10 and expect HCPS to explain to me how every private sector job he/she has ever had had the same benefit. I’ll then check my leg because it feels wet..and it’s not raining.
Money Tree, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, however your number of 70K is mistaken. I know someone who just retired who had the 200+ sick days after teaching 36 years….it was no where near a 70K check. The amount allowed to be cashed in was capped off somewhere in the teens and the rest of the sick leave was added on to his length of service, working out to about an additional year. Please do not think that retired teachers are making off with checks worth 70K….And please, if you personally do know of someone who has walked away with a 70K check after retiring, let me know because the person I know definitely got screwed!
Added to length of service I assume means continuing to get a check in the mail although you no longer work there. If the work year is 187 days and you can accumulate 200 sick days…that’s a year’s pay no matter how you want to redefine it.
“Added to length of service” refers to how your pension disbursements are calculated. State employees pensions are based on their last 3 years of salary averaged together and are then paid based on a percentage of that. So if you have accumulated sick leave, that can be added to your years of service to add another year of your current salary to your averaged salary to compensate for a year in which you had a lower salary.
What I mean by added to his length of service was that he taught for 36 years, however his surplus (that was not allowed to be cashed in) was added to that time, bringing it to 37 years. His retirement payment was then calculated off of 37 years of service. So, no, he did not continue to “get a check in the mail from HCPS” this year. Also, the sick days are paid out as a percentage of the salary, not as a full amount (for example, if you broke down that the teacher made “x” amount of dollars per day, the retirement cash out is based on a percentage of that “x” amount of dollars, not the full amount)….I am certainly not trying to redefine anything, just want to make it clear that no one is cashing in on 70K payouts.
So in otherwords…that’s your obfuscated version of yes, there’s a bit of a payout in the form of a one time payment, woven into a year where the paycheck continues to come in even though you’re not working. Good lord; why do you feel the need to BS everything?
Easy, easy Money Tree, no need to get grumpy. Never denied that there was a one-time payment, just trying to make a point (though it is clearly not going anywhere) that a 15K one time payment is a far cry from a 70K one time payment 🙂 Have a wonderful day!
@moneytree: here is the clause straight from the Negotiated Agreement:
“11.2 Payment for Unused Days of Sick Leave. Teachers who enter retirement from the public schools of Harford County after (10) years of service in those schools shall receive payment for unused days of sick leave up to a maximum of 200 days effective July 1, 1998, at the rate of 25% of the daily rate of pay. All such days must
have been accumulated while in service in Harford County. Sick leave shall be accumulated annually at the rate of the difference between sick leave provided and sick leave used.”
So if a teacher is on the 15th step of the Masters+30 payscale ($71,688) and has received $2000 longevity increases after year 19, 24, and 29, they would be making $77,688. If they cash in an entire years worth of accumulated sick days (190) at 25% of their cash value, the total amount received would be $19,422.
MT-
Funny, I cashed in 200 sick days at the end of 30 years and got $16,000 which I rolled into my retirement account so that I can survive on a $20,000 a year pension. Boy am I living it up!!!
Facts are peculiar things…
Only in the public sector could you still retire at the end of 30 years. Find your next job and become a productive member of society again. We need the tax revenue to fund your pension.
Sure you would, and monkeys are going to fly out of my butt.
^^^ that was for money tree – “I’d work with the step increase if only teachers would give up this sick day accumulation windfall.”
Actually, when HCPS ends the fiscal year with a surplus…you will find that you actually can.
This was in response to the comment that teachers can’t possibly have raises and keep their benefits during these economic times.
If HCPS has a surplus it should be returned to taxpayers.
Does that mean that if HCPS has a deficit, the tax payer needs to write an extra check to cover the costs? If that is the case, who needs fiscal responsibility?
Yardsel –
Who do you think pays when HCPS has a deficit?
Money Tree = David Craig?
I know exactly who pays. Your logic says that at the end of the fiscal year, a surplus should be sent back to the tax payer immediately. So, if there is a deficit…wouldn’t your logic require an extra check to be sent to HCPS? Not future taxes…a check. If refunds are immediate, so should payments to fill a deficit.
Yardsel – writes “Your logic says that at the end of the fiscal year, a surplus should be sent back to the tax payer immediately.”
My actual words nor my logic said anything like your distorted editorial.
If HCPS ends with a surplus, and it will, you want it sent back to the taxpayer. Correct? That would either require a future lowering of the tax rate to return this surplus, which is unsustainable, or a nice refund check sent to your address. Fine. I am just asking if you would be applying the same logic if HCPS was at a deficit for the year? Tax increase? One time “extra” payment? People using your logic are always looking for a refund when there is a surplus but refuse to pay one extra cent when there isn’t one.
HCPS will end the year at a surplus. That is a good thing. You do not deserve a refund. The teachers who had a contractual agreement with the county deserve to have that funded. A contract is a contract. The money is there for contractual obligations that should be met, not so you can have yet another refund or tax reduction.
Teachers do not have a contract with the county. Never have. They make their contracts with HCPS and the Board of Ed. The County Exec and County Council have no say whatsoever over teacher salaries or benefits. They could send HCPS a check today for $10 million with the understanding that it go to compensate teachers, and the school system can turn around and buy books with it. (It’s happened before.)
The surplus that I think Patrick is referring to is county government’s, rather than HCPS’s surplus. What boggles my mind is that teachers are more concerned with someone else’s surplus (county government’s) than with the surplus of their employer (HCPS). If I were a teacher, I would be raising hell about how HCPS will spend it’s reserve funds.
Patrick = Dbag
If there is surplus in Harford County it should benefit taxpayers.
And if there is a deficit, screw the county….you don’t deserve to pay one cent extra for the services you receive. I get it.
Hey Patrick,
“If there is surplus in Harford County it should benefit taxpayers” – If, after all contractual obligations are fulfilled, there is a surplus, it should benefit the county. I agree.
Anyways, have a nice day.
Paul, thank you for beating me to the punch.
Paul, why would county government be under any obligation to honor contracts that they did not negotiate, sign, or have been any party to?
Oh I don’t know…maybe because that is the law…
Agreed…after meeting contractual obligations, then a ONE TIME refund may be in order.
Patrick- good teachers and good and fully funded schools benefit the taxpayers. Are you really that myopic??
@Disgraceful
We have good teachers and we handsomely fund HCSP.
@Disgraceful
We have good teachers and we handsomely fund HCPS.
Harford COunty has the sixth ranked per capita income and the 17th ranked funding for education. It funds schools at $1,000 less per student than Baltimore County, which has a lower per capita income. That difference in funding amounts to $38,000,000/ year. I would not call that handsomely funded…
No…He is greedy. If property taxes were raised he would pay significantly more since he owns so much property. He is prevenging.
Its not the county’s money. ITS THE TAXPAYERS MONEY. The school does not directly generate revenue. Surplus should go back to those who gave it.
I just heard a funny story from a retired teacher. She said David Craig worked to rule as a teacher because of a lack of funding for salaries. If this is true, and my source has no reason to lie, does anyone see the irony in this? I hope someone from his office is reading this because you should ask your boss why he know feels that funding for education is not a priority. He screwed the teachers who backed him an put him in office with our votes. WOW
Before anyone focuses on the incorrect spelling I meant now not know
All King David did when he was an HCPS administrator was sit on his fat a$$ and collect a six figure salary while he was dreaming of his real aspirations as a politician. He’s a hypocrite who can’t ever be trusted.
Hey Yates,
“Paul, why would county government be under any obligation to honor contracts that they did not negotiate, sign, or have been any party to?” – I thought this portion of the thread was referring to the HCPS surplus for the benefits which were returned to the teachers in the form of the June healthcare benefits holiday. Now, if Patrick was actually referring to Harford County funds which were not associated with the schools, well, I was mistaken. Though, I doubt he was, as it wouldn’t make sense for anyone to discuss that in a post about the school system.
Furthermore, it is arguable as to whether the county is a party to the contract as they are the controlling authority on the finances for the schools; though, that is an in depth legal discussion involving contracts and government that I doubt many would 1) be qualified to discuss (including myself); 2) would want to discuss; or 3) would be able to understand (not trying to insinuate anyone is unintelligent, simply stating the legalize of this discussion would be above most legal laypeople.
Anyways, have a nice day.
I now declare that I am converted in my thinking. Money Tree and Patrick are right afterall. In fact, I’ll one-up them altogether.
I propose we reduce the county budget by about half and do away with public education completely. All of us who are unemployed as a result of this can become teachers in the many new private schools that crop up or as independent contractors.
First the parameters of my estimates…
Using info from city-data.com reveals that in 2009 Harford County’s revenue was about $350 million. Using the current allotment of about half the budget on education would mean that we’d only need half that ($175 million) to operate the county.
Same source for info also showed there were 217,000 households in Harford County about the same time. If each household equally contributed to the tally it would mean $1700 per household. Now I know that contributions vary greatly – my own input is vastly more than that. But, for the sake of argument I’ll use the averages.
A quick check of existing private school tuition reveals:
-Harford Christian about $6000 for the first child and about $1000 less for each additional child.
-John Carroll – $13,700.
-Harford Friends School – @$12,000
-Private instructional time – a little research reveals that $75 an hour for a licensed teacher is considered average.
Thus, you can see by cutting $850 (half) of the tax bill on education it will cost much less (?!?) to privately educate the kids! Afterall, in the world Patrick and Money Tree want us to live, $850 is way less money than these private schools!!!
It doesn’t stop there… By relegating education exclusively to the private sector it will save people like Money Tree and Patrick from having to complain about the excessive costs of teachers! We’ll all be private sector. Of course with all these additional students competing those tuition rates will soar until competing schools can open, but we can ignore that little facet – eventually costs and expenses will come down – they always do!
I for one would contract my services at an hourly rate to the highest bidder. In one sense I feel it would earn me far more than I’m making now. This could be a huge windfall.
So, CONGRATULAIONS Money Tree, Patrick, and others of similar thinking… think of the massive sums of cash you’ll stock pile as you raise the cost of educating your kids way above what it costs you now! Of course, at least you’ll be paying less taxes.
And as for roads and police services… we can do away with them also. Want your house protected – hire someone to do it! It’s like that in the third world and works wonderfully. Pay tolls on all the private roads you’ll have to use… the savings will be HUGE!
I’m done here. (Yeah, I’m kidding, but it sometimes takes an egregious example to demostrate the absolute bankruptcy of reason and logic of some people.)
Quit whining. The pay is great. The days off are unbelievable. And summers off? Oh, wait. I forgot. You all live in a welfare state where the Federal Government employees get paid EVEN more to do LESS than you do as a teacher. How ironic. You have O’Malley to thank. He’s taxing you right out of your welfare benefits, (aka your paycheck) Try getting a job in the real world, where you can be fired for being tired, or stupid, or lazy. You know and I know that as a teacher or civil service employee that simply doesn’t happen. Take the check and be quiet. If we keep electing socialists in the District, we’ll get what we ask for. Look out Greece. Here we come.
The real world eh..LOL. Where bonuses are cash and trips to tropical islands and not a clipboard or an HCPS Stamp! The real world where overtime gets paid time and a half. The real world where you have hour long “business lunches” paid for by…who knows (and I know first hand that happens quite a bit as my friends remind me of it all the time). Boy, you really have it tough in the real world.
No, I think Mike was talking about the real world where there is no such thing as overtime since we are paid a salary, which means “40 hours per week plus as many hours as it takes to get the job done for no additional pay”. The real world where if you are lucky there are salary and hiring freezes, and if not there’s layoffs or salary reductions. Oh, the business lunches – my boss buys us pizza for lunch maybe once a month out of his own pocket. Yeah, we’re living large.
and I’d love to know what is your salary for those 40 hours a week?
Phil will not share. He has ignored that question on several other occasions!
I could tell you my salary but would it really matter? You do not know what I do for a living nor my level of education. I can tell you that each month I have the following deducted from my paycheck: $525 for insurance, $150 for parking, and whatever I choose to have taken out for retirement (with a match by the company up to 4%). And yes, that is the entire retirement plan – no pension.
Oh yeah, I’m really spoiled compared to those folks funded by the taxpayers.
I could tell you my salary but would it really matter? You do not know what I do for a living nor my level of education. I can tell you that each month I have the following deducted from my paycheck: $525 for insurance, $150 for parking, and whatever I choose to have taken out for retirement (with a match by the company up to 4%). And yes, that is the entire retirement plan – no pension.
Oh yeah, I’m really spoiled compared to those folks funded by the taxpayers.
Then why not chose to tell us that, level of education and brief job discription. We would all be interested to know!
I won’t, because I’m not complaining about my situation and it’s none of your damn business what degrees I’ve earned, what I do or how much I make.
So I stand by my original statement!
(Cheesey Musical music playing)
“Ooooo I love to do a little side step…..”
You are just like the Governor in Best Little Whorhouse in Texas!
Oh..and I forgot.
Mike = DBag
If you think somehow that you are speaking for most fiscal conservatives, you should come back from fantasy land. I and all of my conservative friends value the role that good teachers play in educating our children and in my experience most teachers are effective. In fact several of my teachers were outstanding. Those that are not effective should be strongly encouraged to pursue a different career at the earliest oppotunity. However, I also expect government to be effective which is not the case at any level. There is a huge waste of taxpayer dollars, and it does not appear to be in teacher salaries. Were is it all going? Maybe you and a few others should redirect your collective energies and ask. Angry, bitter and hostile is really no way to go through life. Be part of the solution not the problem.
opportunity
I only wish there were enormous waste still in the system. There is some surplus money but in an over $200,000,000 budget even a number like $10,000,000 only represents 5%. Should your schools really need to be run that lean. However, that 10 million means a lot to employees. It could and should be used for their salary steps. I don’t know what the specific surplus for HCPS will be this year but I know it has been getting smaller and smaller each year as the system attempts to add programing to prepare kids. We get just about as much input on this at HCPS as we do at the County level. It really is about priorities. Do you want first class schools with satisfied, first class employees or do you want a rag-tag operation that scrimps and plugs the leaks with chewing gum.
Personally I think the “fat” in the HCPS budget rises to the top. There are administrative and quasi-administrative positions that should be sacrificed before teachers and teacher compensation. Unnecessary new programs/materials and inservice training are luxuries as well but they are the “reason for being” for the admin positions. Unfortunately, the admin decides where the $$ are spent and they butter their own bread first. They know that the parents will not lobby for more money on their behalf, so they cut or threaten to cut where it hurts kids- competitive pay to insure quality teachers, class sizes, special area classes, sports- yadayada. The community will become upset about those things and lobby for more overall money. Thus the fat at the top stays afloat.
UNfortunately, teachers have NO power over this situation. Punishing teachers for the sins of the administration is the norm in HCPS. Believe me, many teachers have begged BOE members over the years to adjust the budget at the top. I know- been there done that a looonnngggg time. Doesn’t happen. One BOE member once told me that whenever this was discussed with the Supt and CO staff, the BOE was told that cutting in those areas would “cut the heart out of HCPS” and they bought it.
Now. One of the obvious problems here is that the BOE doesn’t provide the necessary budgetary checks and balances. I posit that this is a flaw that exists because the BOE members are part timers who do not have the time to do the necessary investigation. Hence they accept what is advised by the Central Office admin.
How to address this systemic flaw is THE bottom line issue that needs to be addressed. I hope I live long enough to see it happen but I doubt it.
In the meantime, I hope the public will not continue to support making the teachers the scapegoats of a flawed system. Such response will only result in the loss of and inability to recruit excellent teachers- the real “heart of HCPS”.
Ryan – How can we take you seriously when you suggest that there is little to no waste in government? Most of my conservative friends feel we need to find a balanced approach to this issue which includes cutting waste and other wants in order to fund our needs. We don’t rule out revenues, but we do demand a long term resolution which we both know won’t make any stakeholder group 100% happy. Teachers and other government employees are often taken for granted and by comments on this board are treated as the “servant class” by at least a few people with multiple email accounts. I hope we can reach a compromise that provides at least some financial relief while addressing mismanagement and waste. I value and will continue to support the essential role teachers, police officers, firefighters and other public employeees play in our communities.
I will not disagree with you that there is waste in government. You should realize that those of us at the bottom of the food chain can easily identify something that should not have been bought or spent upon so that other things could be made better. As an example, I would offer the live fire demonstration recently held at Aberdeen Test Center. There were three days of practice leading up to that event, not to mention the cost of the materiel involved in the exercise itself. And this follows by two weeks the glorious day when my boss said we couldn’t spend $205 of overhead money to repair a string pull transducer that was broken inadvertently prior to testing.
There are stupid things that masquerade as policy, approved by people in management, that are not subject to the “Is this a stupid idea?” test. This sort of thing happens all the time in a top down management organization like the government. Because the government, like it or not, is modeled after the military. The military exists to get a job done at any cost. It is not a business, it is not required to respond to shareholders. The government should be run more like a business but most importantly, it should regard the input from the people that work on the floor or at street level for suggestions on how to save or improve operations. A great many companies were turned around by recognizing the value of input from their lowest level employees.
You should understand that within the schools system, there is a certain amount of mandated “waste”, a certain amount of necessary waste, a certain amount of institutional “waste” and very little waste which can actually be eliminated. People on the outside criticize administrative positions and programs but they do not have a full understanding of the law and necessities of keeping a school system running. I contend that there is an undetermined amount of waste in HCPS but it is not as simple as the popular things to complain about. To increase efficiency may require more investment. It also might require sacrifice, like kids walking to school when they live close rather than riding the bus.
The bottom line is that the starvation funding which King David has provided for HCPS is causing waste and preventing innovation. It is a tremendous waste of resources and time to train teachers for 5 years and then watch them flee to another system where they will be appreciated. The citizens of Harford County should be alarmed and saddened by the stark reality which lies ahead if something does not change soon.
So the only way to eliminate waste is to give more to the county….. The only way to show appreciation to teachers is to pay them more. At least you are consistent Ryan.
What about all the trade unions that have negotiated down their hourly wages recently because of the bad economy? Shouldn’t they be appreciated too?
No, Harford County has plenty of revenue.
You also don’t need to pay teachers more. Just pay them their contractual wage!
No response to why the trade union get less, yet you deserve more?
As to the trade unions, I find it hard to comment since I do not know their hourly wage, what they negotiated it down from or what they negotiated it down to. I think though you should realize that they are paid hourly. If they work extra, it equals more money. Teachers and many other public servants do not realize this benefit …ever. Likewise, we don’t want more. We want what was negotiated.
Amen!
Any teacher could do a “real-world” job. Not the other way around though. At least teachers get to deal with real people, not fake-ass sales reps.
I call “BULLSH*T”!
It really is a shame that Mr. Craig is doing this to the teachers, you’d think being an educator himself at one point he woud be more sympathetic towards teachers. Looks like he’s turning into the Scott Walker of Harford County.
I find it Ironic he bemoans the pension system when he recieves a pension himself!!!!
Fallston High School held a meeting today and will now be participating in, “Work to Rule.” One way or another, something somewhere has to give…right?
The running joke among some is if teachers work to rule a few teachers would actually have to show up early and work 5 more minutes.
Work to rule has to go on starting next fall if nothing changes. No clubs, class advisors, after school tutoring, field trips, nothing extra that doesn’t pay. It is a real shame, as this is not the way most teachers want to handle this, but something has to change. Craig and the school board need to wake up as they are forcing this action.
I- and many others in my school are preparing to work to rule next year. It will mean great sacrifices for teachers and definetely hurt thew kids. Is that what people in this county want????? If not- better put the pressure on the powers that be before it really is too late- especially for those seniors whose last year of high school will be drastically affected.
Support your teachers and stand up for them – write letters- call- attend meetings-if you want to continue to have the best schools and most opportunities for your kids!
I just talked to my friend and her husband is a harford county sheriff officer. She said that he is getting a 6% raise. This cannot be true we get nothing and the police get 6%. If this is true then thanks David Craig for forgetting where you came from. I cant believe it??????
Frustrated Teacher only 60 select deputies are getting a 6% raise. trust me it was a shock and the majority of people inside the department are not happy. but a few people got raises for themselves or there wives so they smoothed things over with David Craig. I did not get a raise i dont have the time on that was required. The whole thing is a political joke and I agree teachers police and all county employees should have got a raise not just a selct few. oh well welcome to politics!
@Truth be Told,
Why would only 60 select Deputies get a raise and everyone else not get anything? What are you talking about?
My doctor now charges me $25 for filling out forms, so I’m thinking …. teachers should be paid $25 for each college recommendations and scholarship form…Ask any high school teacher about the stacks of recommendations and letters and forms that they have to wade through. There’s a freebie that cuts into my planning time every spring. Will it hurt the kids if teachers stop writing recommendations? Will it hurt their college applications if the clubs they join after school to fill in the extra curricular blanks on the application are shut down because they don’t have an advisor? Sure. Will the parents of those college hopefuls be upset? Sure. But I would bet at least half of those parents are on here bashing teachers instead of supporting them….
Welsh dont play dumb you comment on alot of post to do with the Sheriff’s Office. The County Executive amended his budget created a new rank called Master Deputy First Class. Requirement is that you have to be on the job for 10 years and have not promoted. What else do you need to know the remaining 280 plus deputies get the shaft and get nothing. For the new master deputies they get 6%
@Truth be Told,
You are correct, I do comment on articles that deal with the HCSO. I did not know that a few select Deputies in the HCSO were getting a raise and all of others nothing. So you are saying that Deputies in the grade of DFC who have been on the job for ten years get a 6% raise. Why would the Sheriff do such a thing? Why would the Deputies union support such a thing? What is the rational for doing this, it doesn’t make any sense?
I dont know the answer why on the Sheriff or Deputy Union would support this??????? Yes you hit ten years you get 6% if you are a DFC. I cant answer your questions but your local elected officals may be able to. not sure???
Thanks Truth Be Told. At least I know the info is correct and we know that you support us it just a bad time to be a teacher.
Attn: Frustrated Teacher
I am also a frustrated teacher who is married to a HCSO deputy who has been working for 5 years and is on step 1…. they have it worse than us…. so in our house, nothing for him, again, and nothing for us, the teachers. It is tough all the way around. I am furious! It is true, only those that have over 10 years are getting paid. He has had 3 different graduating classes come out and are still making the same as him. It is terrible! Imagine going 5 years with no raise! At this rate, sadly, teachers may go 5 without anything.
in regaurds to the HCSO…supposably the sheriff had no idea this was going to pass. thats what he is saying anyway? the majority of deputies seem to be upset with the decision, however union (board) say its a union decision! there doesnt seem to have been a vote…but somehow union got blessing from craig to get the 10+ yr veteran dfc’s a new rank for the salary increase? its a nice thought in a year where all deputies would attain something…but seems to be singling out dfc’s who got the 16% 6 years ago and now 6% on top of that…where dfc’s with less seem to get nothing, but lose another 1% this fiscal year! funny, they show you piece of paper when hired with these step increases during your carreer, then you go several years and dont see a thing increase…except price of living, can always count on that! but deputies do sympathize with teachers, especially now that they are going through similar experience! not much you can do when union is pulled in diff directions politically! teachers can have more “voice” in matter….deputies seem to have to take a military view and just “deal” with it even if majority may not agree with leadership!
@Amusing,
I find it amusing that anyone would believe Sheriff Bane when he says that he had no idea that some of his deputies were going to get a pay raise by having a special pay category established for a selected few of his personnel. If the Sheriff is truthful then he is saying that he is not in charge of his own agency. Someone else is really in charge.
Will many of these selected few be making more money than their Supervisors? Seems entirely possible to me. Why would you reward persons who have failed to demonstrate that they have the qualities for advancement beyond their present grade by giving them more money than those who serve in grade above them? Seems like a Deputy First Class with close to ten years would have to evaluate if accepting a promotion to Corporal would give them more money than passing the ten year qualification for a special pay category and getting more money without the responsibilities of the advanced grade.
Sounds to me like a select few Deputies who have not received an increase in pay the past few years, and who are wanting to retire in the near future are being rewarded with this special pay category to enhance their retirement benefit.
I don’t begrudge anyone getting a pay raise, but this kind of thing doesn’t pass the smell test… smells like pure politics to me. And when Sheriff Bane says that he was unaware that this was being considered leaves me wondering if he is really in change of his own organization.
Heard on NPR this morning that Howard County’s executive increased their education budget by 7.5%. I wish we had an executive that still valued education (I know he must have when he was a teacher or maybe he was one of the teachers that so many of you backwards conservatives bash all of the time). So glad someone finally made the comparison of Mr. Craig to Scott Walker. Mr. Craig and the county council also hate unions, teachers and public servants. Just remember, Mr. Craig, teachers are VOTERS and taxpayers as well. I know its hard for some of you to believe. I think some of you actually believe that the private sector employees are the only people who pay taxes.
What if teachers stopped….
Coaching all sports
PTSA
Field Trips- beyond curricular requirements
Students Letters of Recommendation
Graduation
Prom, After Prom, and Homecoming
Halloween Party for elementary students
Sports coverage (stats, announcing, etc…)
Plays, musicals, etc…
Community service organizations
Pizza parties
Basket Bingo fundraisers
Offseason practices, workouts, or games (provided by coaches)
Earth Day events
8th grade orientation night
All extracurricular clubs
After school or before school tutoring, tests, etc…
Fundraisers
Voting- Prom court, Homecoming court
Surveys
All doors locked- no students allowed in classrooms after contracted time
Envirothon (beyond requirements)
Character Education (No discussions etc…)
No student computer use except as required during class time
No class advisors
No spirit weeks or pep-rallies
No signing for parking permits
No Peer Leadership Weekend
No Al Cesky Award voting or banquet attendance
No Senior Awards night participation
No food collections
No advisory completions
No ring sales
Senior picnic and/or field trip
Misentity
Art Shows
Talent Shows
Sadie Hawkins
Science Fairs
DI
Student of the Month
Eligibility committee
NHS committee
Service learning coordination
In-service presentation
Unified Sports
Informational Parent Nights
BRAVO!!! WORK TO RULE!!!
Another list of activities teachers can stop providing:
athletic director
coaching football
coaching basketball
coaching wrestling
coaching track and field
coaching soccer
coaching baseball
coaching feild hockey
coaching lacrosse
coaching softball
coaching swimming
coaching tennis
coaching cross country
coaching volleyball
coaching golf
coaching cheerleading
intramurals
band
orchestra
vocal group
yearbook
forensics
high school newspaper
drama
literary publications
majorette
prom
student council advisor
FBLA
It’s academic
senior class sponsor
DI
MD engineering challenge
math counts
national honors society
foreign language honors society
SADD
FFA
VICA
HOSA
posting a list that consists mostly of paid positions does not help our cause.
How so? Just because they are compensated (although at significantly less than minimum wage) does not mean teachers have to do them. A teacher’s primary role should be educating their students and until teachers receive the compensation they deserve for that role, teachers should no longer provide any other services. If the community values these extra services, they can step up and provide them.
True, these positions are paid with a small stipend… BUT it is not mandatory that teachers accept these positions. They can remain vacant. No coach/sponsor, no sport/club.
I truly wish the coaches would stand together- one day of no one coaching the sports teams- one day of canceled practices- even if they are paid positions to walk away from- and then the public would be up in arms!!!! Unfortunately many feel that this is what it would take for people to WAKE UP- since sports are more important to most than the academic support that will be discontinued. And it’s not exactly easy to fill those coaching positions from anywhere else- certainly not with the same expertise as there is currently- especially considering the hours a coach has to be there to practice which for many, would coincide with a work day. Many of those sports have a hard time filling the coaching positions right now as it is- what would it be like if all of the coaches stood together and said they would resign from these positions? Some of those sports would be dropped completely.
The worst of it is that not one teacher WANTS this to happen but it is the FINAL STRAW! Teachers are being forced to make such choices because no one- NO ONE -will stand up for them unless they do, and the public is actually enraged enough to speak up. It takes the teachers choosing to stand up for themselves and take the meaningful extras away from the kids for there to be any action. PITIFUL! SHAME ON DR.TOMBECK! THE BOARD! HCPS! CRAIG and the COUNCIL! If you don’t care about your employees at all- don’t you at least care about what is going to happen to the kids in your schools??
A plea to all- it doesn’t have to be this way- put the pressure on YOUR OFFICIALS to do the right thing so that nobody has to suffer through this travesty of what HCPS has become any longer.
The pay is a complete joke for coaching. Fall sports are now really summer/fall sports as most football teams lift all summer and play in a tournament, boys and girls soccer are running during the summer and playing in a league at cedar lane, many field hockey teams play and condition all summer long, and if you don’t do this, you have parents breathing down your neck asking “why aren’t you doing all of this summer stuff”. Basketball and some of the other high profile sports are no different with their out of season activities. Yes it is paid, but it comes to dollars an hour. The coaches I know in Harford County do it because they love their sports and working with the kids outside of the classroom. It’s a shame that coaches aren’t paid more than what they are.
Don’t do it until the true value is recognized.
if the coaches coach because they love the sport and love working with the kids, then the pay for coaching shouldn’t matter that much. I coach little league from march through october/early november, for $0. I do it because I enjoy it. maybe I should piss and moan to parks & rec to pay the coaches
Almost all coaches in the travel leagues through the HS age groups for all sports are unpaid volunteers (and usually they pay for some things out of pocket). In addition, the HS coaches can be non-teachers. The problem is that if a teacher decides to take the coaching position, then the non-teahcer is kicked to the curb regardless of coaching qualifications. It has happened several times in HarCo and the team has sufferred.
It’s not the coaching pay anyone is complaining about. It is not having our contracts fulfilled for four years and the failure of the board to even go to the table and negotitate in good faith to try to fulfill them.
HARORD COACH,
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE REC. COUNCIL AND COACHING FOR THE SCHOOLS IS THAT THE REC. IS VOLUNTEER AND YOU DO NOT HAVE A CONTRACT! MY HUSBAND COACHED TEAMS FOR ALL 3 OF MY CHILDREN AND OFFICIATED GAMES AND DID NOT GET PAID. THERE IS NO COMPARISON!
THANKS!
Then you obviously should not be a teacher. (we all have to give a little bit here and there) You don’t care about the kids, you only care about the compensation. You would be eaten alive in the corporate world.
Whatever- if they only cared about compensation they never would have done any of these things for free or for very little for years. I watched teachers cry this week at the thought of giving up their extras- they would gladly continue to do these things for little or no pay if the county would honor their contracts after FOUR YEARS ( this one included). What teacher wants to kill a program they have worked hard to build? Not one!! But enough is enough- no more extras- no more freebies until we are treated like valued, respected employees. No teacher WANTS this, but why should we continue to go above and beyond when no one appreciates it or supports us?
If it bothers you- write letters to your county council members or the board- the ones who have the power to make things right. Otherwise you will see just how much teachers do that you take for granted.
Yea…the corporate world is all about feelings and doing what’s best for everyone else….not about $$ at all. Great point you raise….*moron*
Are teachers obligated to attend the Sneak A Peek nights that allow elementary students to see the location of their classroom and meet their new teacher? It is always held after the duty day…..great way to get off the new school year by having parents and children look into an empty classroom. Sorry to have to be so cruel but its seems like drastic measures are the only answer.
The HCPS HCEA negotiated agreement requires teacher to attend back-to-school night activities, especially if they involve parent conferences.
Back to school night and 3 parent conference nights are the only things specifically mentioned in the agreement as best I can find.
I am a teacher and keep reading about how all these schools are participating in a “work to rule” fashion. I’m sorry, but I really don’t get this. How is showing up to work on time and leaving when the contract day is over making any kind of impact? All the bad teachers HCEA helps does this anyway. You still have to perform the duties stated in your contract. You are making all of us look stupid. After reading previous comments, it is pretty obvious that people think the teaching occupation is a joke. According to them we need to only worry about three things. (1) it is our responsibility to raise their kids for 7 +/- hours a day, (2) it is our fault if they don’t get A’s or B’s, and (3) “their” kids are never discipline problems.
I agree something has to be done, but this work-to-rule BS is pointless. You only make your job harder. Do your job but stop doing extra crap for free so you just might get a piece of chocolate in your mailbox. Put down your signs, drop this pathetic union and remember….. hippies smell.
WOW! I now understand why teachers get zero respect. Of course on this board, you could be a member of the County Execs team and not even a teacher at all.
Rockfish – after retreading my post after seeing your response, I realize I posted while being really upset over posts from both sides of the issue. Although my feelings toward “work-to-rule”remain the same, I would like to retract my comments regarding parents. Most parents I come in contact with are world class and are doing a fantastic job with their kids. I apologize to all regarding that. However, I still think the HCEA is not worth belonging to.
Figures I have a spelling error in my first line
Let’s just hope that the day doesn’t come that you need them….then where will you find support…and don’t think it can’t happen to you! It’s happening every day to excellent teachers across Harford County!
Then don’t take any of the benefits that HCEA negotiates for you. Negotiate a contract with HCPS just for yourself then see how well you make out.
All those with the courage to work to rule are the ones that may well help teachers get the respect any pay you deserve – so your profession will no longer be a joke. You should consider joining them or not take any of the benefits they my receive as a result of their actions.
AMEN Teacher! Thank you for recognizing why this is happening and that it’s not an easy choice. It does take courage and sacrifice, and it hurts teachers to take these actions. But you have to realize what the bigger picture is- and you clearly do. It’s just sad that it comes to this- for the teachers, for the KIDS, for the programs that will be eliminated, for the parents who DO support teachers and aren’t just paying lip- service or worse bashing them. I especially feel for the teachers in our system who are parents of HCPS students -who are standing up for the profession despite seeing programs cut for their own kids.
Work to rule hurts the students, not the administration.
All it does is infuriate the parents who would otherwise be sympathetic to your side.
Those parents being voters who can put the appropriate pressure on to remedy the situation where it belongs. It is obvious that they don’t care what the voter teachers think. I agree it hurts children. If it only goes on for a short period of time the pain is minimal. If people want the work to the rulle style they can simply chose to do nothing.
We must make them respect our priority for education or make a change at the ballot box.
Kharn- so far- having taken no actions- teachers have received only lip-service- ” I think teachers are truly important BUT…” OR even better- full out bashing. Having gotten nowhere with the board and council who not only don’t value their employees but don’t value education either- teachers are put in a position where we need to try another tactic and unfortunately it’s one that DOES hurt kids- and programs- and schools- and the teachers themselves. Again this is. Not an easy decision for any educator but a last resort because the status quo is just not tenable for anyone.
Regretfully- its work to rule.
We really have no choice.
Some parents will be upset. Hopefully, they will see the root of the problem and help to change the priorities in this county.
sounds like they need to get out. They are now typical gov’t employees, creating more problems instead of helping with solutions. They are spreading an entitlement attitude that has destroyed this country. People are watching, make no mistake, they’ll be gone soon. Slackers are the first to go during bad times.
Great time to picket….. awful job numbers and the economy on the brink again, and the school year almost over. Your union leadership is not doing you any favors.
Actually I think it is a good strategy. Give the public and elected officials a little taste of what work to rule will look like on a mass scale next school year. What is happening now is nothing compared to how things will be affected if work to rule is implemented and maintained throughout next school year.
In two weeks the job numbers will be revised and likely reflect a loss of less than originally calculated.
Standard operating procedure for economic indicators.
They come in slightly off of predicitons and everyone cries ‘end of the world!’
Two weeks later we’re all still here.
A prediction based on nebulous numbers that is off by two fold should not be as scary as it sounds.
I would not call 6.7% down from 7% last year that awful.
Guess you are too busy to pay attention to the news lately
Using the latest numbers from the Labor Dept. Harford County MD specifically had an unemployment rate of 6.7% in April 2012 7% in April 2011 and 7.8% in April 2010. The High Mark was 9% in Feb 2010. Since these rates are not seasonally adjusted one can only use the same month for comparison. The numbers have been trending downwards for the last 2 years! If you had May numbers I would be interested in seeing them.
Add to your numbers a climbing national rate, 8.2 with the cooked numbers, above 14% the way numbers used to be calculated. Why is Harford County lower then the national average? Federal money. When the fed stops spending like it is going to have to since it is effectively broke Harford will feel the pain. With so much uncertainty, why would anyone lock themselves into a higher obligation for teacher salary. On top of that, the county can’t count of state money either since the state has such a large debt burden.
So If your raises go into effect now, you will be glad to cut later when financial crisis strikes? Doubt it.
The national rate is not really climbing it rose slightly this month but is in a gradual downward trend. In Harford County we currently have an unemployment rate which is commensurate with normal national averages. Income tax revenue for the county went up 11 million this year. To lump us in with places which are struggling is silly.
We are not talking about the federal govts. citizens we are talking about Harford County Specificlly. I fail to see how an IT dept in Semi-Valley, CA being outsoourced and people losing jobs there is relevant to the teachers salaries in Harford County, MD. As Ryan pointed out the national trend is also decreasing. In April 2012 it was 8.1% in April 2011 it was 9% and in April 2010 it was 9.9%. the high water mark was 10% in Oct 2009. So Nationally the rate has been decreasing although the nation has a higher unemployment rate than Harford County.
Decreasing because of job creation? Or people running out of unemployment, and many others not looking for jobs. The national average is going to be very important to the local when the fed cuts spending like it has too. The number of jobs created for the last two months has dropped.
It is not raises for which we are asking. We want our contractual wage which is determined by years of experience. If that needs to be renegotiated then that is what should happen; not unilateral freezes.
Sean Hannity cited Wisconson’s low unemployment rate of 6.7% as a reason to keep Scott Walker. Why is 6.7% low for that but high for this?
WOW…..stillgoingtowork must…
A.Must work at a school where parents give BIG gifts (ie- gift cards) during Christmas and teacher appreciation week.
B. Have no kids at home to raise.
C. Have tons of parent volunteers doing part of their work.
D. Have gotten their job because they “knew” someone.
E. …not truly be a team player.
F. Not been a teacher in this county for very long.
I pray that you are never accused of harming a student or that you get an administrator that doesn’t like you just because….
HCEA is our only protection.
I don’t think she’s a teacher at all- I think she’s a parent- or on the County Council!
I have a great deal of respect for our Teachers, especially elementary school. However, my son entered 6th grade this year @ FMS and I’ve never been so disappointed in school system until this year. THey are grouped into 3 different teams, he is on Team Galaxy. My biggest complaint is with his math teacher, he truly shouldn’t not be teaching, well at least math. According to my son and couple of his friends and some of his past students,he just doesn’t teach math them math very well, almost if he doesn’t know it himself. He is just in a hurry to go back to texting, looking at things on the computer during instruction time, etc. If students don’t understand something he doesn’t take the time to really help them. Social Studies & Science teachers are great.
I feel/know that my son has regressed this year because of this teacher and it is very upsetting. And if you complain to the school or system then your child becomes a target. It is unfortunate situation for all involved.
I hope next year is better.
Here’s a thought- if things don’t change in this county, and all the talented and best new recruits out there continue to see HCPS teachers picketing on the streets over unfulfilled contracts- you can expect far more disappointment in the quality of teachers filling our classrooms!
My wife says the principal at FMS is an absolute stand up guy. Have you approached him about your concern or are you assuming your kid will become a target? Not be a smart alec seriously asking.
Your comment is highly suspect given that the math teacher on Galaxy is NOT a man. You have the wrong team which makes me wonder what other facts are wrong in your post.
Have you had any phone or face-to-face conferences with your child’s math teacher? Have you expressed your concern with the administration? As a teacher and a parent, I believe it is also your responsibility to speak up if you believe your child is not receiving quality instruction.
“According to my son and a couple of his friends”…I find most 6th graders comments about school to be quite reliable. Great source you have there. 12 year old boys. Let me guess…when you ask them what they did in school today they say “nothing”. Very credible….
You should really drop out of the union or replace its leadership. They have done nothing for you.
You are wrong but what exactly makes you think that you are in a position to even make a thoughtful judgement?
Be careful ‘work to rule’ teachers. What happens if you do as little as possible, and people don’t notice a difference. It could weaken your argument.
Believe me, people will notice. Very few people really know or have any idea of the amount of free work teachers put in every day.
To Math Teacher,
A science teacher at EDMS uses his cell phone to text and his computer to communicate during instructional time. Guess what? He made the assistant principal’s pool this school year. My son has pictures on his cell phone to support this statement. Where is the supervision by the six assistant principals and one principal? This is happening on a daily basis. Wake up EDMS “leadership”.
You mean the cell phone he was not supposed to have at school?
wow…possibly the dumbest post on this thread. Maybe his kids were home sick and he was texting his wife about his kids. The real question is why was your 6th grade kid on his cell phone during instruction time. Isn’t it a harford county rule that kids cell phones need to be put away during the day? And taking a picture of the teacher? Give me a break! Your post speaks volumes about the type of parents teachers have to deal with on a daily basis. Enable much? Wake up “Parents”.
This has become a forum for taking potshots at individual teachers with misinformation and partial facts. My Kia said this. My kid said that. Parents, if you knew half the things your kids share about you with us, you would be mortified. Kids are not above throwing any adult under the bus to take the pressure off themselves. if you have an issue with an individual teacher, take it up with that teacher or an administrator. This is not an appropriate forum, and your posts border on slander and libel.
The point of this controversy is that HCEA negotiated an agreement in good faith with HCPS. If you had a contract with an employer who chose not to honor it claiming the funds were not available, but then spent millions of dollars on nonessential projects, what would you do? Just keep giving a 1000% or say, “Hey, wait a minute?”. I think the fact that Harford County teachers have taken four years to reach “work to rule” bespeaks how dedicated we are to our kids and our jobs. Not honoring the contract with teachers is not going to weed out bad teachers. It is going to weed out the best ones because those are the ones who will get better-paying jobs in surrounding counties and states.
and , yes, it should be kid not Kia. Most of us post from mobile devices that are more difficult to edit on than pcs.
What really angers me the most about all of this is that I taught for many years with David Craig. He was a big proponent of “work-to-rule.” However, now that the tables are turned he could care less. He has forgotten what it is like being down in the trenches. SHAME ON YOU DAVID CRAIG!!!!
It is really sad to see someone acting so hypocritically and selfishly.
So let’s lay out just a few of the facts. Yes……the “raises” that everybody keeps talking about are actually CONTRACTUAL steps and should not be negotiable. First, although the board states that the have no funds to support steps for teachers, they are willing to spend upwards of $50,000 to sue those that work with them. Secondly, the superintendent required a significant raise we he relocated to Harford County, which could have been used for raises. Third, with the increase in healthcare premiums, teachers are essentially making less than they ever have before. Finally, for those who think that we have it easy b/c of our time off in the summer…….let me do some math for you. Let’s say that teachers work an extra 10 hours a week, which we all work much more than that outside of our contracted hours!!!! We will multiply that by 36 weeks (because 36 x 5 = 180)……that equals 360 hours outside of our contracted hours. Now let’s divide that by 9 weeks (which is approximately the number of weeks that we have off in the summer…..that leaves us with an average of 40 hours a week worked throughout the summer……instead those hours are crammed into a 180 day period. So the summer serves as our “time off” for all of the time spent above and beyond our CONTRACTED hours throughout the school year!!!
Quit the whining and “work to pay” or whatever that “threat” teachers have been making. Work your hours and go home. No longer want to read or hear these convoluted claims about hours. Apparently according to teachers, you work 16 hour days, are expected to go without sleep, eat beans for dinner because you can’t afford anything else, are routinely abused by everyone around you, then they light your hair on fire just for fun – all the while reducing your pay. If it sucks so bad; quit. Just quit and let someone else do the job.
Money Tree – did you apply yet? You seem to feel that our deal is so much better than your deal… applying would be a wise decision by you. C’mon, join us. If you do – good move for you. If you don’t – hypocrite! You can’t spout off on here about how good we have it and bad you have it, and not join. Do it!
PS
We want our steps and ultimately we will get them. However, if you think I’ll ever go back to providing tutoring for class and AP exams for free? Forget it. You wanted this, and now you have it. Get your check book out!
Thanks for the support of teachers and education, Money Tree- that’s awfully intelligent and full of great foresight on your part. Tell me-truly- did your parents not value education either? If not- how did you ever become so wise and so apparently successful?
And don’t worry- we won’t whine- we will just speak vocally about the extras and programs that make our schools so great which will now be gone so the public understands just how much they lose in not paying 35.00 more a year in taxes to fund education- we will speak about how much the schools will lose at the decision of the board to continue to pay for attorneys rather than advocate for their own employees. We won’t whine- and we won’t quit working either-just work to contract only. So sorry to say though that you haven’t heard the last of any of it- believe me.
More threats? Goodness…all I said was if it’s so horrible go ahead and quit. That’s what most people do when they aren’t happy with thier employment. You won’t find in the private sector us running around tapping other’s on the shoulder and suggesting a mass walkout unless our demands are met. To suggest this isn’t a good time for tax increases is tatamount to not supporting education is disingenuous. There has been a 14% reduction in household income from 2000-2010 the last time statistics were updated for Harford County. Has your income gone down 14%?
Hey Money Tree,
“There has been a 14% reduction in household income from 2000-2010 the last time statistics were updated for Harford County. Has your income gone down 14%?” – Based on the 2000 census, according census dot gov, the median household income in 2000 was $57,234. In 2010, according to census dot gov, the median household income was $77,010. Is this the alleged 14% decrease in income you are talking about? Or, are you talking about something else entirely?
Anyways, have a nice day.
Not a threat- an action- already underway….
Likewise disingenous to suggest that teachers are “tapping each other on shoulders and organizing walkouts.” We are leaving at the end of our contracted day- which for years- for most of us- has never been the case before.
On taxes- the increase that would amount to appoximately $35.00 a year per household would fully fund the contracted steps- and actually even help get the economy going a little better since we – the teachers- also would spend money on things if we had any extra to spend. However, even as strapped as I am, I think I could probably afford $35.00 extra a year to ensure that my children would continue to have the best programs, all the extras, and the best teachers coming to work here- I would consider it an investment in my kids and our collective future- I would rather make education a priority than many other options- I feel that it is one of the most important things for our future- but maybe that’s just me…..
Work to Rule wrote “On taxes- the increase that would amount to appoximately $35.00 a year per household would fully fund the contracted steps- and actually even help get the economy going a little better since we – the teachers- also would spend money on things if we had any extra to spend.”
Please do not tell us you are an economics teacher. Taking $35.00 from one group and handing it to another does not help the economy. If anything, it hurts the economy as the time factor of money is slowed by the government transfer.
Taxpayer, please stop commenting on this issue. You have ruined the discussion by introducing logic, facts and reason.
Sorry Money Tree??? I guess we shouldn’t exercise our Constitutional right to speak freely and fight for ourselves. We should just bend over and take it.
No more or less than the taxpayers should bend over and take it. We’ll see what happens in Wisconsin.
That is Wisconson….this is Harford County, Maryland. The issues in both places are entirely different. Wisconson Teachers have not had to pay into their pention before MD teachers have and have even been asked on several occasions in the last 10 years to pay more. Wisconson Teachers can strike. MD teachers can not. Wisconson teachers had not contract. Harford County, MD teachers do! MD has the best schools in the nation. Wisconson schools are not!
CDEV
Where is Wisconson?
NORTH
Money Tree,
You’re a jackass. If you don’t like it, read about some other topic on the Dagger. I promise you, you would not last a day in a public school. Everyone thinks they can and thinks it’s so easy, but let’s see what you do when a student tells you to “f*** off bitch” and the administrator won’t do anything about it. Let’s see what you do when a student swings a baseball bat at you and only gets after school detention. Let’s see what you do when you have to break up a fight between 10 students. Let’s see what you do when a parent just doesn’t care and blames you for all of their problems and their student’s problems too. You talk a big talk but it’s just that…talk. Shut up and go somewhere else with your prissy, judgemental, idiotic comments.
Whatever happened to expulsion? I realize this is a real problem especially in some areas. Stupidity of parents who blame everyone else will never go away, change or be of any kind of use to anyone. However, getting those kids out of the school (system) needs to be addressed and no teacher should be afraid in their classroom. I know responsibility, accountability and respect are all long gone concepts. Where is the fight to bring that back? If the Administrator won’t do anything – who changes the Administrator – this should be the protest, not tiny pay increases, etc…it needs to be getting control back in the classroom, holding kids back who need it, expulsion, learning something other than how to take a state test. This is also all over the country not just here – so protest and fight for a change to the real problems that can be fixed. You can’t fix bad parents but you shouldn’t have to put up with their violent and disruptive kids, they will only stop blaming other people when we stop letting them.
Harford Mom,
While I appreciate your long family history of teachers (I come from the same thing), your comment shows just how out of touch the general public is with what really goes on in schools. Most schools are filled with incompetent administrators who only got into administrtion because they couldn’t hack it in the classroom anymore. You have a better chance of being struck by lightening as you spot Bigfoot than you do of finding a quality administrator in HCPS. Most of them are only worried about preserving their own jobs and not about doing what is right for the student or the teacher. I once had a boy in my class punch (closed fist punch)a girl in the mouth. She slapped him back in self defense. Do you know what the vice principal did? Gave them both after school detention. When I asked him why he punished the girl for defending herself and why the boy wasn’t suspended, he said she was just as responsible as he was. This AP was well known for being a lazy ass who had no respect from anyone. Same AP who once, when I found a student in posession of a toy gun, didn’t do anything except call the parent and make them come to school to get the gun. HCPS policy on toy guns in school is automatic 10 day suspension and referral to the Board for possible further action. When I asked him about it, his exacct quote was “I’m not going to make headlines in the Aegis.” THIS is what goes on DAILY in HCPS…and most other school sytems around the country. These are the things people like Money Tree and Patrick don’t get…the environment that teachers work in and are forced to put up with. My first year teaching in Baltimore City, I had a student tell me to fuck off. I referred him to the AP. The kid came back 5 minutes later with a note from the AP for me that said “this is something you can handle yourself.” I was tempted to send him back with my own note that said “you’re damn right I can handle it myself…so when you find him with his head stuck in a locker the next time he talks to me like that, don’t question how I handled it.” The reality is, suspensions are very rare nowadays…expulsions are almost non-existant. Schools have to report their numbers for suspensions…and admins ROUTINELY either fudge the numbers or more commonly, just don’t suspend students anymore because they think it reflects poorly on them. This was common when that piece of crap Jackie Haas was in office and has continued with Baltimore Coutny Tombeck in office. HCPS is a toxic environment…it has become a witch hunt.
This story has been on your web for a while. Teachers will have to suck it up like the rest of us who are taking pay cuts, paying more for benefits, and working longer just to keep up. Please take this story down. Like any other profession – some of the best people I know are teachers and some of the worst people I know are teachers. No worse no better than the rest of us.
Why should they remove any trace of a story???? Seems like people are still talking about it 400 posts later!
You are a toolbox. STFU and post something that adds to the discussion…not cry and bi!ch like a little girl.
If the sheriff’s department is honoring the 6% increase for sheriffs at the DFC level and ten years of service, why is the HCPS salary scale being ignored? I realized that the wording “if funds are available” is inbedded into the teacher’s agreement. Where are these words in the sheriff’s department’s agreement?
Jesse Bane has no one to answer to. No system of checks and balances. Therefore he continues to do what he wants. The right thing to do would have been to hire more correctional officers instead of overworking the ones he has to the point of exhaustion. It would save overtime funds as well. Or if not, give ALL SO employees the second half of the bonus. The county budget and the Sheriff’s budget are two different entities and Bane could have chosen to do the right thing by helping everyone. Instead he chooses to give a select group a 6% raise and create a new rank. Why not create a new rank for everyone who has been in their position for 10 years or more? Including correctional officers and civilians. His timing couldn’t be worse during these tough economic times. He is buying the Deputies’ Union support in the next election.
BBC
I don’t believe the Sheriff has any say over the compensation of his Deputies. He may have input to the funding authority regarding his thoughts, but in the end the CE and County Council decide what the pay of Deputies will be. The Deputies have learned that you negotiate directly with the funding authority and they do this on a regular basis.
Is it your belief that the majority of the Deputies Union members supported this action? Why would the Union members support a pay increase for only a select few personnel? Surely the majority of the union members are more astute than you allege them to be.
the union members were not all on board with this decision. a large portion were against the whole idea during these times. there wasnt a vote for this, and it seems to have been taken directly to the CE to get a quick approval by the union board members…whom all seem to benefit from the new rank! with this new rank, dfc’s with 10+yrs will have had over 20$ increase in salary the past 6-7 yrs!! ha ha…you think theres no tension in the sheriffs office right now??
“20%” not $….sorry!
Amusing,
I would think there is lots of tension within the HCSO. You make it sound like the Deputies Union board colluded to approach the CE with their request for a special pay category, that if approved, would provide a 6% pay increase for themselves, and they did it under the appearance that the Deputies Union membership majority supported such a request.
Perhaps it is time to consider a change in the leadership of your union if what you say is accurate.
Apparently the Deputies do not bargain with the Sheriff for their compensation. They negotiate directly with the County Executive who is the funding authority along with the County Council. Teachers bargain with the BOE who is limited in their ability to honor any agreement, as the BOE is not the funding authority.
Jesse Bane and David Craig. Two birds of a feather that flock together. Different political parties but both are Liberal as Liberal can be. As for the Deputy Sheriff’s Union it sounds like they need to vote every single dingleberry off their board!
MAGNOLIA MIDDLE SCHOOL IS OFFICIALLY WORKING TO RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!! GO TEACHERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WOO-HOO
That is a good idea for MMS. I wouldn’t want to spend any extra time in that cespool either. my kids will be in private school before we get there. or maybe just move to PA.
If someone built a fence and changed the sign to Harford County Juvenile Detention Center, would anyone notice?
I am offended by both Kharn & JTowne Jeff’s comments. I work at MMS and we have a lot of amazing students. You probably don’t know about this because HCPS does nothing to support & showcase our work and just quietly perpetuates the stereotype of “The Rt. 40 School.” For example, you probably didn’t hear anything about the only HCPS student that qualified for this year’s state Math Counts competition — because she came from Magnolia Middle. I will admit we do have some tough kids, but if the county had some guts and cared enough to put some strong policies in place to support us, those kids wouldn’t be able to affect the rest of the building.
JTowne Jeff….a school is a direct reflection of the community in which it serves. You live in J-Towne, right? Maybe you should come be part of the solution instead of adding to the problem.
Maybe if Edgewood students weren’t bussed into Joppa, MMS (and MES) wouldn’t have such problems.
Wow. You really don’t get it. This is why we never move forward.
I can read a map, students from the Woodbridge and Harford Square complexes(and a few other streets) in Edgewood attend MMS. Joppatowne has a few problems, but nothing like that section of Edgewood.
From my experiences talking to my neighbors in Joppatowne, most do not have a problem with JHS (with the same attendence area) due to everyone having settled into cliques but MMS is a horrible experience for their kids.
So, Kharn, you live in Joppatowne as well? Unbelievable. Instead of bashing our school from the outside, why don’t you come visit. Come see first hand what the MMS experience is. If it lives up to what you’ve heard, then DO SOMETHING TO MAKE IT BETTER. Talk to the administration — talk to central office — help the teachers who would more than welcome any support they can get. We need and welcome as much community support as we can get.
Stop posting on here and do something that MAKES A DIFFERENCE!
I am doing something that makes a difference for myself and my family:
We’re moving to Bel Air this summer.
Also had a student interview Mayim Bialik
Sharon Draper came to visit
Several students participated in Polar Bear Plunge with Joppatowne High School Students
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
I hope someone is telling young teachers what work to rule means. It means show up and leave at the agreed upon time. Your day to day duties don’t change. We had someone today try and argue lunch duty. You could end up getting yourself in trouble.
Also teachers who are posting on here please stay on issue. Getting off issue, comments about schools and such doesn’t help fight your cause.
Lunch duty is not in the negotiated agreement. Teachers who are working to rule should not do lunch duty.
Teacher Protests Spread Across Harford County; Educators at 17 Local Schools Refuse to Work Longer Than Their Contracted Hours
http://www.daggerpress.com/2012/06/05/teacher-protests-spread-across-harford-county-educators-at-17-local-schools-refuse-to-work-longer-than-their-contracted-hours/
I wouldn’t be as upset about this issue if we (school system) didn’t have so many worthless and highly paid positions in central office and schools. Our Super makes more than Owe-Malley. The Central Office building is full of overpaid asses that don’t do anything. I know it is probably more complicated than this, but why can’t we just eliminate some of these unneeded positions? And I’m not talking about eliminated a position but keeping the person at the same pay. I understand that very few professions are getting raises, but (like many teachers), I just want a step. I think the reason the security is so tight at Central in because they don’t want anyone to see who the real lazy folks are in the system.
On a side note – I keep hearing how the Board bought out the business across from the fire department. I was told (not the most reliable source) it was for those same laze folks in Central Office. They don’t want to share the garage that already exists. It may even include an elevated walkway. Any truth?
I’m sorry your so dissatisfied. I come from a 100 yr family history of teachers, principal’s and 1 Superintendent. At no time was any of the jobs easy. Everyone felt over worked and not appreciated. However, the kids learned more and were better prepared for life. They were happy to have the job and generally enjoyed what they did. The bottom line is stop bitching. We are in a depression (recession – depending on your politics) EVERYONE works harder for less pay and face layoffs EVERYDAY. (including government employees) If you want to stop teaching, please do because that attitude comes through in the classroom whether you mean it to or not. It is also going on all over the country not just little Harford County. Deal with it or get out, but stop whining like your the only ones effected.
Harford Mom: “EVERYONE works harder for less pay and face layoffs EVERYDAY. (including government employees)”
Not any of the 250+ federal government employees I work with. They received 3% increases and bonuses and none of them were laid off.
your EVERYONE and EVERYDAY emphasis is just hyperbole
Cptn – you can’t compare a federal employee to a county employee – the feds can print money so the idea of having to stick to a budget; any budget is lost to them. The abuse of the taxpayer at the federal level is another whole conversation. The county has to budget without a set tax revenue base so granted raises to anyone has to be much more carefully planned and thought out. As a side note – it’s insulting in this economy that we have 250 federal employees continuing to satiate themselves with taxpayer money – particularly insulting to our teachers and local public employees who haven’t had a raise in years and to taxpayers who have an existing federal bill hovering around 15 trillion than they can’t possibly pay. Glad you all got yours – it just made it that much tougher to pay our county employees.
To be clear, I received none of the Fed pay increases or bonuses. I am a contractor who works beside federal employees doing the same job for much less pay, fewer benefits, and I actually have something called accountability hanging over my head.
Many other contractors were let go at the same time that the promotions, raises, and bonuses were being given to the Feds. A few of these federal employees deserved recognition, most of them deserved the opposite.
It is insulting to those who deserve the pay raises (ie. teachers) but waste at the federal level cannot be used to justify screwing those who rightfully deserve some appreciation and recognition.
Direct your vitriol towards and place accountability on those who dole out the tax payer money without regard to inefficiency or inequity.
I stand corrected the entire country minus 250…(they will also be facing their turn eventually – it happens every so many years. Federal or County – they’re both government employees to me. The environment the teachers work in needs to be changed to get back control of classes, this I support. Responsibility, Accountability and Respect need to return. The rest of it, I also understand, but everyone (minus 250 Fed Employees apparently)goes through this every day. I not only haven’t had a raise in 5 yrs, 3 of the companies, closed for good and another closed locally to move out of MD. Each time I had to start over with less money because that’s a fact of life now. It’s hard on everyone (except 250 fed employees)Whether it’s OT cut, shifts cut, dept cuts, or flat take a cut in pay or loose your job,while you also take on the extra work of those we let go, this is what most people go through everyday – yes Capt Obvious everyday.
Your snarkiness aside, yes people go through it. I and others I know have as well. My point was a matter of perspective.
Why of all public employees are teachers the poster child of waste?
The real meat and potatoes of the excess pay goes to people aside from teachers. Teachers are public fodder on a daily basis while there exists a segment of the population who are insulated from the goings on of the economy while collecting significant sums of federal, state, and local tax money.
We have to blame someone so let’s blame the first government employee we see or hear about.
It is assanine.
I don’t think teachers are the poster child for waste. I hope others don’t either. There is a lot of waste everywhere. They’re having a hard time now and all I’m saying is we all are. Every week just about I’m asked to give money to support education – well of course I do, but I can’t afford it at this rate and neither do most people I know. We’re all going through the same things at our jobs too. It sucks, I know.
The kids learned more because they were not allowed to go home and play video games from 3pm to 3am. What am I suppose to do with a brain that is coming down off a video high. The other problem is we continuously see people who make six figures do nothing to increase student achievement. I have not seen Ms. Canavan (Director of Middle Schools), Dr. Brown (Director of Community Engagement), Dr. Tomback or any of the other money-makers in my Rt. 40 School encouraging teachers and asking us what we need to do our jobs. Why is it that these people are not being scrutinized and bashed in a public forum. Where are they? I know… sitting in an office doing nothing but patting each other on the back and finalizing their vacations. They are certainly not doing anything to help me increase student achievement or be better at my job. PS.. If we are in a recession, tell them to give up their gas cards and perks.
Isn’t that what you pay your union dues for – Have the teachers tried to demand a meeting – who does that if not the teachers or the union. Does he go to Board Meetings – stalk him there.
The person letting there kid play video games till 3am is a problem that no school system will help (natural selection will but not with the entitlement system in place)
I understand the frustration theses teachers are feeling. However, I am a working mother of two students in harford county schools, and I have not had a raise in the last three years either and as much as I need a raise. My daughter is in high school and had a illness this year that caused her to miss the month of February. After trying to self teach herself to stay on task and get caught up she ended up having to have surgery and missed another 2 weeks. When she came back from her surgery her teachers were not available to her to provide the assistance that she needed. We were not aware of the “work to contract” until recently. As a parent, I am extremely upset to know that my child did not get the help she needed from her teachers due to a paycheck. So when I child called me crying over her grades today, I should have told her, “baby, its ok that you failed this quarter as long as your teacher gets her raise, because that is what is important.” When students are being affect this is not cool at all.
Concerned Mother,
You’re barking up the wrong tree…the blame for teachers working to contract lies at the feet of the county executive who won’t fund what the teachers and BOE agreed to. They are simply doing their jobs…no more, no less. This has only been going on for a short while….and you can see how it will impact everything. How much worse do you think it will be next year when it goes on for an entire school year? When after school activities are cancelled? Teachers have no choice anymore but to do no more than what they are contracted to do. If you don’t like it, you need to be in touch with King David to tell him to honor the teachers’ contracts and pay them what they were promised. Teachers are sick and tired of being expected to go above and beyond while being treated like trash by the county and by the citizens of this county. And if you doubt how they’re treated and looked upon, look no further than the Dagger…people have such a hatred for teachers and it’s gone on long before the contract situation arose. Most people have NO CLUE WHATSOEVER about what really goes on in public schools.
Dear concerned mother:
What in blazes are you talking about? The teachers ARE NOT stopping their work or refusing to help your daughter or others “just for a raise”. They are trying to show YOU and the rest of the public that by working ONLY the hours for which they are paid will showcase just how much they actually do outside of their regular working hours. AND ALL FOR FREE!! Please recognize the worth of what they do.
If we can learn anything from this discourse, it is to send your children to private school, when ever and where ever possible.
The only thing better about private school is discipline problems can be kicked out. Then public schools have to take them. I hope your kid is well behaved.
A few years back, I bought a bookshelf at a yardsale for my classroom (yes, with my own money…). It was too heavy for me to deal with and since my husband (who works in the private sector) was off for a dental appt he volunteered to bring it to school and put it back together for me. He worked quietly in the back of the room for about a half hour and left. At home that night he went on and on about how he couldn’t believe what came out of those wonderful high school mouths and how they carried on and “didn’t they understand how important learning was” and on and on. He ended by telling me he could never be a teacher and he doesn’t understand how I can deal with them on a daily basis and not want to smack some sense into them.
Discipline issues undermine much of the learning environment in classrooms. Obviously if you have to stop a lesson to deal with a student who is talking/fooling around, throwing bits of paper at other students, making noises, texting on their phone, getting up in the middle of your explanation to loudly sharpen a pencil (the list goes on…) it interferes with the students that were paying attention to begin with. And Lord help you if you reprimand them…let the rudeness begin! Send them to the office? They’ll be back. And have a parent/teacher (and sometimes administrator) conference? I can’t tell you how many times I realize that as rude as that child is to me I can see during the conference that they actually do treat me with more respect than they do their parent…it’s not the level I wanted, but they are running rings around their parents.
We were told at the beginning of the school year by our principal that we would be paying substitutes to baby sit students in “In school suspension” because a directive came from the top levels of central office that they were to limit out of school suspensions. It’s all about those end of the year stats for attendance and suspensions! So then, first thing in the morning, not only are you trying to prepare your lessons for the day, but figure out what kind of work you can send to in school suspension for that student to do while he sits there all day. Not every subject lends itself to independent student work and you either send ‘busy’ work that the teacher and the student know is just a waste of time or it comes back unfinished because they didn’t understand it…imagine that, they need to actually be taught the information.
I remember reading an article in the Sunpaper sometime around February/March about a directive from the State Dept of Education that all counties should be working on a plan so that in 3 years the only reason for a student to be removed from school would be possession of a weapon. Every other offense should keep the student in school. I cannot imagine a classroom with no real consequences to behavior issues. I’m thinking it will spawn a new catch phrase…”Interrupted learning” for those that do want to learn. Private school will probably experience a huge growth rate in attendance-most likely the students like the ones I have now that will tell a student that is disrupting the lesson to “shut up so we can finish”.
TAKE A STAND FOR PUBLIC EDUCATION!!!!!
Support your Schools!
STAND UP FOR PUBLIC EDUCATION!!!
Come to the Board of Education meeting on Monday.
MEETING OF THE BOARD OF EDUCATION
MONDAY, JUNE 11, 2012
HCPS A. A. ROBERTY BUILDING
102 S. Hickory Avenue, Bel Air, MD 21014
Board Business Meeting – 7:00 P.M. – Board Room
COME EARLY SO YOU CAN GET A SEAT!