Can Harford County afford to increase funding for education? The answer from the teachers’ union was a big ‘yes’, in a presentation made by Robert Pellicoro, an independent financial analyst working for the union. Pellicoro presented his findings at two separate meetings held on Monday in Bel Air.
Pellicoro said that his credentials included the analysis of public school spending by local jurisdictions for unions in Maryland and Virginia, and that his work for the Harford County Education Association, the union representing county teachers, was based on data reported by Harford County government.
Pellicoro cited several sources of potential funding for increases to teacher salaries. He said that county revenues exceeded budget estimates for the past five years by an average of $15.5 million per year, which could have been used to fund increases for education, but was instead put into reserves known as the county “fund balance”. He also criticized the county’s increased use of “paygo” or pay-as-you-go funding for capital projects, saying that other counties had prioritized people over capital projects and cut paygo funding to fund their operating budgets, which include teacher salaries. Stopping short of calling for tax increases, Pellicoro decried two previous cuts to the property tax rate in Harford County, which he said cost the county a total of $ 10 million each year.
The presentation on behalf of the teachers’ union also included a chart comparing changes in expenditures over the past two years, showing that education spending in the Harford County general fund rose by 2% while spending in other areas grew by 14%. The bulk of the non-school increases came from a jump in paygo spending, increases in debt service, and in a category called “Social Services and Health”. The chart compared actual spending from fiscal year 2011 with spending in the proposed budget for fiscal year 2013.
The written portion of the presentation concluded: “It’s not a lack of funding. It’s a combination of priorities and the unwillingness to take the necessary action to weather the economic storm. Contact the County Council to demand funding priorities be returned to education.”
Approximately 40 teachers assembled at Bel Air High School Monday to hear the presentation, which was later repeated at a meeting of the Harford County Board of Education.
Also in attendance at the Bel Air High School gathering were two members of the Harford County Council. Council Vice-President and longtime educator Dick Slutzky said that teachers were not alone, and that no other county employees had gotten raises in recent years. Regarding next year’s fiscal 2013 budget, he said that, by law, the council would have to take funds from another county department or agency in order to fund increases in education above the levels proposed by County Executive David Craig. Slutzky asked union members to consider, “who do you want to lose their job?” to pay for teacher salary increases, adding that unlike other counties, Harford County had avoided teacher cuts and furloughs. Councilman Dion Guthrie told the teachers that their pressure should be directed at the county executive.
Regarding county finances, Slutzky said that recent increases in income tax revenue had come from the arrival of 8,200 BRAC jobs, which he said would not continue. He also said that the increased income tax revenue was offset by a sharp drop in property tax revenues, and that the cost of teacher pensions would add a new annual expense for the county. The cost of the teacher pensions are being gradually shifted from the state to local governments, which Slutzky said would cost Harford County $5.5 million in fiscal 2013,rising in three years to an estimated $10 – 15 million. Defending the county fund balance, Slutzky said that the county was required to keep a certain amount in reserve. He also cited several school capital projects paid for by the county in recent years that had added to the county’s debt service. He said that new capital projects were now on hold.
Monday evening, school board members received the union’s presentation on county finances but questioned the choice of venue. School Board President Leonard Wheeler, noting that the school board had no taxing authority, asked Pellicoro, “What utility does your presentation have to this board?” Pellicoro suggested it was to assist school board members in requesting funds based on need, rather than what might be “dictated” by county officials.
Citing the example of Baltimore City, Board Vice President Rick Grambo questioned the link between high taxes and improvements in school performance. Regarding funding for capital projects, Grambo said that cutting paygo funding would mean that the county would have to borrow more money, adding to the debt. “If you want to be taken seriously, you might want to rethink paygo,” Grambo said. Pellicoro said that the use of paygo funding was a better choice when interest rates were higher than they are now.
Randy Cerveny, president the Harford County Education Association, said in response to a question after the meeting that the union was not advocating for tax increases. He said that the purpose of the presentation was to make the community aware that funds are available but that a shift in priorities was needed.
Below is the full text of the presentation:
Yawn… So, he tells the BOE everything everyone already knows – and this is news how?
The fact that a county can scream poverty with surpluses speaks volumes for itself. It is not just a shift of priorities – it’s dishonest. Of course David Craig is gearing up for the fight of his life to be governor, and truth is usually the first victim in any war. No surprises here… plenty of posturing.
As for “Coach” commenting that this neglect is spread to other county employees, including those who protect us (deputies), he should hide his face in shame and embarrassment. He did, though, ask a great question, “‘who do you want to lose their job?'” Answer – let us begin with Mr. Craig and then work our way through the County Council.
There you go… let the %#@* storm begin.
There is no surplus. Housing starts are nearly zero; home values continue to slide, unemployment is higher than 4 years ago and people just aren’t spending the money they once did. Just where do you propose the money come from for the raise you think you deserve? I might add I work far more hours on an annual basis than you do, commute a fairly long distance, make less money, and have fewer benefits. You think I ought to pay higher taxes to give you more? I like my council representative becuase he’s made it very clear by word and deed that he supports all of his constituents, not just county employees.
No surplus? I will agree with you today, then. Just offer a “my bad” statement when the Aegis reports a surplus, proving you are wrong.
No surplus?! Please back up that claim.
I think the money should come from revenue already raised by the CE.
In my previous life in the private industry my employer paid 100% of my medical and dental. My benefits were cut by becoming a public servant.
You really don’t know how many hours I worked, or how long my commute was… or how many jobs I have. You might want to be careful tossing claims like this in ignorance.
If you work hard, improve at what you do, and your employer can afford to give you an earned increase and doesn’t – give me some contact info. I’ll put in a good word for you. You earned it and deserve it. So have I. See, I don’t know you but value your contribution – whatever it is. You know what I do, but don’t value it. What does this suggest?
Typical response…although not unexpected. Your time in the private sector has nothing to do with a demand we increase teacher’s salaries. Good for you that you’re previous employer paid 100% of your benefits; that would certainly be the rarity, the extreme rarity, as it’s almost always a shared cost; your employer kicks in for health care and matches 401k funds – pretty much the same thing you have to do as a teacher so it isn’t like you’re so put out. The hours and benefits of teachers are public knowledge – off hand I think you’re contracted for 192 days, at 37 hrs. per week in Harford. Private sector employees work various numbers of days, but it would generally be around 240-250 days, at 40 hrs. per week min. To suggest I don’t value what you do isn’t accurate or honest; I do, but I don’t think given the current economic situation accross the board raises for public employees is wise. Mr. Slutzkys’s question is a good one “who do you want fired so that you can get a raise” because there is no money tree, we’re tapped out with a finite amount of funds.
Ok, Mr. Slutzky’s statement was true…there has to be firings to pay for pay raises because the money tree is tapped out.
Again, I buy it today because you say so. Just offer me a “my bad” when the Aegis reports a surplus in the tens of millions of dollars.
“Typical response…although not unexpected.”
Huh?
“Your time in the private sector has nothing to do with a demand we increase teacher’s salaries.”
Uh, the point was to illustrate benefits… my benefits as a teacher are actually less than what they were in my previous private sector experience. It’s spot on.
“Good for you that you’re previous employer … it isn’t like you’re so put out.”
For the industry I worked in – it wasn’t all that rare. As teachers we don’t have 401(k) accounts… it’s called a 403(b), and our employer does NOT pay into it. Oh yeah, we get to pay an extra 2% income tax as well that you are spared.
“The hours and benefits of teachers are public knowledge …”
Do you personally know any teachers? What the contract stipulates vs. what we really do are two different animals. My day is typically 10-12 hours long, if you factor in grading at home. To get the classroom ready normally requires I show up in August well before those 190 days start getting paid… I figure I log about 2100 hours a year.
“Private sector employees work various numbers of days, but it would generally be around 240-250 days, at 40 hrs. per week min.”
At 40 hours a week spread over 5 days for 250 days… that would be 2000 hours a year – almost as much as a teacher. I’d give up on the “time at work” argument right now – I didn’t add in summer work…
“To suggest I don’t value what you do isn’t accurate or honest; I do,”
Wow, what would hostile look like?
“but I don’t think given the current economic situation accross the board raises for public employees is wise.”
Why? If our work is valuable and the county runs a $32 million surplus – good grief – when would it be wise?
“Mr. Slutzkys’s question is a good one “who do you want fired so that you can get a raise” because there is no money tree, we’re tapped out with a finite amount of funds.”
Um, there is that $32 million left over from last year… that is hardly tapped out. Mr. Slutzky’s question is a cop-out.
Honestly, be honest in this discussion. You would have me believe Harford County’s finances are on the ropes, they are not. We can afford a step increase for all county employees. Paying loyal employees is not a commitment for Mr. Craig or the Council – period. Keep this mentality going for a few years, then look at your services. Seriously, you are talking like a fool’s slave.
If your job is so terrible go back to the private sector. Yes, I know teachers as relatives, neighbors and friends. Nobody is hostile to you – just wish teacher’s would give up the talking points about 60 hr. weeks because I know better.
Dick should ask himself who he wants to fire. It is his political, partisan decision-making which has caused this situation. At any time he and the rest of the council could tell Mr. Craig “No More!”
“At 40 hours a week spread over 5 days for 250 days… that would be 2000 hours a year – almost as much as a teacher. I’d give up on the “time at work” argument right now – I didn’t add in summer work…”
Just a minor detail but your math is off (hopefully you do not teach it). We are paid for 40 hours a week (we normally work more just ike you) we are paid for 5 days a week (we normally have to put in a weekend or two here and there – just like you) and in my schedule there are normally 52 weeks in a year (this week it is 53). Which means that we work at a minimum 2080 hours per year – pretty much in the same ball park as a teacher I think – the difference is we have to spread our combined 2-4 weeks or so of vacation/sick time over the entire year and our companies don’t close over the summer, for Christmas break and Thanksgiving. Teachers also receive vacation days to use during the school year right? Just like us. You see we are all inthe same boat, we all put our pants on the same way and we all have a job to do and most of us are lucky enough to choose that job! Count your blessings everyone because it does not seem to be gettng any better.
Well, you are correct, sort of. If you add in another factor that does change the math. It does not change the scenario given by Money Tree, however. So if you want to blur the issue by changing parameters to make my statement wrong (whew, I got dizzy with that one), then have it. However, you and I both know that is a dishonest representation.
Since you are bent on making it out to be true that we’re in the same boat… answer me this: If your employer bragged that he kept operational costs low and had a surplus $32 million left over, and has held your salary down for 3 years and then screamed he lacked money to pay you a contracted step increase… what would you do? Be honest.
In response to Jarrettsville Mom…indeed somebody’s math is off but with all due respect it might be yours. The contract reads 190 days @ 37.5 work week and of the 190 days there are 3 paid personals allowed. That makes it 187 days of “work” as contracted. 187 x 7.5 = 1402.5 hours per year vs. the 2000 in the private sector which as an hourly wage makes teaching quite lucrative. Also summer work is compensated as are extra curricular activity as are activities after school – the football coach makes an additional $3623, and drama will get you $2232 beyond base salary. It’s all very carefully laid out in the contract which is online for anybody to look at. As unfair as teachers think the the step increase issue is I would suggest they be honest about what they’re actually entitled to instead of all these grossly disproportionate claims apparently designed to sell it to the taxpayer.
Money Tree… Your information is correct. However, if you analyze those coaching positions, etc…, and really do the math you quickly learn how cheap coaches are. I have coached two different sports for a total of 13 years. Daily practices that ran 2 hours, planning for practice, meetings with parents, meetings with athletic directors, CPR/AED training time, meetings with officials, time on away games (some nights we didn’t get back until 9:30 or later), team meetings, and on and on it goes. I worked it out one season that I made $.87 an hour and my assistant less than that. No one coaches for the money – if they do they are a fool. A part time job in retail will pay more than a $1 an hour.
Won’t argue that point as I’m sure there’s a commitment to coaching that goes far beyond the pay. I’ll certainly be sure to thank all the fathers that coach little league for zero compensation. My purpose of mentioning the pay scales for extra curricular activities is there seems to be a concerted effort to delude the public into believing all these activities are out of pocket and purely self-sacrifice. It’s not honest to fail to mention the payments.
9 hours of required unpaid duty each year is not something I look forward to… how much do you volunteer for your employer?
Seriously – comparing investing in your own child’s pursuits compared with coaching in schools? Please don’t bring up the honesty issue again…
There’s the crack in the armor; a refreshing dose of the truth – saw that in the contract as well, 9 hours required that includes teacher-parent conferences, after school tutoring, etc., the list is pretty long as to how you can use the 9 hours, but after that it’s all compensated. The really sweet part of the contract that nobody talks about. My goodness…teach 20 years and retire; you’ve accumulated 1.25 days per month of sick time and with a 200 day cap you can walk out the door with a check for $70-80K. I started sort of weighing the 9 hours/annually against a day and a quarter of “free” money/monthly. If one of them went away which one would it be, the mandatory 9 hours of the tens of thousands at retirement?
Uh, those items are not included in the 9 hours. Parent teacher conferences (4 times per year for 3 hours = 12 hours) + back to school night (3 hours) + freshman registration/orientation (2 hours) + duties (already mentioned, 9 hours) = 26 hours total, just over half a work week for you. All unpaid. All after hours. If you want to factor in time spent after school for make-up work for kids whose familes go on cruises and other vacations I can’t afford… easily another 50 hours a year. You mentioned you know teachers, I suggest very strongly you talk to them about what they do.
Have you begun to understand that we do far more than the contract you seem so convinced is followed to the letter? You do understand when we “work to rule” that means we will follow the letter of that document, yes?
And for what it’s worth – my coaching days ended a while ago. I urge all coaches to stop coaching. As you say, parents will happily coach for free! That would be a good savings for the school system.
What seems to be lost on teachers is that pretty much everybody out there does extra. Try running a small business…in time the rewards can be plenty but certainly not in the beginning when you have little return, big financial outlays and easily 16 hour days. Small business owners go into it willingly because they like being in charge of their own destiny enough so that an initial sacrifice is worth it to them. Sure get the impression from the response of most of the teachers here that they really aren’t in this for kids – not sure what might have motivated any of you to pursue teaching? I apologize in advance because I know it’ll tick some off, but you all sound like a bunch of spoiled brats.
Perhaps the school system should get out of the athletic team business. Physical education requirements are met through phys ed classes during normal school hours, anything else is an extra expense to the entire system that draws valuable resources away from the classroom. Anyone interested in team and individual sporting activities for their children should do so out of their own pocket through organizations like parks and rec programs, club level teams or private lessons. We don’t support extra curricular athletics in elementary and middle school maybe we should give consideration to dropping it in high school. When you consider the amount of money spent on the disproportionally small number of students that participate in extra curricular athletics it is not fair to the rest of the students or the parents/taxpayers whose children do not or cannot participate, or get cut from the team. Maybe there should be a no cut rule. If I have to pay for it than all students, including mine, should be able to participate regardless of skill level. After all, the athletic field is supposed to be an extension of the classroom, but not all are allowed the privilege. Why should tax dollars go to a certain few students to help them gain an athletic scholarship to some college? If this money were put into academics perhaps more students would earn academic scholarships. We need more superstar intelligent people to run this country in the future and fewer superstar athletes. Some school districts make students pay a fee to help offset the cost of these extras. If you insist on having high school sports than maybe these programs should be self supporting. Maybe there should be consideration that if a sport cannot generate enough income to sustain itself it should be dropped. Much talk here about coaching salaries but that is just the start. What about all the rest like uniforms, equipment, transportation, over the top athletic facilities, not even considering the amount of time lost in the classroom for students leaving early for games. I have heard many teachers complain about this practice. Eliminating extra curricular athletics could save the school system millions of dollars each year. Now you’re talking some real money.
The Money Tree – thanks for the math clarification – I did not know the hours their contrats state only what the writer put out there.
And on that note – in response to:
“Well, you are correct, sort of. If you add in another factor that does change the math. It does not change the scenario given by Money Tree, however. So if you want to blur the issue by changing parameters to make my statement wrong (whew, I got dizzy with that one), then have it. However, you and I both know that is a dishonest representation.
Since you are bent on making it out to be true that we’re in the same boat… answer me this: If your employer bragged that he kept operational costs low and had a surplus $32 million left over, and has held your salary down for 3 years and then screamed he lacked money to pay you a contracted step increase… what would you do? Be honest”
My employer has been laying off in order to keep costs at a minimum (so much for hope and change) and our salaries have been held for three years (just being honest here!)
and we do not receive bonuses, but “Honestly” again we are all in the same boat and I chose my profession just as I am sure you did and it is what it is and neither of us are probably in a position to change that nor would want to. So just keep pushing forward, doing your best to make sure you are not in the bucket of cuts as they come around (oh sorry teachers don’t really have layoffs around here do they?) and be thankful each payday that you have one adn that we have one to pay our taxes with and help support the system. Same boat!
Interesting premise that I’m sure would go over like a lead balloon. Did find it interesting that of all the categories of extra curricular teacher involvement one of the least well compensated was involvement with the Honors Progam – it paid slightly over 1K, while the football coach gets over 3K. Something does seem off kilter there after all aren’t schools ultimately supposed to be about academics?
@JarrettsvilleMom – You are one of those people who drive teachers insane. Teachers DO NOT get paid vacation days, like you. Teachers DO NOT get paid for those Thanksgiving and Christmas breaks, those days off are NOT included in our 190 work days. You may have to work one weekend a month, big deal, you get paid for that… Teachers work EVERY weekend a month, August-June, without pay. And guess what, many teachers work all summer long because schools are closed…… we need to make ends meet. I would gladly work all summer at school, keep them open, I love the idea.
Not every school in the county is as cushy as the lovely little Jarrettsville schools. (and yes, my child goes to one of them) I think you are getting a one-sided view of life where children go to school coming from loving, stable, secure families. It’s not the same everywhere. Does anyone at your place of work get in your face and tell you to “shut-up”? Do you have to break up fist fights at your job? What if you have a sore throat? Can you spend the day at your job talking less? I can’t.
Teachers are grateful for their jobs and I’m sick of people saying that we’re not. We’re not asking for a raise in our pay, we’re not asking for a COLA…we’re only asking for our contracted step increases.
Teachers ALWAYS hold up their end of their contracts, why shouldn’t the BOE and the county do the same.
If your friends/relatives who are teachers aren’t working hard then they are the problem. They should be fired and replaced with new teachers. Fire the bad ones and give the good ones a raise. I know…that’s not fair. Life isn’t fair. Good teachers deserve the raises. Bad/Lazy ones deserve another career. Everyone who has children knows which teachers at their child’s school belong in each category.
Couldn’t agree more. There’d be plenty of money to give raises to those that deserved it if we weren’t forced to reward (equally) those that don’t.
I totally agree with you, Grady, but that is one of the severe downsides to a union with too much power. The underperforming teachers, and there are many, are able to use the union to keep their jobs. To all the good, responsible, highly effective teachers out there, how do you justify the “dance of the lemons” your union allows to continue? How about you, Mr. Burbey, how do you respond to that question?
Mr. Money tree, if you want to be a communist you are in the wrong country.
Seems my house is worth more now than last year!!!!
You are wrong. Look at the Harford County Office of Economic Development website.
WAA!
Google Robert Pellicoro. His firm is a union advocacy group that goes around telling local governments that they can spend more taxpayer money and give teachers raises. They have been doing it here and in other counties around the state for years.
There’s certainly nothing wrong with that, but just don’t be fooled that this was an “independent financial analysis.”
Yes, something about the phrase “independent financial analyst working for the union” that just doesn’t jive, am I right?
Like all those independent drug studies funded by the pharmecutical companies, right?
This is where we are as a society, that someone can even say the phrase “independent financial analyst working for the union” with a straight face.
Noble,
There is no such thing as an independent financial analyst. At one time in my career I was a financial analyst. I never knew one who was truly independent. The first question is always “Who am I working for and who is paying my fee?” The resulting analysis is always finding the numbers as honestly as we can to lend as much credence as we can to the position and situation that our client believes already exists. If the other side wants to lend credence to their position then they hire their own ‘independent’ analyst.
I am just curious how long should public employees wait for a raise?
…it’s not a raise that the majority of teachers would like. Most teachers would simply like the step increase that they were shown when they signed their contract…thinking, “ok..I can get by on this salary now, but in 5 years I’ll be making this, and things will be easier – things being a house, kids, etc.” whooops.
I have a suggestion. How about instead of spending over 30 million in Pay Go Projects, we spend it on all of our public servants, not just teachers, sheriffs, county workers, social workers, librarians and everyone else employed by Harford County who has not gotten their agreed upon wage in three years. Before anyone says it, no we shouldn’t take on more debt. Just don’t fund projects that we can’t afford when we aren’t paying our workers.
I can understand the local government not having the money to pay teachers the way they want to be paid. I know full well that you can’t squeeze blood from a stone. What I don’t understand is this: Why are new teachers being asked to sign contracts that HCPS knows it cannot honor? Why lure teachers in with the promise of a pay-scale increase program, only to tell them year after year that they won’t be getting those increases? Where is the incentive going to come from when you continue to ask teachers to do more with less? The public needs to recognize that bad teachers don’t just show up and trick principals into hiring them with their remarkably good interviewing skills; bad teachers are created by a government that insists on putting more pressure on teachers to perform without any incentives, allows students to succeed with being challenged (lest we let those graduation numbers fall below the federal mandate!), and DOES NOT hold parents even REMOTELY accountable for their own child’s education. The biggest crime, aside from the one HCPS knowingly commits by asking employees to sign a contract they can’t honor, is that anytime a teacher tries to advocate for themselves, the community at large villifies them and their profession. Teachers pay taxes, are active members of the community, and offer an invaluable academic and social education to our future citizens. Shouldn’t they be treated with some dignity and respect?
Shocker. The teachers’ union hired an analyst that says they can be paid more. Imagine that.
LAST DAY FOR TEACHERS ANNOUNCED – THURSDAY, JUNE 14
Negotiators for the Board of Education have twice met with representatives of the Harford County Education Association (HCEA) in the past week as part of court-ordered re-negotiations over the terms of its current (2011-2012) contract. As the original agreement, which would have included COLA and step increases for teachers, was not funded by the Harford County fiscal authorities, the Board was unable to agree to the HCEA’s singular demand of a retroactive COLA of two percent and a one-step increase.
The Board reiterated its previously made offer of a paid bonus day on the last day of school for teachers (June 14th), but the HCEA bargaining team rejected that offer, which means that we cannot provide the bonus day for teachers at this time. The HCEA bargaining team made no other proposals besides the two percent COLA increase and one step, retroactive to July 1, 2011. The Board’s negotiating team responded by indicating that there was no County funding available to pay for these demands, at which point the Union chose not to bargain any further, having made no other proposals.
At this time the matter remains unresolved and as such, the last workday for teachers is Thursday, June 14th. The last day for other 10-month employees, i.e. support employees in the HCESC bargaining unit, remains Wednesday, June 13th. All 12-month employees already received the bonus day which took place on December 27, 2011. If you have specific questions regarding your end-of-year schedule, please contact your immediate supervisor.
Open war against teachers?
As a taxpayer, this annoys me only because it seems that the board is playing a game of “how bad can we look to the Labor Relations Board?” They are going to get taken to the cleaners and my taxes are going to go up! Quit playing games you can’t win and throw the teachers a bone before you have to throw them the entire steak!
Demanding a retroactive pay raise for the entire length of the school year was a very bold move. I bet it was intentionally non-viable so HCEA can run to the labor board and cry some more.
I would be interested to hear the official total value of the demanded increases, but we can do a quick bit of math and get a good estimate: With HCPS reporting ~2800 teachers, and ~5400 total employees, a total compensation budget of $272mil, we can assume the teachers probably consume $~136mil. 2% of that would be an $2.72mil payment, plus a step for all teachers (approx $1,500), which would be $~4.2mil.
So, HCEA demanded an immediate $~6.9 million dollar payout. That’s some gumption.
Karhn, you either don’t understand, or have your head so far up your rear end that you don’t know which way is up anymore. This isn’t some magic number the union pulled out of their butts. This is what was PROMISED to teachers in the negotiated agreement. HCPS failed to live up to the agreement that they agreed to. Yes, HCPS doesn’t control the county budget. But you can’t tell me they’re not aware of what King David will and won’t fund. So they agreed to a pay raise that they knew would never happen…who’s playing the games?? Then magically, at the end of the year, King David has a $32 million surplus. WE HAVE A SURPLUS EVERY YEAR IN THIS COUNTY!!! Who’s getting paid to forecast this crap and lie about it with a straight face??? And you’re damn right it would be retroactive…because that’s what teachers should have been making all school year….what they were promised.
I love the analogy, what education do you want students to have, the bone or the steak? In simplistic terms, you get what you pay for.
Reasonably, when I see the doctor, I want him to have the fillet mignon of education.
Great, another classic HCEA move just like the bonus money.
Wait a second…you haven’t had a raise in years, your Board of Education was found by a court of law to be in violation of the contracted negotiation process, had to have Circuit Court issue a restraining order against them just to get them to come to the table, then they came but refused to discuss financial issues…and you are going to blame it on ….HCEA???
Not open war on teachers. The HCEA has one demand that is, apparently, not negotiable. If the HCEA doesn’t want to offer an alternate proposal then you can’t negotiate with a stone wall. The ball is in the court of the HCEA which has decided to leave the game. It is funny that the HCEA, who represents teachers, does not know the meaning of the word ‘negotiate’. Negotiating can’t happen when the HCEA says take it or leave it and if you won’t agree to our demands we are going home.
HCEA wanted to negotiate the agreed upon pay increases. HCPS counter with offering a day off of work. HCPS refused to negotiate on pay. So I am not sure whose court the ball is in now.
Bottom line seems like most of the private sector no longer cares about public education. Seems like the powers that drive hcps no longer care about thier employees. End results kids will lose. Congrats to all of those invovled.
I can’t wait to see hcps recruit new teachers.
Negotiations
This was sent to me by a friend in Anne Arundel County – sound
familiar?
“Negotiations remain stalled due to the pending budget controversy.
Your TAAAC negotiating team believes vehemently that available funding should be used provide some financial relief to our educators that have seen too little in recent years. Depending on their respective position on the salary scale, Unit 1 educators have been on the same step for three to six years and there are members of the County Council who want to extend the hardship to four to seven years despite having the money to do otherwise. At least for now, the best way for members to help is to don something red and attend tonight’s hearing.”
@readthefacts
What tired rhetoric you spew about the evil private sector and HCPS overlords mistreat and overwork the underpaid teachers.
The private sector is where all the taxes come from to pay your stinking salary and phenomenal benefits you ungrateful disrespectful lout.
Oh and you then say “End results kids will lose”. Pathetic…
Please immediately hand in your resignation since you are not fit to educate our children.
Patrick, you seriously need a finance lesson. Maybe Slutsky could fill you in. Certain taxes are earmarked for the education budget including but not limited to transfer and recordation taxes. We are only asking that the negotiated agreement signed and ratified last year be honored. The board agreed to one thing and then went back on their agreement. That is all. It is just that simple.
That’s right! If you can’t keep your morale up, keep smiling, keep coaching and sponsoring and going above and beyond your contract to make our schools a great place for my kids while you get screwed out of salary increases and having your benefits eroded, then hand in your resignation! You are clearly not the kind of teacher we want or need in Harford County Public Schools!
Don’t feed the troll.
Calling out both days who gives a rats ass
I am not coming in. Period. They can kiss my —. Not calling out either. They can figure it out. I’m going to look very hard for another job this summer. I have a business degree as well as a masters in education. I love teaching and working with the kids, but I feel so devalued right now.
Oh, who cares anyway….
You can’t call out on the final teacher days without written approval from the elementary or secondary supervisor
What are they gonna do? Fire us?
Hopefully.
Dock your pay, fire you, involuntarily transfer you to a school on the other side of the county, etc.
Failure to show up for work and failure to correctly document time are terminating offenses in private industry, why not in teaching?
Mr. Morale has left the building!!!
From HCEA Website:
“Forced by court order, the Board of Education returned to the bargaining table with HCEA this week. The Board’s team came to the table without the authority to discuss any compensation issues. They told the HCEA team that they were not prepared to bargain over any financial issues whatsoever.
This means that, in the view of the Association, the Board of Education has not complied with the order of the Circuit Court to return to the table and bargain in good faith.
In response to the Board’s position, HCEA will immediately file a petition with the Public School Labor Relations Board, asking the Labor Board for a declaration of impasse.
If the Labor Board declares impasse, HCEA will proceed to mediation in an attempt to resolve financial issues with the assistance of a neutral mediator.
If HCEA is unsuccessful in reaching an agreement through mediation, HCEA will appeal to the Labor Board to issue a decision that will be binding on both parties, HCEA and the Board of Education.”
No teacher in the county wants this war. We do this job for the kids. I work so hard and for what?
HCEA is not helping.
Wait a second…you haven’t had a raise in years, your Board of Education was found by a court of law to be in violation of the contracted negotiation process, had to have Circuit Court issue a restraining order against them just to get them to come to the table, then they came but refused to discuss financial issues…and you are going to blame it on ….HCEA???
HCPS doesn’t have the power to levy taxes or raise funding.
And you have all had jobs while many in the private sector don’t
I am so sick and stinking tired of hearing that whiney arguement…”well, at least you have a job.” At what point is enough enough??? Would you have let your parents beat you with a whip and say, “oh well, at least I have a place to live?” HELL NO!!! If everyone had your spine, nothing would ever get accomplished. The squeaky wheel gets the grease…and it’s about time teachers made their voices heard. And for all of you sorry parents out there who don’t have a clue, like to bad mouth teachers and make excuses for your sad sack kids…please, do us a favor…keep them home and home school them. If HCPS teachers are that bad, take your kids out of the schools…nobody will mind.
I think that most of those who post that teachers should be glad they have a job no longer have children in the school system. Otherwise they would be more in tune with what is going on in schools and sympathetic to teachers and what they do for their children.
Trying to justify unfairness by citing other unfairness is an absurd manipulation.
I’ll just cut off one of your arms but you should be glad you still have the other. Feel better now?
Don’t speak for others. This “war” may be the the only thing that will bring about change. It’s time for teachers to get their salary steps, even if that means some teachers have to be let go. If that increases class sizes, then maybe the citizens of this county will push for greater increases in education spending. There is money available for all county employees to receive their well deserved salary steps. All that is lacking is the leadership to make the tough decisions. The HCEA, although far from perfect, is right on this one.
Everyone says students should be better prepared for college. What better way to prepare them for 400-student lecture halls than having each grade take their English class in the school auditorium as a group? That’d reduce the required number of English teachers substantially, especially after out-sourcing grading to India/China/Pakistan/WhereeverTAscomefrom.
Then why don’t they ditch this useless union and start acting like professionals? The good stay and are rewarded, the bad….well, who knows where they’ll go, just get’em out of the schools!
There is useless ‘dead wood’ in many jobs. And believe me, we all know which teachers in the building aren’t teaching. It’s frustrating to put in all the work I do and have students come ask if they can come to my room to catch up and work because their teacher “doesn’t feel like teaching today” and they’re just watching a movie. Really?
One of the problems with just ‘getting rid of them’ is that in America’s litigation happy society there has to be a ridiculous paper trail documenting problems and the steps taken to assist the teacher to improve before they can finally be let go so the Board of Ed doesn’t get sued. My school is not as large as some in the county yet because of Dr. Tomback’s new evaluation process, my principal and AP’s told us at the beginning of the year that they would not be as accessible to us because they each had over 200 observations, follow up conferences and evaluation conferences so to fit them all in around everything else on their yearly schedule they had to start observing the first week of school. Throw in a teacher on an assistance plan that you want to terminate and the number of times to be in that classroom increases along with the paperwork. Some principals would just rather wait it out till that teacher retires or try to give them the worst schedule/situation possible so they leave of their own accord. Wrong but it happens.
Tired is exactly the kind of teacher they love in Harford County! As I posted in another thread, they should NEVER GIVE TEACHERS A RAISE FOR ANY REASON. Why??? Because they don’t have to!
Teachers like Tired will keep working “for the kids”! They’ll do it without a pay raise, year after year, and will get pissed off at their own voice in the negotiations! All the while, “the kids” parents will keep voting people into office who will refuse to give the same teachers who work for their kids a pay raise!
So you just keep plugging, Tired. Keep working without a raise, keep doing all those extra-curricular events, keep trying to prove that you’re not one of “those bad teachers”! And please, keep blaming the people who are negotiating for YOUR benefits for the problem!
Thank you, Tired, for all you do, for doing it on the cheap, and for thumbing your nose at your own pay and benefits. Remember, Tired…you do it all for the kids, but as a taxpayer, I’ll take some from you too!
As disconcerting as it may be and as much as I hate to say it, I think Observer kind of pegged it.
The teachers in HCPS have long established that they will work for less money, and that they will continue to work overtime, coach sports, run clubs, etc, regardless of how poorly they are treated. It’s honorable to want to do things “for the kids”, but teachers have allowed their good nature and kind-heartedness to be used against them.
Like a lot of people and a lot of teachers, I was raised with the ethic that doing your best, going the extra mile, and always putting the kids first is the key to success and will be rewarded in kind.
Unfortunately, the people who run the system have taken this ethic and used it as a way to manipulate and abuse teachers for their own personal and political agenda.
So unfortunately, Observer is correct. As long as teachers continue to allow their good heartedness to be used against them and refuse the solidarity necessary to stand up for themselves as a group, there really is no incentive for the “powers that be” to improve the pay, benefits, working conditions, or even the morale of teachers.
So I have to give a “thumbs up” because I think Observer has pretty much summed it up. But at the same time, a “thumbs down” because at the same time, it is an absolutely disgusting reality.
Work to rule. That is what needs to happen but it never will because of teachers like tired and the sports coaches. When the free extras are gone maybe the board and the county would wake up!
I agree, but the problem with working to rule is that there is no way in hell you can get everything you need to get done to teach the next day in the daily 45 minute planning period you are given. (Well, at least that’s the amount of planning I get.) It’s easy to stop doing the “free and extra” stuff, but teachers will just end up on plans of assistance if they don’t do everything that is expected regardless if it can’t be accomplished in 45 minutes. It’s a double edged sword. (And it doesn’t help that HCEA wouldn’t help you with this either!)
You can call out sick the last day… Not sure who told you that you can’t be sick. “cough”
Give it a shot…you won’t get paid.
I think we should cough on the last day for students, which is 6/12. It will send a greater message.
Next year there won’t be any in-service days for this guy! That’s 7 paid days off bonus for me
Former teacher you are 100% clueless I have taken off the last teacher workday previously by using a sick day and was not questioned not docked pay. At most they can ask for a sick note.
I apologize…I was thinking of personal day, not sick. To be honest with you, I think the whole county (well, everyone except the butt kissers who would never do it) should have a sick out on the first day of school next year…let’s see what the county does then.
If it can be somehow proven that teachers called in sick and were, in fact, simply having a “sick-out”, it would be my wish to have them fired immdiately.
Kharn you are heartless and your job must suck if you can’t be sick.
I can be sick, but if I fail to report a planned absence I can be reprimanded and denied leave for the day (so it would be an unpaid absence). If I report present instead of absent on my time card I can be fired.
What do you get paid to sit and blog all day???
Many employers allow smoke breaks, I blog instead of ruin my lungs.
The blame game isn’t productive….I just cannot believe how teachers are being toyed with. First the bonus pay and now this. Seems to me that the bonus day should have never been announced until both parties were in agreement, or were they at one point?
My wife recalls the bonus day was for the changes to the benefits package the board arbitrarily changed. The Bonus day was part of this years agreement. SInce the agreement has never been finalized they can withhold it until it is.
2 cents. You are right but if you give more silent work you can plan and grade while the kids work. They still learn and you get work done.
I disagree. First of all, I don’t think my students learn best when they sit and do independent silent work. Besides that, you assume that my students will stand for silent work while I sit and do my own, and that’s just not the case. My students require engaging instruction or their behavior gets out of hand. (And please don’t tell me to send them to the office because that is not acceptable at my school — it is my job to get students to behave.) The bigger problem is that silent work is the fastest route to an unsatisfactory observation in my school. Now where would that get me? On a plan of assistance, that’s where. I guess this strategy might work at some schools, but not mine.
Middle and high school teachers can get away with that. Elementary teachers can’t. I would be written up and put on a plan of assistance in a heart beat if I was caught sitting down during the day. Elementary Schools and the work load of an elementary school teacher is entirely different from middle and high school.
Not so fast. I am in a middle school and like I explained, I couldn’t get away with it.
Let the circular firing squad commence.
You can do it from time to time (once a week) They are still learning perhaps not as well as they could but oh well. If you would get written up for having a day or two quiet while still WORKING is ok. If your school is dead against it then sorry for you
Here is what I don’t understand why do some of you act like you would never advocate to get yourself more money, better benefits, and better working conditions. If you choose the private sector than you deal with your company or your boss. If someone choose the public sector than most of their conditions are decided by elected or appointed officials.
If I go to a restaraunt, hosiptal, or whatever I want to deal with happy employees. If you send your kids to school don’t you want happy teachers? As it has been said many times teachers aren’t looking for a 10% raise, they are looking for what is promised to them. I am in my 25th year and I am do a longevity increase this year (which I won’t get) it is $2000. You get one every 5 years after year 15. 2000/5 equals $400 a year or $2 a day for my contracted 190 days a year. Don’t tell me I am out for a big pay day.
If, better working conditions mean better training materials (books, display boards, desks, labs, efficient class spaces, etc… thereby creating a better learning environment for students) it would seem reasonable that most people would be amenable to that.
If, recognizing those teachers who have enhanced their training methods, (whether it is through attending seminars, improving academic credentials, etc…) and is quantifiable by showing results in producing a greater percentage of successful students benefitting by that teacher’s skills more people would probably be amenable to cash incentives and rewards for those teachers as well.
The overall all local BOE, education program, and administrators have to be considered and be rewarded on their merits
and factored as to their hinderance of progress too.
If, the basic rates of pay for educators is not comparable with those of similar areas meaning socio-economic environments then they should be. The county should also pay for it’s aspirations of improving and competing with those of better standing environments.
However, if, the only reasoning for raising teachers salaries is appears to be extra money in the counties coffers and we deserve it because we represent this collective body then that is flawed logic.
The raises, incentives, etc… need to be tied to quantifiable results.
Harford County does not appear to have substandard school facilities. Please, correct me if, I am wrong on that.
Harford COunties pay is not on par with surrounding jurisdictions!!!!
You are correct there. When people make a google search of pay scales, it appears that you teachers are on par with surrounding counties….but that is only if you make the mistake of equating “step” with “years of service.” A 5 year vet in Harford County is making step one money. A 5 year vet in Baltimore and Cecil Counties are making step 5 money on their respective pay scales. Compare our step one to their step 5…you will see CDEV is correct.
It seems like many people want to attack educators and accuse them of being money hungry or wanting raises just for extra money in their pockets, which is not the case. 2% is not a lot to ask for a pay increase when you are dealing with: the cost of living, an increase in the amount paid for benefits, tighter budgets within the school for supplies, etc. as well as not receiving steps in four years. What many people do not understand is that an educator’s job does not start when the kids walk through the door or end when the kids leave. It does not just involve the 190 days contracted or the 40 hours a week. Teachers put in copious amounts of their own time to develop rigorous, engaging activities for YOUR children. They spend their weekends grading papers, tests and thinking about how to motivate students. Teachers have to get to school early to set up for the day’s activities, labs or events and have to stay late to help students after school or again, prepare for the next day. I dare you to go to a Harford County School after hours, and walk around the school- you would find teachers helping students, planning and grading papers. Those people who think teachers begin and end their day with what’s stated in the contract are absolutely CRAZY! Teachers also spend money out of their own pockets for classroom materials, especially at Route 40 schools. Do they get refunded for what they spend on their classroom? NO! Teachers often times provide paper, pencils, folders, binders, markers, etc. for students who cannot afford them or forget them on a daily basis. Educators are one of the most important professions in society, yet one of the lowest paid. Teachers go into education knowing they are not going to make six figures, but it would be nice to get a raise or step in pay to let them know that they are in fact valued and appreciated. Without educators, where would our society be today? Look at other countries that do not have a strong, valued educational system. They are considered “third world countries” and many people living within their borders struggle with literacy. What most people also don’t know is that many teachers hold second jobs as tutors, bartenders, coaches, servers and cashiers in order to make ends meet. Most people who are writing on this wall and who are devaluing educators saying they do not deserve a pay increase need to take a minute and reflect on who helped them get to where they are today. If you cannot think of a teacher who has inspired you or helped you somewhere along the line, than I truly feel sorry for you because you obviously did not have a very good school experience. If Harford County does not start showing their teachers they are valued, they are going to start seeking employment with other districts and in other states. Harford County needs to wake up and realize that their county employees are not happy because they do not feel valued or appreciated and are starting to explore other options. This is not saying that those teachers do not love their job, or their kids or even their schools… it is simply stating they do not enjoy the politics and lack of initiative the county is taking to help them survive.
If you’re a great teacher and put in extra time and dedication to your students then by all means let’s get you a raise, but not everybody that teaches has nearly your commitment. We ought to dump the unions which are counterproductive to public employment and the quality of teaching and try to reestablish a system whereby quality and effort are rewarded.
Is that the rationale behind demonizing the teaching profession? Why not reform a system whereby lousy teachers can be weeded out? Why is it so valuable to people to impose punitive measures on deserving people in an effort to collect a few bad apples? Maryland is ranked first in the country for public education! Two schools were reported just yesterday as being among the best in the NATION! These symbols of accomplishment are not attained by having the majority, or even a plurality, of less than spectacular educators! If the end game is simply to get rid of bad teachers – bad tactics. Personally, I believe very strongly it has more to do with the political aspirations of a few people…
Who is demonizing? Taking the time to read the contract makes it a bit easier to separate fact from fiction. Teachers are still griping about paying into their insurance plans…look it up 90% of their health insurance costs are covered by the taxpayers, most of whom come out of a private sector experience where we’re paying half. If teachers want to be taken seriously they need to at least start at some honest point and take the argument from there – to do otherwise makes them a whole lot easier to demonize.
Some teachers are griping about benefits issues… not me as mine have not changed. These arguments here are about step increases. Back to the honesty argument… Okay, here you go – sticking to your guns that Harford County’s finances are circling the drain? Still avoiding the reality that the county ran a $32 million surplus last year?
You are correct at the end of the day. There is plenty of dishonesty in this story. Look to your County Executive and Council who have amassed nearly $100 million of surplus money the past several years and then say they can’t fund a step increase. Lies are being told. You are right.
Seems to me we have more than one dishonest partner in this mess; agreed.
Hey Moneytree,
“Teachers are still griping about paying into their insurance plans…look it up 90% of their health insurance costs are covered by the taxpayers, most of whom come out of a private sector experience where we’re paying half. If teachers want to be taken seriously they need to at least start at some honest point and take the argument from there – to do otherwise makes them a whole lot easier to demonize.” – You need to be a bit more honest yourself.
According to a Kaiser Family Foundation survey, “Employer Health Benefits 2000,” small employers (3 to 199 employees) typically pay 86 percent of premiums for single-employee coverage, and 66 percent of premiums for family coverage. Midsize firms (200 to 999 employees) pay 88 percent of single-employee premiums and 82 percent of family premiums, and large firms (1,000 to 4,999 workers) pay 89 percent of single employee premiums and 77 percent of family premiums.
Should everyone now demonize you for being dishonest?
Anyways, have a nice day.
http://kaaltv.com/article/stories/S2622977.shtml?cat=10728
This is a 2012 study…thinking your reference to 2000 must mean just that. You are aware that employers have been reducing the percentage of premium they cover for a number of years. 90% coverage is generous; far more generous that most employers can afford. You ought to thank your lucky stars.
Quote:
“A new national study by Milliman, an actuarial and consulting firm, shows a family of four now pays, on average, $20,000 a year in health care costs. It is about half that amount if you have an employer sharing the costs.”
Hey Money Tree,
“This is a 2012 study…thinking your reference to 2000 must mean just that. You are aware that employers have been reducing the percentage of premium they cover for a number of years. 90% coverage is generous; far more generous that most employers can afford. You ought to thank your lucky stars.” – You are right, I cited a 2000 stat, however, here are some more current stats:
From HR BLR dot com – Employers in the private sector pay 81 percent of the cost of premiums for single coverage and 71 percent of the cost for family coverage for workers participating in employer-sponsored health plans, according to a survey conducted by the Department of Labor’s Bureau of Labor Statistics in March 2008.
According to Kaiser Health News – In 2010, “The share of the premium paid by workers jumped 3 percentage points to 30 percent”
From the New York Time 2011 – when discussing health care premiums, “your employer pays a fairly typical 75 percent”
General Electric – 2011 – “Hourly employees pay 24.5 percent of the premium, on average, while salaried employees pay an average of 35 percent”
Kaiser Family Foundation, 2011 – In 2011, for individual, for a small firm (under 200 employees) the average premium was $5328, and the average worker contribution was $762. For large firm the average premium was $5477 and the average employee contribution was $996. (This is far less than 50%) – For the family plan, small firm, the average premium is $14098 and the average employee contribution is $4946; for large firm, average premium is $15520 and the average employee contribution is $3755. (Again, well under your 50% figure that you stated)
So, again, I ask. Should you now be demonized?
Anyways, have a nice day.
Even using your number of 30% – private sector contribution illustrates you teachers have a pretty sweet deal. 10% vs. 30% is a very steep difference. With a 15K premium the private sector guy pays 3K more than the teacher given your own statistic.
Hey Empty Wallet,
“Even using your number of 30% – private sector contribution illustrates you teachers have a pretty sweet deal. 10% vs. 30% is a very steep difference. With a 15K premium the private sector guy pays 3K more than the teacher given your own statistic.” – All that is nice. However, the purpose of my post was solely to show the truth, not the lies posted by other posters.
Now, if you want to discuss the difference between the teachers and the others using real numbers, please remember to inclue the average pay a similarly educated individual in the real world would receive as opposed to the amount of pay a teacher receives; as well as the working conditions and fringe benefits, etc. When you add it all together, who really has the better deal? I work in the “real world”. I know where I work, when it comes to pay, benefits, working conditions, etc, we have it much better off than any teacher; as do most professionals I know that work in the “real world”.
Anyways, have a nice day.
Demonizing? Have your child ever had one of these useless drones? That is the first and most important reason – the negative impact they have. Second – it is OUR TAX dollars funding this boondoggle!! So you don’t like that? Then stop taking our tax dollars and give us vouchers – that too would reshuffle the deck. We fund public education and we are beholden to the system a system that has evolved into just another government bureacracy and no longer serves those who pay for it.
So by your definition, a great teacher is only one who puts in “extra time”? Can someone be a great teacher if they only put in the time required by their contract?
Amazing how “work to contract” is actually a threat, and only doing what teachers are contractually obligated to do is a means of crippling the system. In what other profession is it automatically assumed that people will work many hours beyond what they are being paid for?
Hey All,
My viewpoint on all this is rater simple. If you sign a contract, you abide by it. If the teachers don’t like their contract, they don’t sign it. If the BoE or Harford County doesn’t like the contract with the teachers and their union, don’t sign it. However, if you sign it, honor the damn thing.
In the private sector, if you sign a contract, you best honor it or your butt will find yourself at the wrong end of a lawsuit, one in which you will lose.
In your personal life’s dealings, if you sign a contract and you fail to abide by it, you will get sued.
It is not a difficult concept. You signed the paper, live up to your end of the bargain.
In the real world, if you and I sign a contract that states you do X work and I give you Z pay, and you do the work, there is no doubt I owe you the pay. If our agreement says you do the work this week for X and next week for Y, and you do the work this week and next week, I owe you X and Y. If I don’t pay you, I get my butt sued.
I don’t care what side of the political spectrum you are on; liberal/conservative, democrat/republican, if you sign a contract, honor it.
Anyways, have a nice day.
The union obviously didn’t read what they signed. The signed teacher contract is subject to funding by the county, it even says it in the contract. Both the union and the board agreed that it was subject to funding. If funding isn’t provided then you don’t get it.
Except that when the county claims there is no money to fund the schools requested budget (which includes the teachers negotiated salaries) then X number of months later they have a 5 or 7 or 13 million dollar surplus, that’s called “bad faith negotiating”, and is exactly how we ended up here.
So what I am really hearing from most on this blog is that they have little or no understanding of the finanicial relationship (found in the law) between the county, state and local school board.
I read the labor ruling and it never says there is money to divide up, that is what the union would like you to believe.In fact, take the time to read the law yourself and you will find at the end of the union rainbow the county government holds the key to the pot of gold.
Any truth to all HCPS teachers calling in sick on May 31st?
We can’t do that .
Why can’t you folks? If you have the sick time, why couldn’t you folks send a message?
There’s a BIG difference between can’t and won’t. You can…you just won’t.
I like this line the most: “…an independent financial analyst working for the union…”
And “independent” analyst who is working FOR anyone is not really an “independent” anything. They’re about as unbiased and neutral as two lawyers on opposite sides of the aisle would be.
To all of you who are quoting the “subject to funding by the county” statement in the Negotiated Agreement:
Since you support the county not paying the raises they negotiated with teachers because of this statement, you would therefore completely support teachers doing ONLY what they are mandated to do by the same contract, right?
In other words, teachers should only work 37 1/2 hours per week for 190 days (per contract), and should make sure they only assign work to students that can be accomplished within that time frame. You would also have no objection to them using all their sick and personal time granted by the contract.
Teachers would not be expected to run evening events such as concerts, art shows, drama productions, destination imagination, math counts, etc. They are also under no contractual obligation to write college recommendations for students or to provide after school tutoring of any kind. They will no longer sponsor field trips during the school day.
No school dances because they need teachers to chaperone (including the prom), no athletic events (they need teachers to chaperone), no athletic teams unless they are coached by people other than teachers. No high school yearbook. No school newspaper. No marching bands at the local parades.
Remember, if you want everything to be run “by the book” when it comes to paying for the service, then you have no reason to expect the workers to do any more than what is stipulated by the service contract.
Sadly, you are right. No one will notice the things teachers do outside of the school day until they stop doing them. Then, people will notice. I may be jaded though. I feel that in this county, parents wouldn’t really care if you didn’t offer after school help. Now cancel a football game or a dance, then the crap will hit the fan!
The coach is paid an additional stipend. We went over this earlier. It’s dishonest and counterproductive to lie about all these activities being on strictly volunteer basis. The football coach gets an additional 3200K, drama get’s you 2200K – there’s a whole list of extra payments to teachers for extracurricular involvement. It’s written in the contract and easy enough for anybody to look up on the web. Not saying there might not be other activities that are voluntary – those that you involve yourself in solely because you care, but don’t lie in an attempt to bolster your argument, because it impeaches everything else you claim.
Hey Moneytree,
“The coach is paid an additional stipend. We went over this earlier.” – Yes, they do.
“It’s dishonest and counterproductive to lie about all these activities being on strictly volunteer basis.” – Actually, they are all voluntary. Being paid to do these activities does not mean they are not voulntary.
“The football coach gets an additional 3200K, drama get’s you 2200K – there’s a whole list of extra payments to teachers for extracurricular involvement. It’s written in the contract and easy enough for anybody to look up on the web.” – Yep, paid, but still voluntary.
“Not saying there might not be other activities that are voluntary – those that you involve yourself in solely because you care, but don’t lie in an attempt to bolster your argument, because it impeaches everything else you claim.” – They never lied by saying they were voluntary. All those activities are, including coaching. They may get paid for some of the activities, but they are still voluntary. Perhaps you are the one, again, attempting to bolster your claims by making false claims and accusations? Is what you are saying impeaching everything you claim? Should you again be demonized?
Anyways, have a nice day.
@moneytree
First, coaching and other positions are voluntary. Whether a teacher gets an additional stipend does not change the fact that they are not required to take on these additional responsibilities, and if they do not take them many of these activities would cease to exist.
Second, $3200 to be a full-time football coach? Are you serious? Several weeks of summer camps, all the after school practices, every Friday night game during September, October, and into November? What does that come to an hour, about two dollars? And you are going to use this point to support your argument that teachers are NOT underpaid???
Okay, there`are paid volunteers and unpaid volunteers. And I guess teachers voluntarily take on paid volunteer positions. Wow teachers get compensated for voluntarily volunteering for optional assignments.
So don’t volunteer, but at the same time don’t frame the argument to clearly hide the fact that there are payments involved in these activities. I only suggest those interested in the truth read the contract – teacher’s know what they’re entitled to, but the public should be aware; aside from emotional arguments exactly what the benefits are. Nobody would want to go without a raise, but it certainly can’t be construed as hard labor.
Hey Money Tree,
“So don’t volunteer, but at the same time don’t frame the argument to clearly hide the fact that there are payments involved in these activities.” – It didn’t look like it was framed that way. Maybe you were framing it that way just to argue the opposite.
“I only suggest those interested in the truth read the contract – teacher’s know what they’re entitled to, but the public should be aware;” – I agree with this 100%. Read the contract.
“aside from emotional arguments exactly what the benefits are. Nobody would want to go without a raise, but it certainly can’t be construed as hard labor.” I don’t think anyone said it was hard labor. It is a job I wouldn’t want to do, but, I doubt many would want to do what I do either. Every job has its own perks, and every job has its own pains. Just because it isn’t “hard labor” does not mean it is, or isn’t, a difficult job.
Anyways, have a nice day.
Paul – that’s so much hogwash. Of course people join in committees, etc. to bolster thier resumes (with hopes of being recognized in thier annual reviews). Six Sigma has been front and center for years – the entire premise is based around projects (special projects) above and beyond your normal duties to make improvements or save money for the company. Gone are the days of sitting at your desk and not thinking outside the box beyond your specific job description. If you want to move up or make better money you better get involved in the new corporate culture and it does absolutely require work, extra work. My spouse leaves the house at 6 and generally gets home at 7 and is salaried and in management – got there by working hard – volunteering. He’s expected to attend what seems an endless number of meetings, most after 5, some before work and often stays 2nd shift to keep in touch with employees he routinely wouldn’t see and make sure operations are going smoothly. Interestingly and to the point here…he works hard because he wanted to improve himself and make our lives better and in an enviroment without unions that’s possible. I doubt my husband would ever have been as ambitious in a situation where it wouldn’t matter one hoot – that’s the problem with unions; nobody does anything extra because they’ve been disincented to be excellent.
Hey Money Tree,
“Paul – that’s so much hogwash.” – No, it really is not.
“Of course people join in committees, etc. to bolster thier resumes (with hopes of being recognized in thier annual reviews).” – People join committees for a variety of reasons.
“Six Sigma has been front and center for years – the entire premise is based around projects (special projects) above and beyond your normal duties to make improvements or save money for the company.” – The basis for Six Sigma is to improve manufacturing and business processes. The employees working on these projects get paid for the work they do.
“Gone are the days of sitting at your desk and not thinking outside the box beyond your specific job description.” – I agree with that for the most part. Depending, of course, on your role and specific job duties.
“If you want to move up or make better money you better get involved in the new corporate culture and it does absolutely require work, extra work.” – Or, do your job better than everyone else, or get friendly with the boss, self promote, networking, etc.
“My spouse leaves the house at 6 and generally gets home at 7 and is salaried and in management – got there by working hard – volunteering. He’s expected to attend what seems an endless number of meetings, most after 5, some before work and often stays 2nd shift to keep in touch with employees he routinely wouldn’t see and make sure operations are going smoothly.” – So, as he is expected to go to the meetings, it is part of his contract? I attend meetings, it is in my job description to do so. As your husband is in management, he would be expected to have greater responsibility, part of which would be the extra hours and duties.
“Interestingly and to the point here…he works hard because he wanted to improve himself and make our lives better and in an enviroment without unions that’s possible.” – Not true. It would be possible in a union environment.
“I doubt my husband would ever have been as ambitious in a situation where it wouldn’t matter one hoot” – Interesting…
“– that’s the problem with unions; nobody does anything extra because they’ve been disincented to be excellent.” – Again, not (necessarily) true. There are many reasons to be excellent.
Anyways, have a nice day.
I think money tree’s ex. Is a teacher. That would explain the bitterness.
Hey Patrick,
“Okay, there`are paid volunteers and unpaid volunteers. And I guess teachers voluntarily take on paid volunteer positions. Wow teachers get compensated for voluntarily volunteering for optional assignments.” – If I volunteer to do a special assignment at work, I get paid for it; I am sure most do as well. Most people, as you say, get compensated for voluntarily volunteering for optional assignments. Wow indeed. What a crazy world we live in where people who volunteer for extra work, and get the position, get paid for it! Oh the humanity!
Anyways, have a nice day.
No..not really. Most people in the private sector that join committees, etc. do it for free. Normally, being engaged in improvements via committees means it’ll be part of your review for the next year. In the private sector, we do this stuff for free in hopes of furthering our careers, or establishing our reputations. That’s why all the caterwalling over extra time falls on such deaf private sector ears. Seriously want us to feel bad about your job? The 187 day job?
Hey Money Tree,
“No..not really. Most people in the private sector that join committees, etc. do it for free.” – No, not at all. In the private sector, if we volunteer for an asignment, we get paid for it.
“Normally, being engaged in improvements via committees means it’ll be part of your review for the next year.” – In the private sector, it is doubtful it will be held against us if we don’t volunteer for an asignment, and doubtful it wil add anything meaningful to a review.
“In the private sector, we do this stuff for free in hopes of furthering our careers, or establishing our reputations.” – In the private sector, we do this, like we do anything else, for the money.
“That’s why all the caterwalling over extra time falls on such deaf private sector ears.” – In the private sector, if we are asked to stay over, we complain about it, and we get paid for it.
“Seriously want us to feel bad about your job? The 187 day job?” I really hope that isn’t directed to me. I am not a teacher. Never have been, never will be. I have worked for a few private companies in and around Baltimore for 20+ years. In the real world, the private sector, we get paid for whe we work. If we volunteer for a special assignment, it is with pay. For many, those that are hourly employees, it is as time and a half or fouble time pay. For those that are salary, the work would typically be in place of the normal duties. So, I really don’t understand what you are saying. We private sector people get paid for the work we do. If we do extra work, we are compensated for it as well.
Anyways, have a nice day.
Money tree,you are right…people in the private sector who volunteer for committees don’t get paid extra for it. But unless you’ve ever coached on the high school level…especially football…you have no idea what goes into it. I’ve had both experiences…I was a teacher for 9 years who has coached football and now I work in the private sector and have been on many committees. As a football coach, the money I made for the position probably worked out to a little over a dollar an hour. I’m not complaining because coaching is a labor of love. I not only had training camp to run in the summer, but after school practices every school day except game days, the actual games, travelling on weekends to scout other teams and watching game film. As a private sector employee working on a committee, I put in a few extra hours per month on average.
Everyone has beaten into the ground that we have not received a COLA or step increase in four years. What has NOT been brought up is the fact that our paychecks have in fact DECREASED!
Please consider this actual case in point. I am a 24 year employee who has taught in the county for few years, took a break to raise children and returned as a paraeducator. At 19 years of service my steps were frozen but given a longevity pay of approximately $35.00 per pay for sticking it out. Then came the lack of raises;however the increase to deductions credited to insurance, retirement, taxes, union payments have increase. My take home pay is now over $200. less per pay than it was in 2009. That works out to about $400. per month which is not that far from what I get per pay anyway.
This year when you review the material on our health and life insurance you will see in small print that there will be a one percent increase in our payment towards our insurance. Yeah..a smaller paycheck again hitting us in the fall.
I am a widow supporting myself on this miserly pay. If it was not for the generosity of my children I would have to decide each pay whether to buy my maintenance medication or food because after I pay my bills each pay, I have $ 30. left to last me 2 weeks. In 2009, I could live without assistance from my children.
Is this how the Board of Education and Harford County treats a person with a college degree and more who has worked with their children since 1976 in both a volunteer and teaching/assisting role? I actually can not wait to be over 65 because then I will receive an increase in pay with survivors benefits from the Social Security if I am not dead by then.
Extremely frustrated
The written portion of the presentation concluded: “It’s not a lack of funding. It’s a combination of priorities and the unwillingness to take the necessary action to weather the economic storm. Contact the County Council to demand funding priorities be returned to education.”
Sounds like an impartial, unbiased assessment to me.
we’re not funding increases in education, only an increase in the educator’s salaries.
Lets discuss new revenue ideas? Lets stop complaining and come up with solutions? I have a great one for Harford to make millions?
We need to place police randomly at the Four way stop signs throughout the county and they will make millions. The rolling 2 mph stop has been replaced by the 25 mph stop. Here are a couple of areas to start? Carrs Mill and Grafton Shop is incredible in the mornings. The next areas that are amazing are the four way stop signs between Belair Courts and the Mall. I walk instead of eating lunch and observe this daily! I bet within a 6 month period we could make a small fortune!We could fund raises for all concerned. Make the first offense 100 dollars no points.