From the Harford County Education Association:
On Tuesday, March 13 Harford County Education Association (HCEA) representatives met with representatives from the Harford County Board of Education and the National Math and Science Initiative (NMSI). The meeting was an attempt to negotiate a memorandum of understanding that would enable Harford County to participate in a grant program designed to enhance the Advanced Placement program. HCEA believes that all teachers participating in additional workshops and working additional days beyond the normal work year or work day should be paid according to the negotiated agreement between the Board of Education and HCEA. All other funds provided in the grant should be placed in a fund to be used by the teachers to improve theq uality of student instruction.
Unfortunately the NMSI group is not budging from their position that teachers be paid, in part, based upon student performance. This is a clear violation of our negotiated agreement with the Board of Education. We are hopeful that NMSI will reconsider their position to allow the students to benefit from this program and honor the negotiated agreement between the Board and HCEA. Randy Cerveny, President of HCEA said, “It appears that NMSI is more interested in implementing a merit pay program than providing training and support to Advanced Placement teachers.” Cerveny continued, “Students’ achievement is a result of effective teaching, not pay for performance.”
Extra motivation certainly couldn’t help
The problem is that HCPS is pushing students that are not academically ready, lack the internal motivation, or both, to take AP courses. Many students take AP courses and then do not take the exam because they know they have not done the work necessary to achieve a passing score. Hard to hold the teacher accountable for things they have no control over.
I have to agree about this comment indicating that some schools are pushing AP classes on students for the simple act of boosting numbers with little regard to the students being ready for or having the ability to perform at the lever required of an AP class. (Example: students are provided with a bunch of potential classes to take let’s say 6. 5 AP classes and a single other class as an elective. How is this a fair selection?). I have heard of numerous instances where a teachers opinion concerning a student being registered for an AP class being soundly ignored while the administration rubber-stamps the appeal letting the student take the class. I also believe the administration of the schools also needs to be held accountable. (Would performance pay be only for teachers or would admins also have to have their feet held to the fire?)
Classic union stance. This is why unions are loosing their bargaining rights in Wisconsin and many other states. HCEA and Randy don’t care about student acheivement.
A rather broad statement. HCEA is made up of teachers so conversely member teachers do not care about student achievement?
Come on people we all know that each teacher is equally as effective as the next. Of course they should all get paid the same. Just because some teachers get better results does not mean they should be paid more, you never see that happen in the real world.
The union leadership has done a great job of making sure ALL get because ALL work the same. Just go ask any teacher and they will tell you how each co worker is equal in ability and production.
Do you think that police should get paid differently based on productivity – more arrests equals more money? Should doctors be paid less if they have more patients die – I wouldn’t want to be a cancer doctor? How about firemen – fewer fires reported from your station house and you get bonus pay. Work in a school where the vast majority of students come from a supportive two parent family with the financial resources to provide the extras, already have an appreciation for learning, are emotionally and behaviorally ready for school – earn top dollar. Then pay lesser salaries to those that work in schools where children have little or none of these benefits and have other significant issues outside of the classroom that their teacher has no control over. How do you legitimately quantify productivity under these circumstances. I can tell you that there are many “productive” teachers in our “better” schools that would not be so “productive” or even survive in our more challenging schools. The productivity you describe is not so easily measured when dealing with human beings, especially children and adolescents.
YES!
Do you think a detective who solves murders gets paid the same as a patrol officer? NOPE
I can assure you doctors who treat cancer patients get paid more than your general family doctor.
I have been a teacher in Baltimore City for 16 years, so spare me the talk about the families and all. I see teachers every day who get a ton done and teachers every day who get nothing done, yet the pay is the same. Honestly I am tired of it.
Measuring it is hard sure, but living it every day is a pain to.
Sorry to make you look foolish but you brought it on yourself.
So why in the world would anyone take a route 40 job with significantly more single parent households and low-socioeconomic students coming to school with education last on their minds as far as importance?
Oh I know, so my kids can fail MSA because their parents let them miss 30 days of school, or they move from town to town when they can’t pay rent, so the children have ridiculous gaps in their knowledge.
So when they show up in my room 2 weeks before MSA, my mortgage and 15 year old car needing repairs shouldn’t get paid because I didn’t do a good job with them in the 6 out 10 days they bothered to show up while in my district.
Whatever.
I hope you are not teaching at my son’s Rte. 40 school. Oh, and he is not from a single family, lower income home and is always eager to learn. Get so sick of the stereotyping. Let’s talk about the more affluent schools with nicer clothes, two parent homes and heroin problems.
UGH, I agree with you. But have you visited your child’s school during American Education Week? The teachers in the rt 40 building never relax, they are constantly working so much harder to keep their students engaged, and help students with tougher backgrounds catch up to those students from schools with tons of money coming in from the PTA. Our PTA is basically non existant here. The PTA at a bel air school recently bought all the teachers new furniture, and gave them gift cards to Bonefish. The old furniture got shipped to Edgewood. There’s a strong community down this way, but there is zero funding for any type of additional outside-the-curriculum learning that other schools take advantage of. Students like your child are the reason I get up in the morning, and after student-teaching at a off-route 40 school, I can tell you that there are more students like your child in that setting. I’m not saying your child can’t succeed at a route 40 school, because if anything, they’ll stand out and truly get the attention they deserve from teachers who will bust their butt to ensure he/she gets everything they need. I’m saying the teachers at this school work SO MUCH HARDER then the fallston/bel air teachers out there who can plan an easy/boring lesson but it still works 15 years later because the students are complacent, and they know their parents will whoop em if they don’t get solid grades. I’m lucky if the parents at my school have a working phone number, and I’m even luckier if they give a $@*% when I tell them their child isn’t completing assignments, or has poor behavior in my classroom.
I’m simply trying to point out that the teachers at your child’s school work twice as hard as the teachers on the west side of the county. There’s a reason all the transfer requests point that direction. Is it fair? No. It’s not. The route 40 schools then have to fill these transferred teachers with ones fresh out of college.
The answer is stop treating all these schools the same. Teachers down here are already at a disadvantage from a student/community persprective, so paying on performance actually PENALIZES them for taking a tougher job. If anything, it should work in reverse. Start paying teachers of these struggling schools more money, and watch those excellent teachers who just took 10 years off to go teach at C. Milton start trying to return to the corridor. If you’re so great at teaching you BA, FAL, NH, CMW, PM teachers, come prove it. You’re fortunate to be where you are, you know we work twice as hard as you and I’d love to see you in my department and learn from someone who constantly gets students to test proficiently on High Stakes Assessments.
I am not the one looking foolish and your snide remarks do nothing to boost your credibility. I know people who work in the homicide unit of the Baltimore City Police Department. The FACTS are that homicide detectives make the same as every other officer if they are of the same rank (detective is title not a rank or promotion) with same number of years of service. The difference is that homicide detectives work a great deal of overtime working on cases. You missed the point regarding doctors. If you measured productivity based on mortality rates of high risk specialties within the medical field cancer doctors would get paid less than general practitioners. All I am saying is that productivity as measured in the “real world” usually has more to do with dollars and cents and is not easily transferred to the field of education where the variables are frequently beyond the control of teachers. It seems you have a problem with some of your coworkers. Maybe you should address your concerns for their lack of effort (your perception) with them. Better yet, if you feel that strongly about it and want to further press the case for performance pay, which sounds like what you believe, then go before the school board and voice your opinion. In doing so make sure you identify those teachers you categorize as slackers and should therefore make less than you. Considering that teachers in Baltimore City have negotiated a performance based compensation package you should in short order be making for then your lazy counterparts, which I believe will help to alleviate your frustration.
Brian you seem to be making the HCEA point with the cancer analogy.
for a self-proclaimed “reality check”, someone sure is burning an awful lot of strawmen. comparing teacher pay scales to those of police and fire fighters and doctors? come on, man. don’t insult our intelligence.
you should google misfit politics and read some of the ideas on education reform over there. mostly written by a former teacher in a “troubled” district.
Pay scales (and benefit packages) for police, fire fighter and teachers are comparable, but you do not need a Bachelors degree or need to obtain a Masters degree just to keep your job. No such degree requirement or other certifications are needed for promotion within the PD or FD.
Perhaps a clarification of the facts needs to occur here. The proposal is to not ever pay teachers less but rather provide an incentive to them to get students to achieve in the AP exams. Those AP exams have significant data attached to them showing that students who take an AP course and take the test are more likely to succeed in post secondary education. Every teacher wants to push students who are ready to post secondary education. HCEA is releasing select details that promote their agenda and ideals. The facts are this if the grant were accepted as initially proposed by NMSI:
1. Teachers would recieve professional development for 1 week
2. Teachers are required to do 4 Saturday sessions with students and planned lessons and activities.
3. Teachers are required to provide a predetermined amount of time after school hours (M-F) to additional instruction to students taking the AP course.
For those hours each teacher would be compensated $500.00. That is an hourly rate of about $10.00 or less.
In addition the AP teachers would recieve $100.00 for each student who scores a 3, 4, or 5 on the exam.
Additionally, students would only have to pay 1/2 proce for every exam they take and if they score a 3, 4, or 5 they also recieve $100.00.
HCEA wanted NMSI to agree to pay teachers at the negotiated rate for their professional time and remove the test score incentive from the equation all together. NMSI declined…afterall its their money and I am sure there are many schools in the US that would be more than happy to take the money.
HCEA has already essentially conceeded on the performance pay with Race to the Top and other programs already in the state. What HCEA is fighting is that some people have the ability to earh more money for working additional time and that rate will be based upon the amount of qualifying scores and not the negotiated agreement.
Truth be told HCEA has been ignored on negotiating salaries for teachers and then listened to and followed when it came to someone trying to give money that they had no hand in. (County Executive Craig’s Bonus)
Bottom line is that HdG and Aberdeen High Schools could greatly benefit from this money and this opportunity has the possibility of increasing the quality of education across the board at these two schools. HCEA is walking a fine line between getting this grant under some conditions (regardless of what they may be) and losing it completely. Why are we looking a gift horse in the mouth? These teacehrs involved in these classes are going to be working a significant number of hours beyond contracted time and deserve to be compensated for it.
HCEA is pushing their own agenda into this matter instead of remaining focused on the bottom line that students can benefit from this and will.
The question is what are your teachers worth? Ten dollars an hour is unskilled laborers wages. To accept this kind of pay scale will start a downward spiral of fair compensation for all teachers. If you continue to undervalue teachers then that is what you will get entering the profession – low quality applicants.
I agree but they are also offering $100 for every student who scores a 3, 4, or 5 on the test. Sure teachers cannot control many aspects of testing but the incentive has been placed in front of them to teach the best they can each and every day. Thats not to say that all teachers dont teach their very best but it does help on those days when your just off. I wish my wife was going to get paid what she is really worth on an hourly basis, but that has already been shot down and the prescedent has been established that the county will not kick in the money to make that happen if NMSI wont. Although those teachers would be accepting $10 an hour or less, that is offset by the $100 per 3, 4, or 5 score and by a lot.
I was under the impression that AP classes were meant to have students work towards a higher level of thinking and processing….$100/test score incentive. What a great way to encourage those teachers to teach to the test, not the process of higher learning.
Your comments are patently false. No union in MD has agreed to pay for performance. Race to the Top ties evaluations to performance, not pay.
I won’t type the entire section but here is the relevant part. “Maryland School Law, Employee Relations and Rights 6:33, Do and Maryland school systems provide for performance-based pay increases rather than for increases based upon steps, ranges, and lanes? Yes, The Baltimore City Public Schools became the first school system in the country to negotiate a mandatory performance-based pay plan whereby all teachers and other employees are initially placed on the Standard, Professional or Model Pathway and are able to increase earnings by making interval movement based upon the accumulation of performance based achievement units.”
And this system is currently a disaster with many teachers stuck at lower paying levels because the city cannot afford the contract they agreed to. Performance pay only works when you have the money to pay for it. If you don’t, it leads to a large amount of teacher stuck on a level they don’t belong in. Several teachers don’t get their achievement units approved and are getting the run around from administration because their is simply not enough money to pay for all the teachers that will work and qualify to obtain the high pathways.
I’d rather was dishes for 10.00 an hour… That is barely more than minimum wage and insulting
Some of you have asked the question, in one form or another, “what are teachers worth?” Well, they are worth their Christmas bonus which they actually may have received by now, or at least half of it. No thanks to the HCEA. Are some teachers better than other teachers? Certainly. If some are better than others then why do we pay them all the same? Actually, there is no good reason to pay them all the same unless you accept the silly HCEA argument that seeks to protect the poorly performing teachers at the expense of those who perform well. Even the teachers know what a stupid position that is.