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Burbey: Dispelling the Myths of Teaching in Harford County

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From Ryan Burbey:

In recent years, many falsehoods about teaching in Harford County have been circulating. Many of these myths are derogatory and defamatory to those of us who have diligently dedicated our lives to education. I hope this article will dispel and correct some of these inaccuracies.

Myth #1: Teachers work 7.5 hours per day and have summers off.

While, I am sure there is a slim minority of teachers who can do this, most Harford County teachers work vastly more than this. I personally work through my 25 minutes lunch everyday. That takes me to about eight hours a day. I also spend at least 1.5-2 hours each day outside of school grading or preparing for the day by reading the literature I must teach or planning. Similarly, I don’t know anyone being paid on steps 1-6, who can afford to have summers off. At step six, really careful, conservative teachers, who save all their extra money and don’t have student loans, might be able to stay home.

We are contracted to work 7.5 hrs each day, 190 days each year. However, virtually every teacher in this county comes in days before they are required to start the year and stays days beyond the end; to clean-up, plan, get organized, as well as, decorate their room. Every teacher is required to get a Masters degree during their “off time”. About 2/3’s of this tuition is paid by the school system but the remaining third is paid from teachers declining salaries. However, our mileage to and from our classes is not paid, even though this is a direct requirement of our employment; nor is the cost of our books or materials. Likewise, we are not paid to attend in the summer or to work after hours.

Myth #2: Teachers in Harford County are overpaid.

Quite simply, teachers in Harford County are among “the lowest paid teachers in the state”.
http://www.wbaltv.com/education/30135440/detail.html

Go ahead and check the salary scale. It is in our negotiated agreement which is published on the HCPS website. http://www.hcps.org/BOE/docs/CollectiveBargaining/HCEA/HCEA_NegotiatedAgreement.pdf

However, you must adjust down three steps. The salary scale, which is currently advertised, is patently false and does not represent current wages in Harford County. Currently, teachers’ wages in Harford County are not comparable to our immediate neighbors in Cecil and Baltimore counties. In both those counties, teachers enjoy higher wages.

Myth #3: Teachers have “Cadillac” benefits, which are paid for by taxpayers.

It is true that teachers have fairly good health insurance. However, this is a benefit, which our local union, HCEA, and our state union, MSEA, have fought relentlessly to preserve. Virtually every year, The Harford County Board of Education proposes or unilaterally attempts to implement cuts to our healthcare. Currently, teachers’ benefits in Harford County are not comparable to our immediate neighbors Cecil and Baltimore counties. In both those counties, teachers enjoy better benefits.

When considering healthcare, it is also important to remember that HCPS is self-insured and self-funded. Don’t know what that means? Neither did I. So, I looked it up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-funded_health_care

The nuts and bolts of this are as follows. An insurance company helps the school system design benefits and set rates. The school system contributes their share and collects premiums from its employees. The school system then pays the cost of employee claims from this fund. The school system also purchases a stop loss plan in case the claimed benefits are more than the collected funds. However, to my knowledge, this has never happened in Harford County. In most systems, the employees are refunded via “premium holidays” for overages in collected premiums. This has not happened in Harford County for many years.

Myth #4: You can’t fire teachers when they don’t do their job.

This is probably the biggest lie about education. There is a very clearly defined process for documenting poor performance and dismissing teachers. In most cases, this can be accomplished, by motivated administrators, within 2 years. The process, like most large employers, provides an opportunity for structured assistance and improvement. Very few teachers in Harford County ever enter this process. You can view the current evaluation report for HCPS at the following link:
http://www.hcps.org/boe/docs/masterplan/Teacher_and_Principal_Evaluation_Summary_2010-2011.pdf

You will see that only 52 of the over 2,000 teachers were rated unsuccessful. Only 64 more were rated causing concern, which indicates a need for immediate improvement. That amounts to 2.4% of teachers who are unsuccessful and 2.9% who are causing concern and in need of immediate improvement. In total, that means that 5.3% of teachers in Harford County may not currently be successful. If after being given support and opportunities to improve, the employee fails to improve, they are dismissed.

New teachers must demonstrate satisfactory performance for three years before receiving tenure. During this period, they are observed by multiple members of both school-based and central office administration.

In extreme cases of proven neglect, abuse or insubordination, teachers may be dismissed without the opportunity to improve.

Look around your workplace or job-site. Are 5% of your colleagues not performing satisfactorily? Are they immediately terminated? Are they required to complete a structured and highly monitored performance improvement plan?

Myth #5: Teachers’ Unions defend “failing” teachers.

Unions do not defend failing teachers. Unions, HCEA included, defend their contracts. They protect teachers’ rights. They protect the integrity of the educational system and, yes, they defend students’ rights. Unions must defend every teacher’s right to due process before dismissal. Tenure is not designed to protect “failing” teachers. Tenure is designed to protect teachers, like myself, who speak out for the rights of their colleagues and students. Tenure is designed to allow academic freedom and diverse perspectives. Tenure protects fairness and equity.

Myth #6: Teachers want “special treatment” and want to “take money” from other county or school system employees.

This is inflammatory and completely false rhetoric. All HCEA and every other teachers’ union has demanded, is the opportunity to negotiate in accordance with current state and federal laws. HCEA and other unions just want their partners in management to negotiate in good faith with proposals based in honesty and real facts, not massaged statistics and specious budgetary numbers. Similarly, teachers want every employee to enjoy the same benefits as they do. We want all employees either public or private to have access to affordable healthcare. We want all employees to be protected, by a system of due process from employers taking capricious actions. We want all employees to have a safe and healthy workplace. We want all employees to receive fair compensation for their labors, which accounts for their experience and education. Teachers’ unions have fought and will continue to fight for these principals for all workers. Teachers‘ unions fight to ensure both the letter and spirit of the law is followed. Case in point is the refusal by HCEA to accept an illegal and ill-conceived “one time” bonus.

Myth #7: Teachers are “lucky to have a job”.

While I and every other teacher, not just in Harford County, but in the nation is disturbed and saddened by the suffering caused by the recent economic situation, we are not lucky. Luck implies chance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luck

No teacher has arrived at his or her profession via luck. Every teacher must complete a rigorous undergraduate program to fulfill certification requirements.
http://www.msde.maryland.gov/MSDE/divisions/certification/certification_branch/

Every teacher must also complete a graduate program, which results in a Masters degree within ten years. This is not luck. This is not chance. It is careful and deliberate preparation.

Teachers sacrifice the opportunity for higher wages and greater financial success afforded in the private sector for a stable wage, which increases annually & benefits, which ensure health and economic security. While we are sometimes insulated from the volatility of the private sector, we also are excluded from “windfalls” of booming economies. We dedicate ourselves to work above and beyond expectations and dutifully serve the children of our community. In return, we expect our contract to be honored. We don’t expect to be demonized, defamed or used as pawns in political manipulations. Likewise, we don’t expect our contractually guaranteed wages to be used to fill budgetary shortfalls created by County level leadership with extremely misplaced priorities.

I, personally, made a very carefully thoughtful decision to become a teacher. I was working as a furniture mover, despite having BA in English. My fiancée was pregnant. It was apparent that I could not be home enough to be as involved in my family as I wanted. It was also clear that I could not count on a stable income to provide for my family. I sought out a career, which would provide that time and stability to my family. After choosing teaching, I committed myself to improving my practice and providing the best instruction I could to my students. I completed a Masters degree program. I pursued a PhD. In addition, I have attended multiple conferences at my own expense.

Myth #8: Teachers haven’t “suffered” like other county employees.

This is an outright lie that denigrates the sacrifices, which teachers have endured during this economic downturn. Teachers on the Bachelors degree salary scale have lost over $1,200 per year in contractually agreed upon salary steps. That is about 3% of their salary every year. It totals over $7,000 in three years of the salary freeze. Teachers on the Masters level salary scale have lost over $1,300 per year. That is over 3% of their salary every year. It totals about $8,000 in three years of the salary freeze. Teachers on the Masters+30 salary scale, like myself, have lost over $2,000 per year. That is over 3% of their salary every year. It totals about $12,000 in three years of the salary freeze. The only teachers who did not suffer yearly losses are those who are at the top of the salary scale with 15 or more years of experience, but they have not receive contractually guaranteed longevity increases either.

Every teacher, regardless of their experience or “step” is currently paid 2% less due to changes in the pension contributions. This 2% “teacher tax”, unlike our other pension contributions, does not go to the pension fund. It is going directly into the MD general fund. This means that every teacher is currently suffering between a 2%-5% pay cut. If you question my numbers, go ahead and check the salary scale. It is in our negotiated agreement, which is published on the HCPS website. Remember, we are three steps behind so a fourth year teacher is making the same as a first year teacer. An eleventh year teacher, like myself, is making eighth year pay.
http://www.hcps.org/BOE/docs/CollectiveBargaining/HCEA/HCEA_NegotiatedAgreement.pdf

Did required graduate tuition for teachers go down? No, it went up. Did healthcare cost go down? No, it went up at a rate almost double that of the private sector. We have been required to work the same 190 days for less compensation.

Other county employees have also endured unwarranted salary, wage freezes, and wage cuts via furloughs. Teachers weren’t furloughed but when teachers are “furloughed”, we still must go to work. We just don’t get paid. We all, teacher, county worker, HCPS employee, and those in the private sector, have lost way too much money.

This has been a tough time for everyone. I do not intend to minimize the suffering of any businessmen, contractors, workers, county employees or those in the private sector. Other county employees have also endured unwarranted salary and wage freezes, as well as, salary and wage cuts via furloughs. However, folks should understand that we, teachers are suffering too. Likewise, no county employee or teacher should continue to suffer when county revenue has virtually returned to pre-recession levels (617million pre-recession vs. 607 million currently). We also should not be pitted against each other by manipulative politicians, with self-serving agendas, or tricked into taking “one-time” bonuses rather than contractually agreed upon salaries. Similarly, we should not be demonized by a county executive who claims, he “Commits to education.“ and “Understands the connection between education and individual success, and he strives to build a strong educational system for Harford County’s children.”

Comments

        • Ryan,

          My wife and I both want to thank you for a well thought article. Both her and I work in the school system and have struggled over the past few years due to lack of steps in pay as well as her having to continue to take required classes that is paid for out of our own pockets. Even after partial reimbursement, it is still food, gas and bills out of our pockets just so that she can continue to have a job. Although she does not mind the additional courses, she also received her masters and only got a 50 cent raise. That is $0.50 per hour after receiving her masters! She is in her 9th year of teaching and I’ve met parents of students that had nothing but praise for her and loved her as a teacher.

          The people on here that do not work for the Board of Education can talk about how people do not have to teach at all if they don’t want to and can find other jobs. These are the same people with short-sightness that does not take into account the number of students per classroom that teachers must help, does not take into account the different disabilities that teachers must accomodate for, the cancelling of meetings by parents that say they will attend but cancel at the last minute and the tutoring that the teachers give before and after school WITHOUT PAY! People who teach do it not only because they love teaching, but because they also have a gift to offer to children.

          The fact that you have a number of readers clicking the “dislike” button when you say to come visit the County Executive’s Budget Meetings shows how closed minded they are. People who protest without offering an alternative are mainly part of the problem and refuse to come up with ideas on how to solve problems. These are also the same people that do not research the issues faced by the school system and only listen to sound bites.

          Stephen Puopolo

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          • Thank you Stephen. We need you and you wife to help n this struggle. Contact the HCEA office or myself to ask how you can help.

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  2. The fact that The Dagger even needs to post an article about this really makes me sad. It just goes to show that some of the public clearly views teachers as people without “real jobs.”

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  3. I had no idea it was so terrible being a Harford County teacher.

    Teachers are forced to work a 180 days and they have great pay and benefits. If I were trapped in this dead end job and forced to cry all summer long I’d probably slit my throat.

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  6. Sounds good all typed…I agree and will never say being a teacher is easy but let’s get real. I have lived in Harford County all my life and have raised two children who have gone through the public school’s and believe me they have had some great teachers but what we need to focus on are the teachers who are in it for a secure job and this is due to tenure your telling us that there is a process in place to fire teachers I wonder how many teachers have actually been fired???? The process you speak about states that with “motivated administrators” there is a 2 year process really what other job do you know that it can take up to 2 years to fire an employee I’m sure the “moving company” you speak about wouldn’t take 2 years of jumping through hoops to fire a incompetent employee get real with us if ALL teachers where doing their jobs to the best of their ability then we wouldn’t have title one schools who are failing our children!!! Stop trying to make us feel sorry for Teachers who got into this job to make a difference well how bout making sure that every child receives the best and if some of the teachers you try so hard to protect are not the best they need to go!!! What exactly do you do?? Tenure is everything you say it’s not it does protects those failing teachers!!! I would recommend watching “Waiting for Superman” and next time you try to make your point remember that most of us have had teachers that never should have been a teacher!!!

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    • I agree with you but I think you missed the point of “waiting for Superman” is that Title one schools are failing and it is not strictly because of the teachers. While not all title I schools fail some do because to compensate for many of the unique issues they face you need heavy parental involvement. When that is lacking you could have Superman teaching the classes and still fail. Essentially if you are waiting for a teacher to solve all the problems you are looking for the impossible. Look at what was required to turn Edgewood Middile School around. It was a great amount of effort by the whole community and alot of extra resources. The cost far exceeds the Title I funds our failing Title I schools are getting!

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    • Not all of us are buying into the Waiting For Superman hype. A website with plenty of contradictory studies on the benefits of charter schools: http://www.notwaitingforsuperman.org/Articles/20100920-RSEditorsNotWaiting

      This from an interesting article about the great success of Finnish international test scores, “What Americans Keep Ignoring About Finland’s School Success”
      By Anu Partanen:
      “For starters, Finland has no standardized tests. The only exception is what’s called the National Matriculation Exam, which everyone takes at the end of a voluntary upper-secondary school, roughly the equivalent of American high school.

      Instead, the public school system’s teachers are trained to assess children in classrooms using independent tests they create themselves. All children receive a report card at the end of each semester, but these reports are based on individualized grading by each teacher. Periodically, the Ministry of Education tracks national progress by testing a few sample groups across a range of different schools.

      As for accountability of teachers and administrators, Sahlberg shrugs. “There’s no word for accountability in Finnish,” he later told an audience at the Teachers College of Columbia University. “Accountability is something that is left when responsibility has been subtracted.”

      For Sahlberg what matters is that in Finland all teachers and administrators are given prestige, decent pay, and a lot of responsibility. A master’s degree is required to enter the profession, and teacher training programs are among the most selective professional schools in the country. If a teacher is bad, it is the principal’s responsibility to notice and deal with it.

      And while Americans love to talk about competition, Sahlberg points out that nothing makes Finns more uncomfortable. In his book Sahlberg quotes a line from Finnish writer named Samuli Puronen: “Real winners do not compete.” It’s hard to think of a more un-American idea, but when it comes to education, Finland’s success shows that the Finnish attitude might have merits. There are no lists of best schools or teachers in Finland. The main driver of education policy is not competition between teachers and between schools, but cooperation.

      Finally, in Finland, school choice is noticeably not a priority, nor is engaging the private sector at all. Which brings us back to the silence after Sahlberg’s comment at the Dwight School that schools like Dwight don’t exist in Finland.

      “Here in America,” Sahlberg said at the Teachers College, “parents can choose to take their kids to private schools. It’s the same idea of a marketplace that applies to, say, shops. Schools are a shop and parents can buy what ever they want. In Finland parents can also choose. But the options are all the same.”

      Herein lay the real shocker. As Sahlberg continued, his core message emerged, whether or not anyone in his American audience heard it.

      Decades ago, when the Finnish school system was badly in need of reform, the goal of the program that Finland instituted, resulting in so much success today, was never excellence. It was equity”

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    • Tenured teachers are a protected class. These teachers have little to worry about when it comes to the economy that affects the private sector and whether they will be fired for doing a bad job.

      There seems the be romantic fiction that teachers are these benevolent human beings who are teaching because of a great calling. The fact is that most do it because of the hours and a work/life balance that you can’t easily find in any other sector, not to mention the job security and benefits that far and away are better than most taxpayers.

      What is truly sad is these same teachers are portraying themselves as martyrs for our children and it is a great lie.

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      • I have read many of your comments and I find this one particularly offensive. No profession has 100% of its practitioners who entered for esoteric reasons. I entered teaching almost 30 years ago because I DID want to make a difference. I have children of students now and I am constantly running into ex-students who affirm that I made a difference in their lives. When I went into teaching I took a $50,000 pay cut to do what I loved then and still love today. I will never reach the level of salary and benefits I sacrificed to teach in my career but that was not my goal. The point you so clearly miss is that we are expected not only to teach, but also to become surrogate parents, fix broken homes and be a baby sitter. If you were to calculate what to pay me on just the baby sitter part alone you would realize that teachers, lowest paid by the way in the Baltimore metro area, have always been grossly underpaid. If you used the rate of $5 an hour per child the cost to hire me would be $428,400 in a single year, quite a bit more then my current salary! Of course that is ridiculous but those of us in Harford County Public Schools would like to receive what we have been promised. We do not receive paid holidays, paid vacation or many of the perks that exist in the business world. We are government employees and realize those do not exist in our profession. What we also realize is that with the cost of graduate education averaging $700 a credit and continuing education required for all teachers it is a slap in the face when negotiated salaries, benefits and perks are ignored and promises are not kept employees become bitter. When this economy improves, and it will improve, teachers will run from Harford County in droves to better jobs. You will lose the cream of the young teachers and only the students will suffer. I too went through the public schools and I have had the same sad experiences of bad teachers but you do not solve that problem by constantly attacking those of us who are desparately trying to fix the problem. Before you blast the profession again I suggest you go into the schools and substitute for a few weeks and see what it is you think you know. I guarentee you will have an eye opening experience. Yes you will see the few who are not the best but you will see the many who have only the best in store for our children.

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        • @John you are disingenuous when you say teachers are not paid for time-off. Teachers are paid for time-on the job per the contract. You are asking us to buy-into the lie that time-off is not part of the calculus.

          You say teachers are working hard on solving the problems within teacher ranks and education! Well you haven’t made much headway in the past 40 years and it is unacceptable.

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          • Hey Stillwell,

            “@John you are disingenuous when you say teachers are not paid for time-off. Teachers are paid for time-on the job per the contract. You are asking us to buy-into the lie that time-off is not part of the calculus.” – They are actually not being paid per the contract as they have not received their step increases as per the contract.

            “You say teachers are working hard on solving the problems within teacher ranks and education! Well you haven’t made much headway in the past 40 years and it is unacceptable.” – What do you base this on, Stillwell? Are you a teacher or an administrator? Do you work in the education field? I would like to know the basis for this statement of yours.

            Anyways, have a nice day.

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          • Hey Stillwell,

            “Hey Paul, Why don’t you go ahead and prove me wrong.” – Well, Stillwell, I didn’t make any assertion. I am simply asking you the basis for your claim. If you don’t have a basis, I can understand not wanting to say anything. I however, when I make claims, I am able to provide a basis for it. No need for me to prove you wrong; your inability to provide a basis for your claims speaks volumes in and of itself.

            Anyways, have a nice day.

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        • As a salaried employee, you get paid a set amount of money per year, according to your contract. Salaried employees in any field, including the business world, have the same pay system. You are granted a certain amount of sick and personal days each year, and are given time off on holidays (more holidays than most jobs), as part of your contract. Your pay is not docked when you have off or take a sick day so yes, you are paid for those days. They are built into your salary. You are required to continue your education, and if you receive a decent grade, the district reimburses you for the majority of your education, which is another great benefit of the job. You may or may not have comparable benefits to other districts, but the benefits far exceed what most people get in the private sector. Most in the private sector do not have the advantage of having an automatic step increase and cost of living increase regardless of the economy. In the private sector, raises are tied to performance, and with something as important as the education of our children, the standard should be the same. The current system rewards the teachers who show movies three days a week the same as those who come to school early, stay late, and take work home. Being a teacher is certainly not an easy job, but there are a lot of benefits in it as well. Those who are truly in it for the right reason are more likely to be happy with those benefits.

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          • @Jackie

            Excellent analysis!

            Unfortunately the posters here are mired in prevarication and fantasy. They will attack you with miss-truths, histrionics and hyperbole.

            You have committed the great sin of calling out teachers who profusely profess that they are here for the children. Most people do not want to believe that teachers are a disingenuous group who are part of the problem and keep us from the solutions in education.

            Teachers are corrupt, or in denial or actively advocating against solutions.

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    • The designation of Title I has nothing to do with the quality of teachers. It has to do with the financial situation of the community. Title I is a designation from the FEDS that indicates a level of financial support to help children who live in poverty.

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  8. 7.5 hours a day for 190 days a year oh my that’s way too much work.
    We didn’t get our step increases, wah my father has worked for the same place for over 20 years and had to take pay cuts to keep his job as well as hour cuts.
    Welcome to the real world where everything isn’t perfect, if you don’t like what the county offers find a new job because we can easily replace ya’ll.

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    • @Pissed with the Government:
      I’d love to see you do my job. With this type of winning attitude, I can’t believe you have a job at all! I would like you to work 12 hours a day (but only get paid for 7.5), planning lessons, calling and emailing parents, grading papers, tutoring children (for free!), filling out social security paperwork (probably for people like you), dealing with troubled students and their behaviors, attending meetings, being forced to take graduate courses to maintain your teaching certificate (even though the courses are not always reimbursed 100%), cleaning your classroom, buying your own supplies when needed to create great and engaging lessons, supplying children with supplies because parents like you won’t and don’t, and most of all trying to do this with a smile on your face so you don’t snap on PEOPLE LIKE YOU!!!!!

      Have a nice day, wah!

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      • @TeacherleavingHCPS

        You have to do your job! If you don’t want to do your job then you can leave being a teacher in HCPS, oh that’s what you are trying to convey by your screen name, good and goodbye to you.

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  9. Ya wanna little cheese with that?
    Do you think that many of the jobs people have out in the “real world” don’t have these issues?
    “Most” self funded insurance plans do NOT refund overages. Some may but you have not provided facts. Many people do not even realize that their insurance is self funded. Of the eight companies that I or my wife have worked for that were self funded, none refunded.
    You want to dispell “myths” but only provide generalities and opinions. To dispel a myth you need facts and the only fact present was pay rates.
    BTW, just because one person said it, does not make it a fact or a myth. It is just their opinion, so grow somne skin.

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  11. I am amazed at how many people feel so strongly about the teaching profession to come on a second rate news website (daggermess) to post over and over again. It’s incredible. There must be something lacking in their lives to feel that they need their little voice to be heard so they come online and post. Using comments like “waaaaa”, “Cheese with that”….lol. So sad….

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  12. I am so sick of people talking about how being a teacher is easy, or not challenging. My wife is a teacher on the high school level. She happens to like her job and is very good at it. But before you go on your rant about summers off, do the math. My wife is usually at her desk by 645 am. She generally doesn’t leave until 4 pm. The only reason she leaves is to get our kids from daycare. She would stay later if she could. So right there you are looking at 9 hours and 15 minutes. Yea, she gets a lunch break. 30 minutes. By the time she gets to the lunch room to eat, she is at 20 minutes. But, I’ll use the 30 minutes. So now we are down to 8 hours 45 minutes of work per day. After the kids are in bed, she easily puts in one hour, sometimes longer to ensure the work gets done. So when it’s said and done, she’s putting in about 9.5 hours a day. On the weekend, there is another two hours at least of work. What is the work? Grading papers and preparing fun games for the students to be engaged (remember, she wants the kids to learn). So now we are at 49.5 hours per week. Summers off doesn’t really mean what it used to. Just because the students aren’t there, doesn’t mean the teachers aren’t working. After the last day of school, the teachers have to put in at least another 3-4 days of work to shut down the classroom. And remember the students now come back the week before labor day. To prepare the classroom and get lessons in order, the teachers are there a week early. So the summer is now down to eight weeks. There are days over the summer that teachers have to work. I believer the number is 3-4 days, so we are down to seven weeks. Let’s do the math. A standard work year is 2,080 hours (52 x 40). At 49.5 hours per week for 45 weeks (52-7), you are looking at 2,227.5 hours, which is more than the standard year. My wife is talented and smart. She worked in the corporate world. Had she stayed, she’d probably be making close to double what she makes. Yes, she is working in this tough economy and we are thankful for that, but before anyone gets high and mighty about this work, you need to stop and think about it. In addition to the hours, she is not only a parent, but has to deal with a whole host of emotional issues. She does way more than teach. In addition, she has to deal with an enormous amount of red tape passed down from the BOE. It’s a very stressful job, it’s a tough job. Yes, she gets some time off over the summer and yes, she has good benefits, but given the amount of time and work involved, she is underpaid. Why does she do it? Because she loves it. She likes making a difference. She likes getting through to kids who have had a rough go at it.

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      • Being a teacher is a choice, just like any job. I made the choice to become a teacher when I was 12, and I have never regretted it. With any job, there are benefits as well as pitfalls, and teaching is no different. Being a teacher is not easy, and neither is being a garbage collector, an electrician, a plumber, etc. There are issues in any job that cause stress and difficulty, which is why these things are called “work”. If a person finds more reasons to complain about a job than reasons to be thankful they have the opportunity to do that job, maybe it is time to find a new line of work. While teachers may not get rich on their salary, they certainly make a livable wage and have many other costly benefits that other occupations do not have. Beyond that, the primary concern of a teacher should be improving the education of students. Unfortunately, the discussion rarely focuses on that. Although some have suggested that teacher performance is tied to salary, I don’t believe that is true. If it is true, you are suggesting that Harford teachers who make slightly less than those in neighboring counties, are inferior in quality. You are also suggesting that pay determines performance, so that a teacher who is “underpaid” may not help the student who comes after school asking for additional help in their subject area. I have known great private school teachers who earn next to nothing as well as incompetent and/or uncaring public school teachers who are at the top of the pay scale. I have also known excellent public school teachers who are at the lower end of the pay scale. The bottom line is that as long as a teacher is making a livable wage in addition to having great benefits, if he has his heart in the right place, his biggest priority will be trying to create a better educational environment for his students, not digging his hands as deep as he can into taxpayers’ pockets.

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    • Thanks to her for her dedication. I don’t know why all these haters think education is such a walk in the park. Substitute for a few days and see if you can take it. It might just change your mind.

      Teaching is a thankless job that everyone seems to think they can do better than those who have chosen such a challenging profession. The demands are so much more than they were when I was a student so many yeara ago.

      Compare the compensation to that of our many local federal employees (who spend THEIR 30 minute lunches out at restaurants. I sure wonder how they do that).

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      • @Vinnygret posted “Compare the compensation to that of our many local federal employees (who spend THEIR 30 minute lunches out at restaurants. I sure wonder how they do that).”

        So you are going to use federal employee over-compensation as a reason for teachers to get more taxpayer money? You have got to be kidding?

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  13. I have known and continue to know a great many people in education, so for the most part I totally get what you’re saying. It’s even handed and sensible. You’re striking out at he myths and rhetoric.

    But I do have a problem with the idea tha tonly 5% of teachers are failing teachers. This could be true, but I suspect it is completely misleading. You ask people to look around at their own jobs and see if only 5% of their coworkers are failing– if you asked most companies’ HR depts about their performance evaluations or corrective actions, I bet they could give you very rosy numbers about their personell as well. I think you have to be real and acknowledge the 5% is probably not a true account of the staff.

    Perhaps I’m wrong. Perhaps you can look around at your coworkers and you see 95% of them as successful. If that is the case, I find that to be extraordinary.

    (let’s not even begin a discussion how to define teachers as successful, in a situation where it is impossibly hard to measure outcomes and relate it to performance)

    Otherwise, well said and great job of taking up the cause.

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  14. How and when did we get to this point of us versus them? In my opinion, most, if not all of our educators are professionals who perform their responsibilities satisfactorily. The adversarial position seems to lie in the lap of the union(s). What would happen if the NEA, HCEA, and whatever other organized entities with their hand(s)in the pot were taken out of the equation?

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    • Based on the bad faith finding by The Maryland Labor board and the fact that the BOE broke the law when they unilaterally changed the benefits without negotiations. I would guess they would screw teachers salaries over even more!

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  15. When I was a student, some 25+ years ago, when a teacher or administrator called home because of the misbehavior of a student, the parents were upset with the student. In many cases now when a teacher or administrator called home because of the misbehavior of a student, the parents were upset with the SCHOOL. Parents are much more likely now to believe the lies that their child tells then to believe the teacher. Students are much more likely to be disrespectful, verbally abusive, and insubordinate towards teachers and staff in our current state. Parents are more likely now to blame the school for the problems their child is causing and in some cases supporting their child’s right to cause these problems.

    The prevailing attitude of the general public towards education (and teachers in general) is that teachers are the only reason that students have poor test results (which, by the way, is the only measure that counts). Under no circumstances are the incredibly varied and often inflexible curriculum requirements cited, nor are the students themselves held to accountability for their own actions. Parental involvement is widely known to be a positive influnce on a child’s academic performance, but the decline in parental involvement (and the decline in actual parenting) is rarely if ever discussed. As teachers we are judged in large part by the test scores of moody, immature, unmotivated children. What if a doctor’s performace was determined by the health of someone who refused to follow the doctor’s instructions? Should a policeman be rated unsatisfactory because a criminal refused to follow his direction to stop? Is the car salesman a bad salesman if it’s raining and no one comes to buy a car that day?

    It is this part of the job that none of you outside of the teaching profession can understand. I honestly believe that all those who complain about teaching being an easy job should go be a substitute teacher one day. One cannot adequately judge another without knowing what they do, and most of those who criticize teachers for their easy schedule and easy work day seem to be unwilling to believe us when we say what our jobs truly entail. It is sad, and it is surprising that so many of our young people still want to be teachers. All of them have had someone who inspired them to do this, so there are good teachers. There are many more good teachers than bad teachers, just as there are many more good doctors, bankers, salesmen, cashiers, cooks, construction workers, etc. then there are bad ones.

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    • Concerned Teacher – Very well put! As much effort as teacher put in, it could easily be damaged by a parent who is not truly invested in their child’s education, or have the idea that their child can do no wrong.

      Parents – invest in your kids, trust the teachers. As Concerned Teacher indicated, there are many more good teachers, very good teachers, than bad ones.

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    • You have nailed the core of the problem – society has become too dependent on the government being responsible to fulfill their needs. They do not need to help with education, that is the school’s responsibility.
      Until we, as a society, decide that government is not the answer to every problem and we, as a society, determine self-reliance is of vital importance, we will struggle. Europe is 5 years ahead of the mess we are heading into if we do not change our expectations of government.

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        • Schools need to be run on the local level. A Department in D.C. should not be mandating how to run a school in Aberdeen. We are looking to unaccountable bureaucrats in D.C. for answers to local problems.
          Return government to the people. Let the federal government deal with national issues as it did during the first 175 years of this nation (give or take a few).

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          • I agree then. There are those who use what you said at first as rhetoric for reasons to abolish public schools.

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          • @TAXPAYER – Well stated, and I am with you. The feds and the state are bullying local school systems and the taxpayer is picking up the tab. Teachers seem to be easy scapegoats for both sides. I guess in essence collateral damage. From some comments on here, I guess the days of supporting teachers and your school are lost. I grew up in a conservative farming community and was raised differently. Sad.

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      • TAXPAYER: You stated “…society has become too dependent on the government being responsible to fulfill their needs.” Also you stated “…Until we, as a society, decide that government is not the answer to every problem.”

        These are common misconceptions, or deliberate distortions, of the role of government that have been perpetuated by Republicans. We believe that the government cannot, and should not, be in the business of business. Private enterprise is the keystone of the American way. However, a corporation’s sole motive for existence is profit and should be encouraged in order to increase the economy by which all benefit. That being said, it is all too common for large, impersonal corporations to take short cuts, or even illegal and damaging actions, to increase profits and thereby increase bonuses for CEO’s.

        It is at this point that the government has a role in regulating businesses. They have the responsibility of preserving the common good for the country. They must keep food pure and wholesome, eliminate environmental pollution, ensure that consumer products are safe and the financial institutions do not cheat the public. When left unchecked, corporations have committed all of these crimes in the past. We believe that ONLY the government has the ability to protect us. Individual citizens are not capable of seeking redress from a multi-billion, multi-national corporation.

        What I object to, and decry, is how the Republican/Tea Party manipulates propaganda to entice middleclass voters to support the very things that harm them. They play upon their fears and natural prejudices to lure them to vote against their own best interests. They use generalizations, such as Country, Motherhood, law and order etc, things which all of us support, in order to garner support for their real purpose which is making the wealthy, wealthier. The cure is education. That is why I support it.

        “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” – John Maynard Keynes

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        • Good that you quote Keynes, whose big government economic models have been used as a tool to increase government spending to create jobs. We see how that has been effective in our third year of trillion dollar deficits.
          Yes, there is a purpose of government. My point is that the power that has been appropriated to non-elected officials in DC (and other locations) has greatly inhibited freedoms. Social programs have greatly distorted the natural economic processes and business cycles every healthy economy must endure. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are perfect examples of what happens when GSE’s intefere with market forces.

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  16. The only problem with teaching in Harford County is our Union is a Joke, and the Union President needs to go. Those of you that belong to the union. Think about this, The County makes the decision on pay, the union can suggest. Teachers cannot strike. The union collects you money. The President makes over $100,000 did you really think he was worry about a little bonus.

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  17. Tenured teachers pay should be at least $100,000 per contract year and they should have all their benefits paid as well. This is about the children and we need happy, respected and rewarded teachers to get this job done. We can never invest enough in education.

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      • Teachers are part of the 99% and for far too long they have been lied to and cheated in their work and compensation. Taxpayers should rejoice in fairly compensating teachers as I have proposed.

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    • Even though the sentiment dripped with sarcasm, I agree. In fact, for that money I would be willing to work as a 12-month employee with 2 weeks vacation like any other professional. As a teacher, I also agree that if that were the financial rewards for teaching, you’d see a much more competitive environment, much greater emphasis placed on finding good methods of evaluating a teacher (other than the test scores of students who don’t have anything invested in them), and a better way to remove teachers who are not good at their jobs. I would welcome all that and more. It would also raise the value of teachers in the eyes of society.

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  18. The attacks on teachers in the county as well as across the country are shameful. It’s a virtually thankless job with uninvolved parents who are quick to point the finger at everyone but themselves when their child has a problem in school. Do I love all the teachers my children have had? Of course not. But I am involved, every day, in what my children are learning in school. Encouraging them to do THEIR part in the process is something we stress. They are do excellent students because of it. I wish my parents had taken a more active role.

    If you can read the Dagger, thank a teacher.

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  19. Teachers are people too, parents your kid have a job and that job is to go to school and learn. Don’t blame the teach because you are not doing your job at home. Respect and the will to learn should and must start in the morning be they leave home for school.

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  20. Mr. Burby, previous to your above article, most of what you wrote I felt to be a bunch of union crap. This article was well written and contained facts that I know, as I was a teacher for 32 years. There are still members of the community that don’t buy what you wrote, but I think you did gain support from others. This is far better than whining about how teachers are mistreated. I assume you will play a larger role in the H.C.E. A. and I hope you will offer the public more of this kind of insight. People do respect unbiased information rather than one-sided opinions. Good job.

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    • Thank you. I currently hold many responsibilities in my union. I think folks often mis-interpret what is really going on or being said. If you believe kids should have a quality education, come to the County Executive’s budget meeting and advocate for our schools.

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  21. When these teachers went into their job they knew it didnt pay well. You think it is going to chance now? You went into the job to help kids you didnt go into it for the money. You want to make money as a teacher? Get a job in Delaware. My sister has been a teacher for over 20 years. She has NEVER worked over the summer. NEVER!!!! You benefits are EXCELLENT!!!!

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  22. The teachers AND substitute teachers aren’t the problem. The unions who forcibly take money from hardworking professionals and the parents who don’t give a damn about their offspring are at the root of the issue(s). Out of curiosity, how did the TEA Party, as mentioned in an earlier rant, become the scapegoat for yet another nonrelated topic?

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          • Proud more psycho talk by a liberal/progressive trying to demonize people. You know darn well that “Take Our Country Back” has nothing to do with race at all.

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          • The site keeps censoring my answers “Your comment is awaiting moderation” Until Dagger lives up to our 1st amendment rights, I’ll keep my thoughts to myself.

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          • Proud – The Dagger site is private and 1st Amendment Rights don’t apply. The Dagger can moderate any way it sees fit. The Dagger has filters set for words that hold a comment in moderation until approved for posting.

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          • The Dagger is a tool for the 1%. It promotes a sanitized neo-con Tea Party message. But in spite of it liberals are winning the war.

            We are the 99% and we will achieve a classless society with equality of outcome and social justice for all!

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          • Plutarchy

            Plu”tar*chy\, n. [Gr. ? wealth + -archy.] Plutocracy; the rule of wealth. [R.]
            Webster’s Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.
            Cite This Source

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  23. I retired after teaching over 30 years in Harford County schools. I loved my job, my students, enjoyed most of the parents and worked with mostly competent administrators. I knew when I took the job that I was not going to get rich. Over the years I received raises some years and some not. I missed out on a few step increases along the way when funds were not available. My husband is also a retired teacher. We bought and paid for a house, educated our children, paid for weddings and managed to save some money for retirement. I belonged to the HCEA and took part in it. I agreed with some of their initiatives but not all. I went to work over an hour early and stayed over an hour after the children left. I didn’t complain about it because I considered it part of my job and planning made my job easier. My children and grandchildren were and are being educated HCPS and for the most part we are happy with their teachers. The students in Harford County are getting quality educations and Maryland continues to be #1 in education according to today’s Baltimore Sun. Those of you who continue to berate the teachers and the system must have a personal axe to grind. Surely in all your school years you had one or two teachers who you remember fondly and taught you the skills needed to succeed in this world. I did and that is why I chose to be a teacher.

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    • @Kotter

      “Surely in all your school years you had one or two teachers who you remember fondly and taught you the skills needed to succeed in this world.”

      I think most people would answer yes to your question, it is however the rest of the incompetent to mediocre teachers that are the problem! I don’t think it’s a good sign that people can only remember a couple of outstanding teachers.

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  24. For all of those people out there who think we are crying… If you think we have it so easy, why didn’t you become a teacher. Why don’t you go back to school so you can have summers off and only work 7.5 hours a day. If it seems like it is so easy, give it a try!

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  25. @TEACHER2

    How would teachers know that they don’t have it better than people in the private sector? Most have been only teachers. It’s not like they have worked 10 years in a private sector job and switched to teaching.

    Frankly most teachers demand that they be viewed as professionals and then at the same time want to be considered hourly non-exempt employees when looking at pay.

    You are a pretty petty and selfish bunch.

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    • @Stillwell. I resent your lumping all teachers into a ” petty and selfish bunch”. What exactly do you do for a career, job, profession? You know that I am a teacher. Come out and let me known what you do? I am even willing to state my name. Are you? I think not!

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      • I am a full time plutarchist hell bent on ushering in a plutarchic new world order.

        George Soros and I will rule this new world order from our Lichtenstein castle/tax haven with our Occupy Wall Street moron army at our beck and call.

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        • Stillwell: Time for your history lesson since you do not know how to google a term: Plutocracy is rule by the wealthy, or power provided by wealth. Oligarchy (from Greek) is a form of power structure in which power effectively rests with an elite class distinguished by royalty, wealth, family ties, commercial, and/or military legitimacy)

          The combination of both plutocracy and oligarchy is called plutarchy. (Government controlled by the wealthy for the wealthy. It is what most so called Western democratic governments these days really are since they are influenced through politicians who are mostly rich celebrities, lawyers and business people (CEO’s) who are supported, influenced and financed through campaign contributions and/or bribes by other rich, famous and influential individuals, families, corporations, companies, organizations and institutions.)

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          • no RETIRED The President is the opposite of a Plutocrat. It is the Tea Party that is working for big business. It is the Democrats that are working for the middle class. You always pretend you are stupid.

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          • It is better that Retired pretend that he is stupid unlike the most ardent liberal/progressives who prove that they are stupid indeed.

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          • Please explain what this President has done for the middle class? Is the middle class better off as a result of his policies? Is the debt he is building going to improve the plight of the middle class? Is the billion dollar campaign financed by the middle class or by the wealthy few?

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          • Proud. So our President does not head up a western government that is influenced by rich celebrities, lawyers, business people, who are supposedly influenced, and financed by/through campaign contributions/bribes, and other rich, famous and influential individuals, families, corporations, organizations,etc..

            Obama is worth several million. I don’t believe 99%s were the ones attending his $35,000 per plate fundraisers in New York, Chicago, and California. Warren Buffet seems like a CEO who fits the 1% classification. In fact, several Democrat members of congress are in the 1% class of wealth in America.

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          • RETIRED: To answer that all you need do is ask which party wants more tax cuts for billionaires and less regulations to curb corporate abuses.

            However, I will state that “The latest Pew surveys find Democrats pulling even with Republicans among registered voters with annual family incomes in excess of roughly $135,000 per annum.” This means that even wealthier voters are disgusted with Republican policies and are voting Democratic. But that is a long way from saying Democrats are the 1%.

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          • Proud,

            You know very well that Obama, Kerry, Pelosi and others of their ilk, and part of the 1%. You are the one who described a Plutarch in detail, and it fits our current government right down the line. Congratulations, you know what it takes to get elected in America.

            The Obamas, Kerrys, and Pelosis of the world don’t want to be like you. If they did they would give away their wealth immediately and join you as a “common man”. Well Proud, that just won’t happen. They enjoy the millions they have, and they need many people like you so they can keep and get more millions. People like you is how they got their millions. Congratulations, you have made them wealthy people!

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    • Assuming that you have a job (even though you have refused numerous requests to state what that job is), and that your job is not a management job…

      “You know more than a few functional incompetent [workers] that [your company] protects, but there is nothing you can do about it is there?”

      I know two or three teachers in my building who have poor reputations. I don’t know for certain that they are bad because I have never been one of their students. However, there is nothing that I can do about it because I do not have supervisory power. There is a process by which these teachers are identified, evaluated, provided with the opportunity for corrective action, and re-evaluated.

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      • My private sector job is not in question and all that matters is that I pay a great deal in property, state and federal taxes.

        Besides you only want to know what my station is in life so you can better attack me personally and distract from the waste and incompetence in Harford County schools. Face it you hate what I have to say and how I say it.

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          • I think there a plenty of people that agree with me that education is broken, teacher incompetence is rewarded and that maintaining the status quo is the most important thing to most of you in education.

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          • STILLWELL: I think more people would disagree with you. Maryland has the best schools in the country. Harford County has some of the best in Maryland: The Best of the Best! Just because you have a crumby job and have had a poor educational experience, don’t project that onto this discussion.

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  27. The county has the funds to pay for raises for HCPS, Library system, Sheriff’s and HCG employees. The funds are there and taxes have not been raised. The economy in HC is bouncing back thanks to APG and Edgewood Arsenal and a host of new businesses opening up. Wegmans, Duclaw about to open a plant in Havre de Grace and Kohl’s warehouse to name some that come to mind. The taxpayer is paying less than in past years in property taxes (tax rate has been lowered the past 2 to 3 years). As long as the tax rate doesn’t increase and if the county continues to project increases in funding, then a raise is not only deserved but warranted. At least that is what happens in the private sector when a business does well, the employees are rewarded. If the county council and the CE don’t show enough leadership to do what is right for the taxpayer and their employees then, the county will suffer greatly in the years to come.

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    • In the private sector, salaries are determined by market forces. If a position is open and applicants are scarce, the employer may raise the salary to attract candidates. There seems to be no shortage of applicants to the open positions at HCPS. If you feel you can do better elsewhere and other workplace factors are the same,(hours, atmosphere, culture, etc.) go.

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    • I’m glad you pointed out that I’m paying less in taxes than in previous years. I sure must have missed that somewhere when I was writing all those checks to the local, state, and federal governments. Boy, I feel better now.

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  28. We have tremendous wealth in Harford County and we must share it with our deserving teachers. The rich in the county should be their fair share, we are the 99%.

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  30. Personally, I believe in EDUCATION. It doesn’t matter if it’s private, home, or public. As long as the students are learning and acquiring skills, then however it’s delivered is a-okay.

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  31. So many people focus on the fact that the school year is 190 days for teachers. A friend of mine loves to point that out in every conversation we have over US attitudes towards teachers…and I always have to point out that, yes, I don’t work during the summer in school…BUT NEITHER DO I GET PAID DURING THE SUMMER! It isn’t a paid vacation-it’s weeks without a paycheck! Teachers don’t work year round because the county doesn’t want to pay for the comparable salary. I have a Master’s degree + 30 additional credits which at a miniumum is $600 per graduate credit (for which you are not reimbursed for anything after your Master’s degree). A person I know works at APG and has an A.A. degree but makes $35,000 more a year than I do. I just find it amazing that it seems to not be a problem for so many people that the county is not honoring their part of the contract but expects us to still do the job they contracted for anyway. I am paying 50% more for health insurance this year without having seen a pay increase in years. Since I teach high school, I am REQUIRED to chaperone 9 hours of sports without pay-even if it means I have to pay a babysitter to watch my children while I am at school making sure other people’s children are behaving at a football game.

    As in any workplace, there are people there for the wrong reasons-Many of the comments above center on ‘bad teachers’. We are observed and evaluated all the time now -administrators are constantly in classrooms observing teachers. There is a process to assist struggling teachers to get better at their job first, rather than just terminating them outright. You may not agree with that but US citizens have learned to sue over the smallest issue and teaching is not the only profession that has a system in place that provides documentation of what was done to help the employee before terminating them.

    I find it frustrating that many of the parents who are screaming about bad teachers are also the ones who will attack me because their child did not turn in work and will demand that I take it late so their child doesn’t fail. Somehow it’s my fault that their child doesn’t do their work or prefers to copy answers instead of doing their own work and now can’t do well on an exam. With the use of Edline, there really isn’t an excuse for a parent to not know exactly how well or how poorly your child is doing. Yet I still have conferences with parents who demand to know why I didn’t warn them about their child’s grades. I’m guessing these are the people yelling that I’m paid too much. They’re probably also the ones who have no problem with all the math teachers that stay after school and give what amounts to free tutoring services to students who are struggling in order to get them to pass the class.

    We’ve reached a place in our society where you are not necessarily going to attract the best people into teaching because of how little our citizens respect teaching as a profession. I deal with rudeness from students on a daily basis, disregard for my equipment, supplies and teaching tools and students who think school should be fun while people tell me to stop whining about thinking I should be paid for my hard work and training. I don’t know of many people who would go to the dentist and tell him how to pull a tooth or a pilot and tell him how to land. But everyone went to school and based on their personal experience as a student now think they know how to ‘fix’ what’s wrong with education and have absolutely no trouble telling a teacher how to teach.

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    • I’d be high-tailin’ it over to the Proving Ground with my resume in hand if I could make $35,000 more a year. Just think, if you have a master’s plus as compared to an associates that would equate to about $105,000 more a year. What are you waiting for?

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      • Because their liberal arts degree in History would probably get them a data collector position. Not that isn’t a great and important job, but $25 per hour is hardly comparable to the benefits they get as teachers. And if you think chaperoning young adults is a burden, you haven’t experienced anything until you deal with a daycare filled with 40 year old children and an organization that demands you perform but suppresses your ability to perform by placing incompetent people above you and in support positions. If this sounds like the job you have now, go for it, but at least you have a chance to influence impressionable minds… well some of them anyway.

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  34. Ryan Burbey: Please stop responding to posts telling the commenter to attend the county council meeting. You have a personal agenda in all of this. You want your stinking raise. Well guess what pal, so do the rest of us. We all think we are underpaid for what we do, most of us haven’t gotten pay raises, step increases, bonuses, etc., most of us have had expenses increase while our salaries remain stagnant, so get off your damn soapbox. And your rejoinder that you just want what was promised to you, well guess what buddy? Promises were meant to be broken. You are selfish to want more and more for yourself during these horrible economic times. Sadly enough, none of your posts have anything to do with the students, it’s all about lining your own pocket. Just go away.

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    • @BLINK – RYAN BURBEY and STILLWELL should have the opportunity to post their views on this site as long as they follow the rules. I rarely agree with one and probably never with the other. I fully support giving them the opportunity to make their case in this forum. Are you trying to suggest that free speech is only acceptable if you agree with it? Maybe you should live in North Korea and not America. The freedom to engage in spirited yet civil debate is what our constitution provides and makes this country the best place to call home.

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  35. We need your help!

    Stand Up For Public Education!
    Come to the County Executive Craig Budget Hearing!

    • January 18, 2012 at Havre de Grace High, start time 6:00 pm.

    • Those wishing to speak during the hearing should arrive by 5:30 to sign in.

    • Wear Black

    • Funding for Public Education is in serious trouble in Harford County. Lack of funding hurts student achievement. Harford County has consistently overestimated expenditures and underestimated revenue, and our schools are paying the price. Our schools’ share of the county budget has decreased nearly 6% over the last decade despite a rising unreserved general fund balance projected to reach nearly $80 million this year. Our teachers are being asked to do more with less support for their students.

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  36. We should pay our teachers at least $75,000 to start and the average should be at least $130,000 and we should pay 100% of pension and health insurance.

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    • @ Proud to be more liberal- I guess you are a teacher?? If you are a teacher and you feel that is what you are entitled to, you are definitely in the profession for the wrong reasons. Exactly how is that going to help student achievement, since that is what the primary goal of education should be? How do you propose to pay for the increased salaries and pensions? You do realize that many of our students have parents who have faced salary and benefit cuts and job losses over the last few years, right? Increasing property and/or income taxes on the parents of our students could very well leave some of them homeless. I don’t think that would be very conducive to improving student achievement. The state has indicated that the current pension system is unsustainable, and yet you want to overload it even more. You certainly must not be a math or economics teacher.

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  38. The problem with the teaching vs. private sector arguement is that it’s comparing apples and oranges. How do I know this? Because I have experience in BOTH sectors. I was a teacher for 10 years and I’ve been in the private sector for 5 years now. There is absolutely no way to compare the two realistically. If you want to compare teachers in Harford County to something else, you need to compare them to teachers in other counties in Maryland because that is the nearest, fairest comparison that can be made. And when you do so, you’ll see that AS TEACHER SALARIES AND BENEFITS GO (notice I didn’t say the private sector), Harford County is among the worst. Now, I know people are going to say teaches are just whining. But remember…they are simply asking for what has already been negotiated. The union and the board of ed. agreed to a contract the other year with a COLA increase and 2 steps that hadn’t been given. To ask that this contract be honored is not whining and it’s not a feeling of entitlement…it’s asking for what they’ve already been told they would be given. In private sector terms for all of you who like to compare apples and oranges….that’s like being told at your year end evaluation that you are going to receive a 3% merit increase for the next year, then come January 1st, you’re told nevermind, you’re not getting what we already promised we’d give you.

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    • Yes, in the real world, that is exactly what happens when the economy takes a downturn. As a teacher myself, I do see it as an entitlement mentality. You believe that you are entitled to live in a separate world than anyone else, untouched by the economic factors that are plaguing the parents of the students you are supposed to be helping. In 2009, my husband’s salary was cut 5%, as were all the salaries of his fellow employees, except management, who took a 7-10% pay cut. He was lucky; many people were laid off. He was given additional duties even though his pay was lower (being asked to do more for less). He did not recieve a bonus for the next couple of years. The company ended their share of 401k contributions; we eliminated our insurance plan in favor of a high deductible HSA, because the premiums on the plan we had doubled, making it unaffordable for us. He works for a great company. The management was simply doing what it needed to do to keep the company solvent. Last year, he finally received a raise, but even with the raise, he is still making less than he did in 2008, and just like everyone else, we are dealing with inflated costs of living. His company is finally starting to grow, and things are looking better for the future. I hate to break it to you, but the public sector depends upon the private sector for its funding, so you are not immune, nor should you be immune to the economic conditions faced by the homeowners who are supporting you. Most people who actually fund your salary have not seen a COLA increase in the past few years, including the elderly who are on fixed incomes, and are just trying to pay for medical care and property taxes. I do like the fact that you described the 3% increase as being based on merit in the private sector. That would be a good starting point for actually improving the quality of education for our students; base teacher raises on merit. Unfortunately, in discussions on education, the argument generally focuses on teacher pay and benefits, rather than how to improve the quality of education of our students, which are two very separate issues.

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      • Teacher pay/benefits and improving the quality of education are most certainly linked. Without competitive pay/benefit packages, HCPS cannot recruit or retain high quality teachers. Sure, some of the districts high quality teachers will stay in order to serve the communities that they feel connected to, but HCPS cannot count on that forever. I have personally seen highluy talented young educators leave HCPS and teaching altogether because they could survive on the pay or did not feel their talents and work were valued. When those high quality instructors are replaced by less quality teachers willing to work for the pay, the quality of education suffers.

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      • Jackie: Thank you for attempting to get the posters who think they are entitled to colas, raises, etc. to get a grip on reality. Deal with it like the rest of us are. Don’t think it will sink in though.

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    • If you want to be given what you have negotiated in the form of salary, then it would be wise to negotiate with the entity that controls the money. The BOE is not a taxing authority, and has no legal right to dictate to the taxing authority. Why does the Union negotiate with the BOE, when the BOE does not control the purse strings? Seems that is like me negotiating a raise in my allowance with my brother, only to have him return and tell me that Dad didn’t agree and refused to increase my allowance.

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      • Hey Retiredawhile,

        “Seems that is like me negotiating a raise in my allowance with my brother, only to have him return and tell me that Dad didn’t agree and refused to increase my allowance.” – The situation with the teachers/board/county seems to be more like negotiating an allowance with your mother to do some chores, you going out and doing the chores, when your father is the one that is working and he then doesn’t want to pay you. (no offense meant to any man/woman/father/mother)

        Anyways, have a nice day.

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          • Hey Retiredawhile,

            “Yes, exactly. If Mom doesn’t control the money then I should not be negotiating with her. After all Mom has the authority to make me do the chores for free!” – The only problem is, Dad won’t talk to you and per some sort of convoluted divorce agreement, Mom is the only one permitted to negotiate with you. This is why this whole dysfunctional family is back in court.

            Anyways, have a nice day.

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          • Hey Retiredawhile,

            “Are you saying that the teachers union is not permitted to negotiate with the county executive because of a court order?” – No, that is not what I was saying. That was just why apparently unsuccessful analogy going more into the family affair situation we discussed. I do not know the legality of who the union is permitted to negotiate with or who the board is permitted to negotiate with or who the county is permitted to negotiate with. I suspect the union and board handle the negotiations while the board and county handle the funding. While I think that the negotiations should be between those that handle the funding, apparently the government does not. Is the union permitted to bypass the board and negotiate directly with the government; or is the board an arm of the government that handles the negotiations?

            Anyways, have a nice day.

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          • Paul MC,

            Then you and I are in agreement. I would negotiate with whoever provides the funding, unless prohibited by law.

            Any idea who the Deputies Union negotiates with, the Sheriff or the Executive? They seem to do pretty well.

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          • The union negotiates with the Board because teachers are employed by HCPS, not by HCG. The fact that HCPS is funded by some other source is not taken into account in this equation. HCPS employee unions should negotiate with those who pay them, as they do in all places in the workforce. The problems have arisen because (A) HCPS has to go ask for funding *after* the negotiations with employee unions has happened, and (B) HCPS has chosen to take money intended for employee salaries and put it towards other budget items, such as school construction and other non-salary expenses.

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          • Hey Concerned Teacher,

            Thank you very much for posting the information.

            Anyways, have a nice day.

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    • The recurring theme of the “negotiated contract” needs to be addressed. The management folk who agreed to the raises and steps and COLA s and so on were counting on being able to go to the ATM well again and just demand the everybody accede to paying more for the same thing. This was to be accomplished at the same time as the real estate market collapsed and the economy took a crap. It seems to me that there was no good faith. How can a promise be made when there is absolutely no chance of funding the promise? It got those bozos on both sides of the table through another negotiation but when it comes time to pay the fiddler we find out that the we’re broke. There is a comparison between private and public sector by the way. Before I can make out my paychecks I have to have money in the bank. If I know there won’t be money in the bank at the end of the week I probably shouldn’t promise all my people pay raises.

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  39. Really, another chance for a Union guy to take shots at the county execs. This was an article that had many great points about teaching and then it took a turn toward the political again by attacking the county for their dealings with the Unions. Why ruin an article full of valid points by taking cheap shots? The whining about the county politics continues to make teachers look bad when there were so many other good points worth discussing.

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    • I wish county politics were independent of all this but unfortunately, teachers and school funding are being used as pawns in a political manipulation.

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  40. Only two years to get rid of a bad teacher. You’re right Ryan, that’s great. They can’t do that much damage to our kids in only two years. Only one in twenty is really bad. How many are just poor?

    “protect the integrity of the educational system” Please.

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    • B- if you are concerned with the quality of the teacher in the classroom and you don’t like that it takes 2 years to get rid of the bad ones, you should support the notion that competitive salaries will attract the better ones to your children’s schools in the first place.

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      • That is faulty logic. Are you saying that incompetent or lazy teachers won’t apply/ be hired in Harford if they just increase the salary? A higher pay scale is not a deterrent for lousy applicants, nor does it ensure that the teacher will do the job once hired. Only merit pay can have an impact on performance.

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        • I like merit pay to a point. But how can a teacher control if a student does homework, studies, and puts forth personal effort? If we can somehow effectively add these into any merit equation, then I can fully support it.

          But how do you accomplish this?

          And don’t give me the tired old “a good teacher can make a kid want to study” line. If a student is lazy, turned off to school, owns little intrinsic motivation, and has no parental support, the greatest teacher in the world is going to find this kid impossible to reach.

          Again, I am for teacher merit pay. I just wonder how you would factor the student into the equation.

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          • I wouldn’t factor in the student at all. It would be based on the teacher’s performance according to a set of criteria determined by the district. Merit pay should be based on whether or not a teacher is fulfilling the duties required by the position. Just as in the private sector, managers are not held responsible for an employee’s failure to show up for work an perform, a teacher should not be held responsible for the student who chooses not to do what he/she is expected to do. A manager is responsible to enforce the consequences of poor performance by employees, and a teacher should be held to that standard. There are a variety of factors that influence student motivation and performance, most of which have nothing to do with the teacher. There would have to be a formula that the district develops including factors such as use of class time, preparation, responsiveness to parents, etc., professionalism, effective use of time, etc. Increased pay for increased training and degrees should continue; COLA increases should continue when feasible, as in private sector jobs, and step increases should be replaced with merit pay.

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        • Competitive salaries attract high quality candidates not only in teaching, but in any form of employment. If I am a high quality teaching candidate, with a demonstrated level of success, that could get hired anywhere, why would I choose to work with a district where I wouldn’t be compensated at a level I deserve?

          “Merit pay” for teachers will cause more problems than the good it could do. Teachers will run away from tough assignments with high levels of special education students once their salaries become directly linked to student performance on a goverment mandated test. Should good teachers that show substantive gains in student performance be compensated, of course. Should all teachers be paid in a merit-based system, no way.

          You are the one with the faulty logic.

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          • So you prefer a safer position that spreads the available money out equally instead of rewarding the better teachers with higher salary. All of you good teachers should be upset that the bad ones get compensated the same as you do, and are holding you back.

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          • Hgher salariesonly attract more candidates not necessarily more qualified candidates. As most in a hiring position will tell you, less than a quarter of all applicants are really qualified.

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        • What he is saying is if you raise salaries then you will attract more applicants then you have posityions. This affords you the ability to choose from a larger pool and also will allow you to replace with ease mediocre teachers. Some of the mediocre teachers may be inspired to work harder as they will have to work harder to meet muster.

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          • Why will they be inspired to work harder to meet muster? With the current system, the district can’t fire a mediocre or poor teacher and hire a better one. Teachers at the same level make the same pay, regardless of performance. The current system encourages and protects mediocrity, except for those who are purely intrinsically motivated to do a good job regardless of extrinsic rewards. Extrinsic motivators only work if they are tied to performance. If your students knew at the end of the year that all would receive C’s regardless of the level of work completed in the classroom, how well do you think grades would work as a motivator? Sure you would still have the few who would turn in “A” level work because they were instrinsically motivated to learn and perform. However, the vast majority would not see any incentive to studying and completing assignments when they could play Xbox and watch TV for the same grade. That is just human nature. @ABINGDONTEACHER: Teacher performance and student performance are two entirely different things and should be treated as such in any merit-based system.

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          • because a better one can not be found in many cases. If a pricipal knows there is a pool of good candidates out there they may make it a point to get the mediocre teacher tossed. Knowing this the mediocre teacher may work harder!!!!!
            Then Jackie how do you measure teacher preformance? BTW your grade example is a good one as it is the situation many teachers face. Furthermore if the pay was better then perhaps the teachers would not leave to go to places with better pay and benefits!

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    • Hey Stillwell,

      “If we take your advice we’ll just pay bad teachers more money and it will still take two years to remove them.” – This is not necessarily the case. The statement Mr. Burbey made was ‘In most cases, this can be accomplished, by motivated administrators, within 2 years.’ Mr. Burbey stated the process is usually completed within two years, not that the process takes 2 years. I do not have the data on what the average amount of time it takes to terminate a teacher. I would like to see it, though. Also, with the appeals process and possible litigation, I would imagine there are cases where it could take years to complete the process, though that would be more of an issue with the judicial system.

      Anyways, have a nice day.

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  42. CDEV, Are you suggesting that the teachers in Harford County are inferior, and that there is a shortage of quality teachers because the good ones have moved on? There are tangible ways to measure teacher performance, such as: planning, use of instructional time, responsiveness, professionalism, evaluation of student work in a timely manner, organization, etc. If every time an administrator walks by a classroom the teacher is at his/her desk and the kids are either goofing off or “engaged” in busywork, the teacher probably is not doing his/her job sufficiently. If other occupations have a system for performance evaluations, there is no reason why one can’t be developed for educators. Our students deserve it.

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    • I and others are telling you that slowlyyou are losing good teachers because they go and get better pay. You are left with people at the end of their career, rookies and legacy teachers as well. The rookies who become better……leave and you will end up with a teaching force which is not the best availible because you let the good ones leave! At my wifes school about 10 teachers in the 10-20 year range are leaving for better pay and benefits and they lost 10 last year for the same reason! 4 retirements and this means you have lost 1/3rd of the faculty in 2 years!!!!!!

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  43. In a perfect world teachers would be paid $100,000 a year. Along with Police Officers, Fire Fighters and Soldiers. Policitans wouldnt line thier pockets with corporate money while stealing money from those they are sworn to represent. Politicians wouldnt serve one term and be paid for this rest of their LIVES.This is FAR from a perfect world. I do feel sorry for the teachers, but they know when they went to school to become teachers they weren’t going to be paid well. They can hope for change sure. But,with the economy being what it is, people losing job, and taking furlough days. Can you really expect a raise? Sure the bonus would have been nice you you all. Your Union Rep denied it because he felt you all deserved a raise and he didnt want the County Executive to tell him how to spend the money. Sometimes you just cant look a gift horse in the mouth. He should have taken the money on behalf of his teachers if he was looking out for them.

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  44. After teaching for over 25 years and finally leaving HCPS to go to a better paying school system, I remain saddened at the disrespect that teachers continue to endure in Harford County. My daughter has expressed interest in becoming a teacher. I told her that I would not pay for her college courses unless she promised to seek employment in the private sector. I can no longer stomach the ill will that is thrown at teachers…the lack of respect and support from the public ia appalling. I have loved my profession…what in Heaven’s name has happened!?

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    • Just to be honest with you Jeff, I am not a teacher. However, I feel the “ill will” you mention comes from the perception the non-teaching public has toward teachers. This perception(and it’s true and not true in some cases)is that teachers whine too much about not being paid enough and not being appreciated enough. The non-teaching public simply get’s tired of hearing it year after year.

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      • Brian, if that is what the public feels about teachers, then maybe some investigation on the public’s part is in order. Perhaps all that the teachers say is true but continues to fall on deaf ears. The only comment I hear from the public is the outcry that we demand that our contracts recognized. However, the biggest problem that is rarely addressed is the fact that teachers are not supported and that our field takes the blame for everything….including the financial woes of counties and state. We have dutifully increased our portion of health care and retirement but the powers that be have misused those funds and are now allowing the public to place the blame on us!

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        • I believe the public is generally supportive of teachers. Based on the comments here, it appears that Mr. Burbey and many others posting, do not realize they are the beneficiaries of a defined pension plan in which the general public has invested 2-3x as much as the employees. Most in the public greatly value teachers, and most teachers do a great job with the resources they have. There are a lot more issues teachers have to deal with now than in the past; the profession has changed significantly in the past 50-60 years. However, loud outcries about teacher salaries have been going on for decades, long before this current issue arose. Visit the public budget hearings in any district in the state or in any district in the country, and you will hear the same thing, regardless of what teachers are currently getting in that particular district. The story is always the same: We are underpaid and undervalued; we need more $ to do our job well. I have been in classrooms where there are not even enough books for each student to have one, yet teachers never show up to lobby for adequate resources for students or a better curriculum and improved standards so that their students won’t have to take remedial math or English when they enter college. They don’t lobby for merit pay to create competition and allow for the best teachers to be hired, so that students get the best education possible. I certainly don’t believe that the public would feel like they were constantly being fleeced if teachers were being paid what they were genuinely worth; I believe that the public would certainly value and pay fairly for a high-value product. The disconnect with the public is when the same complaints are made year after year, and when everyone else is suffering financially, teachers go to Annapolis and march by the thousands against the “teacher tax”, which is merely in increase in employee contributions to his/her own retirement, which the public is currently funding at 2-3x that amount. I heard these same complaints about pay years ago when I was a full time teacher in the public school system. At some point I plan to go back to full-time teaching, and I am currently vested in the pension system, so I am not saying this as an outsider who simply doesn’t understand just “how bad” teachers have it. After a while, it seems to be just like “The Boy Who Cried Wolf.” Qualified teachers should be supportive of merit pay. If there is that much dissatisfaction with the job, we live in a free country where you are welcome to quit and find a job that pays more and has better benefits. I think it’s past time for us to change the conversation to the students who certainly deserve a better education than they receive in most schools in our county. To clarify, I don’t lay the problems in education at the feet of most teachers; on the contrary, I think that most do a great job despite the outside influences that factor into the learning environment.

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          • Jackie:
            Please explain to me how “merit pay” will work for the teacher that is in a low income, high crime area school where there is little to no parental support for the student in school? If this student is un -motivated and uninterested and behaviorally challenged, how is that same teacher going to make a difference in order to earn his or her merit pay? Explain to me how the special education teacher will earn his or her merit pay when working with students that are at the severe and profound levels and said progress takes years to manifest? Merit pay sounds terrific up front but no one has been able to tell me how it can truly work in an equitable fashion.

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          • Her idea of merit pay is not the standard use of the term merit pay as we know it She doesn’t tie in student achievement.

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          • I’ve posted on this before, but “Merit Pay” isn’t financially possible. Ignore all of the other complaints (no objective way to determine “merit,” differences in student populations, etc). Just look at it from a purely economic standpoint, and you’ll see that it just doesn’t work.

            Say that you found a way to objectively determine “merit.” How do you pay for it? How do you budget for it? With the step system, you know what your employees will make from year to year, and you can budget accordingly. Say you budget based on the idea that 15% of teachers will have “merit” (we’ll call them Master Teachers, to steal Baltimore County’s term). What do you do if 30% of teachers are determined to be good enough for the Master Teacher label? Your budget is suddenly busted, and what can be done about it at that point? Do you institute an internal cap on the number of teachers that can even BE Master Teachers? Well, then you aren’t giving merit pay (if people merit the pay and are being denied that pay, then the whole premise of the system fails).

            Now let’s look at it from a parental standpoint. Say your child is in a school with 20% of the teachers labeled as deserving merit pay (and the parents will know, because teacher salary is a matter of public record). Your kid doesn’t have ANY of those teachers, yet the neighbor kid has multiple classes taught by Master Teachers. What would your reaction be to that? True, kids have good teachers and bad teachers now, but they aren’t labeled that way by the school system. If the school system labels certain teachers as the “best” teachers, I assure you that some parents will sue the system because their kid didn’t have enough classes with those teachers.

            The reality is that, if we want to keep public education (and it was a passion of Thomas Jefferson), the ONLY way to afford it is the step system. The step system is fiscal conservatism at its finest. Teachers don’t and CAN’T earn what they would in the private sector. It’s not financially sustainable. What they get instead is security. They never experience the financial joys of economic boom years, but they are likewise insulated from much of the suffering of recession years. The trade-off is that they are supposed to make a moderate, predictable wage with good benefits regardless of the economy. In boom years, the public gets a major bargain. In bust years (like now), the deal doesn’t look so good. At the end of the day, it all balances out.

            For those of you ripping the incomes and benefits of your county’s teachers based on the idea that everybody needs to share the suffering, I ask you this: Where were your voices of outrage when the economy was surging in the late 1990’s and HCPS teachers were making a comparative pittance compared to others in the private sector? Why weren’t you demanding that your teachers “share in the prosperity” the same way you demand that they “share in the suffering”? You weren’t fighting for teachers’ salaries to mirror the general economy then. You were arguing that they “knew what they signed up for.” That’s right. They did. They signed up for a moderate income with small incremental wage increases that would stay consistent in good times and bad. The economy is not so great right now, and NOW you attack the teachers because you feel that they have it better than you (which, right now, many of them do). Guess what? To borrow your own phrase, “you know what you signed up for.”

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          • Merit pay is financially feasible. Just as in the private sector an employee receives a yearly evaluation with potential for pay increase if he/she is performing well, teachers would go through the same process. In the private sector, even an excellent employee doesn’t receive the same salary as veterans in the company, so the idea that there would all of a sudden be all of these “Master Teachers” running around is not true. Instead, the teacher receives a step increase in salary dependent on performance. If he/she isn’t performing well, he/she doesn’t get a raise, but is told what he/she needs to improve before the next evaluation to have the opportunity for a raise (Again, this should be based strictly on teacher performance/behavior, not student performance behavior). If he/she is performing well, a raise is given, but as in any evaluation, the teacher receives a review of strengths and weaknesses- things to improve. In the private sector, both experience and competence factor into pay, and they should in teaching as well. It would be impossible for a teacher to reach “Master Teacher” status right away, because that would only be awarded to teachers who have the continued education, experience, and performance to warrant it. Teachers in this model would still receive their annual increases, unless they are found to be performing inadequately (coming to class unprepared, cursing at students, showing movies most of the time instead of instructing students, etc.) I wouldn’t make teachers jump through hoops to meet a performance evaluation; rather it should be based on the teachers fulfilling the basic requirements of the job as they were trained to do in their undergraduate education. That is certainly a reasonable requirement for a professional position.

            Teachers make moderate professional salary as they always have, not significantly lower or higher than other professional fields. http://www.naceweb.org/uploadedFiles/NACEWeb/Research/Salary_Survey/Reports/SS_January_exsummary_4web.pdf Factoring in the employer contribution for the pension, which is at least 10% of their base pay above what most private sector employees enjoy, as well as the healthcare benefits you receive which are more generous than most private sector jobs, significantly increases your actual pay. Although it has been suggested that teachers were shafted while others were cashing in during the economic boom, that simply isnt the case. The pay for those in the most professional fields, particularly the service sector, such as health care professionals, does not fluctuate enormously depending on economic conditions. Those types of fluctuations only occur in occupations where producing capital is the primary function of the company; in that case, profit sharing and bonuses can lead to increased salaries during a good economy that would not be enjoyed otherwise. Teachers were not shafted during the economic boom; new contracts always led to increases in base pay, and each year guaranteed a COLA and a step increase. This is comparable to other service sector professional jobs, except in most, a performance evaluation is conducted before an increase in pay is awarded.

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          • Teachers, please read my comments about merit pay, and then tell me why any of you would be opposed to it as I’ve presented it?

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          • Jackie,

            That post of yours asking for reasons why some teachers oppose merit pay as you’ve outlined it? Look one post above it. That’s exactly what I did.

            For the record, I was one of those teachers you argue don’t exist. I did lobby for improved books and curriculum. When I was laughed at by school and central administration, I organized fund-raisers for the books and created the better curriculum on my own time. Remember those central administration folks who laughed at me when I wanted support in that work? Once it was finished and showing success, they gave me an award and pretended that they were involved from day one. When I last visited the HCPS school where I used to work, I found out that most of my former department is still using my materials.

            That’s not (entirely) about patting myself on the back. I had loads of help and a great many fantastic mentors. In a department of ~15 people, we only had two “bad” teachers, a few average teachers and 8 or 9 top notch people who would EASILY be granted “Merit pay” based on your definition. That’s my point. There’s no way to pay for the number of teachers who would deserve merit pay, and if you limit that opportunity to a set percentage of the budget, then it’s not really “merit” pay anymore, is it?

            I think Merit pay is a grand idea. Like the idea of Vouchers, I think it would be a wonderful thing to implement in a perfect world. This is not a perfect world. In the real world, budgets have to be predictable, and there’s no way to realistically pay for or budget merit pay. Everywhere it has been tried, it has epically failed within the first two years (See–DC Public schools, where they promised teachers mountains of merit pay if they gave up their tenure protections. Tenure went away, scores of experienced and comparatively expensive teachers were fired without cause, and when it came time for those who were left to receive their merit pay, they were told that the money just wasn’t there. See also–Baltimore City Public Schools, where top-notch teachers who meet and exceed every stated requirement for being e “Master Teacher” with merit pay are being rejected with no explanation. What’s the point of merit pay if you earn it and they refuse to give it to you?).

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          • Merit pay would work with your boss evaluating you, and a set amount available for raises budgeted every year.

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        • I Left: My comment prior to the question you answered has not yet been approved. In my comment, I explained a financially feasible and fair way to implement merit pay. It wouldn’t be much different from step increases, except your increase would be tied to your performance as a teacher, not student performance. A master teacher status with the accompanying pay would not be earned quickly, because it would have to be validated with education, experience, and performance. In the private sector, individuals don’t immediately move up several pay grades without additional training or experience; it is a process, and a similar process should be adopted in the teaching profession.

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          • I look forward to reading your idea, though, based solely on the abstract you just provided, why bother changing if it’s that similar to the step system? The first few steps are for very small amounts, and teachers are required to earn tenure, a set number of credits (by the 5 year mark) and a Masters degree (by the ten year mark) in order to keep their jobs and continue moving up to the more valuable steps. That sounds very similar to what you’ve described. That said, I will of course reserve my final opinion until your longer explanation is approved/posted to the boards.

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          • The component missing from the current system is performance, which is separate from both education and experience. Having education and tenure does not guarantee that you are actually going to show up on time prepared to provide instruction to kids. When I was in the classroom full time, most of the teachers I knew took pride in their work and did a great job. However, I also knew those who were capable of doing the job, but chose not to do it. They did the bare minimum or less. I knew a dept. head who was at the top of the pay scale who used to show movies 3 days a week and hand out work sheets the other 2 days. The movies he showed had nothing to do with his subject area, and they included flicks such as “BioDome” and “Animal House”. The kids loved him because he was easy and fun, but they didn’t learn a thing about US history in his class. Good teachers, the rest of society, and most importantly, students suffer when a bad teacher is allowed to stay on the job with no reprecussions. I’m sure in your experience you have witnessed similar things.

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          • I have, and I couldn’t stand it. One of the 9th grade teachers did that, and it took half the year for me to de-program those kids as 10th graders (they wanted to “watch the movie version” for every assignment. It was maddening).

            One of the teachers who floated into my classroom showed movies and let her kids watch television on a regular basis. One day, I popped in to get something from my desk, and realized that A- she wasn’t even in the room, and B- she was showing them a DVD that she found in my desk (a film I brought in to loan to another teacher–the language in the film was not even close to appropriate for school-aged kids).

            You want to know the really terrifying bit? That 9th grade teacher is a department chair now. That floating teacher is an Assistant Principal. You said it yourself–the teachers who do nothing and give A’s to everyone are popular. Too frequently, they are the ones who look to become administrators. As administrators, they do exactly what they did in the classroom–they look for the easiest route through the mine-field, lowering standards, keeping bad but popular teachers and cracking down on teachers who actually try to hold kids accountable. I completely agree with you that we need change in the school system–I just think that the area where change is needed most is at the administrative level (both central and school-based).

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          • Blaming competent teachers for the irresponsible or incompetent is ridiculous. The actions you describe Jackie are ridiculous but easily handled by administration. It is the responsibility of administration to deal with these issues, not unions or teachers. If you know of irresponsible behavior like showing pop movies, report it.

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          • Ryan, nothing I have said blames competent, hard working teachers. Rather, I have advocated a system which rewards those teachers and discourages those who don’t do their job and reflect poorly on the whole profession. A teacher who is hard working would not be negatively impacted by the system I suggested. In fact, the likelihood is that there would be a positive impact, because the bar would be raised for lazy teachers who are a drag on the whole school, including those hard working teachers who have to remediate because the teacher the previous year didn’t teach. The current system promotes and rewards mediocrity, not excellence. Ryan, you know as well as I do that it is much easier to turn a blind eye to these things than to deal with them. Bad behavior is ignored, grades are changed, and the educational environment continues to be undermined, because it is much easier to allow these things than deal with the consequences of acknowledging them. Unless a parent who is watchful over their child’s education raises a fuss, which many are reluctant to do, then the issues are not addressed. In the meantime, students are robbed of an education, and good teachers are robbed of the professional working environment they deserve.

            I Left: I agree with you that other areas of reform are needed. I believe that students and administrators need to be held more accountable for the standard of behavior they maintain in the school.

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          • Jackie, The fact is that the system for which you advocate is already in place. As to encouraging mediocrity, I believe that mediocrity is encouraged by the ridiculous working conditions and lack of resources which currently are foisted upon both students and teachers by underfunding education. The truth is that teachers today do more than ever and are better than ever; the standards are just higher.

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          • @Jackie

            You need to stop perpetuating the myth that any teacher’s performance is measurable. You must accept that our teachers are perfected. It is the variables that are imperfect…students, parents, administrators and BOE.

            Once you fix the variables it is only then that the rest of us will see that teachers are performing at an exceptional level.

            In the meantime, you need to take it on faith that teachers are great performers and non-teachers should just shot up.

            I have put all my faith in the dogma according the omnipotent and omniscient Ryan Burbrey academic demigod elitist extraordinaire.

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          • Interesting argument, Jackie, and I appreciate the fact that you both took the time to explain it and that you (unlike some) are engaging in discussion rather than insults.

            I still have some misgivings about your plan, however, with two being the most troublesome.

            First–As I mentioned before, I think any education reform needs to begin at the administrative level. Until that happens, I just don’t see how your plan can work at all, since it places so much power (the power over the very livelihood of teachers) in the hands of those administrators. You’ve been in the classroom before. You know, I’m sure, that petty workplace politics happen when the school is run by incompetent admins. Under the current system, if an admin didn’t like you personally, he/she would just screw with your schedule. I’ve seen it happen. One principal gave one of my co-workers a lousy schedule and put him on a plan of assistance (after he got glowing reviews all year). This happened shortly after an altercation where he confiscated a magazine from a student, and the student’s parents went postal. The principal was angry that he had to deal with the fallout from that teacher’s audacity to enforce classroom discipline. Another teacher got a schedule full of honors and electives. She literally showed movies all the time while sitting at her computer playing on the internet. She got the cake schedule because she inflated grades, had no expectations, and was easy on the eyes (this principal had a reputation–one he himself would mention in all-masculine company–for hiring attractive women).

            On top of that, the observation system is a little screwy. In my years in HCPS, I was never–NEVER–observed by someone in my content area (and I taught in one of the four core content areas). The principal was one of my observers, and he frequently went on record as saying that he didn’t see why schools even bothered to teach my subject. During observations, he would sit in the back of the room and draw in a notebook (planes, motorcycles, etc). Would you want your salary to be determined by such a person? In order for your plan to have any chance of succeeding, administration reform needs to happen first.

            Second– My other concern with your plan is that it would immediately change the nature of the way good teachers work. Right now, good teachers are collaborators. As I mentioned earlier, many of my former colleagues are still using my materials. I’ve used materials and ideas that they’ve created. We’ve worked together to create new/better ways to approach instruction. That kind of collaboration is GOOD for students and learning. If you have a 10th grade teacher who is awesome at teaching Edgar Allen Poe, a 9th grade teacher who is amazing with novels, an 11th grade teacher who is great with writing instruction and a 12th grade teacher who is phenomenal with Shakespeare, wouldn’t you want them to collaborate?

            Your plan puts those teachers into competition with each other. That’s what everyone says they want, because they ASSUME that teachers in competition for money will lead to better instruction. It won’t. It will lead to a 9th grade class where the novels are wonderfully taught, but Shakespeare and Poe fall flat, and writing is haphazard at best. It will lead to a 10th grade class where they will always remember the Poe unit, but the rest of the year is a little blah. It only benefits the students when teachers share strengths and collaborate (as they do now), and under your plan, teachers would be financially punished for doing just that (there’s only a set amount of $$ for raises in your plan. If sharing your hard work with others would risk your raise, would you share or hoard?)

            As I said initially, thank you for writing out your ideas, but those are two rather large impediments to your plan that jump out at me.

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          • I Left: I see your point about the administrators, and there definitely needs to be a way to safeguard against bias in evaluations.

            I think you misunderstood part of what I suggested for merit pay. Teachers would not be in competition with each other because they wouldn’t be measured against each other but rather against a standard, just as students are measured against a rubric on writing assignments, not against their classmates. Teachers should also be measured against their own documented past performance so they are continually fine-tuning their strengths and improving upon their weaknesses. Typically, according to contract, teachers receive a step increase annually. There would not be a limit of funds, because all this proposal does is make that increase contingent upon adequate performance. All teachers who meet performance standards would get a raise, not just a select few at the top.

            As you stated, there are definitely things that would need to be worked out regarding who evaluates and how evaluations are conducted. There would have to be concrete documentation of performance to either justify or deny a raise, and the documentation should be done by more than one person. I think there are ways to ensure the system is as fair as possible. That is something that would have to be addressed in any merit pay plan.

            I just think until we begin adding accountability in the system at all levels, problems in the schools will persist and grow, public confidence in our schools will wane, and all of society will suffer the consequences. I focused on teachers since that was the topic of this post, and that is my profession. However, I agree that there are other areas of school accountability that should be addressed simultaneously in order for this to work successfully.

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          • Again, Jackie, this system is already in place. Likewise, in Haford County teachers haven’t had steps in three years. While our salary is not directly related to our students’ performance, we are held accountable to a series of standards. One of these is continued professional development. So, you can see why many teachers are pissed that they have not received their “merit pay” fore years…

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          • Hmm. Interesting possibilities, here. I was misunderstanding your argument about the set bit of money (I thought you were saying there would be a pile of cash that everyone would be in competition to get).

            What would you think of something like a tiered step? Instead of an all or nothing step, take the step amount and divide it by a certain number of sub-categories. Say, for the sake of argument, that the full amount of a step would be $1,200. A teacher firing on all cylinders would get the full $1,200. Instead of connecting it solely to objective observations, however, divide it into professional sub-categories.

            For example, you could break it into six categories, each worth $200.

            Possible categories:

            Longevity (This would be an automatic step, earned after a teacher earns his/her Advanced Professional Certificate–it would encourage teachers to do this sooner than the 10 year window they are given).

            Curricular development (This could be earned via writing curriculum, participation in PLC’s, piloting new curricula, etc–It would encourage teachers to continue innovating, rather than letting their teaching get stale).

            Curricular implementation (This would be based on professional observations).

            Parent communication (This could be tied to timeliness and amount of material put onto Edline, e-mail exchanges, phone calls, etc–it would encourage teachers to document such exchanges).

            Professional development (This could be tied to running a PD session for the county, participating in an outside opportunity for PD, etc. It would encourage teachers to seek out ways to improve their craft).

            Mentoring (For veteran teachers, this would be tied to their efforts to guide newer teachers. For the younger teachers, this could be tied to their willingness to be mentored–Encourages departmental cooperation).

            The very nature of such a category system accomplishes many of your stated goals–it highlights what the teacher is doing well/needs to improve on. It is comprised of categories that can largely be objectively documented. It limits the impact of administrative bias (to only one of the six categories). It also encourages teachers to do/document/be recognized for many of the “little things” that often go unnoticed by the general public.

            Thoughts?

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          • Correction–Obviously meant to say “Instead of connecting it to SUBJECTIVE observations.” Apologies.

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    • Pay in the private sector varies greatly. Some pay less, some are equal to public schools, some pay more. It all depends on where you go. What is important is this…teachers are respected and listened to. I have worked in private schools and have found that the administrators consider the teachers to be fellow professionals and work in a collaborative manner. Parents work WITH teachers and most support them. I only left to work closer to my home.

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      • For the most part they pay less in private schools although the teachers do not hae to put up with some of the public school problems. Of the Harford schools I contacted a few years ago, they ranged from 78 -87% of the HCPS salary levels.

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          • I am not sure anymore,but I think it was about 5 days less. All followed the state laws for number of school days per year. The schools had as many or more teacher meeting/training days and after school requirements.

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    • How many students do private school teachers have per class? What percentage of those students are special needs? What kinds of non-instructional duties are private school teachers required to do? What kind of degrees and certifications are they required to hold? You may think you are comparing apples to apples, but public and private schools are two completely different things in regards to the requirements of the job.

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      • To: I Left,
        I have worked in private and public schools. In the private school where I taught, teachers had to hold the same certificates as public school teachers including working towards 30 credits beyond the Masters Degree. Para-professionals had to hold an Associates Degree. Special education classes had ten students with one teacher and one para-professional. Some students required a one to one assistant depending on the handicap condition and/or behavioral support. The same amount of school days were required with two less teacher in-service days. I felt respected, listened to and was involved in curriculum planning. The administration was supportive and looked on me as a professional. Currently, HCPS has little to no respect for its teachers. The current atmosphere is to demoralize and place as many teachers on “plans of assistance” as possible. Veteran teachers with outstanding personnel records are now being vilified and made to feel as if they no longer have worth. I was placed on a “plan” and was blindsided by a new principal! I contacted my former principal to ask if my past performance records were correct. My former principal told me that I was always an excellent and involved teacher. He was shocked to hear what was going on! This in the other reason why I left HCPS.

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  46. I’d like to do a comparison: Let’s assume an average salary of teacher and a “middle class” person of $30,000 per year.

    Based on Ryan’s data. Teachers work 190 days, I’ll give them 9 hours per day for grading papers and such. Let’s just using 30K as an example, and compare teachers to a comparable private sector worker.

    $30,0000 / (190 days *9 hours) = $17.54 per hour for teachers

    now for a private employee:
    $30,000 / (240 days X 8 hours) = $15.62 per hour just about 2 bucks less per hour…

    Now this is totally unscientific and doesn’t factor in whether someone has benefits or not–but this is just one reason why the general public gets tired of teachers crying “poor mouth” all the time…

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    • Hey Brian,

      I think more information should be added to this.

      Teachers are required to have a Bachelor’s Degree, then, after a certain amount of time, a Master’s Degree, and then they are still required to further their education.
      In the United States, 87% of the population have graduated high school, 56% have some college, 39% have an Associate’s Degree, 30% have a Bachelor’s Degree, 7.6% a Master’s Degree, and 2.93% a Doctorate or professional degree.

      As can be seen, teachers are some of the more educated people in our society. So, instead of comparing the hours and salary of teachers to the the average person, I think they should be compared to those with equivalent education. In 2003, the average salary with a Bachelor’s Degree was 67K; a Master’s Degree, 78K. In Maryland, the average teacher salary is 54K; and I believe the average teacher has a Master’s Degree. So, it appears that the average teacher makes 24K less than the average person with an equivalent degree.

      Let’s further examine this.
      The average teacher works (your number) 1710 hours/year.
      The average person works (your number) 1920 hours/year.
      The average teacher would then make $31.57/hour.
      The average person would then make $40.625/hour.
      So, based on your numbers, per equivalent education, teachers make $9.055/hour less.

      Anyways, have a nice day.

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      • I appreciate your post, but I said it was simple and not scientific. I don’t feel like doing it but if you going to add more facst like the college education stuff-go ahead and add in whether or not those private sector jobs(that have higher base salaries) have the pensions and benefits the teachers do. Most private companies contribute nothing or very little to a persons retirement. We have to contribute to our retirement on our own and pay a higher percentage of our health care premiums.

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        • Hey Brian,

          Most private sector jobs do contribute to retirement, especially in the fields where skill and/or educational requirements are there. Most companies match some portion of what you contribute to your retirement, which can be quite a bit of money. As for the health care premiums, most pay more, I agree. However, the larger the company, more likely, the less a person will pay. There are many factors in play, you used the minimal amount to show (in my opinion) that teachers get paid more then those in the private sector. I gave more information and showed that teachers get paid less (significantly less, I might add). I also greatly disagree with your statement that most private companies don’t contribute to retirement. Most do, and even more so for those with the education of a teacher.

          Anyways, have a nice day.

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          • Paul MC, I appreciate the decorum you show in your posts. It’s alright for us to disagree. In the end for me, it all comes down to choice. In 1985, I was thinking about what I was going to major in; Marine biology sounded great. I love the water, microbes, fish and science as a whole. I did a little research and saw that Folks coming out of college with a Marine Biology degree didn’t make a lot of money. I chose not to become a marine biologist. If I did choose to become a marine biologist, knowing what I discovered about pay, at this point I should not be complaining about my pay. That’s all I trying to say. The public just gets tired of the complaining, that’s all I am hypothesizing.

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          • Hey Brian,

            I agree with you on this. I see one difference, however. I don’t see the teachers complaining over pay, per se; but complaining over the contract granting them step/cola increases not being honored.
            People see teachers complaining about not getting raises and many (in my opinion) start saying teachers are complaining about pay and how they signed up for a lower paying job, etc. To me, the entire issue is contractual, not pay. I guess there is a fine distinction there, but that is how I see it. Thank you for the very civil and intellectual discussion.

            Anyways, have a nice day.

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          • Paul: I have been around quite awhile and have heard pay gripes from SOME of my teacher friends almost since graduating from college. So this is not a new phenomenon related to the contract, just more vocal lately due that fabulous creation called the internet.
            It also a fallacy to compare pay levels based on level of college degrees. In some majors, the level of work required to earn the degree exceeds the much higher level degree in another major(ex. engineering or chemistry compared to sports management or early childhood).

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          • Hey jj,

            “I have been around quite awhile and have heard pay gripes from SOME of my teacher friends almost since graduating from college. So this is not a new phenomenon related to the contract, just more vocal lately due that fabulous creation called the internet.” – I don’t know too many people from any profession that don’t complain about their salaries. But again, the issue here is the contract, and the teachers complaining about that not being followed, not their pay in general.

            “It also a fallacy to compare pay levels based on level of college degrees. In some majors, the level of work required to earn the degree exceeds the much higher level degree in another major(ex. engineering or chemistry compared to sports management or early childhood).” – Then what would you propose their salary be compared to? I don’t think there is a perfect comparison, but I think comparing their salary to those with similar education is nearly as legit as you can get. You obviously disagree. As for your comment about types of degrees, obtaining an advanced degree, no matter the discipline, is an incredible feat. I disagree with your assertion that obtaining an engineering degree is somehow harder then obtaining a early child hood degree. They are different, but I would not say one is easier, per se, than the other. I know I would have an easier time obtaining one as opposed to the other, but there are many out there that would be the opposite.

            Anyways, have a nice day.

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  47. CDEV – good point. Most private sector jobs offer 401ks which are a lot different than pensions. 401ks go up and down with the market, but are generally good over the long haul, unless there is a crash like we have had over the last few years. When the market tanks, many companies stop contributing at all to 401ks, because it is basically throwing their money away. A pension like teachers have is a guaranteed benefit, regardless of the market, and as such is unsustainable in poor economic times. That is what Maryland is currently facing. The state has dumped tons of taxpayer dollars into these pensions, but the market tanked so a lot of the money was lost. Now, O’Malley has decided that rather than reform a system which is doomed to fail, he will just pass part of the pensions off as another unfunded mandate to the counties. Having a guaranteed, high paying pension is one of the benefits of being a public school teacher that you don’t get in most other jobs. It is another safety net, like tenure, that shields teachers from the realities that most are facing now in their jobs. I think it is very disheartening for the average person who is dealing with the realities of the current economy(lost wages, inflated costs, increased insurance premiums, retirement losses), and who is not getting any real tax relief, to see teachers who have all of these economic perks and safety nets still complain that they want more money from that same taxpayer. Then when those same teachers fight against actually having to earn their raises based on their performance (not student performance), it seems to indicate that their priority is not improving the education of students. Reforming the current pension system to a 401k in which both employer and employee contribute would good way to make the retirement system solvent once again.

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    • Jackie it is all in how you invest and age. If you are young the best time to buy in a 401k is NOW and invest big. You are buying into funds low and as the market recovers, which it will eventually, you will turn the modest 5K into 300% gains. The older person should be investing in safer funds and not risking the principal. Either way dollar cost averaging will result in a good retirement. It is not throughing money away to invest now it is the best thing to do!

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      • I should have specified- While the market was still volatile and going southward, and companies are not doing well, some decide that their capital is better spent elsewhere, as I have experienced. When the economy begins to stabilize and stocks are still low, then reinvestment is a good option. The point is, that 401ks are sustainable while defined benefit plans are not.

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        • defined benefit plans can be sustainable if the keeper does not carefully gaurd them or robs Peter to pay Paul with them then they have issues. re: the Baltimore City Fire Pension fund. The city raided it when the market was high and now faces a short fall that costs more then they borrowed to make ends meet!

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    • Additionally Jackie. The state borrowed from that fund or failed to put in that fund money it was obligated to do. This reulted in the shortfall. The teachers contribute the bulk of the money to the fund. Currently a teacher gives 7% to the fund 2% the state deposits in the general fund the other 5% goes to the pension. For a teacher making 50K that is 2,500 going to the pension and 1,000 going to the state to spend on things tax payer dollars should fund!!! the employer (HCPS) makes a contribution of 3% or 1,500 which the teacher pays taxes on just like it was income (It is called the state pick-up). When the teacher retires at age 59 or higher they get a defined benefit of…..30K. We actually have one of the worst employee pension systems in the country. I get Wisconson who has the same system except the teacher contributes nothing. Ehrlich passed a plan to fix the gap by 2018 and it will do so. The teacher tax passed last year speeds that up to 2015. These guys pay for their retirement and deserve it. It is earned money and they fund it and more now!

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      • In my research last year regarding Maryland Teacher Pensions, I interviewed an individual who is involved with determining the financial info. of the pension system. I was informed that taxpayers pay 16% of a teacher’s salary towards the pension system, not just the 3% that you mention. That is far above what anyone could expect to receive in most occupations.

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          • Since I spoke to an individual I don’t want to use that person’s name without permission. I did however, just call the state pension system. This is what I learned- The 7% that you contribute does go directly to the pension fund. The state did borrow 2% of that which is contracted within a certain time frame to be paid back (although I wouldn’t count on it). The state (ie. taxpayers) contribution varies depending on the # of people in the system. It can be anywhere from 12.5% to 21% of a teacher’s base salary. By the way, teacher’s tax is a misnomer. When my husband contributes to his own retirement, that is not a tax. Asking teachers to pay into their own fund which will benefit themselves is not a tax; it is a contribution to your own guaranteed fund.

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          • Jackie, that is just not true. The 2% is not a borrowed sum. At the end of the day, the pension fund will owe the entire pension to each employ. However, the 2% is going directly to the general fund now. The amount of our pensions, as proven recently, is not guaranteed. It is subject to change.

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          • Jackie it is a tax if 2% of my wifes salary is sent to the general fund and not the pension system. This is a tax. Plain and simple.

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          • Please see my comments below. The additional 2% will be repaid to the pension fund by the state as required by law, so when your wife cashes in on her pension, the full 7% that she contributed will be there. If you doubt this, call the state pension office and you can get it verified. Thus, it is not a tax. It is money that she will have available at retirement age. When the taxpayer is contributing between 12.5% and 21%, 7% does not seem like much to ask for an individual to contribute to his/her own fund.

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          • Jackie if you are talking about the shortfall then that is correct but you may want to look at the shortfall over the last few yearts and see that may be true but note that it is actually improving as it is supposed to under the plan Ehrlich passed and accelerated by the Omalley plan. 2 years ago that was 36% and it was as high as 43%. This was mostly due to the fact that the state and localities skipped some of their payments during the 90’s and now there is a huge gap. Additionally it was fully funded in the 80’s! This plan works if people do what they are supposed to with the money but the state is borrowing from it meet the balanced budget requirment and that is a problem

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          • Furthermore JAckie if they pay it back, which I doubt will happen. It will still be short all the growth it should have made in the pension fund. Or does the general fund plan on paying it back with about 15% interest?

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          • CDEV: The 2% was described to me as a loan agreement, which implies that it will be paid back with interest. I encourage you to call the state pension office yourself to get the details of the loan agreement. If the pension fund were truly improving as you say, then why has the state reported otherwise? Why is O’Malley, who is a liberal, proposing to pass half of the funding on to the counties, and why did he last year push for a 2% increase in employee contributions? Those don’t seem to be actions that a governor would take if the plan’s solvency was improving. You seem to fail to understand that pension plans are investment plans, like 401k plans. Just like so many seniors who lost significant savings in their retirement plans the market downturn through no fault of their own, even though they had faithfully invested throughout their lives, the Maryland Pension Fund also took a hit during this bad economy. The difference is that the state still has to pay out the same dividends when people retire, whether the money is there or not. If there are a lot of teachers retiring (cashing in on benefits)during a market crash, the fund has a very high probability of becoming insolvent. Local government does not currently contribute to the pensions as you suggested, only the state does. Regardless, the state should not have taken from the fund to meet its obligations, but you must realize as well that 66-75% of the fund contributions came from taxpayers. Anytime the state takes money from a designated fund and shifts it to another, it breaks the trust of the people that the government is supposed to be serving. The fact is, the current pension system needs to be reformed.

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          • Why?????In order to balance the budget on the back of the pension system. The 2% is not a loan.

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          • CDEV: It’s not a loan because you say it’s not? If anyone has any questions, call the state pension office and ask them. It is a loan. CDEV, feel free to call and argue with them. I don’t agree with the gov’t taking money from a designated fund and spending it elsewhere, but that being said, it is loan, even if you say it isn’t a thousand more times. As part of a defined benefit plan, you will receive your promised pay when you retire, even if the government has to rob from another fund to give it to you.

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          • Jackie, you clearly do not understand the pension system or our ” defined benefit”.

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          • A loan is money that is willingly given and paid back with interest at terms that are acceptable and agreeable to both sides. This is money that is TAKEN and supposed to go to one thing but is rediverted to another. It was not bargined or discussed with one half. The money if it is repayed will not have made the typical return of the fund and short changes it to balance the budget on the back of the fund. When my wife is giving 7% of her salary to the pension fund then 7% should be going to the pension fund not 2% going to the state and the rest the fund!

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          • @Ryan Burbrey

            I looked at your Facebook page and you should consider hiding it from public view.

            You are clearly an embarrassingly a pro-Obama, conservative-hating, liberal/progressive/social1st hell bent on promoting Noam Chomsky/OccupyWallStreet anti-capitalist, America-loathing ideology.

            For our sake I hope you fail in your mission to socialize Harford County and the country.

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          • Well, you learn something every day. I guess one of the times FB updated my privacy settings changed. However, nothing I is hatred. Some is political satire. I am a liberal and I am pro-Obama.

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          • @Ryan Burbrey

            You revere Noam Chomsky an avowed leftist who promotes Libertarian Social!sm which is rooted in Marx!st Commun!sm along with your support of Occupy Wall Street an Liberal Anarch!st-Social!st lunatic fringe group. How do you explain these affections and shared beliefs?

            You are hardly a mainstream liberal democrat.

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          • I revere Chomsky for his incredible intellect and incontrovertible contribution to our understanding of language and linguistics. I support Occupy Wall Street for their courage to stand up for their beliefs and their commitment to non-violent civil disobedience. If I am not mainstream then so be it.

            A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day. — ‘Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.’ — Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.—-Ralph Waldo Emerson—–

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          • @Ryan Burbrey

            You’re disingenuous!

            “The American People will take Social!sm, but they won’t take the label. I certainly proved it in the case of EPIC. Running on the Social!st ticket I got 60,000 votes, and running on the slogan to ‘End Poverty in California’ I got 879,000.” – Upton Sinclair

            “Many myths have been propagated about socialism. Contrary to right-wing claims, social!sm would not take away the personal private property of workers”, but “the private ownership of major industries, financial institutions, and other large corporations, and the excessive luxuries of the super-rich.” – The Commun!st Party USA

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          • Ryan, you have stated that I don’t understand the defined benefit pension system, yet you have failed to articulate what I have stated that is not factual.

            The current system might be tied to “professional development” but it is not tied to performance. Education and performance are two different animals. A person can be educated, but not perform well. A person can be a natural teacher, yet with less education than a veteran teacher. Any sensible person knows this. Acquiring my Master’s Degree was an easy task, but there was a lot more effort required to keep up with the daily responsibilities of teaching.

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          • Performance is relative. Likewise, the interpretation of performance is relative. Similarly, our “defined benefit” pension is and has always been subject to changes in legislation. It has changed may times. Thus, the “defined benefit” has changed. Hell, it has changed at least twice during my career.

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          • Performance is NOT relative. If it were, there would be no such things as “best practices”. There would be no such thing as schools of education to teach the craft. There would be no way to evaluate student teachers, to determine their readiness for the classroom. Performance in education is no more “relative” than most other occupations.

            You are right, the legislature has voted to increase teacher pensions on more than one occasion. However, as a defined benefit plan, the amount invested and promised is granted at the time of retirement, regardless of how the market has actually impacted the fund balance. that is what distinguishes a defined benefit plan from a 401k. It is also what makes this type of plan increasingly unsustainable.

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          • The legislature has voted to both increase and decrease pensions. Sometimes it has a grandfather clause sometimes it does not. Performance is relative since students starting points are relative as are their strengths and weaknesses. Similarly, teachers have strengths and weaknesses. It is virtually impossible to evaluate a teacher’s performance given a one year snapshot. Likewise, how would you evaluate a gym teacher’s performance or a shop teacher’s or a band director or any non-traditional class? Should teachers at alternative ed be held to exactly the same standard as everyone else or should GT teachers be held to a similar standard as those who teach a GE class? How would you evaluate special education teachers who teach children with multiple disabilities? As to “Best Practices”, they change over time and depend highly on the class which is being taught.

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          • Ryan, both links you cited acknowledge the need for teacher performance evaluations, and the first actually provides a framework for measuring performance: http://www.danielsongroup.org/article.aspx?page=frameworkforteaching. Both acknowledge as I have stated that student tests are not always the best indicators of teacher performance, as learning occurs on a continuum over many years and is influenced by many factors. The sources support what I have said rather than discredit it.

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  48. I am just relaying what individual from the state pension office said. If you don’t believe it you can call yourself. The 2% is scheduled to be paid back by the state and there are limitations to the time frame in which it must be paid back. Don’t worry, if they don’t have the money, they can just rob it from another designated fund.

    The percentage of employee contribution is not guaranteed, but the amount of payout is guaranteed, which is why it is classified as a defined benefit plan: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/definedbenefitpensionplan.asp#axzz1k2sBWqVc.

    How many jobs do you know where the employer contributes 2-3x what you pay to your own retirement fund? Maybe if you want higher salaries, you can use your pension as a bargaining tool. Agree to change it to a 401k, with the employer matching employee contributions up to a certain limit. Then the state will be able to transfer the additional % of salaries currently paid into the pension plan directly into teachers’ salaries. The retirement plan will then be sustainable, and teachers will have additional money to spend or invest how they choose.

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  49. How can anyone take Ryan Burbey serious. He is a servant of big government, liberal ideas and “Unionized Education”. His facebook posts regarding “republicans” are full of hatred. His constant whining is evidence that he is truly a “Bore”.

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  50. The Truth, is I attach my name to what I say. As to my FB. That is between me and my FB contacts. I can tell you this, Joe, you won’t be on my FB any more.

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  51. If anyone wants to understand where Ryan Burbey is really coming from. Please check out his facebook postings. You will see inside the twisted mind of a brainwashed hard core liberal. This guy is very hateful and supports anything related to big government and unionized education.

    As with many of these union thugs, he can’t see the forest through the trees.

    Burbey, it is about the kids, not your wallet. Guess on…

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    • THE TRUTH: Spoken with the unbiased, intellectually honest, reasoned voice of the tea party: if you don’t agree, call names and attack. This is how they show their “Christian” values.

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      • The hypocrisy of the Tea Party is nothing less than the grasping of Pharisees trying to claim they are upholding some pure standards when they merely want to hold on to their meager power in the face of a reality that has long since passed them by.

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        • The Occupy movement is the real deal not the Tea Party. We will take the fat cat Tea Partiers money and redistribute to the 99%.

          Long live OWS we are the 99%!

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  52. When an individual constantly demands more money but adamantly fights against accountability, that says enough about where that person’s priorities and values are. That certainly is not someone who is looking out for the kids.

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    • I don’t know that most teachers rail against accountability though, Jackie. Too often, “accountability” surfaces as a pre-packaged plan that teachers are informed they will be subjected to. More often than not, these “accountability” plans are seriously flawed, and are created without any input from teachers. Most of these “accountability” plans would end up protecting teachers with low standards (the “cineplex” teachers who grade inflate) and hurting teachers who demand accountability of their students.

      As I said, for many (I would say a strong majority) teachers, it isn’t accountability that we resist. It’s flawed accountability measures that won’t actually accomplish their goal. You and I managed to develop some ideas for actual, realistic accountability measures that would do what the reformers want and still allow teachers to do the job the right way. If you’ll notice, none of the ideas we came up with are being discussed on a local or national level. Until teachers are brought into the discussion in a meaningful way, these ideas will never be discussed/implemented.

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  53. Truth be told despite the political aspects of every thing or a political stand. Teachers are so very under appreciated. They do it for the love of the kids no other reason. I think a teachers jobs is as important as a doctor or anyone else. The lives of our children our molded by teachers. Teachers raise and educated our children for over 7.5 hours a day. Now with tv, games, texting , as well as your own employment how much time do you spend with your kids. Teachers play a big part of our children’s lives. And you can say well if it’s about the money you don’t care about the kids…. But it’s not true… It’s a vicious cycle people. Teachers are under paid trying to make ends meet….. They have feelings and bills to pay also…. If they can’t make ends meet….. They start to stress BECAUSE THEY ARE HUMAN TOO…. This in effect can affect the way a teacher teaches and performs their job.. This is not spreading hate this is a cry for help… And a cry for attention to a cause that is so easily dismissed. I have only substituted in the past but, for those that doubt the job difficulties of a teacher… You teach a class for 1 week with students from all walks of life different emotional issues and you tell me how much money teachers should earn..

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    • @SNDH Says – “It’s a vicious cycle people. Teachers are under paid trying to make ends meet….. They have feelings and bills to pay also…. If they can’t make ends meet….. They start to stress BECAUSE THEY ARE HUMAN TOO…. This in effect can affect the way a teacher teaches and performs their job.. This is not spreading hate this is a cry for help…”

      If we give them more money all will be better, right?

      Cry me a river!

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  55. With so much negativity by some in this discussion, I have come to the conclusion that they are nothing more than “cyber trolls”. Just by reading the comments, anyone can see who they are. Just ignore them…don’t bother to engage them in discussion.

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    • @Jeff- Cyber trolls, cyber bullies and just very angry people. However, many use multiple names so it hard to know exactly how many are on here. It does provide for some cheap entertainment.

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