From Harford Campaign for Liberty:
Liberty Rally in Annapolis
Tuesday, Oct. 18th
Noon to 2:00pm
Lawyers Mall in Annapolis
The word “tyranny” means oppression. It is indicative of an unjust, unrestrained exercise of power.
Americans have an amplified sense of the definition of this word. From its start, our county was defined by casting off the chains of despotism and embracing the ideas of Freedom and Liberty.
“Tyranny” is a strong word. We don’t use it lightly.
However, the Maryland General Assembly is returning on Monday, October 18 for a Special Ssession and if your legislators don’t hear from you, an unhealthy dose of tyranny is exactly what we will get.
Up first is the “legislative rorschach.”
A “rorschach” test is where an arbitrary inkblot is used to test the perceptions of the subject to examine a person’s personality traits and emotional functioning.
Unfortunately, the image above is no inkblot. In fact, this picture will have more influence over who gets elected to congress in 2012 than you do.
So what is this picture?
It is the theft of the voting rights of Marylanders.
You see, the Constitution requires that congressional boundaries be redrawn every 10 years to reflect changes in the population. In Maryland, the Governor must submit a redistricting plan to the state legislature.
Instead of holding together the voting power of local communities, Governor Martin O’Malley (D) is exploiting this process in an attempt to unseat Congressman Roscoe Bartlett (R).
This is a deliberate attempt at manipulating the voters of Maryland in a way that suits O’Malley and his gang of hacks. This inkblot is what could be Maryland’s new third congressional district.
We can all see where the governors interests are in stringing together the communities of Parkville, Owings Mills, Ellicott City, Laurel, Glen Burnie and Annapolis.
You can find the entire map of corruption here.
If stealing your vote wasn’t enough, O’Malley has another scheme to rob you of your political power.
The Founding Fathers wrote extensively on keeping authority in the hands of local governments and avoiding the centralization of power.
Inherent in hierarchy of local government is the freedom of different communities to tailor their government operations as they see fit.
If the residents of Frederick, Baltimore City or Wicomico disagree on taxes, speed cameras or school funding, they are each free to go their own way. Keeping the government local keeps power in the hands of the people.
But eventually, the power mongers in D.C. uncovered a loophole to dodge local government authority.
The federal gas tax was enacted in 1932. When the interstate highway system was completed in 1956, the gas tax did not go away.
The power mongers eventually realized that they could force federal regulations upon the states by tying the regulations to tax appropriations.
In other words, they tax you and force your state follow their regulations if you want your tax dollars back.
Using tax dollars for political blackmail has become the regulatory trick play used by politicians to control their constituents.
Imposing the same trick play, Governor O’Malley now wants to cheat county governments out of their zoning and land-use powers and transfer them to himself.
Under his new “Plan Maryland,” his administration alone would regulate where, when and how much residential/commercial development takes place in each county.
If this plan is enacted, the O’Malley administration will dictate where you can live, how big your home can be, how big your property can be and even what kind of waste disposal system your house can have.
Under O’Malley’s Plan Maryland, the state will only provide infrastructure (new schools, roads and sewers) in the “priority funding areas” that O’Malley’s office approves and to those which follow his regulatory guidelines.
Because new development is impossible without new infrastructure, O’Malley will effectively control every county’s future growth.
And what are the consequences?
Land outside O’Malley’s priority funding areas will plummet in value. Young people and newcomers seeking housing will be “redirected” to condos and apartments in Metropolitan areas such as Baltimore City, which is one of the plan’s chief goals.
The American dream, a single detached home, will be unaffordable. Our economic competitor, Virginia, will again gleefully point to Plan Maryland as yet another bit of anti-business insanity, and all those developer campaign contributions that once went to local politicians will now flow to the governor’s office.
This disaster sounds more like “Centrally Plan Maryland” to me.
If O’Malley’s plan goes into place, say good bye to local government and hello to taxation without representation.
And finally, O’Malley’s agenda isn’t complete without some sort of proposal for increasing taxes.
This month, the Blue Ribbon Commission on Maryland Transportation Funding recommended the following recommendations:
A 15-cent gas tax increase
A 50% increase in vehicle registration fees
Increasing the titling tax rate from 6% to 6.5%
Doubling the fee for emissions testing from $14 to $28
Increasing miscellaneous MVA fees
Increasing MTA fares
Indexing gas tax increases to inflation
“I think this is a really balanced and reasonable approach,” said Gus Bauman, the O’Malley appointed chairman of the commission.
For years, the Maryland transportation trust fund held billions of tax dollars that the state collected with the intent of sustaining roads and infrastructure.
In the last year, the O’Malley administration raided the fund to spend your transportation tax dollars on other projects.
That money is now gone. We are left with a trust fund that you just can’t trust and an O’Malley appointed commission that offers us “balanced approaches” that are anything but balanced.
Sometimes, the size of the attacks from the power mongers can seem daunting.
However, you have an opportunity to rally against these power grabs.
On October 18th, the Maryland Campaign for Liberty and other liberty-minded groups will hold a rally at Lawyers’ Mall in Annapolis from 12:00 PM to 2:00 PM.
Please join us to stand against what will undoubtedly be a full court press against the liberties of Marylanders.
Rally on Lawyers’ Mall
October 18th 12:00 PM to 2:00 PM
100 State Circle
Annapolis, MD 21401
The passion for liberty in the hearts an minds of Marylanders is our only bulwark against tyranny. Will you join us for this rally to let Annapolis know we will not tolerate these political games?
In Liberty,
Your Harford Campaign for Liberty Team
As President Bush once said, “elections have consequences.” The governor is our elected official. If you did not want him you were welcomed to elect a Republican. The people spoke and now the governor is carrying out their will. This is not tyranny, it is called a democracy.
No, you can’t elect who you want… that’s the entire point of the first half of the article.
Since when do Marylanders not go to the polls every 4 years and vote for governor and the person whom the majority of voters vote for becomes governor? That is democracy!
I am confused how 7 people do not like how we pick our governor by the will of the voters. The same will of the voters that will determine the fate of the dream act?
The party of power in the Socialist Republic of Maryland is the Democratic Party. Despite the fact that Democrats routinely beat Republicans in just four of the 24 major jurisdictions (BC and the 23 counties), the Democrats continue to hold majorities in both the State Senate and the State House due in large part to the voting districts that have been put into place. Years ago when I turned 18, I registered as a Democrat because, as my father explained to me at the time, if you didn’t you had no say in local politics. For the first several elections I voted in there were no viable Republican candidates for Harford County office, so had I registered as a Republican I would not have had a say in who was elected.
Incumbents of both parties regularly make decisions that are designed, first and foremost, to keep the status quo. Maryland is and always has been a prime example of that. I found it highly entertaining when the Democrats in Harford County got bitten by their own bug this past year when it came to the Redistricting Commission. When Democrats created the 15% rule, they were obviously trying to keep third-parties out of the mix.
Sometimes I wonder if we wouldn’t be better off with a European style 15-party coalition government.
The gubernatorial election is an at-large election. The article is not referencing at-large elections; it is referencing district-based elections.
Nonsense! We have a Constitutional Republic not a Democracy. Your ignorance of our founding ideals is astounding. We elect our representatives who are required to work within the framework of the constitution. Please explain how the current map or the new map make any sense given the lesson you have just learned. We do not operate by Mob rule (Democracy).
Our Founders warned us that an uneducated, morally bankrupt citizenry would result in Tyranny. They were correct.
your name gives us your I.Q.
Unfortunately, Maryland has a disproportionate number of welfare recipients, government employees and union members who are all on the take from Annapolis. These people overwhelm the private sector employees and vote in people who keep stealing money from the rest of us to funnel to them. I eagerly await the day when I retire so that I can move out of this crooked little state. It would be nice if the normal portions of the state could break away from the Baltimore/DC-Suburbs but that’s unlikely.
Mike Perrone Jr: In the United States the majority rules. That is why it is called a democracy.
Pavel314: You are an example of someone who votes against their own best interests. The real thieves of public money are those who are on corporate welfare. Why would you support a group of greedy tycoons who pay fewer taxes than you do? Is it fair that only 400 families have more wealth than 150,000,000 normal Americans? Sure, you can move to Mississippi or some other Red stats, but what happens when you need some government service that is not available?
Hey Proud,
“Mike Perrone Jr: In the United States the majority rules. That is why it is called a democracy.” – It is actually a representative republic.
“Pavel314: You are an example of someone who votes against their own best interests. The real thieves of public money are those who are on corporate welfare.” – While I do agree that corporate welfare is bad, the real thieves are ANYONE on welfare.
“Why would you support a group of greedy tycoons who pay fewer taxes than you do?” – To be fair, they typically pay more taxes, though a lower rate.
“Is it fair that only 400 families have more wealth than 150,000,000 normal Americans?” – Yes, that is fair. They earned the money in one way or another. Is it fair that these 400 families pay more in taxes than all the people in the US on welfare combined?
“Sure, you can move to Mississippi or some other Red stats, but what happens when you need some government service that is not available?” – I would hope that he they would go out and get a job and work to support themselves and their family.
Anyways, have a nice day.
Dude Paul: “While I do agree that corporate welfare is bad, the real thieves are ANYONE on welfare…I would hope that he they would go out and get a job and work to support themselves and their family.”
Haven’t you heard about the recession? While corporations wallow in their pork, Americans are out of work. Don’t you think that those that are out of work would like a job? I don’t think you would throw children out into the cold and let them starve.
I know you will have a nice day in your comfortable life.
Hey Dude(?) Proud,
“Haven’t you heard about the recession?” – Yep, it is in the news.
“While corporations wallow in their pork” – Yep, some do. I am against that.
“Americans are out of work.” – I see the help wanted ads still have postings.
“Don’t you think that those that are out of work would like a job?” – To be honest, no, not all of them. Some, yes. And those that want a job should have one. The government should provide a job to those that desire one. Of course, this job may not be the type of job they desire, but still, it is a job.
“I don’t think you would throw children out into the cold and let them starve.” – Nope, I would make their parents work or take the kids away from them. Of course, were I in charge, things would be much different.
“I know you will have a nice day in your comfortable life.” – Comfortable? I struggle, work full time and go to school. I struggle to build a future for myself and my family. I struggle so my life might some day be comfortable.
Anyways, have a nice day.
While I also find the behavior of the ultra rich utterly reprehensible – and hope there is some special corner of Hell set aside for them, I’m confused how supporting an ego maniacal, pompous, arrogant liberal governor in his quest to tax and fee me to the brink of ruin while turning my home into a sanctuary for illegals is somehow a desirable alternative…
The man is a taxing tyrant. A no good liberal who will suck the life out of those who work hard and will gerrymander to make sure that he and his cohorts never have to actually work. Barbara Mikulski will step down from the US Senate, O’malley will quit being governor and have the lieutenant governor appoint him to the open senate seats.
We need to remember the infamous words of a famous Harford Countian, sic semper tyrannous
You really know how to channel lunacy. Of course your best example of a famous former resident of Harford County would have to be John Wilkes Booth. It speaks volumes of your mindset. By the way, you are not paying enough for the services you demand from the state or federal government. While I’m sure you would like to make cuts with a cleaver (given your fascination with violence), the rest of us would probably object to you wielding the thing and urge you to put it down and go sit in the corner for a time out.
TOO MANY TAXES?
TOO MUCH GOVERNMENT?
Move to Samalia
This is to Pissed with the Government
And when you get to ‘Samalia’ the first thing they will do is to teach you the correct way to spell it.
Hey, Liberal Idiot, where is Samalia? Do you mean
Somalia? What a jerk.
Monster: Now that we have established the correct spelling of Somalia, care to think about the message. It should be heaven to you tea baggers: no government interference, strongest survives, etc.
My mother told me, “Son, politicians are like your underwear.” “You got to change them regular, if not, they can smell up the whole house.” I have tried to keep true to those words each election. I apply my philosophy to both sides with fairly equal dedication and enthusiasm.
PAVEL314: When one claims that 46% of American people pay no taxes, remember corporations are legally considered people. I did a Google search for corporate welfare and found: “In America today, the biggest recipients of handouts are not poor people: they’re corporations. Federal subsidies to private businesses cost taxpayers $87 billion per year. Who are the biggest recipients of Corporate Welfare? Big Oil, Ethanol/Corn Growers, Defense Industry, Agribusiness, Banks.” “Eighty-two of the 275 companies, almost a third of the total, paid zero or less in federal income taxes in at least one year from 2001 to 2003. In the years they paid no income tax, these companies earned $102 billion in pretax U.S. profits. But instead of paying $35.6 billion in income taxes as the statutory 35 percent corporate tax rate seems to require, these companies generated so many excess tax breaks that they received outright tax rebate checks from the U.S. Treasury, totaling $12.6 billion (that is we paid them).” This does not even include the companies who hide their profits off shore. But I guess that is fine with you?
PAUL: “The government should provide a job to those that desire one.” I thought you were against “socialism”? Certainly this would increase government spending.
“I would make their parents work or take the kids away from them.” Of course this would not cost much, would it? Orphanages have traditionally been so good for children. “Please, sir, can I have some more?”
“I struggle, work full time and go to school.” This is the definition of comfortable Paul. You have a job, an education and a great family. What more do you want?
It really is sad to see so many people in favor of more taxes and more government control. have you forgotten your history lessons from grade school? Taxation (excessive and w/o representation) and an out of control government (the king of england) are the 2 main reasons that this country exists! Americans have become so placated by the nanny state that they are now begging for more. Every law, regulation, or tax that Owe-Malley passes is one more freedom being taken away from us and our children. Maryland currently ranks 49th in personal freedom, by the way.
I agree, corporate tax loopholes need to be eliminated. But should we fault the corporations who are simply taking advantage of the opportunities handed them, or blame the government that uses those loopholes and exemptions to buy their donations and votes?
Proud: Who are you to decide what is ‘fair’ as far as personal income is concerned? I’d much rather live life knowing that I have the opportunity to one day be one of those 400 families than settle for knowing that mediocre is the best the government will allow me to be.
True, some are born into wealth. But most have worked hard at what they do, enhancing natural talents, and pushing themselves on a daily basis. Why should they be punished (taxed) for their hard work?
I eagerly await your reply.
Jeffery Beck
@jtownejeff
I do believe we should fault corporations who take advantage of the tax loopholes and shady accounting systems available to them. We should also hold politicians accountable for allowing it to go on because standing up the corporations would put large donations at risk. This happens on both sides of political fence. Common Cause has it right.
Trust me JtJ, you will never be one of the 400. Not even close, but if the dream of that lets you sleep at night, whatever. No government will ever be able to keep you mediocre, only you yourself can do that by defining yourself only by your financial worth. If you are, as you have claimed in prior posts, a hard working father of 6, who takes parenting seriously and teaches his children the difference between right and wrong, you are to be respected and admired, no matter what your income. And you are far richer than most in ways that go far beyond money if your family is healthy and happy.
Rich people are not punished for their hard work. They should at least be taxed at the same rate I am. Particularly if they are getting, or have gotten, rich off of the hard work of a labor pool that is barely getting by.
Let’s increase the tax rate on all these greedy corporations and rich dudes to 99%. That’ll teach them about how greedy bastards get it in the end. What do you mean they all closed their doors and fired all their people? That’s not fair. What are those greedy bastards doing, relocating to the Bahamas? We need the taxes that their income provides. How come the price on everything I buy went up by about 60%? Those greedy corporations are supposed to eat those tax increases, not pass them on to me. It’s just not fair. Let’s declare martial law and make them operate at gun point! WA WA WA
Amen. If not for them, then their children. That is how this country was built and that is the incentive for working hard and risk taking. It is risk takers who produce great companies and employment, and wealth for this entire nation. If profit cannot be made or is restricted, what incentive is there?
Billy jack- how can you fault corporations who operate within the law? We agree that the law, the tax code, should be fixed, but that is not up to the corporations. And who are you to say that no matter how hard I try at whatever I do, that I won’t make it big one day? My comment about govt regulated mediocraty was meant in the sense that every new tax and entitlement and social program is simply a redistribution of wealth. Those in power right now seek equality of outcome, rather than eqaulity of rights and opportunity, of which the founders spoke. The only way to have an equal outcome is to not only bring the bottom up, but also must bring the top down, thus resulting in a mediocre middle.
I thank you for your admiration and respect of my valuation of family. I am a hard working father of 6 trying to make sure my kids have a better life than me. But as long as the government pushes forward with the nanny state and entitlements, the wealth that I, and my children, work hard for, will just be taxed awayfrom us and given to those who have come to rely on the government for sustinance. And that I find reprehensible.
Jeffery Beck
@jtownejeff
@Billy Jack “Rich people are not punished for their hard work. They should at least be taxed at the same rate I am.”
What federal income tax rate do you pay? And remember 47% of people pay no federal income tax.
“Particularly if they are getting, or have gotten, rich off of the hard work of a labor pool that is barely getting by.”
These employers do pay wages for the labor of their employees and employees are free to offer their labor to the highest bidder.
@Billy Jack “Rich people are not punished for their hard work. They should at least be taxed at the same rate I am.”
What federal income tax rate do you pay? And remember 47% of people pay no federal income tax.
“Particularly if they are getting, or have gotten, rich off of the hard work of a labor pool that is barely getting by.”
These employers do pay wages for the labor of their employees and employees are free to offer their labor to the highest bidder.
P.
I have paid around 31% in the past few years. I live well, am very blessed, and do not begrudge that amount. I consider myself a patriot, am active in my community, and contribute generously to charity. I strongly believe that the entitlements many consider the cause of the underclass have kept it from growing much larger. I also believe no child should go hungry or be cold because because his or her parents do not provide, for whatever reason.
Removing kids from poor parents is not the answer. Foster care is very very expensive for this state and the outcomes for children in foster care is poor. Adoptions in MD are hard to come by for older or special needs children, sibling groups, and, saddest of all, children of color.
And, Porter, if you think the free market regulates itself appropriately and well, please explain that to those who are facing their last unemployment check, have applied for many many jobs, and are at their wit’s end.
@Billy Jack
2010 Marginal Federal Tax Rate for Married Filing Jointly
28% on income $137,301 – $209,250
33% on income $209,251 – $373,650
Congratulations you make a nice living and if you want at any time you can donate additional money to the US government.
I will match your voluntary contributions to reducing our federal debt. I’m sure we can find other people who will also appreciate your tireless and selfless regard for the greater good.
Sorry I am one of the unemployed not getting a check and “at their wit’s end” who can’t afford to your altruism and have “tireless and selfless regard for the greater good”.
I have to pay my mortgage and bills. I believe increasing taxes on the 53% and corporations will retard growth and hurt the US economy.
increasing income taxes not taxes. Se everyone pays taxes in some form on 53% pay income taxes.
Anyone who feels like they should pay more in taxes is always welcome to send in a little extra to Washington, DC or to Annapolis. I encouraged the local Democratic Club to contribute heavily to FCCAU when that worthy organization sent a speaker to the Club’s monthly meeting. That fell on to deaf ears. Seems like the Dem/libs only want to help the needy with my money, not their own.
Proud to be Liberal, my challenge still stands to compare percentage amounts of income given to charities with you. Or are you all talk?
The Democratic Club to which you are referring DID contribute to the FCCAU; you should get your facts correct before spreading your uninformed dogma to the public…
You call that piddling little amount a CONTRIBUTION? I would call it an insult. If that’s all the party of the people who are ultra concerned with the less fortunate can drum up there must not have been anyone there. Oh, I get it, the Democrats didn’t have any money left over after they paid their outrageous Federal and State taxes and their newly increased tolls and the higher sales tax and on and on and on. I apologize. My mistake. I confused liberal with generous.
and you know this because…
Folks, The tax loopholes are the way that our elected officials secure donations to their re-election campaigns. They give tax loopholes and other forms of favorable treatment to corporations to get donations from them and they offer tax loopholes to us to get donations from us. That is how it works today. I’m not saying it is right and I am not saying there is not a better way. But remember that the few people who proposed a flat tax rate for everyone were soundly rejected by Democrats and Republicans alike.
Oh, and by the way, speaking of tax loopholes and favored treatment of corporations, let’s not forget the Solyandra scandal (half a billion dollars loaned by the current Democratic administration to Solyndra and flushed down the toilet)and another nearly half a billion dollar loan to Tesla, maker of luxury automobiles whose minimum price tag is over $100K. Tesla is owned and financed by big donors to the Democratic Party and to Barack Obama’s 2008 presidential campaign. Tesla’s principal owner is Elon Musk who has an estimated personal wealth of $672 million. That’s about a billion dolars they could have been using for jobs.
Now can you say something nice about Tesla? How the new car they are bringing out is going to be a sedan model priced at about $50,000. How about something nice about Elon Musk – and SpaceX. You know, builder of the Falcon 9 and the Dragon Capsule that will be used to ferry cargo to the International Space Station and later carry a crew on commercial spaceflights? Oh I’m sorry… is that kind of business practice not worthy of mentioning when you decide to bash the current administration or anyone else for being technologically forward? Do you benefit from the technological developments introduced by other people? Could we retroactively take away your Polio Vaccine?
David,
How does loaning Tesla half a billion dollars to develop a car that will sell for $50K benefit the poor and needy? Not sure I see the connection.
Perhaps we have a big backlog of demand for a $50K car among the folks on welfare and food assistance, etc. We talk about those folks needing jobs and better health care and better education and more healthy food. Have we now added a $50K car to the list?
Or is there just maybe a little bit of ‘if you big time financially support getting the lib/Dems elected and re-elected then the government will shower money and other benefits on you’. Oh, and no, I am not naive, I know it works that way for Republicans as well. It just kind of irritates me that the lib/Dems are so intellectually dishonest pretending to really help all of those less fortunate but not really doing it. Their rich friends are first in line. Baloney. They are huge hypocrites.
O’Malley raises the sales tax? One of the most regressive taxes around. Who gets hurt most? The poor and needy. Next tax increase is the gas tax. Proposed increase to make Maryland the highest gas tax state in the nation. Regressive? You betcha. Toll increase? Well since they took the money they collected that should have been used for highways and bridges and used it for something else they liked better, now the have to replace it. Who gets hurt? Working guy, of course.
I understand why they do what they do. My real problem is that they think we are all so stupid as to not be able to see their real motives. As our friend Orwell wrote “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.” Lib/dem politicians are the ‘more equal animals’.
jon schaffer: If you are an example of an educated, moral citizen we are in deep trouble. What you are describing is a plutocracy/oligarchy. A democracy is not “mob rule.” In this country, thank God, everyone’s vote counts exactly the same. That is why I spend so much time registering voters. I particularly go for the homeless voters. Your problem is that white males no longer rule. It’s a shame you didn’t live a hundred years ago.
Jtownejeff: Who pays to educate your six children? Who provides good roads so you get to work? Who protects you from fire and violence? That is what taxes pay for.
Porter you said “And remember 47% of people pay no federal income tax.” I looked this up and it is a myth. “According to the Times, which took a closer look at the data from the Tax Policy Center, ‘The stimulus programs of the last two years [under the Bush and Obama administrations] have increased the number of households that receive enough of a tax credit to wipe out their federal income tax liability … but income taxes aren’t the only kind of federal taxes that people pay.’ There are payroll (Social Security and Medicare) taxes, capital gains taxes, as well as state and local taxes. In fact ‘about three-quarters of all American households pay more in payroll taxes … than in income taxes.’ As far as the federal government is concerned, whether they are income taxes or payroll taxes, it is a distinction rather than a difference… all receipts from taxpayers are deposited into the general fund from which disbursements are made to pay the government’s bills… When measuring ‘tax units with zero or negative individual income tax,’ the percent of all ‘tax units’ is 46.9 percent. But when looking at ‘tax units with zero or negative income and payroll tax’ is 13.4 percent.” And remember corporations who pay no taxes are included.
Hey Proud,
“jon schaffer: If you are an example of an educated, moral citizen we are in deep trouble. What you are describing is a plutocracy/oligarchy. A democracy is not “mob rule.” In this country, thank God, everyone’s vote counts exactly the same. That is why I spend so much time registering voters. I particularly go for the homeless voters. Your problem is that white males no longer rule. It’s a shame you didn’t live a hundred years ago.” – We live in a representative republic or representative democracy, not a pure democracy. As for your comment about white males ruling and living 100 years ago, was that really necessary for the debate? What you just did was commit a couple logic fallacies. Appealing to emotion and the personal attack.
“Jtownejeff: Who pays to educate your six children? Who provides good roads so you get to work? Who protects you from fire and violence? That is what taxes pay for.” – Taxes, so, the people/businesses that pay taxes do.
“Porter you said “And remember 47% of people pay no federal income tax.” I looked this up and it is a myth. “According to the Times, which took a closer look at the data from the Tax Policy Center, ‘The stimulus programs of the last two years [under the Bush and Obama administrations] have increased the number of households that receive enough of a tax credit to wipe out their federal income tax liability … but income taxes aren’t the only kind of federal taxes that people pay.’ There are payroll (Social Security and Medicare) taxes, capital gains taxes, as well as state and local taxes. In fact ‘about three-quarters of all American households pay more in payroll taxes … than in income taxes.’ As far as the federal government is concerned, whether they are income taxes or payroll taxes, it is a distinction rather than a difference… all receipts from taxpayers are deposited into the general fund from which disbursements are made to pay the government’s bills… When measuring ‘tax units with zero or negative individual income tax,’ the percent of all ‘tax units’ is 46.9 percent. But when looking at ‘tax units with zero or negative income and payroll tax’ is 13.4 percent.” And remember corporations who pay no taxes are included.” – I read the Times article. I You really left out quite a bit of information. Here is an excerpt from CNN Money. ‘In 2009, roughly 47% of households, or 71 million, will not owe any federal income tax, according to estimates by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.’ I believe this is what everyone is talking about. Also, lets not forget the people that don’t work at all and accept government assistance.
Anyways, have a nice day.
If you don’t pay federal income tax you aren’t paying federal income taxes. FICA/Medicare payroll taxes are not income taxes.
yes but Paul’s point is that the 47% number which applies to Income tax gets changed frequently to 47% of americans pay no taxes. I actually heard Hannity say this yesterday and heard Rush say it in his replay over the weekend. Levine says it all the time. They have dropped the distinction. WHen one caller to levine attempted to point out the very distinction he was quickly yelled at and hung up on!
Federal incomes taxes are based on adjusted gross income, while Social Security/Medicare are payroll withholding that everyone pays the same rate and in the case of Social Security (FICA) your employer matches or if you are self-employed you pay both portions.
47# of people are not paying federal income tax and it damages our society not having such a great number of people receiving government services and not paying for any of it.
OK here is the flaw. You say “recieving govt services and not paying for any of it” Social Security Money gets reappropriated to pay for the services so in essence they did. Medicare pays for medicare and medicaid (one of those services) so they did. Secondly tarriffs and other corporate taxes get passed to consumers so in essence when they buy things they pay for services. When they buy gas and pay gas taxes which pay for the services they pay for them. When the service is provided by a state or local govt and they pay sales tax they pay for the services! So perpetuating the myth that 47% opf people do not pay for services is a lie. At best the people saying it are lieing and at worst they are ignorant!
47% do not pay federal income tax. The 47% are not contributing federal income tax.
The most powerful lie is 50% true. Any good extremist of any cloth knows this to be true.
Of course, typical liberal behavior.
First you throw out unfounded fantasies about oppression.
Then you claim you know what is best for everyone, all the while pointing the finger of arrogance at everyone but the person that it should be pointed at, which is yourself.
And finally you complete the trifecta by crying about race and racial injustice.
Honestly, if you could take a step back from ignorance that has been bred into you, you would be appalled. You are all about control and this country is (was) all about freedom. As much as you liberals want it to be under your control, as you think you know best, you do not. You know what is best for you, and that’s where your control should end. You don’t know what’s best for anyone else.
Billy Jack – to say that most who are rich are simply born into it is an utter fallacy. It is true that a few are born into wealthy families and inherit said wealth on no actual merit of their own (Paris Hilton), but the vast majority are either uniquely talented or have worked and studied very hard, or both. Professional athletes, for example, are born with a natural talent in their sport that sets them apart, but if they don’t work hard and train, someone better will come along and replace them. The same is true of a VP of marketing for a big company. One is likely blessed with a natural ability to persuade people, but if they don’t study and hone their skills, some one better will get that job. When our Founders declared that “all men were created equal”, they certainly did not mean with equal talents and abilities. They meant equal in the eyes of God and equal before the law. And no matter what, there is ALWAYS somebody better than each of us at SOMETHING.
Jon Schaffer – While you are correct that we live in a republic, it is a Democratic Republic. A true democracy, in a sense, is kind of like mob rule, but i don’t think that’s a fair statement. I liken a democracy, in it’s simplest form, to 2 wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
Proud – My tax dollars pay for the teachers who educate my children, and when they reach high school (maybe sooner) they will be in Private schools. The roads, obviously, are paid for with my tax dollars, as are the police. and the vast majority (if not all) of the firefighters in Harford County are on a volunteer basis, however, they are eligible for a pension after a certain number of years served. But you are creating, or attempting to create, a false choice. Obviously I know that taxes are needed for a variety of services from the government on which WE ALL rely. I’ve never said that taxes are evil, or even anything closely resembling that sentiment. The issue I have is that liberals and progressives desire to redistribute wealth from those of us who work hard to earn a good paycheck, or take a risk and start a business and grow it to a point of profitability, and give it to folks who don’t share our work ethic, nor our desire to succeed. And before you respond, I know that not everyone who receives government assistance is leach; but a large majority of them are. And I can speak from personal experience with people like that. My oldest son has a friend with 2 out-of-work parents who still find a way to make “side money”, collect unemployment, and live more luxuriously than I do. Both parents are able to work, they were employed when I met them, but as long as unemployment gets extended, they have no desire to EARN a check.
Which goes back to my previous comment about the government, state and federal, fostering a society of sheep dependent upon the government to lead them to pastures and streams. And the politicians who defend those so-called ‘social programs’ are the ones that the sheep vote for. Why would they bite the hand that feeds them? Meanwhile, Proud is out there doing their bidding getting social delinquents registered to vote.
And on a side note, all of you need the lay off the insults and snide remarks; the only ones who look foolish are the ones using them.
Jeffery Beck
@jtownejeff
JtowneJeff, I commend you for having the courage to put your email address. I respect that. Secondly, the example of the couple drawing unemployment, and aren’t overly anxious to find another job, is the exact reason that socialism doesn’t motivate people to work. My father was unemployed in 1954 and was willing to take any job to put food on the table. Today, we have an artificial system in which the unemployed will take jobs similar to what they have had in the past. Our young folks are used to the standard of living their parents have had, and it’s not there any more. Many think that a college education entitles them to a certain wealth- wrong again. Most important, too many Americans think someone owes them something.
Obama has used failed Keynesian economic tactics through borrowed stimulus spending. It didn’t work, we knew it wouldn’t work and Obama’s plan has failed.
The data show otherwise; the stimulus most certainly did work – but did not work well enough because it was not big enough. It is VERY hard to find a legitimate educated economist that is not out there screaming for more stimulus. The biggest lesson from the Great Depression is that a very large stimulus package is needed to end such deep recessions. That final stimulus package was provided by a super-massive government jobs program (we called it WWII); our recession is not that large and thus thankfully a war is not needed this time, but it is VERY clear that a larger stimulus package is what this country does need, and it is only the political shortcomings of citizens that have been uninformed and mislead by those that take excessive corporate campaign donations that is holding this country in recession…
CDEV – What of all the folks who do not work and are therefore not paying income tax, FICA, state and local tax, Medicare/-Aid tax, etc.,? Those people still collect welfare, food stamps, housing assistance, medicaid, etc., and contribute ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the tax system. There are plenty of them out there, too; they are not the minority of government aid recipients.
SS contributions are *supposed to be* put into a trust fund, so that when the folks who work thier whole lives and contribute to the system for 40 years retire, there is something for them. That trust fund is nothing more than IOU’s now. The plan for SS was fundamentally flawed from the beginning, and FDR knew it. But he sold it to the citizens as ‘insurance’ and they bought it. SS was made available to folk retiring at age 65 back when it went into effect. Want to know what the average life expectancy was back then? You guessed it: 65! Do you see the problem now?
I for one know that SS will not have anything to offer me when I reach retirement age, and have taken steps to prepare for my own retirement. That’s called personal responsibility and accountability, and that is what is missing from so many in this country. Until folks learn how to care for themselves and each other without the nanny state’s help, America will continue to be bankrupt, financially and morally.
Jtowne Jeff, They pay taxes in some form. If they buy things they pay sales taxes. Gas an added tax. Alcohol or cigarettes have a tax. Taxes passed down by the maker of goods to the consumer. No one actually buys nothing. So all people contribute some how. SOme contribute more because they have more, but all pay.
Any way you put it 47% of people pay no federal income tax. There is no federal sales tax, social security/Medicare contributions pay for the individual’s future benefits and we all pay excise taxes on fuel.
So it’s okay for 53% to pay the entire federal tax burden and you want them to pay more.
Social Security and Medicare do not do what you say. There is no “lock box”! Social Security funds subsidize our national debt and make up part of it!
An individuals benefits are calculated by their contributions, contributions go into the general fund and there is a corresponding liability for money owed to current and future recipients.
The general fund pays the operating costs of the US government and what the government can’t pay from the general fund they borrow.
And to keep things on track 47% of people still pay no federal income tax.
Yes but to say they pay no taxes at all is absurd. That is how this stat gets misrepresented to people. Did you know Frank McCourt Jr is part of the 47%!!!
Again 47% of people pay no federal income tax.
SO now that you differentiate that let us look at who those people are. Most would have us believe this 47% are simply poor leaches living off the government dole. The new estimate for 2011 is 46% (so 1 % more pay federal income taxes).
According to Kevin Drum
23% are poor
the other half….
10% are elderly and living off social security, which is exempt from income tax (perhaps those who believe the 46% should pick up it’s share should change that)
13% pay nothing due to the ability to take advantage of many tax credits (7% of them exclusive to children)
Blaise, I did not realize it until now but this sentence from you is why I am minicning words
“So it’s okay for 53% to pay the entire federal tax burden and you want them to pay more.”
the 53% Does not shoulder the entire federal tax burden. McCourt did not pay income taxes but he paid a crap load of payroll taxes and employer taxes last year. More so then you paid in income taxes!!!! So he could say that he is helping pay your share. You are perpetuating the myth that this 47% percent pays nothing and that is a flat out lie.
Hey Cdev,
“Blaise, I did not realize it until now but this sentence from you is why I am minicning words” – So, you didn’t know why you wrote something until you could find something that suited your viewpoint?
Anyways, have a nice day.
No…..I did not realize that staring me in my face was an example of someone who has blatently misunderstood the statistic due to the lack of distinction being used!
Hey Cdev,
“No…..I did not realize that staring me in my face was an example of someone who has blatently misunderstood the statistic due to the lack of distinction being used!” – That doesn’t make much sense. Blaise has stated the statistic the correct way more than once. In your statement to which I first replied, Blaise’s statement “So it’s okay for 53% to pay the entire federal tax burden and you want them to pay more.” is easily understood (at least by me, and I would suspect by most except those that choose not to) to mean that the 53% are the ones that pay the federal income tax and you want them to pay more into the federal income tax. I don’t think Blaise is the one who blatantly misunderstood anything. It seems to me you are intentionally misunderstanding things.
Anyways, have a nice day.
See it is not understood. Blaise and similar likeminded people want to lead people to believe that the 53% pay for everything. That is in fact what his statement said. It said 53% pay the ENTIRE federal tax burden. That is a lie! This is why words are important!
Furthermore this is a direct quote from Sean Hannity
“50% of american housholds no longer pay taxes. What does that mean for America if you have a voting electorate thats not paying ANY (emphasis by speaker)taxes?”
He seems to think that is what that means.
If you want to loosely use no taxes then use the accurate percentage which is 14% of Americans pay no taxes
“Furthermore this is a direct quote from Sean Hannity”. Ah yes Fair and balanced reporting.
Hey Cdev,
“See it is not understood. Blaise and similar likeminded people want to lead people to believe that the 53% pay for everything. That is in fact what his statement said. It said 53% pay the ENTIRE federal tax burden. That is a lie! This is why words are important!” – To be fair, if you take into account everything he said then most people, those who weren’t being obtuse, would be able to comprehend what he was saying. You knew what he was saying, you are an intelligent person, you just choose to ignore his points and focus one the semantics.
“Furthermore this is a direct quote from Sean Hannity” – I thought we were talking about what Blaise said. Why bring up Hannity?
““50% of american housholds no longer pay taxes. What does that mean for America if you have a voting electorate thats not paying ANY (emphasis by speaker)taxes?”
He seems to think that is what that means.” – Actually, he is in the business of sensational journalism. I am pretty sure Hannity knows the truth but he, like the others in his profession, including others at Fox and those at MSNBC, don’t actually focus on the complete truths, they want to sell themselves to the sheeples out there.
“If you want to loosely use no taxes then use the accurate percentage which is 14% of Americans pay no taxes” – What do you mean by pay no taxes? 14% of Americans never bought anything? No sales tax? What do you mean by pay no taxes? You said it yourself, “They pay taxes in some form. If they buy things they pay sales taxes. Gas an added tax. Alcohol or cigarettes have a tax. Taxes passed down by the maker of goods to the consumer. No one actually buys nothing” so, did you actually mean that or am I just being obtuse like you were? Hmmm…
Anyways, have a nice day.
Paul,
I included the Hannity quote because Hannity is an educated person and that is what he thinks that means. Furthermore he esposes that meaning to others. BTW the quote was from 2010 when the stat first came out and that is what he said and then had Steele buying it hook line and sinker. The same report actually says 14% of Americans pay no taxes at all and that is true. They pay no taxes state or federal.
Hey Cdev,
“I included the Hannity quote because Hannity is an educated person and that is what he thinks that means. Furthermore he esposes that meaning to others.” – Hannity is a political hack as are most others on Fox and MSNBC. They consistently use half-truths to get the sheeples to follow them. I don’t think Blaise, the topic of our little conversation, believes what Hannity said was the truth.
“BTW the quote was from 2010 when the stat first came out and that is what he said and then had Steele buying it hook line and sinker.” – I don’t know if Steele bought it or not.
“The same report actually says 14% of Americans pay no taxes at all and that is true. They pay no taxes state or federal.” Do they buy things? If they do, they pay taxes. Though, they don’t pay income taxes, right?
Anyways, have a nice day.
Paul,
Hannity may be a hack who uses half truths to sensationalize but the fact of the matter is playing fast and loose with words gets people to truly believe that the misrepresentation is the truth. Even if that is not your intent by not being clear about it you contribute to it. Some sheep read this place to.
Steele was the person Hannity was speaking to in that piece and if he did not take it in the same sense he was not attempting to correct it. He continued with the ruse. I think we can agree Steele is not a hack.
The 14% stat came from the same tax report the 47% number came from. Additionally worth noting is that the 47% is for 2009 and is up from 38% the year before because of the continuation of the Bush Tax cuts, the Making Work COunt tax credit and non-taxable unemployment benefits that year. Additionally it points out the EITC is factored into the bill for taxes and so infact some of the 47% recieved an EITC which offset income taxes owed.
@Cdev – You are an enabler.
You provide cover for liberals, progressives, socialists and Marxists. You are pathetic and self-loathing. You and/or your spouse must be on the government teat defending your recession proof livelihood.
Your are the worst kind of loser.
Paul
Cdev is the Rodney king of the Dagger.
I see now we resort to name calling, how very big of you. Yes my wife is a teacher she provides a service for taxpayers and is compensated for such serviceat a set rate. She earns her salary and there is no need to be jealous because her skills are still in demand regardless of the economic situation. In fact she informs me that if you are out of work and willing to go to college at the same time there are actually openings for special educators at her school. I work for an educational institute which provides services to kids with severe special needs. The types of kids that you would never want in a regular classroom. I do well at my job and therfore seem to be kept employed.
Again nice to see you must resort to rhetoric and name calling.
Cdev: Please be aware that Paul must always have the last word and is loathed to admit anyone’s, but his, argument has merit. Arguing with him is pouring water into a rat hole.
Hey Cdev,
Just so you know, the person that responded with the personal insults to you was not me. I sign my name as “Paul Mc”, not simply “Paul”. I used to be “Paul”, but realized there was another so I changed my name to “Paul Mc”. I try to not use personal attacks and apologize if I did. The person that called you the enabler was not me.
As for teachers, my wife is a teacher and I support teaches and the teachers union (I support the government unions and I am against private unions and we could discuss the reasons why later if you like). She also works with special needs kids.
Proud to be Liberal,
I don’t have to have the last word. I enjoy debating. If you don’t wish for me to respond to your points any more, please let me know and I won’t. I have also admitted a number of times other’s arguments have merit, even yours. Just because they have merit does not mean I agree with them, however. You also seem to desire having the last word. And you seem to wish to discuss things with me or you would not bring up my name or throw insults at me.
Anyways, have a nice day.
PAUL Mc: I guess I made the same mistake in confusing you with Paul. Sorry.
Ditto Paul MC. I was unaware there was a different Paul. It took me by suprise becausewe where having such a civil discourse. Although I recolect a few posts that I did not make but people placed my handle in the box.
Hey Proud and Cdev,
No worries. I I do enjoy debating with you both as we tend to have intellectual discourse. I wish Dagger required people to register their names here so people couldn’t usurp them and there would be no confusion. I think it is far to easy for someone to come on here and log in with someone elses name just to creat havoc.
Anyways, have a nice day to you both.
Paul Mc: If you register as a user, then no one else can log in with your name.
Brian,
Thank you very much. I just registered.
Anyways, have a nice day.
CDEV – Paying a state sales tax or a state “sin tax” on things like beer and tobacco does not go towards the federal tax base. The only federal tax you mentioned was the federal gas tax, and in maryland we pay a state gas tax of 23.5 cents on top of that. But the federal gas tax is not an income tax; it is an expense tax. and the revenue collected from the fed gas tax is *supposed* to be used for federal infrastucture, not just the general fund and discretionary spending.
The bottom line is that my point was correct: folks that don’t work and collect unemployment, food stamps, and other ‘entitlements’ are getting my tax dollars and are not doing a damn thing to earn it, or even to pay it back.
God bless,
Jeffery Beck
@jtownejeff
Jeff the taxes paid to the state go to provide some of these “free” services some are bemoaning. Furthermore the characterization that the people you describe represent 47% of the population and they pay NO taxes, which is what get’s stated, is wrong. They pay no federal income tax. They do pay taxes and they do contribute. As I said not as much as others but they make far less. Frank McCourt for example paid no income taxes. But would we argue he is not a tax payer?
I’m sorry, but this seems like a silly argument. Saying someone doesn’t pay taxes implies they don’t pay income taxes… not that they pay for food, clothing, gas etc. at a magically tax free reduced rate… State that 47% don’t pay taxes and I think most reasonable people will understand the concept. If it’s that important I’m sure everyone will be willing to include the words Federal and income from now on.
You may think it is semantics but it is indeed not. As I said Frank McCourt pays no federal income taxes but I will bet dollars to donoughts he would be upset if you told him he paid no taxes. Repeating a lie over and over again does not make it true. It has been said so much Anderson Cooper said it the other night.
John Paulson is part of that group. For 2 of Donald Trumps early 4 years he paid no income tax. Terrance Wall is part of the group. Hedgefund managers do not pay income taxes. A senior with money in Municpal bonds and social security is part of that group. We can ask these people to pay more!
Sorry, it still seems silly. It is worse than semantics since everyone knows that no one can avoid paying taxes in daily life. I don’t know who McCourt is but that’s ok. I have no dog in this fight – particularly since nothing discussed here is going to affect in any way the topic you’re debating. I simply stated that saying someone doesn’t pay taxes implies income taxes to all but the most purposely obtuse of individuals. It just seems to me that even if the extremely wealthy were taxed at 100% – no just confiscate all their wealth and leave them penniless – it probably wouldn’t wipe out the national debt and Federal spending is so wildly out of control that they’ll just start piling it right back on again at a trillion per year. Pointless debate until the spending is slashed.
Not everyone knows you can avoid paying taxes.
McCourt is the owner or former owner of the Los Angeles Dodgers!
Yes I am aware that taxing billionares of all their money will not solve this problem. However when their income tax rate for the top 400 has declined from 31% under Reagan to 13%. We need to ask ourselves is the spending the only problem?
Ah, professional sports. Sorry I don’t pay any attention to that sort of thing. Cheering on one set of genetic abnormalities over another… to each his own. I admit I’m no economic genius, but I still think spending is a problem when you realize you can’t possibly collect enough to cover what you’re currently spending – much less what you already owe – while pushing to spend even more. Lunacy.
You do not have to pay attention to realize that the owner of a Major League Baseball team will pay a crap load of taxes even if they pay no income taxes!
what government hand out programs have done to our native Americans, and to African Americans is sad and shameful.
CDEV – Reagan also reduced the top marginal tax rate from 78% to 28%, and what followed was almost 20 years of economic boom.
The tax code needs fixing, to be certain, but the tremendously larger problem IS spending. and not just the discretionary spending; the automatics like SS, Medicare and Medicaid, among others, need to be fundamentally reformed before they bankrupt America for my children.
And for the whole issue (or non-issue) of “no taxes” vs “no federal income taxes”, you go right on ahead and split all the hairs you want to. If you are daft enough to need that distinction spelled out for each time the topic comes up, I will oblige you. But to imply that anyone who debates this from the same stance as myself means “taxpayer” as anyone who buys a gallon of gasoline or a candy bar is absurd. Clearly we mean “taxpayer” as those who pay more than a net $0 in FEDERAL INCOME TAXES.
anyway, Good night and God bless,
Jeffery Beck
@jtownejeff
Although true, it’s debatable that Reagan’s cut had any direct relationship with that boom. Historically, booms follow busts, and booms also follow the conclusion of a war. And the cold war, was war, and I’m not sure we should be all that surprised that after the lean late 70’s and early 80’s, and the end of the cold war in the late 80’s, that a boom was going to come.
Further, it’s again arguable that the boom did any real good for the majority of Americans, because data shows pretty reliably that the middle class has not grown, even before the current recession.
Please note that’s not a refudiation of Reagan’s policies, or any of the other undeniably great work he did for this country. I’m only pointing out that I think it’s a little too complicated a matter to apply a basic if/then argument.
Bottom line is everyone has had their cake and gorged on it too, poor, middle and rich for too long. The poor are going to suffer reduction of services, the middle are going to suffer reduction of quality of life, and the rich are going to suffer paying more, and in this manner, everyone is going to pay for the buffet. This is the only fair way to recitfy our disastrous current and future course.
Jeff etal I can live with the implied distinction except that in the same breath the next sentence is usually about that 47% being leaches on the system who use government services and pay nothing. The implication is they all fall in the boat of welfare families. Statistically only half are in poverty and even if they are they still contribute something. the other half that are not in poverty are seniors who more then paid their dues and upper middle to upper class individuals with larger offsets and tax credits (you know the job creators). So when the characterizxation of the 47% changes from your side I will stop being anal retentive!!!!
CDEV – Jeff etal I can live with the implied distinction except that in the same breath the next sentence is usually about that 47% being leaches on the system who use government services and pay nothing. The implication is they all fall in the boat of welfare families. Statistically only half are in poverty and even if they are they still contribute something. the other half that are not in poverty are seniors who more then paid their dues and upper middle to upper class individuals with larger offsets and tax credits (you know the job creators). So when the characterizxation of the 47% changes from your side I will stop being anal retentive!!!!
Obviously no one thinks that 47% of Americans are welfare-sucking leaches. The issue that ‘my side’ has with the 47% is that they are calling for higher tax rates on ‘the wealthy’ while they don’t pay any federal income taxes. Also is the class warfare rhetoric coming (mostly) from the left, which only inspires the 47% to get behind them. again, why bite the hand that feeds you?
The original post was from Harford Campaign for Liberty, and that’s what it all needs to come down to: Liberty. More taxes = less personal libery. When 1/4 of my income is extracted from my paycheck before I even see it, I consider myself to be about 75% free.
And here’s the fix: flatten the tax code and do away with loopholes and incentives, especially the ones for specific industries and tax brackets. Reduce spending across the board. Look at each agency’s budget and whittle it down. Return soveriegnty to the states. Reform ‘entitlement’. (I don’t claim to have the answers or specifics on that one, but they are on unsustainable paths.) Do those 4 things and we will see unemployment decrease, federal revenue increase, and personal income increase. Win, win, win. Obviously that won’t cure all of our ills, but it would be a great big first step in the right direction towards prosperity.
Good day and God bless,
Jeffery Beck
@jtownejeff
Jeff as I have pointed out a good portion of that 47% is actually wealthy themselves or senior citizens!
PAUL: “The government should provide a job to those that desire one.” I thought you were against “socialism?” Certainly this would increase government spending. “I would make their parents work or take the kids away from them.” Of course this would not cost much, would it? Orphanages have traditionally been so good for children. “Please, sir, can I have some more?” “I struggle, work full time and go to school.” This is the definition of comfortable Paul. You have a job, an education and a great family. What more do you want?
Hey Proud,
“PAUL:” – For someone that complains about me wanting the last word, it is interesting that you called me out here…..
“The government should provide a job to those that desire one.” I thought you were against “socialism?”” – I am against socialism. Socialism, according to Websters is ‘any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods’. That is not what I am for. I am for the government giving the 7-11% of the people out of work a job until they are able to find work and along with that, get rid of unemployment, welfare, etc.
“Certainly this would increase government spending.” – Yes, it would. I think the government should pay for some things and I am fully aware of taxes and I wish to pay my fair share because I know the government needs to do things.
““I would make their parents work or take the kids away from them.” Of course this would not cost much, would it?” – It would cost, but so does the current programs, WIC, welfare, etc.
“Orphanages have traditionally been so good for children. “Please, sir, can I have some more?”” – No, some orphanages were mismanaged and some were even downright criminal. But, some parents are not good parents. As for the ‘sir, can I have another’ line, was that necessary? Appealing to the emotions for what would be the exception rather than the rule? If a person running an orphange abuses a child, they should be put away for a long time, and, depending on the abuse, executed.
““I struggle, work full time and go to school.” This is the definition of comfortable Paul. You have a job, an education and a great family. What more do you want?” – I want to get a great job and make lots of money so I can move into a mansion and have a maid and a butler. Hell, I want to be a billionaire, so freaking bad. Buy all the things I never had. I want to be on the cover of Forbes magazine, smilng next to Oprah and the Queen.
I also want everyone to pay the same percentage in taxes and everyone to have a job and lots of other things.
Anyways, have a nice day.
Paul Mc: “I am for the government giving the 7-11% of the people out of work a job until they are able to find work and along with that, get rid of unemployment, welfare, etc…I think the government should pay for some things and I am fully aware of taxes and I wish to pay my fair share because I know the government needs to do things.”
You, Sir, are beginning to sound like a Democrat.
Hey Proud,
I consider myself a conservative constitutional libertarian realist. I want everyone to work, support themselves and their families, and pay for the services that are needed to effectively run the country. I think most of the people in the middle feel similar to me, even if they have more liberal or conservative viewpoints. In reality, Proud, I think you and I would agree on 75% or more of the issues, its the other 25% or so we disagree on.
Anyways, have a nice day.
Paul Mc: Yes but that 25% is the rub. There are principles I feel so very strongly for that I will go down swinging to support them. I have very many conservative beliefs as well, but my liberal beliefs must take precedence. My bottom line always ends at what I feel is fair to all concerned. It is similar to the homily I heard at mass today. I believe in good works as the gateway to heaven. Faith alone will not work for me.
We need to overwhelm the system in order to rebuild it with something socially just and democratic. By accepting unemployment benefits and state and federal welfare we can destroy our current corrupt economy. Adding in off the books income makes for a living wage.
Occupy America Democrat
Occupy – what is socially just? can you define that? is it an equal outcome for everyone? if it is, that is not justice. it is communism, and as russia and cuba and many others have demonstrated, IT DOESN’T WORK. if i have 2 cars and my neighbor has none, is it just for the government to take one of my cars and give it to him? it may seem that way to my neighbor, but not to me. I worked hard and saved my money so that i could afford to have 2 cars.
when the founders wrote that ‘all men are created equal’, they did not mean that ‘all men are created with equal talents, abilities, intelect, etc.’ they meant that all men are equal before the law. Go read some of F. A. Hayek’s work.
“we can destroy our current corrupt economy” did you really just call the economy corrupt? Think about that for a minute. no go read the deffinition of economy. and think a little bit more. Destroy the economy, huh? you know that only those who are wealthy or in positions of power would survive the destruction of an economy, right? look at greece, spain, etc., you are truly no more than a mouth piece for alinsky and keynes. until you educate yourself, and learn from history, your comments will fall on deaf ears.
good day and God bless,
@jtownejeff
Hayek smyek, I’ll stick with Keynes, Walras, Krugran, Rifkin and the many other left-minded socially just economists.
The communists in Cuba and the former USSR corrupted their economic system.
The Democratic Party is full of people who beleive as I do that we can rebuild the US economy with fairness, justice. universal healthcare, free education and end poverty. We are peacefully revolting and we must use all means possible to end the conservative rethuglican theocorpacrisy.
Occupy America Democrat
Wow, someone to liberal for Proud. Occupy, maybe you should look up sedition.
Occupy America Democrat is not a Democrat. Who knows what nut house he is from. What we stand for is fairness to all.
While I do not agree with Occupies point of view. Him saying it does not equal sedition!!!
The 99% are rising. We have the support of the people and the White House. We will re-elect the President and sweep both houses.
We will take full advantage of the capitalist economic crisis and usher in a just social democratic new order.
Freedom at last is just around the corner.
Occupy America Democrat
the free market created the housing buble. Subprime mortgages were the creation of hedge funds and Wall Street. Fannie and Freddie did not initially offer these mortgages but saw a way to make quick profits by creating an alt-prime market that competed with subprime market for borrowers. CRA guidelines did not and have not created the housing boom as they only require that banks serve the communities that they work in and do not require giving loans to people that can’t afford them. Proof of that his that CRA laws haven’t changed and they as a general rule have the same default rate as most conventional loans do. Subprime and alt-prime programs generated faux homeonwers and investors seeking to make a buck or get into the wealth by ownership by holding and selling without actually paying down the mortgage or improving the property.
So to continue…the 1% gave the 99% imaginary wealth by increased home values and equity. The 1% sold off less than marketable mortgage notes to pension funds, investors and hedge funds by “insuring” the product. In the end the 1% was bailed out and made WHOLE by guaranteening their investment by propping up the ING’s of the world. Now the 99% is made feel like they are leaches on the system because of unemployment, failing property values and Congress is in the back pocket of big money whom will do anything to keep their wealth and not pay back the taxpayer what is due to them.
So it turns out, in another report in a long series of them, that in fact the rich have been getting richer and middle class incomes haven’t grown. Over the last THIRTY years.
People, that’s not a partisan problem, that’s an American problem. But feel free to start blaming anyway.
Seems like a good time to start taxing the rich a little more, based on this information, and I’m anxious to see how someone can defend the idea of lowering taxes on the “job creators”.
(two news sources for the fickle ones)
http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/26/news/economy/cbo_income/index.htm?eref=mrss_igoogle_business
http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/story/2011-10-25/middle-class-disappearing/50914822/1?csp=34news&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+usatoday-NewsTopStories+%28News+-+Top+Stories%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher