Area residents are gearing up to fight a potential Wal-Mart Supercenter at the intersection of Plumtree Rd. and MD Rt. 924 in Bel Air, organizing a meeting for neighborhood representatives and circulating an online petition that has thus far gathered more than 180 signatures. The petition, addressed to “District Representatives of Bel Air South, and County Planners and Developers” opposes the store on the grounds that it will hurt existing businesses, increase traffic congestion and may add to crime in the area.
Pete Gutwald, director of planning and zoning for Harford County has acknowledged that the low-price retailer has expressed an interest in building a store at the now-undeveloped Plumtree location, which he said has both the necessary acreage and the appropriate zoning. But as of late last week, the results of a traffic study to be submitted by the company to the county, an early step in a multi-step approval process, was still pending.
Ruth Rhymaun-Coughlan, an organizer of the opposition group known as the Bel Air South Community Foundation, said a planning and information session held in late May attracted more than 60 people representing 30 area neighborhoods and homeowners’ associations. Among the potential issues, she said, was that a Wal-Mart at the Plumtree site would likely require the expansion of Rt. 924, which she said could cause a loss of property for six churches along that road. One of the churches identified by Rhymaun-Coughlan, the Bel Air United Methodist Mt. Carmel Chapel at Wheel Rd., includes a cemetery, which she speculated could be paved over if it was the subject of a government takeover via eminent domain. “I would never want to see that happen to the beautiful United Methodist cemetery. It’s an historical site in Harford County”, Rhymaun-Coughlan said.
Despite word from the county that Wal-Mart is looking at sites in addition to the Plumtree location, Rhymaun-Coughlan said that officials in planning and zoning told her that no other site is currently the subject of a company traffic study.
Rhymaun-Coughlan said the next step for the opposition group would be a town rally, still in the planning stages.
From the petition:
Target: To the District Representatives of Bel Air South, and County Planners and Developers
Sponsored by: Bel Air South Community Foundation
By signing below, I certify that I am opposed to the construction of a Walmart Super Center at the intersection of Plumtree Road and Emmorton Road (Rt 924) in Bel Air.
I believe that a local economy provides the community with the necessary financial and social support for balanced economic growth. I am convinced that having a Walmart Super Center will be a detriment to our community. In particular, the construction of a Walmart Super Center at this location will reduce local business viability.
We the undersigned, would like to urge the Planners, Developers and Public Servants of Harford County, and the representatives of our Districts, to consider our plea. We are opposed to the construction of a Walmart Super Center at the location adjacent to Plumtree Road and between Rt. 924 and Hwy. 24 in Bel Air, Md.
We feel that this would be an unfortunate change to the wonderful atmosphere that we now enjoy in Bel Air, and would negatively impact local traffic and community safety.
We are concerned that without community input, this project will go forward with little consideration for the impact to the neighbors of this potential new construction.
We do not oppose development of this parcel, but wish to help shape the nature and atmosphere of the future of our community.
Sincerely, the Undersigned.
Additionally, I believe that a Walmart Super Center will add significant traffic congestion and may also increase the rate of crime in and around residential properties in he 56 communities along the Route 924 corridor and adjacent to Patterson Mill Middle and High School.
Online Listing May Indicate Growing Interest in Bel Air Wal-Mart
A listing on the Web site of a little-known commercial real estate company indicates that Wal-Mart is seeking contractors for a new 150,000 square foot store at Plumtree Road and Route 924 in Bel Air. But it remains unclear whether the listing was initiated by Wal-Mart itself or was generated by the company in response to recent local press coverage.
The listing, dated April 19, was posted on www.ConstructionJournal.com. The site maintains a subscription-based database of commercial, residential, and retail projects nationwide, as well as links to local news clippings for various regions.
The April 19 entry details a project at the intersection of “Plum Tree Drive” and Route 924 in Bel Air to build an approximately 150,000 square foot retail building. According to the listing, bids will be accepted “by invitation only” and the status of the project is “Conceptual Design.” Four “Prospective Bidders,” none from Harford County, have indicated their interest.
Jesse Josephson, vice-president of sales and marketing for Construction Journal, declined to detail the sources for the listing. Requests for comment from Wal-Mart Stores Inc. went unanswered. Gutwald said he was not aware of the ConstructionJournal.com information.
Here are a few items from the listing:
Reported: 04/19/11 3:24 PM
Title: Wal-Mart
Project Type: New Construction
Physical Address: Plum Tree Drive & Route 924
City/County: Bel Air, MD (Harford County)
Category(s): Commercial
Sub-Category(s): Retail
Contracting Method: Bids by Invitation Only.
Status: Conceptual Design.
Estimated Value: Greater than $10,000,000
Owner:
Wal Mart Inc (Eastern Stores Construction)
2001 Southeast Tenth Street
Bentonville, AR 72712
(479) 273-4696 fax: (479) 277-9367Details: Retail, Approximately 150,000 sq ft New Construction.
so walmart isnt going to build at plumtree huh capt jim and other local lying politicians.
I hope they have a better garden section than the Fallston Wal Mart. The Rte 40 store kicks it’s butt. How about a Starbucks so I can tool around the Mart with my Frappuccino?
My word, because we really need another Starbucks also? Unbelievable.
For your gardening needs, try the already existing Lowes, Home Depot, or even better, one of the superior local nurseries of which there are I think a half dozen within a 10 mile radius of Bel Air. My wife got a better Japanese Maple from one local nursery than what was offered at Lowes for more money.
This Wal Mart is not at all needed in this area.
@Richard – If the Walmart is not desired by the public no customers will show up and because there is no demand Walmart will limp along performing poorly or close.
On the other hand if people do show up at this Walmart it would be evident that the customers wanted it.
Um, actually it would be evident that they closed the one their customers are already going to and the customers they already have followed them to the new one.
That it stays in business would not demonstrate anything about whether it’s a good idea or beneficial at all for the community. It will demonstrate that Wal Mart knows how to make money. I’m so excited about that I just can’t tell you.
@Noble Walmart has every right to build new locations, relocate stores and close under-performing units. It’s what good retail businesses do. Walmart is a publicly traded for profit company that has a first duty by law to its shareholders. And in fact many people in Harford County have individual WM stock, mutual funds and pensions that contain Walmart stock.
Finally, Walmart relocations spur new economic growth in two ways a new store is built employing tradespeople, engineers, attorneys and accountants and the old store is typically leased or sold for another economic use. Not to mention property tax revenue for the county.
That sounds suspiciously like economics and a free market, you capitalist pig! Next you’ll tell us that property rights are important.
I’m not interested in stopping Wal Mart from doing business until it has a negative impact on my community.
All the economic advantages of building a new Wal Mart that you cite would be satisfied just as well by any one of the dozens of other retailers that could occupy that space and bring something new to the area that we might actually need.
@Porter I’m not interested in stopping Wal Mart from doing business until it has a negative impact on my community.
All the economic advantages of building a new Wal Mart that you cite would be satisfied just as well by any one of the dozens of other retailers that could occupy that space and bring something new to the area that we might actually need.
@Noble – Other retailers can compete for prime real estate anytime. Unfortunately you don’t get to pick what real estate these companies choose…they do. I know it’s tough for you and many others to accept that we still have a free market system and property rights.
Wal mart supports slave labor in China
Why another Walmart??? OMG There will be 4 in like a 15 mile radius…a new shopping center – sure – but another Walmart ?? what a waste…the whole area is a homogenous chain center…no character, originality, something different or even interesting…sad
They will shut down the Walmart on Constant Friendship Blvd once the Plumtree center is built. Smart business move IMHO.
I don’t disagree with that.
It’s just not good for the area.
Smart business move? Maybe in another location , have you had to drive around the proposed location, obviously you dont live around there so you have no room to comment , the location is terrible and is congested as it is!
So, when are all the Bel Air NIMBYs going to start posting about how this new Walmart should go in Edgewood? After all, what’s a little more crime on the Rte 40 corridor?
Um… rhetorical question/ baiting. Sometimes you live down to your own expectations.
Bel Air resident here. Bring on the Wal Mart. MBY is okay.
Me too Native!!! Bring it on. Then I will not have to drive to Fallston. It will be right around the corner.
sounds convenient to you , do you live close to this proposed location ? obviously not because its a bad location! the traffic is bad around there now!
Sorry I was late…I’m here. Yes please build it. We need a buffer Wal Mart between Abingdon and Bel Air. The Plumtree location will bleed off all the undesirables from the Fallston location.
Does anyone realize what wal mart does to our country?
@IM GETTING REAL PISSED
Yes, I do know what Walmart does for our country.
Walmart provides jobs, delivers great savings on food and products for everyone, but the poor benefit the most, and they have been innovators in market efficiencies and supply chain logistics.
WaLmart is one of the greatest examples of American entrepreneurship and ingenuity.
Porter
you are correct about jobs its creates massive amounts of Low wage Jobs, it imports billions worth of product from overseas, and stocks its shelves so that they can have the lowest prices, the executives make billions, the litte man is now out of work, and the quality of there products suck
@IM GETTING REAL PISSED
Walmart is the greatest retailer on the planet and it has lifted more people out of poverty, created more jobs than any company in the world.
Walmart has created great wealth and returns for stockholders including pension funds, IRAs and 401k, 403B and individual investors.
Porter
It’s not about NIMBY, it’s about how many WalMart’s do you really need in Harford County within 10 miles of each other. The Fallston Walmart is 3.9miles from the proposed WalMart location.
FYI: I grew up in Edgewood, love Edgewood and want to see Edgewood continue and grow into a great place to live.
this is not about NIMBY or even NOPE (Not in Planet Earth), it’s about leaving our communities better than when we found them, for our children, for our future, how is all this building sustainable when empty store fronts exist all over the development envelope (which they are attempting to expand).
@Jeff The envelope should be expanded – but along the I95 corridor on both sides. The existing development envelope was created 20 years ago by the politically connected good ole boys of Harford County who decided that Bel Air should be the “heart” of the county.
As you well know growing up in Edgewood it created the “Haves” on the north side of 95 and the “Have Nots” on the south side. Well now the “Haves” have all the traffic, all the stores, crime and so on because the demographics retailers look for justify them having 3 stores in a ten mile radius.
Until the no more growth people realize that limited expansion of the development envelope is necessary to create desired neighborhoods close to existing infrastructure(I95) in order to balance the demographics in the 40 corridor (which has limited growth and redevelopment opportunities) Bel Air and its surrounding neighborhoods will just have to learn that living in the development envelope means there will be development.
I am not a snob, I am poor, and live right next to 40 in the Abingdon area, where there is a (Guess What?) Wal Mart a few miles down the road in Aberdeen. If they want to build one that makes up for the loss of revenue at Constant Friendship, then traffic wise, and economically they should build one in Edgewood at one of the washed out strip malls they have now. It’s not about crime. Actually, a Wal Mart there might reduce it by employing people in that community who really need the work. Those of you who are for this with the argument of free enterprise and blah blah blah, don’t seem to get the fact that the store would serve a better purpose, and cause less problems somewhere other than that particular location. If anything Edgewood needs the tax revenue a hell of a lot more than Bel Air. BTW Edgewood crime will always be around as long as the County continues to do nothing to improve the area anyway.
Tune in or call our radio partner WAMD 970 AM right now for a discussion on a possible Walmart at the Plumtree location. DJ Maynard Edwards is taking calls at 410-306-6270
20 plus years ago – there was no Bel Air South.
There was open space, trees, farms, etc.
Now shopping centers, houses, schools, etc, etc, etc.
so c’mon in Walmart! The folks in hysterics now were once the object of derision themselves for contributing to the loss of what rural heritage Harford once had. They ought to just let it be and hope Walmart will be a good neighbor – no reason to believe it won’t be.
On its face, that sounds like a reasonable point.
However, you can’t assume that if the same people were present 20 years ago they wouldn’t have fought the same fight.
Further, just because nobody was around to stop the sprawl and congestion 20 years ago doesn’t mean that in the present we should give up now.
Other than restaurants/bars and second hand stores, it’s hard for retail stores to stay in the black in our small but growing town. Many storefronts have turned into office space that support the courthouse or the county. I think that the county should stop subsidizing this space with offices that should be consolidated …but that’s a different discussion.
The amount of jobs that a Wal Mart creates is undeniable. Shift work in such close proximity to home would allow families that require two working parents to make ends meet and still manage parental responsibilities. This, while not ideal, can not be found in the Bel Air area other than food service or law enforcement.
Free market entrepreneurs and “downtown” supporters may be well served by looking at ways to differentiate themselves and monetize the flow of traffic that this would create in a “business district.” The piece of land we’re talking about is in the development zone and will most likely go retail within the next decade unless someone wants to a gift it and develop it as a park. Of course, that’s really nice but not likely, because there are other areas along 24 that are already being considered for this. I for one would like to tenant that would keep occupancy for decades to come and make a considerable contribution to the tax base as opposed to the vacant space that litters Bel Air and makes it hard for neighboring businesses to survive let alone thrive.
Wal Mart creates Low wage jobs! imports Cheap product from China, For example if you Buy a Black and Decker drill at Home Depot, and its 10 dollars more made in the united states or you go to walmart and buy what appears to be a similar model made in China for less your not only supporting slave labor but hurting this country,
@IM GETTING REAL PISSED
We live in a global economy and Black and Decker manufactures all of their great power tools outside of the US mostly in China.
Porter
yes it is a global economy, and in order to supply chains like wal-mart a cheaper product they must produce this overseas, walmart says we wont buy this product if we cant buy it for this price. Ive worked for Wal-mart, ask the employees in the Aberdeen store how they felt about there $2 dollar an hour pay cut
@IM GETTING REAL PISSED
What $2.00 per hour pay cut are you talking about?
No one has to work for Walmart everyone is free to work for whomever they want and for a wage they can accept. And if Walmart can’t find employees to work for the wages they are offering they will have change their business model, however it seems people line up for Walmart jobs.
Pissed you don’t like Walmart, but the vast majority of Americans do.
Porter
So, traffic on 924 is already a mess at certain times of the day. Can you just imagine what it will look like if this Walmart goes in? They will have to add more lanes to 924 and Plumtree as well.
That is a ridiculous idea. That area is mixed residential, small businesses, banks and a school. Plumtree is a small 2 lane road as is 924, and both are carrying too much traffic as it is. Ever been on 924 at 2:30 when school buses and student walkers are everywhere?? Imagine that around Christmas, as Walmart shoppers have been known to trample others to death in order to get to a sale item.
Rt 24 is limited access so there won’t be a direct entrance from any main road. There are better sites for Walmart to move to, and considering that they just opened one in Fallston, there is no need to have one in already congested Bel Air. Directly across 95 from where they are now, there are plenty of open parcels along Van Bibber Rd, behind Richlin Ballroom for example. Mush better proximity to major roads including 95, and in an area already industrial. I really think that Walmart has the pull to get their lease fixed so they can sell groceries at their present location, where there is plenty of room for expansion and a newly redesigned traffic system.
I am not a real estate lawyer. But from all the research I have been able to do, the lease holder is the only one who can enforce the restricted covenent that prevents Wal Mart from selling groceries at the current location in Constant Freindship. It has nothing to do with County government or anyone else. And since the grocery that the covenant was intended to protect (Weiss) has already closed and there is basically ZERO chance another grocery will take its place because of the Wegman’s opening across the street, why would the curent lease holder choose to enforce it? There’s no reason I can come up with, other than somehow Target is involved.
Absolutely Wal Mart can, and should, remodel the store in its current location to include groceries.
i was going to suggest the same thing. location and visibility at current site seems favorable with no impact on residential properties. And i would suspect a cheaper option. Who knows maybe Walmart is playing this card in order to negotiate grocery sales at their present location? Supercenter at Constant Friendship – win-win for all (except Target)
I agree with you, there is aleast 3 or more accidents on 924 at the plumtree to the brightoaks rd. Building too much too fast. I thought that was why they are redoing rte 24, to control traffic…crazy traffic. They need to evaluate how it will impact traffic with schools and holidays. I think its a mistake. Leave some trees…too much building in Harford Co. We have more than enough…. Why not use the space Weis Market was in??? Use vacated space first before building more.
Good comment , they could easily expand the current location but they would rather not have the headache and just start over and ruin another area that is mostly residential , they need to consider another location!
Hey Maynard,
Where’s Steve?
Another empty building to fill with an indoor flea market!
I love them….. Build, build, build… Wally Worlds are great!!!! Hopefully soon I’ll be able to walk to one
Isn’t there a small road between National Tire and the High’s Store on Bel Air South Pkwy? That intersection that leads into festival is ripe for a light anyway. I would bet planners could expand an intersection and roads there with a traffic light and hopefully backdoor something on Plumtree or visa versa. The problem with Constant Friendship is whoever planned wasnt thinking – only one way in and one way out
This was exactly the problem – in the early/mid eighties there was a huge fight because a mall was supposed to go up on the site where the curent Walmart, Target…. is located – there were supposed to be ramps on and off of I-95 south and the community fought it not want to see more development – oh how far things have come from the original tomato fields that were once there. Those livng in Constant Friendship at the time got exactly what they asked for – wonder what they are thinkin now.. that whole situation over there is so sad. We don’t need another Walmart and in response to the empty Weiss Market – my understanding is that a huge sportsman store is going in there (could be wrong). Does every exit off of I-95 have to look the same – cause the look stinks
@JARRETTSVILLE MOM – Yes let’s deny people jobs and economic development so you can have bucolic imagery at I95 off ramps.
Well then put one near your home in high taxed Jarrettsville, and see how your local economy starts to dwindle, and small business there slowly goes away…..!!!!!! You guys wouldn’t even allow a McDonalds at the intersection years ago.
Also, it’s not about how 95 looks, it is the traffic problems in the area, that people can’t stand. This is not just at the 924/24 jucture it is also on the road that makes up the developments pass the Wal Wart. There has always been traffic problems in these areas due to the high volume that travels it.
Just to update this point, I’ve noticed that recently contractors have started work on the Weiss location, gutting it out, tearing up the front, including what looks like raising the profile and redesigning the facade.
Looks like a major retail facelift going on. Some resourceful person could probably use the contractor info to figure out how the tenant is going to be.
What a bunch of bullshit. After spending a few years and few million to improve the area they are in now, wal mart wants to create a new traffic nightmare.
A dose of reality: Very few communities have been able to stop this Evil Empire. Good luck Bel Air!
@ Porter, leave Jarresttsville Mom alone, she has a valid concern. And from an earlier mis-statement you made, WM will not pay any more propety taxes to the county because the county will lose the taxes it receives from the current location…think before you speak. Politicians use that kind of sell job and never investigate the secondary issues. duh!
A new large retail store already expressed interest in occupying the current WM location. Taxes there keep on keepin on… WM builds new store. Taxes on the new location. Yeah -duh.
Source?
Not that I doubt it would be, because it’s a good property, but where did you hear this, and who is it?
I hadn’t heard anything about it.
I’ve heard it from other places but how about JARETTSVILLEMOM herself who says:
” my understanding is that a huge sportsman store is going in there (could be wrong). Does every exit off of I-95 have to look the same – cause the look stinks”
I’ve not been told that it’s a done deal but I wouldn’t be too worried about that space going empty for long.
Actually, read carefully. She said, “We don’t need another Walmart and in response to the empty Weiss Market – my understanding is that a huge sportsman store is going in there (could be wrong).”
We’re talking about different properties. The question was what will happen to the old Wal Mart property, not the Weiss one.
The Weiss property information is just rumor and hearsay at this point, nobody with any real knowledge has said anything about it. And honestly, I am much more concerned about the Weiss property staying vacant. The Walmart property will find another tenant in less time. I don’t think concerns about it sitting vacant are a legitimate argument.
@FIRSTNAME.LASTNAME Don’t be obtuse real property taxes will continue to be paid on the old Walmart location.
Reality: your property taxes are based on what zoning category your property has! Owners of Plumtree/924 parcel have been paying based on their R4 zoning – for a long time, which is at a higher rate than, say, R1 or AG. As of rezoning, they have been paying based on B3 category. Same with WalMart, occupied or unoccupied, makes no difference. Owner pays the taxes, not the renter.
@SLB Actually on a Triple Net Lease the tenant pays the taxes.
Did @Noble just quote that “Walmart is a publicly traded for profit company that has a first duty by law to its shareholders. And in fact many people in Harford County have individual WM stock, mutual funds and pensions that contain Walmart stock.”
You addressed Walmart as sentient. It is run, governed, and guided by people, who care nothing about shareholders. That is laughable. Executives and board members will kick shareholders in kidneys and stab them in the thumbs before they agree to concessions to their station of money and influence.
I am not attacking them, this is fact. It is human nature. “Walmart” cares nothing about you, me, this forum, or anything else but profit. Don’t kid yourself.
i would like to know the chain interested in taking over the current abingdon walmart? and the source
Check with P&Z. The process for a business to open a new location in Harford County is full of required paperwork, most of which is public. You do have to dig for it. These events don’t just spring up from whole cloth – there is a paper trail. Become educated about where you can tap into it and be the accurate source of new development information.
When has WalMart ever deferred to local public opinion? WalMart – or a similar retail company – was a done deal at the completion of Comprehensive Zoning Process a few years ago. Before that, the land was zoned residential (R4, I think) the most intensive residential category. Requests by the owner, to rezone to B3, the most intensive business category, were all denied over the years.
Until the most recent Comp Rezoning. Owner paid the fee, applied to change from R4 to B3, and the public had many many many opportunities to comment/disagree/complain or protest the proposed rezoning. Many local common-sense land use groups raised the red flag on a number of rezoning requests that didn’t match the county’s Master Land Use Plan. This parcel wasn’t fought because B3 DOES match our Development Envelope model that has (mostly) worked to keep development along Rt 40 and Rt 24 corridors, instead of outside the envelope, where it is too expensive to provide public utilities to a less concentrated population.
Get involved NOW to see what properties are being considered for future rezoning – get to the party in time to actually make a difference!
The Walmart talk continues today on WAMD 970 AM radio. Call in or tune in to hear DJ Maynard’s theory about who will be taking over the Abingdon Walmart if the company makes a move to Plumtree. Join the discussion at 410-306-6270
The “planning” in this county is horrendous. I agree with those who complain about traffic on 924 and 24 — the roads were not designed to handle the volume. You can’t put traffic lights on every corner and traffic circles are ludicrous at certain junctures. The design of the Constant Friendship plaza is horrible — one way in and one way out. Who designs a hospital that is TOO small before it even opens? Who deisgned the horrible parking lot at the Toys ‘R Us/Barnes & Nobel plaza? Mountain Road is ill-equipped to handle its volume. The exits off I-95 are poorly designed. Yet guys like O’Malley and Brown in Annapolis declare BRAC success. And keep getting elected. I’ve already decided that we blown this burg on retirement. What a goat-rope.
buh-bye.
Is there a petition for those that WANT the Wal-Mart to move to Plumtree? I’m not opposed to it at all, and want to voice my opinion.
You’re awesome, Josh. Set it up! It’s easy to do.
google free online petitions.
I am glad you voiced your opinion. I agree, and I was thinking the same thing yesterday.
Joshua Mallow and MEEE TOOO: Do you also WANT to pay the millions it will cost to upgrade the infrastructure to support this superstore? Intersections, roads, water/sewer systems will cost the citizens of Harford MILLIONS. Don’t be a dupe of Wal-mart: there are enough of them in this area.Joshua Mallow and MEEE TOOO: Do you also WANT to pay the millions it will cost to upgrade the infrastructure to support this superstore? Intersections, roads, water/sewer systems will cost the citizens of Harford MILLIONS. Don’t be a dupe of Wal-mart: there are enough of them in this area.
Lib, you make the error of assuming that Walmart does not have the money to improve these intersections with their own bankroll.
The Fallston Walmart was required to improve FOURTEEN intersections before opening their doors to the public. THey will surely pay more than their fair share if they decide to open in the new location.
That’s exactly right. Wal Mart is currently funding the traffic study of (I think) 40 intersection around the site, and when the study is complete it will be turned over to the County, who will review it and specify which intersections and improvements need to be made, and Wal Mart will pay for those changes– NOT the County.
However, thinking that Wal Mart is doing us all a favor by paying for those road improvement projects would be a naive mistake. Some things to consider:
1. Who is doing the study? It’s not the County. Who’s paying for the study? Wal Mart. So how do you think that study is going to turn out?
2. The County has standards and criteria for those studies and how to determine which roads need upgrades, but are those standards good enough? How do we know that even after these projects there still won’t be traffic problems?
3. Do these studies include traffic volume projections in the future? Do they account for other nearby development or just the Wal Mart site?
I think you’ll see that whatever improvements Wal Mart were to undertake based on their study it is still going to result in a traffageddon in that area.
This is like having researchers do studies on pharmecuticals that are paid for by the pharmecutical companies.
If you think everything is going to turn out just peechy keen, come on, gimme a break.
I guess they are funding the devistation that is now the ramps for 95 at Constant Friendship as well. Oh wait, nope, that would be YOU ALL!!!! This is a problem that will snowball way out of control over time just so people can buy cheep underwear. Look at the bigger picture here. There is a place for Wal Mart, but it should be in an area that has more businesses and less residents.
I join with my brother Proud to be Liberal to stop the Walmart plague. We don’t need anymore development anywhere in Harford County. All we need to do is increase taxes on the wealthy and raise commercial real estate taxes.
One we get the affluent fat cats to pay their fair share we can improve entitlement programs for the poor and seniors like Proud to be Liberal who depend on county, state and federal assistance.
SuperProgressive
@Proud to be Liberal – So you want to prohibit economic development that would employ people to build commercial projects, open businesses to employ workers and pay huge commercial real property taxes?
That’s not liberal, that’s moronic.
Of course we need development, and we need it in the development envelope.
Let’s just have something better than this.
The small access road that leads over to Bel Air Parkway South isn’t big enough to handle the traffic. As it is now, many times the traffic turning left onto 924 is backed up past that. There are MANY accidents right in that spot. People going North who want to go to Bertuccis do Uturns there because there is no direct access without going up to that spot and turning. People are cutting over to Festival, people turning into the Festival and then you have the people who are just trying to get the heck out of Harford County via 24 crossing through to get there.
This county has turned into a parking lot. Anyone who comes to visit cannot believe who bad this area is. Also more traffic means even more pollution and more carcinogenics into an area that is very close to residents and housing.
It would be nice if walkways/bikeways could be required for all new construction. Many neighborhoods and businesses don’t even have sidewalks yet we a lot of publicity for bike to work day every year. If 924 is going to be re-constructed, now would be a good time to incorporate a path. If you want less traffic this is one way. Bel Air is going to see a lot of development over the next few years. We’re a small enough town that bikes can work for many of us! Instead of waisting energy trying to block the rights of property owners why not try to get things like intelligent sustainable growth. Wal-Mart, Upper Chesapeake Hospital and many others are providing a service. Let’s welcome them and encourage them to be good neighbors. Of course this goes for housing as well. Building a neighborhood without sidewalks is a regrettable shortcut.
sorry, should read: “yet we have a lot of publicity”
More people would walk, run, and bike if we built infrastructure that encouraged it, but we never seem to do it. More people are going to do this as traffic gets worse and gets more expensive. We should be actively encouraging it everywhere. It should be really easy to walk to basic places like a bank, grocery, restaurant, etc. But how many times do you get in your car for a trip that’s less than a mile because you don’t dare take your life in your hands on the side of the road?
I agree, we should ask for these types of improvements to coincide with the other road improvements that private developers have to undertake. Many times they do it with no argument.
More pollution? Do you think people will come from outside Harford County to visit a Wal Mart in Bel Air? How about less pollution, as Bel Air residents will now be driving LESS of a distance to get to their new Wal Mart.
This may surprise some people, but there are people (myself included) who don’t like or shop at Walmart. They aren’t cheaper in many instances or in many areas.
Yes to all comments about proper bike/walking paths, passive open space, etc. Now HERE is where the county CAN set higher standards. We are a prime location, extremely valuable in the Mid-Atlantic – we must not sell ourselves out so cheaply, as we have done so often before. We deserve a bunch more of what makes a community a desireable place to live and work: parks, open space, Parks and Rec facilities, nature trails, connecting trails throughout the county, environmentally responsible lighting and stormwater management: all the amenities that places such as Portland OR have – check it out. What other amenities would YOU want? The County has to sign off on the proposed site plans, etc. The County planners can “require” ie strongly suggest, press for, ask for, etc. Do you think WalMart & the developers are making enough money to pay for these anemities? I do. And if they don’t, then let another retailer have a chance at giving us what we deserve. Again, we have WAY undervalued our worth over the last 50 years. Why didn’t the county require new businesses to pay for the variable increase in cost to our infrastructure (utilities, roads, schools?) Why shouldn’t they now?
I’ve been to Portland and yes, that’s what I’m talking about. Bel Air is full of outspoken individuals. The proposed Wal Mart and the hospital expansion are both large projects that could start the ball rolling. This is good PR for the companies & good politics for out elected officials. Let’s (as the banner to this article states) “Gear Up” for something positive. If this is too much like teamwork, maybe we can fight over who takes credit 😉
dag! SHOULD READ: “OUR elected officials” …don’t want to be corrected by CDEV 🙂
This is interesting since I am the trustee for Mt. Carmel Church which will be affected and this is the first I am hearing about this. Why haven’t we been contacted about something that may have a very big impact on our church? This is a very old church that has a lot of history and a very active congregation. This is a very sad thing to hear.
Ms. McGhee, do not expect to ever be contacted in advance. That would allow you to actually try to do something about it. That is not how eminent domain works. It probably is time to start looking into the laws governing old cemeteries. You will probably not be happy with what you find out.
@NOT FROM HERE It is always sad and pathetic when people like you assert that an obviously public process like zoning and permitting is being done out of the sight of the public when the exact opposite is true. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Furthermore there is no plan by the government to use eminent domain or to pave over cemeteries to build this Walmart, is there?
My point, Porter, which was obviously not caught, was that individuals are not contacted. It is up to citizens to pay attention to what is going on in the community.
My reference to the cemetery, which sits right at the edge of both 924 and Wheel, was that it could be affected in a road widening project.
I do not call people names on line and I would appreciate the asame from you, Porter.
@NOT FROM HERE I called you no “name” in my post, but I will if you don’t apologize for you misstatement.
@DENISE H MCGHEE – I don’t see how job and economic growth are sad?
In fact it is attributable to the Lord providing for His flock in the ways of jobs, taxes and economic growth, not to mention the low prices poor residents would benefit from. It’s a blessing that only the selfish could decry.
Regarding notification to Mt. Carmel Church, were you due a written and mailed notice? If you were then you should complain to the proper jurisdictional authority.
So won’t the Wegman’s add a ton of traffic onto 924 too? Don’t get me wrong, I love that they’re here and am looking forward to it, but I think that there’s a double standard working. If we’re talking about traffic at Wheel & 924, I’d say that the development around the Wegman’s shopping center will crush that intersection long before a Wal Mart breaks ground. Are they evil too? I plan to shop at both! Each has something to offer and we should feel lucky that we’re in and area of the country that has these kind of “problems.”
Oh no, Equity, the massive amount of traffic on 924 from Wegmans is different because these folks like that store. Nobody will mind sitting in traffic if they know that the cars are coming from or going to the good place that starts with a W, rather than the evil place that starts with a W. 🙂
Equity,
Nicely done. (golf clap)
If I had been aware of the planned development of the property including Wegmans, I would have been against it on keeping desnity down alone— however, I realize that would have been a perilous argument to make in the development zone. But I was not aware of it until it was already a done deal.
Wegmans is the tip of the iceberg. There are 2 restuarants, a bank, and entire “Festival” like shopping center planned to go in the back of the property.
Yes, there’s going to be more traffic.
The original plan for the development was somewhat larger with a movie theater, parking garage, etc, so it would have been “worse”. But that original plan also called for a pretty walkable and pedestrian friendly plan. I’m not sure the new plan does that as well.
However, there is a fundamental difference between the Wegmans opening and the Wal Mart moving.
1) Wegmans is a widely well respected employer who is consistently named among the best employers, who offer good pay, good schedules, and good benefits to their employees. This is dramatically different from what Wal Mart offers. I invite you to research this for yourself.
2) There is ALREADY a Wal Mart in our area. While there are grocery stores, there is no Wegman’s. Wegmans offers really top quality fresh foods and reasonable prices on everything else. There currently aren’t many groceries that offer the selection and quality of fresh foods that Wegmans does. That is something new for the area.
3) The location difference. The area of the Wegmans development is near infrastructure that is already being upgraded. The Plumtree location would required major changes to several intersections.
@EQUITY Bravo well done, great post!
I find it funny that most the people against this came here and ruined a wonderful county by moving here. There was no Bel Air South, Box Hill, or 924. If you had not moved here, and ruined the cornfields by buying houses here, Wal-Mart would not want to be here. The secret to get Wal-Mart to stay away is to move out; vacate Bel Air South and move to Cecil County. Wal-Mart will lose it’s desire to be here. Bel Air can then go back to complaining about the cow on Business Rt 1 and the kids at McDonald’s and other such important things.
I have lived here a long time, and have seen Bel Air deteriorate, mainly due to too many businesses too close together. Wal Mart is the poster child for what can and will go wrong if they move to an area that is already congested with homes in the first place. There are always problems associated with new business, but Wal Mart sets a higher precident for how many of those problems that are going to occur if they wind up in the area of 924 and Plumbtree.
Does anyone not see the traffic problems alone in Constant Friendship???? I shop at the Wal Mart there, but only when i absolutely have to. The road construction, and pattern are a hazard all to itself. The first store there BTW was Wal Mart. It seems wherever this chain goes, many problems follow the town along with it., and the problems do not go away in a few years after the store opens. A supercenter in that area will only profit the money grubbing developers and not the people, except in property taxes. Big deal!!! 924 will ultimately have to be widened as well as Plumtree to accommodate the traffic that this monster store will create. Of course people will go there, because most people do not think about the overall devastation these stores have on local business or the town’s well being. When Wal Mart moves into a residential area, just like at Constant Friendship, I cannot see any true benefit to the people in the community. Why not have one in Edgewood where Big Lots or Giant used to be. That is an area that needs jobs, and structure…. Just my eight cents here folks, and I am definitely signing that petition.
No thanks Dave, I actually like escaping out of the Rt 24 area back towards Joppatowne…nice and quiet. Also Bel Air has become a nightmare and will only get worse. We actually go to White Marsh more now than deal with that traffic nightmare. No offense but if shopping means taking 35 minutes to get home..forget it. But Bel Air wanted development and thats just what it got. Abingdon is a product of its own demise…I mean how many townhouses can you build on top of strip malls..my goodness. I’m surprised folks can sleep in box hill without the lights those 90-day strip malls drowning out the stars!
Lets build a super strip club there instead. There is a lack of strip clubs in the county and too many Walmarts.
Be careful, because Porter will be quick to point out that in a freek market with property rights we can’t have any constraints on what gets built, where, or how.
We could build a community center, drug rehab clinic and bus terminus.
Typical Bel Air behavior. It’s ok for Walmart to be in other communities, but not ours! We prefer to drive to your neighborhood and shop there. Check the decals on the cars in Abingdon, there are a ton of proud parents of bel air schools. This super Walmart will create tons of jobs and personally ill be thrilled to see some of the traffic alleviated on my trips to Target and Lowes. The only problem for me will be when I head to the new sonic.
I just want to point out, lest anyone think otherwise, that as an Abingdon resident I am against the Wal Mart moving, despite the fact that I personally can’t stand the place. This is not a case of NIMBY, and not all of the people against it are Bel Air snobs, so let’s put that “argument” to rest.
If all the Wal Marts evaporated tomorrow, I’d be elated.
It’s just in any way necessary or beneficial to the Abingdon or Bel Air areas for this store to be reincarnated as a Super Walmart at the Plumtree location. Let them add groceries where they are now.
“If all the Wal Marts evaporated tomorrow, I’d be elated.”
I wonder how the 1.3 million Americans who do work for Wal-Mart would feel. Let alone, what effect would it have on the national economy when you drop that many workers. (# of workers according to Slate).
If 1.3 million people lost their jobs tomorrow you would be elated? With this kind of heart, you should run for Congress.
The Clue Machine has a message for you:
hy·per·bo·le? ?[hahy-pur-buh-lee]
–noun Rhetoric .
1. obvious and intentional exaggeration.
2. an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”
The definition of hyperbole does not count if you would throw a party if Wal-Mart announced they were closing. The ABW groups is close to the ABB group. (ABW= Anybody Buy Walmart)
@Noble – I though you were just a liberal/progressive, but now I see you’re an elitist/liberal/progressive who hates free markets, property rights and successful for profit companies.
You hate Walmart because it allows lower income folks to buy food and goods for less money and provides jobs for every demographic.
Walmart has done to retail what Southwest Airlines has done for air travel.
“@Noble – I though you were just a liberal/progressive, but now I see you’re an elitist/liberal/progressive who hates free markets, property rights and successful for profit companies.”
That’s hysterical because I have been a registered Republican all my life, I like (not love) the Tea Party movement, found a belief in smaller less intrusive government when I was in high school before I could even vote, and yes, I think the Department of Education should be abolished.
What you’ll see if you pay attention, is that the only thing “I am” is reasonable and in support of whatever makes the most sense for the public good.
Please save your labels for talk radio.
“You hate Walmart because it allows lower income folks to buy food and goods for less money and provides jobs for every demographic.”
That’s hysterical because I do social work.
“Walmart has done to retail what Southwest Airlines has done for air travel.”
What drive down prices? I’ll grant you that. Nothing wrong with that. That’s a natural market force.
But has Wal Mart been consistently ranked as one of the best employers like Southwest? No.
Has Wal Mart been consistently ranked as one of the best for customer service like Southwest? Hardly. No matter what their own surveys might say, anyone who thinks they are likely to go into the electronics department and find someone truly knowledgeable about the product categories is (most of the time) going to be disappointed. A 20 year old college kid selling a flat screen tv to an elderly couple hardly qualifies as “expert” advice, even though it might seem like it.
I’m not really interested in debating the merits of Wal Mart with respect to the issue of this relocation, because there are scores of other reasons it just not beneficial to our community.
I haven’t found Walmart to have any cheaper prices than other grocery stores. In fact, if you shop sales and clip your coupons, which most grocery stores double, you get a better deal.
Wal-mart items may be cheaper to purchase up front, but it seems that the items don’t last as long and end up having to be replaced more frequently.
Walmart has certain items for far less than anywhere else. Sodas, Dog Treats, Snack Foods, Canned Goods and more. I’ve never seen anybody beat them on Chunky Soup or Pepsi Products. Are you being paid to lobby against them?
No, not being paid a dime to lobby against them, just stating my opinion. I stand by my statement, if you take the time to shop sales and clip coupons, you can get items cheaper at any of the other grocery chains we already have. I generally stay away from Walmart as some of the items I have bought there seem to be poor quality and don’t last very long. I saved about $25 by buying my sons bike at Walmart, but less that a year later we had to replace it. Not much savings in that.
Noble: I’ve noticed that Porter likes to substitute rhetoric for reason in his arguments. It is easier to generalize and label that to present logical arguments. His argument above is a “STRAW MAN: It is a fallacy to misrepresent someone else’s position for the purposes of more easily attacking it, then to knock down that misrepresented position, and then to conclude that the original position has been demolished. It is a fallacy because it fails to deal with the actual arguments that one has made.” He also likes to make sweeping generalizations. It’s an old trick.
Their deed specifically prohibits them from adding grocery. That’s teh sole reason they wish to move.. Even though I’m sure the traffic pattern and Wegmans plays a role as well
Contained in their lease is a restricted covenant which prohibits them (or anyone else at that location) from selling groceries. It was originally written to protect the grocery (Weiss) at the adjacent property of the same owner.
However, there is no legal requirment for the owner of the lease to enforce that restriction. Principally because the Weiss no longer exists, and no other grocery is going to move into that property. Further, because the owner can simply choose to ignore the restriction, or even have it removed. Just like a landlord can choose to ignore a pet restriction in a lease with a rental tenant. Not the State, the County, or anyone else can force the property owner to make Wal Mart abide by that restricted covenant. If I’m wrong, I’d aprpeciate someone setting me straight about this point.
The Economic Impact of Wal-Mart
“Global Insight has found evidence that Wal-Mart has directly raised the economy’s potential to produce by investing in more capital, by using all its factors of production more efficiently, and by helping suppliers operate more efficiently. The higher supply potential raises productivity, lowers consumer prices, and increases real consumer purchasing power.
Previous studies have shown that Wal-Mart has contributed to lower consumer prices. Global Insight conducted a statistical analysis that supports these findings. We found that the expansion of Wal-Mart over the 1985-2004 period can be associated with a cumulative decline of 9.1% in food-at-home prices, a 4.2% decline in commodities (goods) prices, and a 3.1% decline in overall consumer prices as measured by the Consumer Price Index – All Items, which includes both goods and services. These estimates are in line with other researchers’ estimates of Wal-Mart’s price effects.”
SOURCE:
Business Planning Solutions
Global Insight Advisory Services Division
Walmart lowers prices for poor and rich alike and Walmart provides economic opportunity through both entry-level jobs and long-term careers.
That is so awesome.
Isn’t it great that we already have a WalMart?
“Lowers prices for the poor and the rich” that’s just wrong the rich should pay more!
re: WalMart and groceries: original lease prohibited adding groceries because of perceived competition with Weis Market. WalMart accepted that prohibition. Target’s lease with the same owners ALLOWS groceries. Owners won’t change WalMart’s lease plus WalMart benefits from leaving that one access/egress peninsula – a predictable traffic nightmare, but one which was ignored by the county planners at time of design, which could have been addressed by DAC with conditions. [What did they think would happen, controlling at least 5 big box destinations with just one traffic light? duh.] Owners of the Plumtree/924 property have 20+ acres in the middle of the Development Envelope and had every right to request rezoning from R4 to B3. We the people agreed to this reasonable, logical request that matches up perfectly with our Master Land Use Plan. Vote yay or nay on WalMart with your feet, but even liberal democrats such as I, strongly support legal, guided economic development, which is what this is. Truly, stop dissing WalMart, for it is a done deal – learn about the process and you’ll understand. Get your voices heard NOW by Planning & Zoning, with petitions and specific requests about how to make this development the best it can be for our county. They are the ONLY ones now who can request/require the high quality development Harford County deserves. Do seomthing EFFECTIVE, please!
I agree with everything you said, great job, especially the part about being involved in the planning process.
Just replace WalMart with anything else the location is zoned for that benefits the area and I’m happy.
ah ha………..but we cannot pick and choose which retail is “better” or “worse” – the economy will, and should, dictate what happens. Property could also be used to house a crematorium (see allowable business uses in the code.) I’m not excited about that either. If we, the public, want to winge and complain and be ineffective, that’s one thing. I resign from that discussion. Effective discussions should be: what do we want our county to look and feel like and be like (ie why not require building Leed gold standard? at least start there? require all construction waste to be recycled. require environmentally sensitive downlighting. passive stormwater management techniques. All the best management practices put forth by the EPA and BOCA and MDE and Sierra Club, etc. THAT we can demand. THAT needs to be discussed publicly with our County Council. NOT the relative merits of WalMart itself. Hope you all can get your voices together and present ONE voice to the council and P&Z. They are our last option and that window can close very quickly.
I agree, the examples of the standards you mentioned are something we should be doing in every case, and each time is another opportunity to make those things happen.
Unfortunately, the free market unhinged does not always lead to the best result for a particular community. If a small town sits at a major crossroads, the free market might dictate that all four corners of the only intersection in town be made up of gas stations. Unfortunately, that means there’s no grocery, no hardware store, etc, at the heart of that small town. Which is better for the people living in that town? The free market is a powerfully equalizing force, but not in all instances. That’s where government can and should step in and serve the best interests of the community.
Though we don’t own the land, we should be picking and choosing what happens to it to the fulllest extent that the law and regulatory process allows.
You don’t seem to be able to grasp this idea of a free market. In theory, if the area could support four gas stations, then there should be four gas stations and they would all thrive. However, in the real world there would be competition between the stations through price and convenience (minimarts), and the weakest of the stations would die off.
If the people of the town had to drive a great distance to a grocery or hardware store, there would be a smart business owner (i.e., a successful business owner) who detects this need and builds the needed type of store, unless the residents decide that they would rather drive than have a grocery store or hardware store in their immediate area.
When the county government limits the opening of liquor stores based on the location of existing stores, they are interfering with this economic system by limiting competition, leading to reduced selection in the stores and increased prices.
…and we do pick and choose: via zoning laws. (So glad they were instituted here years ago. Ever visited a place without them? yuk!) I support guided development via the zoning process. (Now, if you want to change the zoning laws, that’s via our County Council. Simple, but not easy, as all legislation should be.) HOWEVER, the zoning laws do, and must, allow competing businesses, too many of one, not enough of another. I am happy to let businesses sort it all out: you fill a need and do well, you stay viable, etc. Personally, I believe we would all be happier if we lived within walking distance (subjective measurement) of: a florist, a dry cleaner, a library, a pizza shop, a bank, a grocery, a deli, a spirits establishment, a school, a 5 & dime store, a vet, a bakery, etcetcetc. However, I am also glad that neither I, nor you, nor any one person/group gets to make that decision for our community. [In the past, however, through lack of enforcement or will, bad developers have ruined much of our resources.) That’s precisely where we, the people, have decided that commerce will meet: at the intersection of society’s overall wishes via zoning laws, and the marketplace. No more engineered than that. Shall we have laws as restrictive as, say, Williamsburg or Nantucket or Cape Cod? If our society here believed as much in preservation and history and village life as they do, then it would happen here. I would support that. But in the meantime, let’s make a difference using the avenues we DO have available: P&Z and our council representative. Hoping to hear a plan by the Abingdon folks that will consolidate their voices into an effective tool for improving their community. Fingers crossed.
This is silly. I don’t want a Walmart either, who would? But arguing about it on a website acomplishes nothing…
*I had to post a comment for school, otherwise i wouldn’t have joined the war going on here*
In my comment, i meant nothing against your elaborate arguement here or the online petitions against this Walmart.
Wegmans is going to kill the Giant, the Kleins Shop Rite and much of what’s around there. Weggies is the Walmart of food.
Only it offers quality AND low prices.
I can’t believe Walmart wants to go head to head with them. Not smart.
They would be well served to stay as a simple Walmart.
What a great thing for Harford County we are getting both a Walmart and Wegmen’s providing us with larger selection of products and creating greater competition in the marketplace!
Well what sorta makes the Wegmans opening different is because there is kinda a shortage of groceries in the area, which is also why Walmart has realized they are missing out big time.
The Giant has been gangbusters since the stores in Bel Air closed because between Bel Air and Edgewood, for all those people in between, the Giant and Kleins are the only grocery stores. BJ’s and Target are there, but not as popular for most people. Giant, seeing Wegmans coming, substantially improved their store. I think when Wegmans opens, the Giant will hurt, but in the end it will just go back to the volume it had before and it will be fine. I personally don’t plan to shop at Wegmans. We buy in bulk from BJ’s and pick up fresh vegetables and fruits from the Farmer’s market and Giant. I might go to Wegmans a few times a year when I have guests and want to get something special.
I don’t think Kleins or BJs will have a problem staying in business either.
What the Bel Air area needs is a Whole Foods or Trader Joe’s, along with a traditional grocery store. Not a super WalMart.
@Noble –
As it turns out your anti-Walmart position is political. Kind of an any retailer but Walmart attitude.
Guess what Noble, you don’t get to pick the winners and losers, in fact if a grocery store of a certain size and scope meets the zoning criteria then it matters little which brand it is.
Consumers get to decide where they shop, they don’t get to decide who gets to build based on a political opinion.
Porter
Man, you keep trying to re-frame the issue in a way that makes your arguments stand up better.
Not “as it turns out”, because I have said numerous times that I don’t want to see the WalMart and would rather see any of the many many other businesses that could open in that space and provide something NEW to the area. I personally don’t like WalMart, but that’s not even the reason for my opposition. It’s just that we don’t need it and there are scores of other fine businesses that would add value to the region, more value, IN MY OPINION, than a WalMart. I believe I’m allowed to have and state my opinion.
If they wanted to build another Target in that location, I’d be just as incredulous. It’s crazy. It’s not needed. We can do better with that space. We have plenty of retail options like WalMart in the area, including the one we already have.
And even, my personal opinion is that we don’t need to build anything there, I’d love to see it stay just the way it is, but as you are so apt to point out, it’s in the development envelope and properly zoned, so that’s not something I’m upset about or even seeking to change.
As I’ve said multiple times, I am for what makes the most sense and does the most good for our community, and my opinion is that a WalMart isn’t it.
I think I’ve been very clear and consistent and your constant mis-characterizations and exaggerations are pretty tiresome.
@Noble –
I hope your rant felt good?
It must be challenging for you to be an anti-capitalist, ant-freedom, anti-property rights, anti-Walmart elitist snob.
You don’t get that in terms of which big box retailer locates on the site your opinion doesn’t matter.
Porter
If Walmart comes to Bel Air – good! It will be right on the way home! Save time, save gas, save money! One stop shopping at reasonable prices. Good for Bel Air, Good for the environment. Hopefully all this protest against Walmart in Bel Air is not tinged with unspoken racial/socioeconomic fear – people fearful that the closing of Constant Friendship WM will bring “undesireables” to Bel Air
Really? We need another Walmart 3.9 miles from the Fallston Walmart? This has nothing to do (at least not as far as the Bel Air South Community Foundation is concerned) about some issue based around socioeconomic fear, it really isn’t and if you ever get the chance to meet with me at one of the county council meetings , community council meetings, or different community meetings I attend in Harford, or any rally’s that we are planning….this is about the quality of life for everyone in harford county. Everyone. Another WalMart? Turning the Abingdon WalMart into a Sam’s Club in 2018? Really?
We wouldn’t have supported the WalGreen’s on Plumtree (it isn’t even 24 hours), why do you need another one (there is already one down the road in Abingdon (4 miles) and another over by Safeway (2 miles).
This is about pausing and indicating to all those involved, we as citizens deserve better than more sprawl. On a 30 Acre site, you could have an excellent mix of shops/retail and open outdoor restaurant area the would rival the feel of the inner-harbor or The Avenue in Whitemarsh. These type of opportunities present real economic grown and better jobs than the WalMart economic drain effect (source Walmartwatch.org).
Let’s push for sustainble, beneficial, development that would really put a true “Heart” in the county. If Bel Air South and this piece of property is the “Heart of the county”, is Walmart our heart? Really?
I was disappionted to hear about the Panera going into Boxhill, just a few miles from the one at Festival. I’d rather see something new, or at least close the one at Festival (which could still happen). Though it does appear that the new one in Boxhill will be a larger open air style design, which is a nice idea. I like Panera, though I think it’s too expensive to be wortwhile, myself. I wish something else new was going into that space.
Despite whatever Porter wants to believe, I’m hardly elitist or snobby (I think it takes some money I don’t have to do that) and I’m not anti-Walmart. I think most people who are upset about the prospect of a Walmart at Plumtree are just like me, and would just like to what makes the most sense for the community.
Noble: Porter likes to attack the speaker rather than the speaker’s argument. It is called ARGUMENTUM AD HOMINEM. Ignore him!
@Jeff Dinger – Wow so you get to pick the winners and losers in the private sector on private property? And you use United Food and Commercial Workers International Union’s anti-business Walmartwatch.org website to support your ever so weak position?
Guess what, it isn’t up to you. If you want to build “an excellent mix of shops/retail and open outdoor restaurant area the would rival the feel of the inner-harbor or The Avenue in Whitemarsh” then by all means spend your money and do it.
Porter: Guess what, it is up to us. That’s what is called representative government. It is up to representatives, like good ole boy Capt’n Jim, to look out for his constituents. If he doesn’t then we will put him out of office for someone who looks out for the people rather than big business.
You snide remark about spending “your money” on creating a sustainable mixed business shopping area totally misses the point. Don’t attack the messenger rather than the message because it is easier than well thought out justifications for your point.
@Proud to be Liberal – The freedom to risk one’s own money in a business is not up to you. Government does not have the right to restrict or block any person or company from developing a project that complies with zoning and has bargained to control the property.
Basically Noble, Jeff Dinger and you are Anti-Walmart, unionist, liberal, progressive elitists who want to stop growth in Harford County.
Laugh-out-loud. Wow man. Stick to your talking points much?
There is nobody in the world who knows me, or has ever known me, who wouldn’t laugh at the label you just applied to me. If anything, most of my more “liberal” friends think I’m a heartless conservative who is a little too inclined trust an unregulated market and rattle a sword whilst waiving my pen.
But if you need labels and simple stereotypes to help you understand and catalog the world around you, have at it.
Porter: “Basically Noble, Jeff Dinger and you are Anti-Walmart, unionist, liberal, progressive elitists who want to stop growth in Harford County.” To paraphrase “Name calling is the last bastion of the ignorant.” All this does is show the bankruptcy of your arguments.
Your logic is what allows hydraulic fracturing, or “fracking”, among other horrors, and causes ordinary people to lose their water because of pollution. Just because a big company CAN do something does not mean it SHOULD do it. You see, it is the business of government to protect us from voracious, profiteering companies that will do ANYTHING to turn a profit. Does the BP oil spill ring a bell with you? This catastrophe was caused because the government did NOT regulate and should have.
@Proud to be Liberal – Does Walmart drill for natural gas and oil? Will Walmart exploit natural gas reserves in Bel Air?
Kind of a weak argument don’t you think?
Is Wal-mart a large company? Kind of a weak answer don’t you think?
@Proud to be Liberal – It’s not illegal to be a big company and have a successful business model. In fact most budding business owners dream of a Walmart success scenario.
Liberal/progressives despise success and loathe capitalism. They would rather create more Amtraks and fewer Walmarts.
Poter: June 23, 2011, 10:47 am
@Porter: You either intentionally of through blind loyalty to Fox talking heads miss my point. While it is not illegal to be a big company, it is both illegal and/or morally offensive to pollute our only environment, kill citizens with poison or disregard safety standards. I don’t despise success as you tea party followers claim, but I do want big business to stop sending our jobs overseas, exploiting their workers and raping our environment. My other point is that our elected, representative government, as envisioned by our founding fathers, is the only protection we enjoy from voracious, profiteering companies. One can be successful and responsible art the same time.
Do I have to reiterate my point for you to make an intelligent comment on it? I was talking about your reasoning that allows big business to do anything for a profit. Do you think you can engage in a discussion on this without your usual recourse to name calling? Surely even you must admit that fracking is not a good thing for anyone but gas concerns. Do you want your well to be poisoned in the name of profit? (Remember I am referring to you argument and NOT to Wal-mart.)
@Proud to be Liberal – Your argument is specious and supremely misleading. You are trying to conflate unrelated issues with Walmart in your efforts to demonize the company. Your disingenuous argument doesn’t pass the smell test.
@Porter: What don’t you understand about: “(Remember I am referring to you argument and NOT to Wal-mart.)?” We can see that you do not have a justification for your argument. I’m done with this as you are not capable of reasoned discourse. Have a nice day Dude.
@Proud to be Liberal – Go ahead scurry off to your liberal/progressive capitalist-hating hole in the ground.
There is something sick about a liberal/progressive ideology that despises entrepreneurial financial risk and success and that is hell-bent on creating as many obstacles to private investment and job creation.
Shame on you, Proud to be Liberal, for shame.
That’s the best you can do to defend your argument? You are pathetic.
@Proud to be Liberal – It’s manifestly evident that Walmart has the right to build this store. Walmart doesn’t need your blessing.
It’s your hyperbolic and specious statements that are weak and pathetic.
Whatever Dude. Your postings speak for themselves. Ut sementem feeceris
@Proud to be Liberal – Latin phrases will not rehabilitate your failed progressive ideology.
Especially when you don’t get it.
@Proud to be Liberal – I get the Latin phrase and liberal/progressive ideology.
Latin phrases are fun, liberal/progressive ideology destroys the economy, erodes property rights, reduces employment, raises prices and confiscates wealth from producers to redistribute to non-producers.
@Porter: You have not addressed one point I made. Slogans, name calling and overgeneralizations are not arguments. You are just spewing Fox talking points. Your tea party tribe is like a bunch of Lemmings blindly running off of a cliff because you consistently vote against your own best interests so billionaires can reap the benefits.
@PROUD TO BE LIBERAL I am happy to respond to any point you may have and once you make a cogent point about Walmart please let me know.
As it stands right now Walmart gas every right to develop their location.
@Noble – I can only respond to what you’ve written.
Your response has been to make generalizations and use stereotypes and labels.
If that qualifies as ‘responding to what I’ve written’ about a topic, then we’ll have to agree to disagree.
Have a good one.
@Noble – It is apparent we disagree so there is no need to agree with what is obvious.
You know Constant Friendship has a Walmart, why can’t they improve upon what it already there? Get it rezoned to be upgraded to a super center. The parking lot is never full, even on holidays, so i would think they have the room. I have a huge problem with this, due to the fact that Wal Mart wil not bring any kind of truly decent income to the average job seeker. It will not improve the local economy, only cause larger construction projects to improve traffic conditions in the area like at Constant Friendship, Which is even more of a problem since it has been built. There are enough Wal Marts in Harford County. If anything the Council should create a special zoning policy only allowing x amount of Wal Marts witihin a 20 mile radius of each other. Sounds funny, but Wal Mart Is trying to monopolize this area, and will take more away from small business every time they build another one. As far as the building of it, the company showed no interest in hiring local contractors for the build of the proposed store in the first place. That does not sound like a retailer who wants to help Harford County. The council needs to really think about the effect that this store has on the areas it occupies now, and the impact it really has on the community as a whole, not only economically, but socially. The Harford County Counsel needs a wake up call here, and we need to give it to them. They work for us, and although that is said a lot in about public servants, it is shown not to heeded by them. Do the right thing this time for once, and don’t allow this to be built. Let them upgrade what they already have. Ty
DAVE75: You stated “There are enough Wal Marts in Harford County. If anything the Council should create a special zoning policy only allowing x amount of Wal Marts within a 20 mile radius of each other.”
The thing is that the County Council, and especially Capt. Jim, has never seen a project by a developer that it didn’t support. It seems to me that they represent developers, not us poor citizens. If you expect relief from them, you will be disappointed.
@DAVE75 “create a special zoning policy only allowing x amount of Wal Marts within a 20 mile radius of each other”
Government cannot legally restrict by singling out a specific retailer telling them where they can develop on commercially zoned property.
The Constant Friendship Walmart has a deed restriction not a zoning restriction. The council has no governing authority on deed or lease restrictions.
Porter
I have lived in the Bel Air area for 115 years, and remember when it was just farmland, so my opinion in this matter should be heeded.
Oh, and I grew up in Edgewood, so I know what it’s like to live there and feel my opinions about that area should carry more weight as well.
Hahaha – LOVE that Bel Air snobs will soon be living in an area where it takes 45 minutes to drive three miles!!! Enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!
you must be the oldest person alive
Oh, forgot to mention that I’m also a poor, just trying to make ends meet, salt of the earth type person.
Wal Mart puts Americans out of work
Heard last night Bass Pro Shop is going into the Walmart Site at Constant Friendship
Are Walmart and Walgreens connected? They’re not but they certainly share the same saturation bombing expansion plan.
OK, the Fallston store (which was nearly empty the last time I was in there) is on a strip of Rt 1 that is mostly car dealerships and some professional buildings. The same for Aberdeen. Constant Friendship is on a commercial parkway that is business only and next to major highways.
The Plumtree site is clearly a different area altogether. Very much residential with 1 strip mall and small professional buildings, nursing homes and schools. 924 on any schoolday will be loaded with schoolbuses, walkers and commuters who take the bus to Baltimore.
It’s just a bad choice for a Walmart location. Period
There’s a very large parcel of land behind the Richland Ballroom, I wonder if that is an option?
Keep Walmart out, Id rather buy my clothes at the local store owned by a small business man, rather then support some comunist country who pays children pennies to produce clothing
Which “local store owned by a small business man” are you talking about? Can you give us a name or two of these clothing stores?
@IM GETTING REAL PISSED
You can buy your goods anywhere you like, but it won’t change where things are manufactured. Americans are not going to overpay for goods no matter where they are produced.
American manufacturing has suffered from high labor costs and union intervention. We are becoming more and more high tech and we will continue to move away from low skill manufacturing because we can’t compete with low cost producers.
Porter
Walmart sucks. They intentionally pay low wages to undercut their competition and most of their wage employees qualify for Medicaid because Walmart doesnt’ offer quality health care plans to its employees. In addition, they discriminate the elderly, women and minorities. Their products are low quality and is cheaply made in China. Like I said already, Walmart sucks…
@FRANKLY SPEAKING
The great thing about our country is no one will force you to buy from Walmart and it doesn’t seems as though Walmart will miss you since millions upon millions shop at Walmart time and time again.
Porter
I don’t care either way. Many of my friends and neighbors are upset by the possibility of a “Plumtree Wal-Mart” so if it doesn’t happen so be it.
My issue is with people who voice their opposition with ridiculous claims. Does any one believe that a cemetery will be paved over and who could possibly be FOR paving over cemeteries? And, what do they mean by the “possibility of increased crime”? Hell, with 2 major incidents of vandalism and and at least $10,000 stolen from the safe, Patterson Mill Middle/High school has increased crime quite a bit on Patterson Mill road. Where are the screams from the Bel Air South Community Foundation about shutting down that breeding ground of lawlessness?
The only issue that is important here is traffic, can the area handle the increase? If not can improvements be made so that it can? Obviously a traffic study is being done or has been done. It is my understanding that it was paid for by Wal Mart, I see where some people may take issue with this. I say the petition should be to request that the county conduct its own study. Then we can all see it, comment on it and move on from there.
Admit it, most of you opposed to the building will shop there when it opens! So don’t be swayed by a few unAmerican, business hating, liberal nut jobs, who would oppose a Wal Mart built 100 miles from anyone or anything!