The following letter was sent to Harford County Public Schools Superintendent Robert Tomback and members of the Board of Education. A copy was provided to The Dagger:
Board of Education Members,
My name is Charlene Lunsford, I am Fountain Green Elementary School PTA’s Vice President. I am again writing to you on behalf of the citizens of the “Fountain Green Heights/Green Valley Manor” communities. This is my second correspondence with the BOE because I received no response to my previous email.
I feel the need to point out some discrepancies concerning the FGES school district presented at the last redistricting meeting on February 7th. First and most importantly, the community was referenced as having 47 students at the last meeting. This number is inaccurate; there are 22 – 23 students in this community who attend FGES, which includes some of our current fifth grade children. (see attachment with original STAC redistricting map that has the current number of children depicted) I ask that you please take a look at the data you collected for the Fountain Green Heights/Green Valley Manor neighborhoods. Enrollment numbers play an enormous role in this process; I would please ask that the data is double checked before a final decision is made.
Second, there is an underlying problem with the way this community has been selected to be redistricted. This community was NOT included in the original STAC redistricting map, the Stone Ridge community was. STAC listen to the factual data supplied by the Stone Ridge community and when the second STAC redistricting revision map was presented Stone Ridge was returned to Fountain Green Elementary school (see attachment with revised STAC map) however Fountain Green Heights/Green Valley Manor was chosen to be redistricted. Stone Ridge did not present an alternate move in their presentation; they presented factual data that showed that there is no reason to redistrict any community within the FGES district because we have had declining enrollment, no potential for future growth and our current enrollment numbers show we are not over capacity. It can be inferred that Fountain Green Heights/Green Valley Manor are being targeted for the sole reason of being able to say that redistricting was implemented in the FGES district.
Furthermore I find it personally disturbing that I have not seen the proposal from the “Fountain Green Heights/Green Valley Manor” in the public submitted proposals: STAC review, analysis, and recommendation Matrix. It has been stated that no alternate plans were posted to the matrix if there was not an alternate move of students listed to allow that community to stay in a district, THAT IS NOT A TRUE STATEMENT. Stone Ridge, the first community in FGES that was slated to be redistricted, was listed on the matrix and their plan simply asks that they be retained in the FGES district with no alternate move. My question again is why was their request heard when the appeals of “Fountain Green Heights/Green Valley Manor” have gone unanswered. I think it is prudent at this time for the BOE to consider the public perception that it gives everyone that STAC obviously agreed with the data the Stone Ridge presented that shows there is no need for redistricting in the FGES district but still decided to redistrict another smaller community in the FGES district. It could be alleged that the revised redistricting being attempted in the FGES district is being pursued just for the sake of being able to say redistricting was implemented in our school district which I find unacceptable given that fact children are affected by this decision.
The PTA at FGES stood behind the Stone Ridge community like we stand behind the Fountain Green Heights/Green Valley Manor communities because we felt once the accurate enrollment data was exposed and considering our declining enrollment and the fact that we have no potential for future growth we felt there was no need to redistrict at FGES to keep us under capacity. Please do not uproot these communities’ children from their friends and school just for the sake of saying redistricting was done within the FGES district when it is just not necessary. I thank you again for your immediate attention to this matter.
Charlene Lunsford, FGES PTA VP
I have attached the original STAC redistricting map which depicts the correct amount of children in the Fountain Green Heights/Green Valley Manor community, and the Stone Ridge Alternate Redistricting Plan which shows the correct enrollment data present and projected for the future for FGES which supports our appeals that the Fountain Green Heights/Green Valley Manor communities should be allowed to stay in the FGES district.
Seriously? All of these stupid open letters and “articles” criticizing the BOE about redistricting?
Life sucks, get used to it. We can always get what we want, but sometimes we can get what we need! Moaning and groaning over redistricting is about as useless as udders on a bull…you might feel good suckling at the teat for a while, but in the end, it gets ya no where.
Can’t always get what we want, typo.
I can only assume from your uneducated comments that you don’t have children or don’t have children affected by the redistricting. If you read the email there was no “moaning and groaning” going on, it shared FACTUAL information pertaining to the redistricting of this community. Why don’t you do everyone a favor and not comment on something unless you have something constructive to say. As far as not getting anywhere with addressing the redistricting problems, that is a very inaccurate comment. If you knew anything about the redistricting in the FGES district you would know that when your community pulls together and fights it with FACTUAL information that it absolutely does get you “somewhere”.
Thank you for this. My children are affected by this and have been affected by the overcrowding at Prospect Mill for years because of their overcrowding South Hampton Middle School has been taking on their burden.
With the FACTUAL numbers presented leaving the students at FGES, this will just help to alleviate the overcrowding at Prospect Mill (one of the main reasons for this redistricting initiative) and will leave the FGES community intact and at their perfect number. Fountain Green is NOT over capacity and based on the numbers will have decreases in the coming years.
The Prospect Mill communities have room for future development and do not need the additional 22 students that are proposed to change. Why change something that is working just for the sake of change?
In addition, the new bus route will unnecessarily endanger our children. The plan shows this factual data and provides comments from the experienced existing bus driver on the matter.
I was at the meeting last night and I think you guys will be ok. It doesn’t make sense to move anyone. AND cleary the Bus route is a documented hazard. Why do all of these other forget that we are talking about actual children and what is best for them?
I agree. I was at the meeting last night as well and I think the BOE heard what their community was saying. It does not make sense to move them to another school district on so many levels that I believe the BOE has no choice but to return their community back to the FGES district. FGES is not over capacity, there is no logical or safe bus route and we are talking about only 25 kids. It is unfair to redistrict these kids just for the sake of being able to say redistricting was implemented in the FGES area.
LOL. BINGO! Hook. Line. Sinker.
Let me get this out of the way first…I honestly don’t care what redistricting plan goes into effect. That was the actual intent of my comment as well as giving this website feedback on what interests its readers. Yes, as a user / customer of this website, I drive the content, and I’m sick of seeing THIS content. It has been boring, generated sparse comments, and it’s practically a drive around the county with the same arguments.
Simply put, the BoE is going to do what it needs to, to achieve economical, geographical, and physical space benefits while placating enough fears and concerns to keep as much peace as possible. In the end, this is purely numbers driven, and while some exceptions will be made, tough love will probably rue the day.
Should the community be involved and offer input? Yes, but when there are about a half-dozen or so open letters and articles offering there thoughts and opinions on a weekly basis, it’s getting repetitive. It has become a which committee can shout the loudest to get what it wants.
Redistricting is a necessary evil, and almost every community has taken some issue with it in one form or another. Some kids are gonna get bounced around, some aren’t, it is just that simple. No redistricting plan is perfect, and quite frankly, the attitudes of most of these letters are simply a “not in my back yard,” I want it “my way,” generalization. Sorry if that is my “uneducated” opinion. I’m entitled to it, and if you don’t like it, that’s fine, it’s a free country after all.
Please note, that I didn’t even attack you or your letter, as I talked in a generality, but since you want to play that game, knock yourself silly, here goes. Did I contribute to the redistricting discussion in my opening salvo? No, I didn’t. But I proved just how emotionally charged this situation is, by your bitter retort that I’m not contributing and I don’t have kids ect. You don’t know my situation and I don’t know yours. Let’s leave that at that.
Yes, there are facts, wonderful. Pat yourself on the back, it’s awesome to see you self-congratulate and offer concrete “solutions” to a nearly non-existent problem in the minds of most parents. You’re dealing with a bureaucracy, that has a difficult task, that marginally impacts child development. Yet, this topic has become the end of the world to arm chair lawyers, PTAs, and other .orgs. And for what gain? Kids at this age are adaptable. Heaven forbid a kid moves to the area for BRAC and has to make new friends. We can’t expect the same from a child that just so happened to be caught on the edge of a district?
Let’s take take a moment to examine a backwards statements like this: “In addition, the new bus route will unnecessarily endanger our children. The plan shows this factual data and provides comments from the experienced existing bus driver on the matter.”
REALLY? LOL, “unnecessarily endanger our children?” Oh, cut me a break! You have got to be kidding me right? You pulled out the “for the children” “safety” argument? LOL ROFLMAO!!!! How rich! It’s so impeccably asinine its hilarious, and so pertinent to the argument of how ridiculous this crap storm is (and why I’ve tired of reading about it).
First, is your child still going to get an education? Yes. Might they have to make new friends? Also yes. Might the teachers not be as good as at the other school? Potentially, but that’s another problem for another day that needs to be addressed. Unsafe bus routes! LOL.
Might your kid need to ride the bus for a longer period of time? Yes, but what happens when they chose to go to Tech in 9th grade or the Math-Sci academy at Aberdeen, or God forbid, to North Harford for the ag-sci program (after all, wouldn’t want them becoming duck farmers now; despite the absolute need for growth in that industry over the next 20 years).
So, yes…if one wants to throw out these arguments of child development, friends, and bus ride durations, that’s fine. In reality, kids are more used to change than us adults, and will cope better. After all, they will be forced to develop and foster new relationships through out their lives, might as well start them young.
Have you read the facts about accidents making a left out of the FGH community? Currently the school bus makes a right turn onto 543, but with redistricting, would be forced to make a left. Over 100 accidents were reported by BAVFC last year at this intersection. At the BOE meeting Monday night, a woman whose son was killed at an accident at this intersection spoke. Get your facts straight before you criticize parents for being concerned about the safety of their children. The argument has nothing to do with the duration of the bus ride, and everything to do with the safety of these parents’ children.
Then call state highway and get them to put a light in! Oh, I’m sorry, why didn’t someone mention that before! Accidents are the result of quality traffic control which means it’s a highways issue. Didn’t state highway put in traffic lights that are permanently set to flash for the North Harford High and Middle bus switch? Same thing could be done to control traffic during dismissal and arrival times at FGEMS. You do have a serious issue with that intersection, that’s understandable. But a blanket statement that “the roads are dangerous” and “extending transit times” isn’t an argument because we can all go, “well duh!” I know I’ve seen Harford Co. HazMat come flying out of ECOM and damned near hit people too, so yes, the roads are a dangerous place. As most of us from the norther end of the county know, 543 is a high speed highway, despite that particular intersection being 40 MPH.
Seriously! Get my facts straight? LOL. Are we that dense around here? Did you not read anything I said?
IN NO WAY WERE MY COMMENTS DIRECTED AT ONE SCHOOL IN PARTICULAR. (Sorry for the caps lock as there is no bold or italics here). My comments are a generality, period. They could easily be applied to the whining heard from Jarretsville, or Prospect Mill.
Amen BlueHen! Well said.
Really… I take it from your screen name you are a teacher. Have to say I am completely surprised that you would agree with FightinBluHen51 when we are talking about children’s safety. Redistricting is going to happen, that is a given but FGES situation is different. We are not over capacity and with Fountain Green Heights/Green Valley Manor children remaining in the FGES area we will only be at 92-95% capacity next year. I would think being a teacher and knowing there is no need to move children needlessly that you would be taking the side of the children. Why move a child to a new school away from their friends just for the sake of moving them?? Doesn’t make sense to me…
What if next year 10 families with K-5 children moved in to houses that used to be occupied by seniors? You need to leave room for the possibility of growth or you find yourself over crowded again!
Everyone wants to comment but no one wants to look at the data for this community. It is a small community; even if half the seniors left and their homes were occupied by families with children we still have room for their enrollment. Fact is our enrollment declines each year. If we look at the data for the last 2 years in that community we had 1 child from that community enroll in 2009-10 and 2 children enroll in 2008-09. Data does lie. All I am saying is don’t move these children and disturb their lives for no reason.
This will appear a little out of sequence because the comments software ran out of nested replies.
But in reply to Charlene’s comment at 11:01 AM on 16 Feb, 2011, your point is valid.
However, you can simply not predict movements of people. Humans are at best, irrational, and while we follow daily habits, predicting long term growth in state and neighborhood population is a crap shoot at best. Actuarial accounting is a very hard and complex task that uses statistical analysis and makes some pretty BIG assumptions.
That is one thing that most of these letters haven’t had the resources to delve into. From following this topic, I don’t know the complete methods that the Board of Ed used for its study, but I would assume that they at least made some assumptions to a model based on BRAC and other contributing factors from things like the master plan.
Look, I’m not saying that your argument is flawed, but contrary to what you are asserting here, that FGES will be at only XX% because we have had declining enrollment for 2 years (give or take), says that you are using arbitrary data series over a time line that coincides effectively with your argument. Now, the underlying causality could be 100% correct, but like any good statistical analysis, I’d want to see at least 10 years of historical enrollment data, and I’m assuming that is what the BoE has done as well. Lengthen out the time-series data to be better able to extrapolate that info given any cyclical or trend that is continuing.
Please note, that I tried to stay out of FGES business, and emphasis the point that I didn’t care what plan the BoE implements, I was just tired of hearing about it! But, actually digging into the data, there seem to be some pretty big assumptions (and by both parties). I assume that you meant that data doesn’t lie, but like you did say, data can lie, especially when it’s extrapolated without much back data.
Look, I get the parental thing of leaving your kid at the school that they are at. I honestly don’t know how I’d feel if my kid was being up rooted from friends and familiar teachers. I would probably even be a little pissed about it as well. However, in the scheme of life, this isn’t even a zit on someones butt.
Again, these are all my personal opinions, and you’re free to disagree with them. I just don’t see the big deal, and quite frankly, only the loud minority is being heard. I guess I just decided to speak up for the silent majority.
I think Blue Hen would be clucking a different story if she were a parent of a redistricted chick.
As the “silent majority” that you think that you speak for is not being affected, shouldn’t they have little to say? Shouldn’t the minority that is being affected be vocal?
The changes to date will move over 500 fewer students than the original plan, and bring all schools below 100%, again unlike the original plan.
Would these changes to better the plan have been made without the vocal minority input???
Keep clucking vocal minority!
Always possible. So is the converse, a bunch of children could move out. The past 5 years show a 36% decline. Each year has gone down. To keep capacity from decreasing next year, 41 students would need to be enrolled above the current Kindergarten level (a 76% increase in one year).
Wow, I’m exhausted !You know what I’m tired of hearing? I’m tired of hearing, “Your kids will adapt”, “the alternative school is a good one”, “they are going to get a good education” ect…. redistrict away just use logic when doing it!!!! In my case I don’t feel that logic the proximity is being applied ! Simple really. Yes, don’t take my kid when there are WAY more logical options !!! pure and simple. Even though I don’t agree w/ all that you said, I have to say, I did enjoy your banter!!
Okay I take back my comment RE: your banter Mr. Hen ! You just like to argue. You are simply here to bait arguments.It’s frankly obnoxious.
Yes, redistricting is a necessary evil. But poor decisions don’t have to be part of the process. The STAC committee should have included parents from all the schools, since they know the neighbohoods the best. They would have ended up with a plan more people can live with, and less problems with these small pockets of orphan neighborhoods. Good Luck, Charlene.
I am always sorry when the need arises to re-district students. However, concerns over “losing friends” or safety simply don’t carry much water. School is for learning. Children are much more resilient than adults. They will make new friends. In some cases, a fresh start may actually benefit students. Concerns over hazardous left turns can be easily laid to rest by simply assigning a traffic officer during dismissal or as previously stated installing a traffic light. If all of the residential development within Harford County had subject to impact fees, we would not need to worry about redistricting. Each community would have financed its own elementary school. We would have smaller schools and a more efficient system which required less overall busing.
Hey SilverFox…get it right please. FightinBluHen51, U of Delaware mascot. Doesn’t indicate that I’m a lady genius. Perhaps we should associate you with Wile E Coyote? At any rate…thanks for making yourself look the part of fool for making assumptions. Unless of course you meant to call a man a chick to be insulting, which makes you look even worse. Resorting to attacking someone based upon their screen handle? Awesome!
Again, since you pompous dolts don’t get it…I said I was tired of reading these stories. They were boring, bitchy, and whiny. Thanks for changing that. Yall bought it hook line and sinker, proving how emotional and irrational the outcry has been. Using all caps in a letter to the Board of Ed to emphasis a point on flawed statistical analysis? Using the numbers series to generate a trend that we want? LOL. Arguments of friends and safety and “for the children.”
Talk about being a country in decline and not having the intestinal fortitude to accept the things we cannot change, worry about the things we can affect, and having the wisdom to know the difference. To me…this issue is nothing more than self-centered and self-serving in nature.
Yall don’t like the fact that a two bit shows up, rains on your parade and finally got some REAL debate going on this issue.
Thank you Jeffery. That is a real number. Finally, someone pointing out a valid argument!
FightinBluHen51, I am glad we could make your day interesting with this back and forth banter. Not to start up this again but I feel the need to point out that it is not up to you whether people should just “accept the things we cannot change”. Personally I find that statement offensive. Why should someone just “accept” something when they feel passionately about their position? Bottom line the situation with FGES is about inaccurate data and fortunately it looks like the Board of Ed is realizing that now. BTW, my child is not affected by this redistricting. I am just being a voice for the 25 children who will be removed from a school they love for ABSOLUTELY no reason at all.
So True ! Why should everyone bend over and take it !! Changes occur because of vocal communities with valid issues with inaccurate data and yes safety issues. I don’t even live in the fountain Green area, but completely agree that it would be irresponsable to put children on a bus and drive them through an intersection that has had over 100 accidents and killed someone. If they would actually put a light or someone directing traffic ect. that would be great. If it hasn’t happened by now it’s not going to. Parents had issue off of 23 & highpoint & guess what. They are now not being redistricted because of that interesection . So Good for you Fountain Green Keep writing letters and I believe you’ll be spared!
Sorry FightingBlueHen51 of the University of Delaware for ruffling your feathers. I got your reference to the user name and the college, and I get your reference to the fox and the coyote, and am sorry that you mistook my play on user names — fox and the hen(house) reference as an attempt to profile you as a woman, it is just that a hen is the female parent of a baby chicken (chick), and the sound that they make is referred to as clucking. No personal attack intended, just an attempt at a little humor.
But when you wrote “I honestly don’t know how I’d feel if my kid was being up rooted from friends and familiar teachers. I would probably even be a little pissed about it as well. However, in the scheme of life, this isn’t even a zit on someones butt” I got the sense that if you had a child caught up in the mix, you would probably educate yourself regarding the details of the proposed redistricting plan, as so many people have. And if you did care to offer your thoughts to the BOE (who openly asked for input) and in other public forums, and the results of your comments lead to a final plan whereas more schools will be under capacity while moving fewer students, then I would applaud you and everyone else (citizens, STAC, and BOE) who helped forge a better plan.
Please Charlene, please. Tell me where in any of my comments I said that you do not have the right to question, participate, or even offer alternatives? I’m pretty sure that I advocated for your rights to do such. In contrast to your statements, I have the right to disagree with you, and even call these things senseless if I so choose.
Offended? The only thing that is offended are your feelings, else you would have walked away. I didn’t say you should accept anything, read the whole quote, you know, it’s actually from the bible. Seems you don’t have the wisdom to know the difference, which is what that quote is precisely about.
To me, this whole issue is trivial in nature, and from the lack of debate here (except for this article), I think it shows that the majority of the county could care less. My question is, does a preK-5th grade student even understand the implications of this? Or will they simply just go to school like they always have, potentially at a different one and missing a few familiar faces? We’ve heard the parents complaints, but I haven’t seen one letter from a kid who’s actually going to be affected.
What are the numbers again, only about 500 students out of 17,000 preK through 5th grade are affected by any redistricting plans? We’re moaning and groaning over roughly 2% of the total enrollment in the county? Drill it down to any individual community where you have 25 kids that are affected like in yours (though I will assume you aren’t even in the community since your kid is unaffected) and you have a number that is less than .2%? Two tenths of a percent necessitates 1+ article or open letter a week?
Hell, I’ll give ya the benefit of the doubt, and let’s triple the headline number to 1,500 kids and that pushes the total percent to 8.9% affect. While that’s more “noise” than 2%, it still means that over 90% of the base enrollment is unaffected. Seems to me that the redistricting committee is being fairly efficient. I’ll even quadruple your kids per neighborhood argument from 25 to 100. The net result would be .58% of the total HCPS preK-5 enrollment affected. In the business world, that’s peanuts in this paragraph, meaning the proceeding paragraph is even more trivial.
These are the reasons I have called it like I see it; and the way I have seen it is the it has been “me me me me.” If this is the way the community and the county reacts to an “issue,” I’d hate to see the outcry in Harford County if it was something like the protests in Wisconsin over public employee unions being negated (which is in fact a real issue).
Look, I come across as brash, cocky, and a bit pompous, but let us not mince words here…this issue is exactly what I called it in my first post, about as worthless as udders on a bull. There are those who are affect, and those who aren’t, but in the end the county is still providing a service for which you pay, and trying to do it with the best performance possible and with the least cost involved. That is exactly how the government is supposed to work.
For less than 10% of the population affect, those 10% have been awfully vocal. We don’t have majority rule, we don’t have minority rule, we have a bureaucratic rule here in this instance. It seems to me that the BoE has done it’s best to remain as independent as possible, and keep the interests of the stakeholders (tax payers and the kids) in check. As someone who pays taxes, I need to know that they are doing their best to use their resources to the highest return for $ spent, and it seems that some want to ensure that isn’t the case (not necessarily you, let’s be clear, since I don’t want to offend you further).
I’m done…it’s been fun. I’ve laughed, I’ve cried, I’ve lived, I’ve loved. I hope yall get a good outcome, I’m just ready to stop reading about it in my local press.
Good luck Charlene and keep pressing the BOE with the facts! If they wish to base their decision on poor, inaccurate assumptions, they should and will be challenged. A fact-based assumptions regarding numbers will get us all where we need to go. Ignore the “suck it up” crowd!
Well Mr. Hen looks like maybe we had some facts afterall !! Good Job Charlene. It just goes to show you that when you stay in the fight and keep pushing the facts and the logic, you will come out on top !!! Finally some logical moves !
Thanks Fed Up and Courtenay! The BOE made the right decision and Fountain Green Heights deserves a round of applause for their efforts! It really shows when people band together and fight that you can really make a difference.