From Tom Lusardi:
The viewpoint of BOE is unclear in their redistricting in Fallston. They are not viewing the redistricting through the eyes of the children, the parents, or the teachers. Rather, this seems to have been just a numbers game – pull 100 from here and add 75 there. They might as well be talking about potatoes. Unfortunately, those “potatoes” ARE the fabric of the community, and we the parents are forced to pay for the public school system every day in our taxes!
In part, the basis for constructing the new Red Pump School with OUR tax dollars was to alleviate above-desired attendance, possibly even at YBES. The Red Pump area constitutes the northern boundary of the YBES district, and the new school is in fact situated very near the northern boundary of YBES’ district. We are now told that Red Pump will come on line in 2011 virtually 100% capacity of its construction, yet there is absolutely no movement of the northern YBES district boundary within just ½ mile from Red Pump school. No, the children who currently attend YBES in this area, and live very close to Red Pump ES will continue attending YBES. Considering that this new school clearly has done nothing with the number of students attending YBES, our community maintains that the YBES district lines do not need adjustment – not in the northern area, nor the western area at Upper Crossroads. This is consistent with the past decade or more of attendance at YBES. Yes, YBES has been over its original design capacity for many, many years, but clearly NO PARENT, NO NEIGHBORHOOD, NO ADMINISTRATOR, NO TEACHER, AND NO STUDENT seeks a change at YBES. On the contrary, the community and children have never been so active and involved in their school. The parents and children give their time, energy, expertise and monies above and beyond the support of the County to ensure that the school remains equipped for education in this century.
Considering that YBES was never really a target of a problem that needed to be resolved in the first place (like Emmorton or the Route 40 corridor), and the new Red Pump School construction had zero impact on YBES, we, the Fallston community, merely ask that the BOE DOES NOT seek to alter the current district boundary in any way. This will benefit both Jarrettsville and YBES by keeping their communities intact. Although the current BOE has made comments to the affect that they are not concerned about “community” and other factors in the redistricting plan, WE, the parents, the neighborhoods, the teachers, and most of all THE CHILDREN are very committed to the most important focal point of our community – Youth’s Benefit Elementary School. We trust that the BOE can see this connection and its importance to our day-to-day lives here in Harford County.
Respectfully,
Tom Lusardi
Fallston resident, parent, taxpayer, voter
Funny you argue that if you can not send kids to the new school you want to stay overcrowded. The Red Pump school was to relieve overcrowding at ALL schools. That is why it is COMPREHENSIVE redistricting. Route 40 did not have many overcrowding issues that I knew of? As a tax payer too I do not want to continue to pay for more temporary classrooms that are not cost effective. I would rather those dollars go into the classroom for the kids!
Yes, it is funny how that new school is supposed to help “overcrowding” yet it has not changed any of the attendence lines in the area. So now we have a brand new school opening at 100% capacity and we are going to do some major bussing to fill that school when their is a community surrounding the facility that could probably walk to school, but will be bussed to a different school instead. Some of us are trying to apply a little logic and common sense, and it’s not very appealing to have 5 year old kindergarten students “commute” to school 45-55 minutes each way.
YBES is very overcrowded. There are schools at 60% capacity and other at 110%. If you don’t like where your kids are going to go to school, move. This entire comprehensive redistricting is to equally distribute capacity. Campus Hills should have been built as well, but we all know why that didn’t happen. So we’re going to have to send our kids where there can be more equality for all. Not just for those who feel they can call the shots. Many districts I’ve lived in previously redistricted every five or so years, parents and kids got use to it. Kids aren’t singled out but will have some of their friends with them. We need to understand and accept what needs to be done, or have property taxes raised to add on to school buildings, would you like to do that Mr. Lasardi?
Mr. Anderson, parent, Harford County Resident, taxpayer and voter as well.
Neal – first off, the “overcrowding” at YBES has existed for more than a decade. Of all the schools that have been refurbished or rebuilt in that time, YBES has not been one. If anything, the said overcrowding reduces the costs per student because there is no excess staff put in place – this is why it is defined as “overcapacity.” The numbers fluctuate everywhere every year. YBES was not even slated to have its boundary adjusted, but was thrown due to pressure in other areas. If you step back for a moment and envision no change for this school and a few others in the County, it helps focus on where communities want and need to make small adjustments. Instead, the BOE is “fixing” one problem while creating several more. I can only speak specifically about the Fallston issue, but many others – North Bend, Jarrettsville, Prospect Mill and more have the same issue.
Please take a look at school development data. YBES was scheduled to be completely rebuilt just like others, and that project has been put on hold indefinitely – and the community was ok with that. Not whiners, we just care and like most parents, we want the best possible public education for our current tax dollars without shipping our kids halfway across the County.
Over crowding does not save money. The staffing is done on a per pupil basis if kids move….teachers and staff will to. They will go to a school getting an increase.
Let’s put it another way. Let us take away the temporary classrooms from YBES and stick more kids in each class and see if you still like it.
CDEV – there have been 3 portables at YBES for 10 yrs. Those portables were also used to justify not building a new school. In this case, a status quo here, and in other locations will not result in added costs, just costs remaining the same. There is no savings by taking blocks of children who live within 2.5 miles of a school and shipping them 7.5 miles to a different location. That is exactly what is planned in this part of the county. We, the people who actually live here, don’t want to do that. There are others who feel the same way in other districts. Now it is suggested that we need to simply “obey” because someone knows better? I’d be happy to discuss this in person rather than this forum – I’ll certainly try to be at public meetings. This plan may work for some places, but there are definitely other places in which it makes no sense. It sounds like you are happy with it and I’m not. I hope we can all work it out.
You do know those prtables are leased! They cost more to keep clean then say a normal classroom, they cost more to heat and aircondition then a normal classroom. Particularly when that classroom is already being heated and airconditioned in another building (like Jarrettsville) and sitting empty. These are recurring costs! They would be eliminated with a movement of students to another building. This means the money could be spent on something else or not needed at all! Portables cost EXTRA money every year they are used. The fact that it has been there for 10 years does not mean it was all paid then and does not continue to drain the system!
Ok CDEV… if we move all the children like you say we should. Then exactly when do you think they will get rid of the portables? Currently at our school we have a portable that is being used as storage and for our enrichment teacher. NO STUDENTS! However, we are still paying for it to be heated and air conditioned. Do you think they will all be gone by next September? I think not. They will be used just not by students!
Yes but not replaced as there will be no need for them. This will result in future long term savings.
Why can’t the poster have the guts to tell the truth and admit that Fallston does not want redistricting because they do not want any new development?
Since they believe that the rules we all live under should not apply to them, perhaps the unelected leaders of The Greater Fallston Metropolitan Area should draw up plans for secession from Harford County?
Or maybe a bill to allow them special treatment like this in exchange for sharply increased taxes?
How about that one, Tom? How much extra are you willing to pay to maintain the status quo when the rest of the county is affected by this? Or should you be immune from any changes just because, well, you know…
Fallston is currently open to development according to the 7/1/10 Harford County Growth Report http://www.harfordcountymd.gov/PlanningZoning/Download/1302.pdf
Only Emmorton ES and Prospect Mill ES are currently shut down through APFO, so Fallston’s development door is already open regardless of what happens with redistricting.
That is not true. The capacity ratings that are used to determine if development can be approved are based on three year projections, and these projections are based on redistricting children from YBES, Forest Lakes, and Hickory to Red Pump. The projected attendance for these three schools for 2012 is 2,497, and the combined capacity of these three schools plus Red Pump Elementary will be 2,756, for a combined utilization rate of 90.6%. (page 2 of Executive Summary, 2009 Annual Growth Report from your link).
Without moving the YBES boundaries through redistricting, the attendance projections for YBES are 117% in 2011 and 119% in 2012 (Table 6). Preliminary plans for major subdivisions (greater than five lots) cannot be approved in elementary and secondary school districts where the full-time enrollment currently exceeds, or is projected to exceed, 110% of the rated capacity within three years (Page 2).
APFO’s recent modifications make the assumption that the BOE will balance enrollment when new seats are due to become available. With projected capacity at Red Pump, the following assumption is made in the Growth Report —
“Based on an analysis of the total available capacity as compared to the projected total enrollment, it is anticipated that the utilization rate of Red Pump Elementary and the three adjacent schools: Forest Lakes, Hickory, and Youth’s Benefit will fall under the 110%
utilization as required by the Adequate Public Facilities ordinance.”
Which leaves Emmorton ES and Prospect Mill ES as the only districts still currently under moratorium.
Yes, “Which leaves Emmorton ES and Prospect Mill ES as the only districts still currently under moratorium” is true, but you also stated “Only Emmorton ES and Prospect Mill ES are currently shut down through APFO, so Fallston’s development door is already open regardless of what happens with redistricting.” The last part of that statement is incorrect. The projections do not consider the ramifications of excluding YBES from any redistricting. If no students are mmoved from YBES, development will, by law, be halted in Fallston.
Phil Dirt,
Fallston’s development door is currently open. With the timing of the redistricting, it will remain open for at least 1 year (January update will still assume enrollment will be reduced by current redistricting action). Whatever permits are issued before the July 2011 Growth Report update will be valid and cannot be rescinded by P&Z if the BOE does not redistrict to lower enrollment at YBES. At that time the projections “without redistricting” for YBES hold true, and the moratorium imposed again, but with a number of active valid permits possible.
All I’m saying is that halting development is not a valid argument for the YBES school community, will not accepted by the BOE, and don’t be surprised if a new development sign soon shows up down the street, economy permitting.
AMEN!
The whole thing stinks and those in Fallston who are using their children as pawns in a game to stop development should be ashamed for exploiting children like that.
You know what enough is enough. You are insulting an entire community and have no grounds what so ever !! Grow up and get yourself. I thought highschool was long gone!
As I explained earlier….I have seen and heard from many people in that community which has painted my view of them. I also recognize that there are other members of that comunity who turn and shake their head when they hear it.
Well sir, you haven’t driven through the area recently I guess. There are plots for sale and subdivided all over the place and the fact is they’ve been sitting there for years. Development is a small piece of the argument. The fact is that the BOE started the redistricting because of pressure in the Emmorton/Rt 40 area. There are a significant number of students in the area yet they are not able to use the available space in Edgewood or Paca for other reasons. This is ridiculous to the taxpayers as we are funding this big shuffle while the BOE keeps a few schools far below capacity due to social reasons – nobody want their kids to go to those schools. Check the facts before you try to slam the Harford Cty communities. Many communities are being presented with similar long drives and divides within their own communities – not exactly putting the children first.
It is not putting your children first when you advocate keeping them in temporary trailers to control development in a community. Route 40 has little overcrowding issues Emmorton and Prospect Mill have HUGE issues. Edgewood ES has a program which requires that extra space for it to opperate as do a few other route 40 schools. They have these programs because they have the space to hold them. That said it is not waisting money bvy bringing the schools under or at capacity. It is saving money. No more temporary classrooms, which the BOE leases and cost more money to run.
My last thought I wanted to share. My family has been to Zambia, Africa for two different summers volunteering with HIV/AIDS orphans. We left the village we are working with and walked to the nearest school. Can anyone in Harford County imagine students that sit 4-5 at one desk, dirt floors, no electricity or running water. The bathroom is two disgusting outhouses that are too gross to comment on. The economy is so poor it can’t provide even one pencil and paper to each student, IF they have the $5 per year tuition. Lunch is unheard of. The teacher’s supplies are pathetic, and there are many areas of the world similar.
We are so incredibly blessed in this country, especially in Harford County and are so quick to be aggressive for what is “best” for our children. Don’t you understand we already have the best in the world? Really, put everything in perspective and this is not so important. Even if they have to RIDE a heated or air conditioned bus 45 minutes, other countries see children walking without shoes for an hour.
It’s all good …truly it is.
BTW if I sell a plot to a single individual it is not a housing development. They can then build one house! That is not protected against in APFO. This is why the developer is doing that. selling land.
Wow !”PHil Dirt” You certainly sound really bitter. Interesting veiw point that you have about “all of Fallston” where exactly to you live, maybe YOU should move if you are sooo unhappy there. I happen love where I live and not because I think I’m “special”. Forget about Fallston and take a look at the plan around the entire county. 70% of the moves are unneccesary. It is not logical !!! Do you think it is logical to send 12 kids that live 1.5 miles from there school 15 miles away??? Over an hour on a bus. Huh PHIL ??? I a Fallston resident am concerned and fighting for everyone who is getting it stuck to them. I’d even fight for you Phil.So get over the problem w/ Fallston and see it for what it is !!
That does not sound logical but please do tell where in the plan is that occuring?
Dublin/Darlington
A lot of good information comes from those Board meetings.
While I am sure alot of information comes out. Some may be exagerated. While it appears spaces on Gavelton and Franklin Church road maybe with in 1.5 miles of Dublin ES driving. I do get only about 12 miles to the new school and by no means a bus ride that reaches the amount of time suggested!
Further more if I am wrong in my math…..you provided one example, that is a grossly exagerated 70% claim? Do you have data to support this?
cdev,
the “15 mile re: Dublin came from a parent that spoke at the meeting Monday Night. She said that being only 1.5 miles away takes 30 minutes on the bus, so she was livid at the thought that that time could double. I couldn’t tell you I’ve not been out there.
That is what people need to remember if a 1.5 mile ride takes 30 minutes it does not increase linear. The pick up part will be realatively constant and then a straight trip at a constant rate of speed.
Where did I say “all of Fallston”? Are you confused?
Yep, I probably am! there is so much Fallston finger pointing going on and I Don’t believe anyone said that they realize that not everyone that lives in Fallston Is above it all. I know that I certainly don’t think I am, nor to my neighbors. Just don’t like being classified as something that I’m not. The crowds I run with certainly aren’t the “Fallston” ya’ll are referring to. Peace out!
Another example of someone thinking that his town is the “district” and not looking at the big picture, that Harford County is the entire district. Quite frankly, I’m getting tired of all of these “everyone but me” letters to the BOE.
Personally, I love how all these letters try to make it sound like elementary age kids have any concept about these issues.
Sir – what is the plan called that is in draft form? It is a re-districting plan and it applies to each and every school district within the County. That is the origin of the term – each school has its district and that is what is being discussed with the BOE. I don’t think anyone disagrees that some districts need adjustment, but not all of them. I tried to make it clear that I cannot comment specifically on areas outside of where I live, but my arguments are valid in many districts. As the BOE indicated – they are going to look at the best interest of the children, AND consider community issues and distances. If you’re happy with the plan, there really isn’t much use in arguing. If you’re unhappy with the draft, now is the time to discuss it with the BOE – I thought that’s what we were all doing?
Mr. Lusardi, you are confusing “attendance areas” with “school districts.” Harford County Public Schools is the school district.
My apologies Sarah – I grew up in an area where the “attendance area” was called a “district”. I’m sorry if that caused confusion – it’s hard to shake the term after nearly 50 years.
That’s interesting Tom. Just out of curiosity, where did you move here from and when? My informal research indicates that in general, those who have lived here the shortest amount of time complain the loudest about everything.
There is also a multiplier effect whereby folks who like to think they live in “Fallston” and have lived here for 25 years or less complain ten times more than any other demographic in the County.
It should be noted however that people who actually live IN Fallston (basically the homes in walking distance of the post office) do not complain nearly as much as the people who live NEAR Fallston (in fancy McMansions on former farmland on the outskirts of the old village, with their coveted 21047 zip code).
Anonymous “Professor” – You seem to want to attack me rather than pay attention to the concerns raised throughout the County on this issue. The oldest parts of Fallston certainly should be “safe” from extended bussing considering its location and proximity to all of the Fallston schools. Yet this very concept is what is under attack under the draft plan.
Both young and old in age, and new and old in the community choose what is important for themselves. I have been here plenty long to understand and differentiate between plausible and illogical. I am addressing “illogical” in the hope of provoking additional thought and consideration by the BOE. Duration in a community is irrelevant to challenging this plan and every taxpayer and resident has a right to be engaged in this.
Anonymous Professor – Is it more responsible to challenge a concept that negatively affects many Harford County residents (including myself), or to ignore and accept that concept without question?
Oh no! Not in my district everything’s just hunky dory here. Just go ahead and shuffle the low lifes down on the Route 40 corridor. Leave us to our lilly white safe haven!
I agree I dislike the whinny do not move me folks….like this one. I don’t mind the people who actually use data and look at the data and present an alternative or good reason. Sadly there are so few of them. The best one is the Fountian Green one. I also find it apaulling that some of these folks will use their kids as pawns. I agree they need to say that they just want to keep YBES overcrowded to stop development in Fallston. The “Gator-ade” newsletter on the YBES website seems to include a discussion about this every year from the PTA. I also like how they are littering all over their community with signs.
finish….
Maybe I should make some signs and put them up in Fallston expressing my opinion!
No need to post signs, CDEV, your opinion is crystal clear. Your anti-Fallston bias can’t possibly be misinterpreted by anyone. Do you hate us for our freedom? Because we couldn’t be bothered with sidewalks? What is it? Or were those grapes too sour anyway?
Anti-Fallston bias? — more likely he is displaying an aversion to the “anti-everyone else in Harford County” attitude that has been demonstrated by Fallston folks for years.
There seems to have always been a NIMBY mentality coming from people living in Fallston. A quiet, pretentious arrogance that says “leave us alone and don’t bother us with the issues that face the people of Harford county”.
It’s just that now, when the issues that face the rest of the county are affecting the precious overcrowded population at YBES, and they don’t have control — that the attitude becomes less quiet and more apparent.
The idea that the BOE should leave one school overcrowded while there are 1700 empty seats in the county’s elementary schools is ludicrous.
Keep puttin up your signs and putting your kids in “Stop the re-districting” t-shirts. It just clarifies what ego-centric jerks live in Fallston. It would probably be better for the Jarrettsvill community is the board did keep the kids there — The apple typically does not fall far from the tree.
John I think has explained my bias well. But I would qualify it. I know many fine people in Fallston. Some with kids in school and some without. Some who will be redistricted (or maybe) and some who wont. We have talked about this. Some are moving and understand why. SOme are moving and are not happy. I know some however who flat out tell me they don’t want redistricting because it would lift the moratorium on building. They are fine with the county spending more on portables. At least they have the cajones to be honest about it. I still find it wrong. I find more repugnant those who are doing the same thing but give other excuses. I also know people at Jarrettsville who find the behavior of some of the Fallston parents repugnent and offensive to their community.
Furthermore my attitude was jaded a few years ago during highschool redistricting at the mall. I was asked to sign a petition to keep Fallston from being torn apart. I said I did not believe the premise and was then told I should sign it “to keep the Trash from Joppatowne out” This position angered me. This ignorance is what agervates me. I have seen the same thing being suggested in other YBES threads. BTW HS redistricting did not tear apart Fallston and neither will this!
AMEN Billy !! Can’t feel good to that bitter !
Gentlemen – the Rt 40 area is being used as a pawn in this exercise. The entire county is affected by this plan. Some believe this is a divisive issue in their communities, others don’t want to see even more bussing, and everyone should be keeping an eye on property values, overdeveloping and poor planning – it is our tax dollars that fund it. Objection to this plan is hardly whining. Do you like to see a child from Joppa shipped on a bus 10 miles to elementary school? How about some questions about why Paca and Edgewood will remain below capacity? Do those communities care about this issue? Of course they do. The fact is that many in those communities are already bussing their children ridiculous distances – and those parents are very concerned about the local schools.
First off it is not the BOE’s job to worry about property value. Second What child from Joppa will be treked 10 miles (that isn’t already) under this plan? Edgewood remains below capacity because of a unique program it houses that requires the extra space, which is availible there. Paca remains that way because of the Title 1 NCLB requirements.
I realize it’s slightly off the original topic, but I’d ask for some consideration on the property value concept. These lines cannot fluctuate regularly or unpredictably for many reasons. We probably all agree one primary reason is for the benefit of the children to have consistency in schooling. However, the unspoken issue is also property values. Unpredictability or unpopular school attendence zones would absolutely hit the housing market swiftly and predictably. This in turn would have an impact to the County’s tax revenue potential. You better believe that the BOE is talking to the County Council on these issues – and to land developers. You slam certain areas in the County for trying to control development or overdevelopment, but the County is the driving force in zoning and school districting. For instance, nobody wants to buy a house in Bulle Rock and bus their children to North Bend – that defies logic and lifestyles (life as a taxi driver parent). These issues are connected whether we like it or not.
For Tom:
Now we see the real “unspoken” issue many in Fallston have with the redistricting draft plan. While many have speculated about this “unspoken” issue you have clearly brought it out into the open and justified the criticism others have leveled at some Fallston residents. Also your allegation that BOE and County Council members are talking to land developers on redistricting issues is without basis and is completely false. To suggest this is to cast doubt on their integrity without evidence or worse suggests something illegal is going on. If you have such evidence then produce it. If not then stick to an argument that is in support of the best interest of school children.
Tom if we let property value drive this decision we would never be able to do what needs done. It is not the BOE’s job to look at your property value.
To Anonymous J –
I highlighted the value point merely to state the obvious. I can only assume that you live in America and that you live in a house. Have you ever heard of the term “Location, location, location?” I know you’ll be surprised, but I did not create that term. A physical home, the land it sits on, the community in which it exists and yes, the schools to which the children will attend are so important to the value of a property that all of that information is prominently displayed in a multiple listing advertisement for a homesale. The price that a home fetches is also so tightly connected to local and State government that THEY are reliant on maintaining the highest possible values. Why? Because those people in those expensive homes will pay the highest tax bill to the County and State – very simple game of numbers. So perhaps more than the individual homeowner, the elected officials cannot affort to see widespread devaluation of property in their districts (and I’m not suggesting that’ll happen any more than it has over the past 5 years). This is just an aside, I was merely pointing out the link and interest that our County and State governments have in this reshuffle exercise.
Tom we understand the reality is school redistricting will effect property values some good and some bad. To be honest a move from YBES to jarretsville should not impact your value that much. Try living on the south side of singer road versus the north side!
That said the BOE can not take your desire for property value into account. I also think that while location drives the market it does not drive property assessments as much as you may think.
Mr. CDEV, I did not suggest that this was my argument or anyone else’s, yet it is an underlying concern all over by residents and gov. officials at State and County levels. It is also a major focus and worry in the real estate and development communities. However, there are many arguments far better than this one – as I stated, it was merely an aside.
Mr. LUSARDI,
By even bringing it us as an aside, it certainly casts doubt on your sincerity about being concerned for the children.
The Board of Education has no authority over residential development, and the value of your home is not a factor in determing how many students fill any of the school buildings. The facilities are rated at certain capacities, and there are over 1500 empty elementary school seats in the county. Students have to move in order to balance enrollment whether your property value is going to be affected.
Your “aside” is a weak argument really anyway as the lines between the southern harford schools and the northern ones has remained mostly untouched. The most drastic changes in property values would most probably occur in the re-drawing of the Rt-40 school boundaries, not in your beloved YBES/Jarrettsville area.
The lack of understanding of the “aside thread” shows why it is not practical or possible to advance any sort of detailed plan. Can you please re-read – I said that the valuation issue is not the basis of my argument or of this community as far as I know! It was an “aside” – another point that touches on this issue and has far more significance with State and Local governments, real estate folks and developers (period). We can talk about the American Dream another time – I’ll stick to redistricting for now.
For Tom
Your latest post only serves to further undermine your credibility. You opened a can of worms that you can no longer control or close. You continue to dig the hole deeper with every post so please stop. Unless of course you want to apologize to the members of the BOE and County Council for your earlier comments.
What about using Roye Williams Elementary School for the “Special Programs?” That school has dipped in capacity and isn’t probably going to increase much since we have lost the soldiers at Aberdeen. If there are other programs too they could go there and that school could be used instead of Edgewood.
Also, the situation with WSJ should be looked at since it is in close proximity to Emmorton Elementary which is overcrowded. If Wllliam Paca gets out of state takeover, that will change the mix there. Maybe the superintendent should look at having them go somewhere else since that school should be used for local capacity.
Hi Cdev,
You appear to be someone in the know. I am one of those that helped craft the Fountain Green plan. In addition, I added to that plan to show the domino affect upon leaving Stone Ridge in Fountain Green (capacity is within parameters for Fountain Green while providing a buffer to Homestead/Wakefield and potentially Red Pump , Ring Factory, Emmorton and Bel Air). I sent this plan to the website yet I have heard no feedback. Does the BOE intend to respond to questions/alternate plans prior to a final decision? Any input would be welcome.
I only know what I read and hear. The difference is I (and it appears you) am some of the few people who are being rational and listening. According to the website and the dagger article by Cindy about Joe Licata’s presentation they plan on replying to the e-mails. Not all of them (like the crazy don’t move my kid crowd). They also plan on putting common questions and answers in the FAQ page. I heard back about a concern I had and sent in but I sent mine in early.
So I am to take serious the people who post on this board. You know the ones with their snarky remarks, comments about a community they do not live in and then the hiding behind nicknames, cause you lack the class to include your own name.
Yes Fallston wants whats best for Fallston, jeez what a terrible idea that is. NOT! Just as Joppatowne should want whats best for them and Belair should for them. It is what you are suppose to do.
Why not stop crying about those mean old Fallston people and go out and try to make your neighborhood better.
Please before you respond, remember to be a grown up and post your name. I cannot take you serious if you do anything less.
We are not crying….we are laughing! They can have what is best for fallston when it effects only them. Not when it adversly effects others. That is the point alot of us have. There is a symbiotic relationship here.
I applaud those who want to do what they feel is right for their children, neighborhood, and community.
When some mention controlling development, they need to understand that controlling development is a function of the County Council, not the BOE through redistricting.
Other districts and other states redistrict school lines every year as needed. Harford County has a good school system and I think way too many emotions are eruping from panicing parents. If the students get bussed several miles from the closest elementary school, is it that horrible? An opportunity to meet new friends and experience perhaps different cultures is not necessarily bad. People are dying of AIDS, starving, and who knows what the terrorists are planning for the future? Put elementary redistricting in perspective folks!
I would be curious to hear from parents whose children are currently in a route 40 school and who are being redistricted (from the looks of it, there aren’t a lot). For example, it looks like students in the Long Bar Harbor area are being redistricted from William Paca to either Deerfield or Edgewood Elementary. To my knowledge, there haven’t been any letters published to the BOE. Curious – are those parents ok with the plan, indifferent, in favor, etc. Would be interested to hear their opinions.
well since over 100 kids (parents) from Paca decided not to stay there this year when given the choice – that says something. The options were WSJ or Deerfield. Paca is an over crowded failing Title 1 school and Edgewood Elem is also Title 1.- Deer field is neither. Which would you rather go to? There’s not a lot of redistricting here because our schools aren’t over crowded. Deerfield’s new school was built for growth to the tune of like 400 extra seats.
The reason a majority of kids left Paca was because Wm. S. James has airconditioning and Paca doesn’t. Not a great reason but one I’m for as kids who are sweating aren’t learning as well as they should. The majority of Route 40 schools have space and maybe if we redistricted and had a nice mix of kids everyone would do better. The schools have the teachers from Harford County, they are good teachers who have the same curriculum and standards as northern Harford Count. So what’s the problem, not wanting you kids to go to school and make friends with kids who aren’t as well off? Hmmm….. could this be the issue we’re skating around?
I understand that a lot of students left Paca. What I thought was odd was that many chose WSJ over DES. The cynic in me says that it has more to do with WSJ being in the “Bel Air” area (although a few kids go to EMS/EHS from WSJ unless that’s changed by now). Had I had to choose for my kid, I would have picked DES (new school, undercapacity, etc) – it would have been a no-brainer. Personally, I’m just as glad that my children attend a Route 40 school. I’m pleased with the education they’re receiving and class sizes are great!
The new Deerfield has A/C so I don’t think that’s why they chose WSJ. When I called Deerfield 2 yrs ago they told me they were building a new school because they didn’t have A/C – right…Yes the teachers are great. My whole point is yes, come to Deerfield, we have the teachers, the A/C and the room for lots of kids….so are you coming?
I’m confused. What elementary age child would be subjected to a 45-55 minute bus ride? For years my neice and nephew had a 50 minute plus ride from their home in Dublin to North Harford Middle and Elementary School, and they accepted it and were thankful that mom didn’t have to drive it. Then they chose to go to Harford Tech and had a similar commute, as to many teens that go to Tech. I agree elementary kids shouldn’t be subject to such a long ride, but where in the world does a 45-55 minute ride come into play, even if a boundary extends 10 miles from school. Most kids are picked up in relatively close neighborhoods and then go straight to school full (or semi-full hopefully).
Brenda – I know last night was just a sampling, but there were several parents that would absolutely see one way bus trips well beyond 45 minutes for k-5 graders. It is just one example of why it is so important for all of the communities impacted to speak up with the BOE. And by the way, those communities feel that they aren’t impacted are deluding themselves. There is a knock on effect all the way around the county – you can start at either end and work around the perimeter to see it. From Fallston, the dominos fall in Jarrettsville, Norrisville, North Bend and even extending to Forest Hill and Darlington (or the reverse direction). So many of the arguments are similar from area to area and the BOE must hear it. Fallston gets attacked by a few guys – so what. I’d welcome a sitdown discussion, because I’d guarantee their children and schools are affected in ways they’ve never imagined.
Tom everyone is affected because itis COMPREHENSIVE. That is what this means.
It is very interesting that people can claim to want what’s best for “all of Harford County” and in the same sentence be completely dismissive, aggressive and belittling toward residents of the western part of the county. I guess we have less rights than you? We may disagree on on this plan, but there is little room for the name calling and disrespect to fellow citizens. I hope you too are supportive of your children and their schools. I, and many others simply cannot argue on behalf of other schools that should be left alone – that’s the way the BOE has structured this plan. I feel that many of the Rt 40 schools, Abingdon and Prospect Mill are also being carved up inappropriately – but that has to be left to the parents in those areas. Your apparent disdain for Fallston undermines any constructive thoughts you might have in this matter.
Fallston residents have brought on this disdain for many years. It is only becoming apparent now because they are acting like they deserve special treatment because their homes are in the western part of the county.
The movement of your children is in the best interest of the entire school district. Your self-serving interests blind you to that fact.
You have not looked at the plan if you feel Abingdon is being carved up innappropriately……It isn’t getting touched! It is because of Prospect Mill’s situation and Emmorton’s and to a lesser extent a few others like YBES. We have to do this. PMES has to be carved up. Problem is it is so central it makes that hard.
I can’t believe fixing the A/C in the old DES was more expensive than building a new school so I’m sure there were other needed repairs but I’m sure glad they did. The school still has the great teachers, now A.C beautiful facilities, a solid education with room for growth (that was planned). All have always been welcomed but if people don’t want to come to DES that’s fine by me, their loss. They can stay in the overcrowded “only standardized test scores and sports matter” schools, there are plenty of them. Our kids actually learn how to think and we like it the way it is thank you.
The program EHS is the IB program and it should stay in Edgewood. It is a great program so great in fact even a few people in Fallston send their kids to EHS – can you imagine? Fallston people in Edgewood !?!?!? (sorry I couldn’t resist) The program attracts kids (parents) from all over and they are bussed. It is a very long ride by school bus and a transfer from Fallston to Edgewood but it’s such a great program for many the trip is worth it to those parents (and kids)and yet others complain about a 15 min ride. The ride isn’t the issue, parents drive their kids to private schools all over and I bet if you ask any parent if a school offered something they wanted for their kid they would get that kid to that school no matter how long the ride or how they’d make it happen.
That is a high school program (14 yr old to 18 yr old). We’re talking about 5-10 year olds in elementary school.
Sorry Tom, my mistake I was responding to something I read in error.
As a resident of Fallston, I never knew so many fellow Harford Countians had such deep, negative feelings towards us. Why? What have we done? Do you folks dislike everyone as much or is it just Fallstonians? Maybe we should petition Sheriff Bane (a long time resident of Fallston) to build a big, barbed wire fence and a stagnant moat all around the periphery of Fallston. Me thinks we need some serious protection from all the haters and ill-will wishers…..
No, it’s just Fallstonians. Your comment reflects exactly what the problem is; historically, a large number of Fallston residents have wanted “protection” from the rest of the county. They resisted any change whatsoever, including fighting cell towers, a supermarket, the senior center, gas pipelines, bridge rebuilding, any roadway expansion, etc. There is nothing wrong with wanting less development in your home area, and most folks would agree with some of the battles, but the prevailing attitude has been “No, we want those services, but not here – we’re Fallston! Stick someone else with everything.”
During one of the protests (I believe against a supermarket or fast food store), a Fallston resident was actually quoted as saying something such as, “We don’t want that in our town. If we need that, we can go to Bel Air – that’s what it’s there for.” Comments concerning the Route 40 schools have been much worse than that. Just as with the school system, some residents will not accept that they are one part of the whole County system, not a “special exception”.
It’s very easy for a community to gain the reputation of being elitist, parochial and condescending when some vocal residents repeatedly act elitist, parochial and condescending. I fell sorry for the innocents who are tarred with that brush simply by living in Fallston.
Phil, I certainly was wrong w/ the “all of Fallston” directed at you. You are right about the fact that One person can make a comment that then puts a label on an entire community. At least we can agree on that.
Ironiclly you just demonstrated the attitude that makes us all feel this way! BTW I do not dislike all people from Fallston, just the snobs, which Fallston has alot of!
Another example is calling the new secondary school in Fallston “The Fallston School”
Fallston doesn’t need protection from “haters” they need protection from themselves. It also don’t need to build a fence (the residents attitudes toward ‘everyone not a fallstonian) have manged to build the wall themselves over the years. The schools are good but they are other places too and I appreciate your town pride – other towns feel the same way about theirs. Fallston created it’s oun attiude they’ve displayed for years to the rest of the county which is they feel superior and rules don’t apply to them unless they want them. It can’t have it both ways while continuing to put down the rest of the county, build it’s own walls and then cry “they hate us and we need protection” ugh…
I wish some of the people who seem to be baiting arguments were at the meeting last night. You would have seen many of those terrible Fallston people spending their spare time doing what they feel will help every single student in Harford County. Sure there are affects in Fallston, but it’s not a unique situation. With the exception of a few schools near I-95/Rt 40, every other area, district attendence area, zone (whatever you want to call it)has shifted in ways that are absolutely, clearly not in the best interest of the children. You would have heard it – but it probably wouldn’t change your views toward anyone. The BOE has not yet applied any logic to numerous line shifts, and they cannot answer some of the most fundemental questions about their rationale or potential cost savings.
I can’t answer for any of your past experience with people that have led to your opinions about Fallston or elsewhere, but I assure you that the people that care about this issue are acting mature and responsible in their language and I have heard nothing disrespectful aimed at any one, group, school, etc. – except in this forum.
Are you related to the guy with the same name who wrote this article? How can the two of you have such diverse opinions?
You write that the good Fallstonites are simply “doing what they feel will help every single student in Harford County”, a noble effort working toward the common good. On the other hand, the original author is trying to have his single local school excluded from a countywide redistricting plan, a selfish approach that thumbs its nose at the rest of Harford’s residents.
It’s amazing how two people who seem to have similarities can be so different.
I WAS at the meeting last night, and the “good people of Fallston” were not looking out for all of Harford County, they were looking out for themselves.
Yes, we were fighting for our own neighborhoods and Fallston and also addressed to concerns of all of the northern schools. AND Cheered on people from other communities when they started to break down !! We are not at war ! It is unreal to me that smart people can turn things around and misconstrue good intentions. Simply sad.
That’s all they ever do. Look out for themselves. (even when it’s not in the best interests of their kids)…let’s keep them in an over crowded school just because “we’re Fallston”
You keep looking out for your “town”…duh…it’s not a township…it’s not incorporates…It’s a Zip Code.
Get over yourselves.
John, You’re a class act.
Let us remember that the BOE did not make this draft plan. In fact they had no input. The draft plan was created by the STAC, an internal group of school system employees – with the exception of 2 members of the Harford Co. Planning and Zoning Department. The BOE only saw the draft after it was presented to the Focus Groups. The STAC and BOE are entertaining community input to try to make the plan better than the draft proposal. The need to address school attendance/school capacity problems in Harford Co. has long been over due and now must be faced head on. Comprehensive school redistricting is done yearly in some other counties. The BOE needs to look at developing a policy to at least visit redistricting on a bi-annual basis and make adjustments as necessary (which would most likely lead to more gradual changes) so that such a process does not cause this much turmoil.
My heart weeps for you angry, vitriolic haters. I sure am glad that at the end of a long, exhausting day I can go home to my gated community in Fallston, set my home security system, and have the piece of mind that you madmen can’t unleash a pent-up rampage on my family.
I live in Glenwood in the Patterson Mill School District. My daughter has a boundary exception to go to the new Bel Air High School because she was accepted in to the Bio Medical program. There are also a lot of aggressive parents in Glenwood trying to stop our children from having to go to Homestead/Wakefield when Ring Factory Elementary is right across the street, but we aren’t being picked on like Fallston. Nobody likes change, but why so much Fallston attacking? In my circles, we are TEASING when we say we hate orange, or we hate Fallston, only because their sports teams are so well run, annoyingly amazing and usually beat us. It’s all in fun . . . or at least it is with my neighbors and associates both from Patterson Mill and Bel Air High. I’m asounded at the venom against Fallston residents. I remember even though there were many loud and unhappy parents of students that were pulled from Fallston schools and sent to Bel Air Middle three years ago, EVERY family I know now embraces Bel Air and actually is happy. Does anybody wonder what kind of example we as parents are giving our children when we condemn other areas of the county and call names? I’m a graduate of a Route 40 school (Aberdeen High), a resident of Bel Air for 20 years, and have many friends and associates in Fallston. I thought this thread would produce some good suggestions/compromises for sensible boundary changes, but it has sunken to name calling and criticizing. PEACE everyone,and Merry Christmas.
You raise a very good point in that the redistricted areas from a few years ago have embraced Bel Air. We should remember that. Kids will adjust!
Thanks for that Brenda !!! Believe me , I know that our kids will adjust. When it is such a small group of kids being plucked from their school, It stings !! I feel for all of the small pockets that are potentially being moved. If it was a significant amount of children, I could see some logic in this plan. But as it stands, I can’t. I know Jarrettsville is a great school, no debate there. Jarrettsville wants to keep there community together , so on and so on. Not just Fallston. And poor Dublin will go from 60 something to over 100% capacity. Parents there have expressed concerns about how there school will function at that level. It is all happening tooo fast. That is the problem. Do what is best for ALL of the children, that is the bottom line in all of this. 🙂
Dublin although at 100+ is 100+ by 4 children. YBES is currently over by about 100 children.
I also cant understand the hatred toward Fallston. I applaud them for standing up for what is best for their children,their community, and even their property values. I also support every other community that is doing the same thing. If more people were willing to fight for these things in their own areas,much of Harford County could be as desirable an area as Fallston/western Harford is
Tom,
Thank you for your uniform response. It has only been about common sense and logic and you have not allowed a select few to bait you into losing your composure.
Here’s irony. I’m a late 80s graduate of Aberdeen High and have lived in Fallston with my wife and now 4 year old son since 2005. This is the first sense I have encountered of the extreme vitriol that apparently exists within our country against Fallston residents.
We live just over a mile from YBES and under the draft plan my son is slated to be redistricted to 8 miles away to Jarrettsville elementary (“JES”). What many are missing here is there is no negativity or disrespect intended towards Jarrettsville or JES. None whatsoever. The reality is that the current bus-ride for my neighbor’s daughter to YBES, with stops and pick-up’s is currently close to 30 minutes. What does quadrupling the distance do to the commute time?
The issue of additional commute time is consistent across other schools within the BOE’s proposed redistricting plan. Increasing our children’s commute time to attend a different elementary school three to four times in distance away from the closest school simply doesn’t make sense. This notwithstanding the lack of relationships our children have with children of the community associated with the new, redistricted school. Again, I am emphasizing that this has nothing to do with the new school, be that new school JES, North Bend, or any other elementary school in the county. Fact is, we become familiar with where we live. It’s a natural response.
The select few can bash Fallston residents claiming we are elitist and self-interested…but, with my background and upbringing, I’ll tell you to your face that you are misinformed. My son has a late birthday and will be entering pre-K next year.
We live in Fallston and based on our schedules and ability to transport him, he will go to pre-K in Fallston.
Blame my “supposed” elitist attitude for wanting my son to continue his education at an elementary school where most, if not all, of his pre-K classmates will attend. I’m capable of handling it. I’d rather you view my position as one of common sense and logic in wanting him to go to YBES over sending him to JES, where my family knows very few and day care programs are extremely limited.
It seems we all need to educate ourselves on the issues. I am endeavoring to do so, myself. I hope to see you all at the upcoming high school meetings. Please show me that you are here in the best interest of your children and our county and not here to pursue some other personal interest or past time.
RLP – you are exactly right. Some may not understand clearly, but most of us who disagree with the draft plan are seeking common sense solutions and applying the top two criteria used by the BOE in their judgement – what’s best for the kids and maintaining some sort of community continuity. You can call that what you’d like, but it is all common sense. We heard about children who live 0.2 mi from and elementary school, yet the BOE now plans to bus them 8 miles away – and he’s 5 yrs old!! That’s in North Bend – not my child – and I’d support that parent’s reasoning and argument to the end.
Your situation is generally what we all live. We all select a home based on our work locations and the school systems/access, etc. This is nothing new. There is no need to apologize for choosing a place to live and raise a family.
presuming the bus trip is currently 30 minutes most of that time is spent picking up children in the neighborhood, a factor that will not change the rest is on the distance to be traveled. The greater distance is to be traveled down a road where a bus can maintain a speed of about 40 mph conservatively. so it would take about 12 minutes to travel that distance. your child’s commute time will increase but not dramaticlly. In exchange he will not have to go to a school where the children are in portables which cause an extra economic drain on the county and since your whole neighborhood is going to the same school you will be part of the JES community of students.
When you look at the first priorities as suggested for this It seems as if the board is meeting those. 1) fill Red Pump DONE 2) reduce overcrowding at PMES and area DONE. THis is part of that plan.
What would you prupose to reduce overcrowding at YBES? I ask this in all seriousness because no one has yet to suggest an alternate idea?
Mr. or Mrs CDEV – our specific concepts are being presented to the BOE directly for consideration. Other communities are doing the same for their specific areas. We believe that there are viable options to meet the County objective and to apply some common sense. We are in agreement with Mr. Wolkow’s views on the criteria that should be applied (as he outlined in response to my questions) to the decision of the “lines” and we feel that common sense will play a key role of maintaining community integrity and doing what’s best for the children (all of the Harford County children).
I trust you too have either voiced your specific concerns (to the BOE) or embraced the plan as is. We obviously feel that now is the right time for that dialog with the decision-makers.
I have voiced my opinion via e-mail. I agree it is time for that dialouge. There have been many letter’s to the editor on the dagger. Some have come complete with data and alternate plans. Yours above however does no such thing and in searching this thread I have yet to see anything that resembles that.
I figured general thoughts were more appropriate in this forum. I expounded some in the meeting the other night, and there were additional details offered, but with 3 mins each, that too is not really an effective method of outlining details.
Tom I know 3 minutes is not enough that is why e-mail was a good avenue and sharing on a forum like this.
Mister would be correct
CDEV,
Unfortunately, We do not have a lot of kids in our neighborhood. 2 other kids in my daughters grade. Also, it is my understanding that the portables will remain on the premises. I realize that they wouldn’t need to be heated ect…but still they’d (we’d) still pay to lease them. That tells me that they intend to fill them back up. I will check out the source and get back to you.
Read the FAQ section on the HCPS website. The lease is for a period of time. They clearly say that once retired they will stay retired.
CDEV,
Good to know there are actually answers on the FAQ page now. A couple of days ago there was nothing. They say they will remain “retired” but I have to question that. I’ll take a look at FAQ, should be an interesting read.
Where is David Craig on this issue? Let me tell you. He will not take a position because he is a spineless politician that will want your vote for Governor in 4 years.
CDEV,
According to the STAC, new bus routes under the draft redistricting plan have not been generated…or at least they haven’t provided any county parent with this information. And believe me, it has been requested. That said, I appreciate your thought that the commute time would increase, but we simply do not know how dramatic the change will be at this point.
That’s part of the problem. None of us have been provided with meaningful, accurate data to evaluate whether the draft plan makes sense.
But why did you claim it was over an hour bus ride when it has not been generated? This was my point there is much over reacting and exageration going on. I am sceptical when someone claims their child will have an hour bus ride for 15 miles. That would mean the average speed would be 15 mph. That is just not a valid claim.
I made no such claim the commute would be over an hour. In the absence of concrete information from the BOE or the STAC, some parents have made the reasonable assumption that a current commute of 30 minutes could reasonably increase to an hour or more if the mileage triples or quadruples.
I work in Baltimore…want to know the average speed of my commute for the last two months? Twenty-eight (28) miles per hour. Given the number of bus stops and morning traffic, I wouldn’t find an average speed of 15 miles per hour as an unreasonable estimate.
Wow, I see the natives have settled down a bit. 😉
What do you mean by “natives” Courtenay? Are you referring people who are native Harford Countians, or to the savages who aren’t fortunate enough to live in Fallston? (Or both?) Sounds a little condescending to me. Oh, if only we were all as enlightened as Fallstonians, we might all be able to see the light and follow the lead of a New Jersey transplant like Mr. Lusardi.
Sarah , are you really serious??? You honestly have got to be kidding !!! Talk about hyper sensitive. All I meant is that some of the haters seemed to have calmed down and stuck to the facts. I suppose that doesn’t include you. The immaturity truly shocks me. Wow
Perhaps, Sarah, Courtenay is referring to those completely devoid of any sense of humor. Like you.
Once again Thanks Billy !!!
Happy Holiday posters…I wish you would simply take a moment and really appreciate what you have, how lucky you all are (yes even those being redistricted to areas your upset about)
your little worlds maybe changing ever so slightly as a result of this decision, but compared to so many, you are all very fortunate. People are struggling with many more issues other than which elementary elementary schools are “better” (they are ALL very good – yes even Rte 40 schools)
The children will adjust without horrible trauma. Kids meet new friends – it’s what they do.
I hope it turns out to be a good upcoming year for yourselves and you get what you want, but the reality is not everyone will. Once the decision is over it’s over. Hopefully by then you can see, however it turns out, it is not a life altering decision for anyone. Life will go on just fine. Enjoy the holidays folks.
Mr. Lusardi,
Whoever you are, wherever you’re originally from or now reside, don’t let the no account bums get you down. You are doing what your gut tells you is the right thing. Some folks don’t like others with stamina, original thoughts, a purpose, and a backbone. Remember, there will always be those very few who will try and subvert your good intentions. The vast majority though, are with you in spirit and substance. Your argument is sound, intelligent, and with merit. It’s fine citizens like yourself that truly make our community, albeit dysfunctional in the minds of a miniscule minority, GREAT!
Someone said that there are too many complainers without solutions, so for the third (or fourth) time, here is my plan for redistricting:
Step 1 – Throw away the old attendance map. (The most important step)
Step 2 – Assign each student to the closest school to their home.
Step 3 – Adjust students on the fringes of attendance areas to balance attendance perdentages between all schools.
Step 4 – Adjust borders to account for natural boundaries (neighborhoods, highways, etc.)
Step 5 – Let the public blow off steam and then implement plan, with the only changes being made to correct errors, not for any group’s personal wants or desires.
Would this be fair to you, Mr. Lusardi and the rest? All of the county would be treated the same, and the areas that have evolved into the current mess and become unmaintainable would be realigned.
To Anonymous Phil Dirt – the outlined logic would probably be far easier to justify than what currently appears on the color-coded draft map. You put it very simply – unfortunately there is little logic seen in the “adjustments” that are currently proposed. These adjustments are also viewed by many of us as a band-aid that will require another adjustment very soon while avoiding real solutions. I hope your straightforward plan is viewed by the BOE through this thread to show them that there are other ways make things work.
Sadly the baind-aide solution is all the BOE can do. A real solution is one in which the zoning comittee and county council do not continue to approve development all over the place. These are factors the BOE does not control.