From Ryan Burbey:
Let me start by saying, my name is Ryan Burbey. I currently am employed by Harford County Public Schools. I am compensated on teachers’ step eight Master’s Degree plus thirty credits. This means my annual salary is $57, 026. However, I like all other teachers in Harford County have had my wages frozen, surreptitiously, for two years. As a result, I am not being paid commensurate with my ten years of experience. This information is available at http://www.hcps.org/BOE/docs/CollectiveBargaining/HCEA/HCEA_NegotiatedAgreement.pdf
I don’t really know what I would make in another county because until recently I had not considered changing districts. However, none of these facts were part of my words for the Harford County Board of Education on Monday October 4th. Nor, did I come to complain about my salary as suggested in last Wednesday’s Aegis Editorial. I came to advocate for my colleagues with significantly less years of experience and income. Although not noted in the speciously presented article delineating the long held “institutional position” of The Aegis, I came to advocate that teachers years 1-5 not only were entitled to their step increases but that it was in the best interest of all stakeholders that these salary increases were approved
Harford County risks a loss of many valuable young teachers who simply cannot afford to stay in the county. Harford County Public schools currently pays less on every step up to step five than both Cecil and Baltimore Counties. Correspondingly, housing is dramatically more expensive here than in Cecil County. The median household income is lower in Cecil and Baltimore Counties., yet, teachers in both these counties make more based on step scales. However, to really appreciate the difference in salaries you must remember that Harford County teachers have not had a raise in two years. That means that all our teachers, years one through three, with a standard professional certificate are making $41, 171. This is much lower rate than any neighboring county. In fact, it ranks 20th out of the 24 counties in the state for new teachers. It is in no way comparable to the salary of a third year teacher in any county.
What the Board of Education puts at risk is not only teachers, but also, the future growth of our county and children. Harford County does not just risk losing teachers but citizens., students and taxpayers. Why would any new teacher come to Harford County to start a family; when they cannot hope to ever get a raise in salary and can look forward to yearly cuts in benefits? Why would any young teacher choose to remain in a county where their ideas, futures, families and labors are not valued by their employer?
Ryan Burbey
I have a hard time feeling sorry for teachers who complain about their salaries. First off, you knew the circumstances when you went in to teaching. Secondly, sure, they only make 41,171 a year. What teachers always fail to mention is that is for only 44 weeks of the year plus all the holidays and vacations that teachers have off as well. So the equivalent yearly starting salary for a teacher is an equivalent weekly salary of a person making $48,656 a year. Try a temp job or part time job in the summer months to offset that salary a little. If your like most teachers I know, you spend your summer months at the beach or on the pool side…..all of this seems like a luxury to all of us private sector workers can only dream about having off random holidays, extended holidays and summer vacation.
His point is you will not get the best and brightest if they can do all the things you mention and work in Baltimore County making more money. My wife is paid on step 9 with 11 years and can make 8,000 more by going to Baltimore County next year if HCPS again freezes steps and possibly more since BCPS seems to be raising salaries. She is thinking about it. Soon no one will want to teach here. Not teach but just not teach here.
My daughter is a 5th year teacher and has not had a step increase in two years which means she is at a step 3 level. She bought a townhouse in harford county and works during the summer to supplement her income. She is a young, bright and energic teacher who is strongly considering another profession as her electric, food, gas bills continue to increase, but not her salary. She is not complaining, but works hard to pay her bills, but as a single teacher, it is becoming increasingly hard. That small step increase each year would help when paying her basic bills. It will be the Harford County Schools loss to lose a good, young and energic teacher (and other young teachers) who are worth the money and are struggling to stay ahead of their basic bills.
@Edward – I’d really like to know where all these teachers are that spend all summer by the pool or at the beach. We choose to be teachers because we love working with children and sharing our love of learning with our students. Your so called “random holidays” are government holidays – Martin Luther King Jr. day, Labor Day, Memorial Day, Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years Day, and Presidents Day. Not to mention I’m sure members of the Jewish community would love you calling their religious holidays as “random.” Plenty of teachers, including myself, supplement their incomes, both during the school year and over the summer, by waitressing, working at Kohl’s, Lowes, coaching, editing and writing curriculum and tests for the county, and tutoring. However, many teachers are parents, and working full-time over the summer may not be feasible due to have to find daycare for their children. Many times, people would pay more in daycare costs than they would actually earn working that summer job.
Lastly, please keep in mind that your teacher friends are in no way a representative sample of the overall population of teachers.
Teaching is a great gig no matter how you cut it and many teachers went into teaching primarily for the work/life balance. A guarantee of time off with all major holidays and summers that you cannot match in the private sector.
I have to agree. Teachers are not the only ones who have a pay freeze. I would love to have a teachers schedule, with random days off, along with the holidays.
LOL @ Victoria: If you would love to have a teacher’s schedule, well, just get a teaching job. Isn’t that simple?? NOT.
agreed……….many employers are cutting their workforce & not giving raises because of the horrible economy……..teachers need to appreciate their job security in these horrible times.
You certainly can match or exceed a “teaching lifestyle”. Teachers teach because they care. Unfortunately, our generosity and compassion often allow our employers to take us for granted.
Burbey is a socialist.
As of 2008, the median income for Harford County was $50,000. It will undoubtably be higher as of the 2010 census. Do you really think it is acceptable to pay your child’s teacher more than $9,000 below the median income???
$41,000 is the starting salary for teachers, so surely the median is higher. Starting salary should not = median salary. By your own admission, Ryan, you make well above the median.
As the first line of my editorial says, I make about $57,000. That is $7,000 above the county median household income from the last census. However, I also have thousands in education debts, which I incurred to ensure that I was the best that I could be. When I took on the debts it was with thee assumption that as long as there was money available the Board of Education would fund my steps. This has simply not happened. In fact before you envy my “huge” salary, consider that the US department of Ed considers my current pay vs. expenses to be a financial hardship.
However, I also wanted to note again that I didn’t write or come to the school board to advocated for myself. I want teachers year 1-5 to make a fair salary. I also would like for or support staff to make a living wage. Similarly, I want our board of education to honor its commitments and to provide adequate health insurance to its employees. Yes, these are tough times. Yes, sacrifices need to be made but these sacrifices should not endanger the health and well being of our education staff. These sacrifices should first come in the form of not purchasing new materials which are meant to replace functional old materials. We all deserve and should demand better decision making form our board of education.
Yeah right!
“I want teachers year 1-5 to make a fair salary.”
So you think we taxpayers are so stupid that we don’t realize that if you are successful in raising the entry level range of salary it will push the upper ranges up as well?
All wages for public school employees are negotiated. I don’t see why it would not be possible to negotiate better salaries for new teachers without raising top level wages. It is open for negotiations. The problem is that the Board of Ed. refuses to honestly negotiate.
Oops I got my wires crossed about median income. I actually make $19,000 less than Harford County’s median income of $76,000.
If you are the only wage earner in your household you do make less than the median household income.
The median household income statistic is not a good measure to determine salaries.
I think actually median income is a good determinant for government employees but It is not a one to one correspondence. I mixed up my numbers. Again sorry. I don’t like to mis-quote facts. I am the only wage earner in my home. $$$ is tight but we make it work.
I also believe that all teachers should make at least the median salary of the households in their governing county.
Why?
Teachers are the footsoldiers on the frontline of our democracy. They make it possible for all our future citizens to live happy and productive lives and to responsibly execute their right to vote. They should be respect and compensated in line with the responsibilities, time and education required to properly execute their job. Most teachers have enormous student loan debts at the start of their career. They should not need to work a second job to stay afloat. They should be able to use their summers and other “free” time to continue their education and participate in professional development. They should be able to and encouraged to live in the municipality in which they teach. Median household income is a relatively good indicatior of what it takes to subside in a particualr area.
Again median household income includes all wage earners in a household. Harford County Median household income as of 2008 was $77,085. You cannot compare one teachers salary to median household income.
I apologize. I have been mis-quoting my facts. $54,000 is the average teacher salary in Harford County. You are right that $76,000 is a bit high for new teachers. However, it does illustrate the need to raise teacher wages. I know from personal experience that I could not break even until I made $54,000. I think we should view about $50,000 as a good starting salary for teachers. Once again, I apologize for my mis-statement. Below are links to where I got my facts. You can also note the achievement reports.
http://teacherportal.com/district/maryland/harford-county-public-schools
http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=teacher&l1=Harford+County%2C+MD
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/24/24025.html
http://mdreportcard.org/Assessments.aspx?K=12AAAA&WDATA=Local+School+System
http://mdreportcard.org/Demographics.aspx?K=12AAAA&WDATA=Local+School+System
You think two adults (somebody else’s wife) in a household have an obligation to allow your wife to sit at home by doubling your income? That’s rich…
Ryan,
Not sure where you got your numbers from. Sure median income for a HOUSEHOLD was $77k, but that’s for both people working. The thing to note though is how much do jobs actually IN the county pay. Many people travel to Baltimore or DC for work, but teachers work right here in Harford County and those are the jobs they are competing for. The average salary for a job IN Harford county is $41,841 in 2007. I think you would agree that this number is much more apt rather than a median or mean HOUSEHOLD income number, unless of course you are trying to sway the numbers to make a raise for your position seem necessary.
What I don’t think you seem to understand is that most new teachers can not afford to live here. As far as a raise for me, I would be happy if the board of ed would just live up to their commitments and pay me according to my experience and our previously negotiated steps. Quite frankly, $42,000 is not enough for teachers to continue their education pay their debt and afford to live.
I actually think the pay of experienced teachers is an even bigger problem. There is not a huge gap in the salaries of beginning teachers county to county (although Harford County’s is certainly too low). The higher up the scale you go, the bigger the gap. At my step and education level, the salaries range from low 60,000s to 100,000. Counties bring them in and then the disparity grows through their careers. This affects their standard of living for their whole lives because retirement is based on final salary. I’m not suggesting Harford teachers should be paid the same as Montgomery teachers, but it should be closer to similar counties. Harford is a relatively wealthy county.
You need to count their days off…..figure in days worked…..then see how much they make a month. Other workers get 2 weeks vacation & then maybe 3 if they are lucky.
and other workers line the pockets of millionaires instead of a civic duty of education.
While we’re at it, let’s calculate hours worked, education required, and the real value of the job. I’m not saying teachers need 6 figures, but even wal-mart employees without high school diplomas can break 40k after years of service.
Edward,
Thank you for reminding me of why I like working with children and not adults.
I did not realize when I went into teaching that my salary would not increase for subsequent years; I was actually led to believe by hcps that the step increases were guarenteed each year (please note that the step salary chart is no longer accurate due to salary freezes, but still remains posted). I am a 4th year teacher working on a 2nd year teacher’s salary. Last year I finally made the decision to quit my second job waitressing because I felt that as a degree holding professional I should not have to work a second job; however I also could no longer afford my one bedroom apartment in Forest Hill, so I moved in with another teacher who could not afford her townhouse without having a roommate;) I know teaching is not a very technical career and I do not believe teachers should be paid higher salaries, but I do think we should get the increases that were “guarenteed.” Also, I would love to know where these beach bunnies are! I want to know their secrets! I chew my nails for 9 months hoping and praying I can make it through those two mandatory months of unemployment, which I WORK through. Maybe those beach bunnies can relax because they still live at home with their parents since they cannot afford to move out on their own, hmm…
About that $48,656 a year salary..this is why I’m an advocate for year-round school! Seriously, we are teachers to help students, and that we have two mandatory months off is beyong our control. Trust me, I would rather work those two months teaching. Also, I think (maybe I’m wrong)that many jobs offer a little something called “overtime” or “comp. time”, which is money that is paid for workers’ time beyond the scheduled work day. During those paid school months and holidays many teachers work far beyond their scheduled work day without pay for their students. I think the unpaid hours we work during the school year might be equivalent to those hours we hypothetically might have worked during the summer.
Harford County is BLESSED to have excellent new teachers that choose to focus on their students instead of negative comments made by adults. I hear people complain about their jobs all the time but do not feel the need to berrate them. One more thing I didn’t know I signed on for – fighting for respect in what I thought was a respectable profession.
Edward,
I bet you are one of those who think teachers only work during the day. Well I have news for you, try living with one who brings tests home to grade, works with various parent groups, and goes out her way to see that parents are part of the solution to there child’s education. Find me a welder, shop clerk, or insurance salesman that worries about their customer after business hours or for that matter a County executive who has been feeding at the public watering hole too long!!!!!!
PS: Being a teacher is not what they do, it is who they are!
@edward
I can’t stand it when people try to play the summers off card with teachers. It burns me up!! Yes we do have summers off, only because there are no students in the building (which may I add may be changing anyway!) However, we are working on improving curriculum over the summer and putting in more off hour time then some Drs. getting paid a temp job salary! If you are jealous of the beach time teachers get for the month of July, then you should have picked the teaching profession! I am sure just like every job that yours has its perks as well. Just because we have summers off does not mean we do not deserve to be paid well. We are the futures shot at making a difference!
Wow!!! Edward obviously is not involved at all in HCPS!!! I am not a teacher or employeed at all with HCPS, I am just a volunteer parent. I cant help but try to help our teaches in any way possible due to the fact of the work load and expectations put on our teachers.
Most teachers choose this career, not only for the income but for the love and desire to teach. Yes, they do make more then some professions but they do require a college education {that they paid for} and it is required for them to continue taking credit courses throughout their career to maintain their degree.
Teacher are not only required to teach at the grade levels that they were trained for. Our county is great for trying to mainstream kids with all kind of disabilities into the system. Now the teacher is supposed to handle those kids without effecting anyone else in the class or parents will complain about that too.
As far as their hours of work…most people get overtime. Every teacher I know has to take work home and take that time away from their family/personal life. Making tests, grading test, homework, lesson plans, etc is mostly done at home. The state put such demands on these teachers that there is no time in the curriculum for them during the day.
So, our country is a financial mess!! The BG&E bills go up, food prices go up, price of gas is still high, everything has increased but not our teachers salaries!! Stop and think of what they really do, try dealing with all those kids personalities along with their parents, try dealing with the states requirement plus have a family life but be told that your just not worth that much!!
TO ALL HCPS TEACHER – Great job and I truly appreciate you giving so much of yourselves to benefit our children and future leaders!! You are true Patriots!!!
Please get more active. Speak at the Board of Education meetings. Start a petition. Write your County Council member. We need your help.
THANK YOU!
Pay the best teachers what they deserve. Fire the deadwood. Don’t give raises to sub par Teachers. Cut back on administrators and the excess support staff.
Simple enough – get it done or elect officials who can.
Damn right!
If these guys aren’t happy with the pay scale, they can leave. Harford County is good to teachers, and a great place to live.
That’s the tradeoff. If you want to go do Baltimore, do it.
Let’s move toward a system where teachers get paid more if they are better. For example, if Mr. Burbey is as great as he says, he should totally get more money. However, there should not be pay raises based solely on tenure.
Of course,
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001017392145
He is a fan of O’Malley and Educators for O’malley.
I’m surprised it took until the last paragraph to say “WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!!”
Children are always on teachers’ minds. Unfortunately, our commitment does not seem to be valued in Harford County.
Who he votes for/supports is irrelevant. Teachers deserve whatever support they need. I volunteer several hours a week at our school and often provide supplies (dry erase markers, pencils, etc.) to each of my children’s classrooms. Not so hard. Stop trying to make this a partisan debate. It’s not.
Thank you. The same could be said for the Board of Education elections. My opponent has clearly decided to make party affiliation a primary issue in this election. At this very moment he is in Joppatowne placing fliers filled with more distortions and lies on peoples doors before they wake up.
Where is the integrity? Is this the kind of person you want making decisions about how your children are educated or deciding how our tax money is spent? Have you seen anything from him that says what he wants to do on the Board other than the community needs to be involved? I recognize that the school board has done a poor job in that regard and incorporated that in my platform and campaign slogan – YOUR Voice.
Education is not about politics, at least at the local level. I spent twenty years on the Baltimore Police Department and no one ever asked my political affiliation when they need my help. I do not believe that anyone cares about that in the classroom either. Parents want to know the teacher is qualified and competent. The same should be true for school board members.
Are you disgusted by this kind of politics? We constantly hear that people don’t like this kind of mud slinging in elections. They want campaigns to be run and debated on the issues, and there are a great many significant issues facing our school system that the candidates should be talking about. My positions are clearly stated for everyone to see. Can you find his?
I have said it before. How people act in their personal lives is how they will govern. If you want this kind of leadership on the school board then vote for him. If you expect something better then vote for me.
Bob Frisch
Board of Education candidate
District A (Edgewood, Joppatowne, Joppa communities)
THANK YOU Bob. It is absolutely amazing how things can get turned around and spun up! And “thanks” for showing your enthusiasm and for standing at Rt 40 and Joppa Farm Rd saying THANK YOU for the votes on Primary day…..in the rain.
I may have missed it, but I saw NO OTHER PEOPLE doing that, you were not the ONLY one to win on Primary Day !
Big John,
Thanks. I can see you understand the value of integrity.
It’s a shame that you, Mr. Thompson, lost. I’m sorry. Get over it.
Big John, Big Ass:
Big John is not Mr. Thompson. It is you who are the big ass is this case.
You are what is wrong with America!
It is not that we aren’t comfortable with the pay scale. We just want the Board of Education to live up to their promises, especially when they have operated at over a 7 million dollar surplus.
As an effective teacher I totally agree. I work hard and I deserve to be paid for it! It outrages me to hear about (and see) ineffective teachers that are paid above what I make. Pay me what I deserve and it will keep me from turning into a piece of deadwood!
We could never pay you enough to stop your decline to deadwood status if that is your destiny.
This story is almost 2 years old. Are you kidding me?
Harford county will not hire any great teachers over the age of 50 either. I have talked to at least 40 other people my age who have a wealth of knowledge to share with kids. Many are financially able to work on a teacher salary, but cannot get hired. HCPS hired 50% of their teachers from out of state last year and I couldn’t get hired with a 3.9 GPA in my masters program. Because of being over 50.
Mrs Cougar,
Your not being hired doesn’t have to do with the fact that you are over 50. It more has to do with the fact that you have your masters degree. Despite your wealth of knowledge and abilities, it would cost the county too much money to hire you. Instead, the county would rather hire teachers fresh out of college because it will cost less.
Its not just over 50 that’s not being hired. I graduated in 09 with a BA in History and Secondary Education. I have been trying to get hired in Harford County since then but unfortunately there just aren’t enough open positions. I’m currently pursuing an M.ed in Special Ed. I’m hoping those extra credentials will get me hired- maybe if enough teachers get fed up with the salary freeze then some more positions will open up.
AND to all of the people who think teachers don’t work hard enough for what they make- try working a teachers schedule for one week. We need summers off after working 16 hour days, 5 days a week and preparing for the next week over the weekend. Not to mention the stress of dealing with parents and students who don’t respect you as a professional.
Therein lies the problem. Hire quality experienced teachers that you know have a proven track record and will stay around to provide a quality education for our students, or hire the new unknown quantity that according to statics will be gone in five years and maybe deprive students of a better educational opportunity. In the long run stability makes better financial sense and results in a better education for students.
Hiring and developing young, new teachers is key to the success of any school system; just as hiring new young talent is key to any bssiness.
I am a State employee. I have not only had my salary frozen for the past three years, I also have had to take mandatory furlough days. My salary has been reduced. Per the article, a teacher starts at about $42000 per year for 44 weeks of work. Think of it as making $42000 per year with 8 weeks of paid vacation (plus Holidays, etc.). Schools are in session for 6 1/2 hours per day during which all teachers take a 1/2 hour lunch break. I know teachers are at school both before and after the bell rings and that is the time they should be preparing and grading test, etc. Most people work a standard 8 1/2 hour day including lunch break. Teachers seem to be complaining about what other people in the workplace routinely do. We are in a period of terrible economic times. Teacher should stop complaining. We all are having a tough time. Stop focusing on the negative aspects of the profession and look at the positves. Tell your problems to your therapist or bartender, they are paid to listen to this type of pettiness.
MS starts at 7:45 and dismisses at 2:45. My quick math says that is 7 hours plus teachers must work an extra half hour on top of that.
If I am not mistaken your work day probably ends when you leave work. You aren’t required to work outside your duty day or to pay to continue your education. Comparisons between teachers and other public sector employees or other private sector employees aren’t really very legitimate. I don’t think anyone should be furloughed. Let me ask, did the state dramatically cut your health insurance benefits and increase your premiums? Are you being paid significantly less than others in surrounding counties who do a similar job?
I am not the teacher my wife is. She is required to be there for an extra 1/2 hour after the kids leave. She chooses to arrive 1 hour and 45 mins early and leave 1 hour after she is permitted to. Thus she works in the building 2 hours and 45 minutes that she is not required to. she does this and will bring work home from time to time as well.
I am a State Employee(of 15 years) who has not had a raise, COLA, or increment for 3 years. I am required to take 5 service reduction days, and 4 furlough days. Last year, I made approximately $45,000 (yes I have a college education). Health premiums for State Employees have increased every year since I started. Professionals doing my same job in the surrounding States make at least $10,000 more a year. Public Servants usually do not work for the money, but because they love their jobs. I love my job, and do not complain about the money. I am upset with the lack of appreciation for doing my job with less pay. Government today, whether it be county or state, take for granted that teacher, police, and other public servants like what they do and care about the people they serve. I can’t speak for teachers or other government workers, but I would like to be appreciated for the work that I do on less salary. Teachers as well as other professions deserve a better salary, and the only way to make change is electing better government. Unfortunately, we have been continuously let down by government with false promises.
Oh. Most people these days do not have jobs that end when they leave the office. I could be required to work evenings or weekends, without overtime. We “flex” our time to a 40 hour week. If I’m not at work (whether it be furlough, sick, or even vacation), no one does my job. It just waits there for my return, like most professional jobs I know.
My wife is a high school teacher and she typically is in the building by 6:30-6:45 am and frequently doesn’t get home until after 6 pm (unless she has parent conferences, back to school night, etc in which case she gets home more like 8-9 pm or even later…and she doesn’t get paid extra for those events.) Add in all the extra time she puts in at home grading papers, planning assignments, and making tests and she probably puts in close to 80 hrs/week some weeks.
6.5 hr day my ass.
What many people don’t understand is that teachers are not paid for holidays, nor do they receive vacation pay. We are paid for 190 days per year, 180 of which involve direct contact with the students in the classroom. The other 10 days are spent doing “Professional Development” as designated by HCPS. Most people in the private sector get both holiday and vacation pay. I welcome anyone who thinks teaching is an easy job to try it for a year. It’s not as easy as you think. Teachers do it because they love children and believe that children are the future of our nation.
I am so-o-o tired of people who insist on talking about teachers not working the summers and calling it a paid vacation. What you are forgetting is that I DON’T GET PAID OVER THE SUMMER! THERE’S NO PAYCHECK AFTER JUNE 15TH AND I DON’T SEE ANOTHER ONE UNTIL THE FALL! I would love to get a paid summer vacation. It doesn’t happen. If I don’t budget through the year to get through the summer I’m in big trouble. Summers off is not anything a teacher has control over and we have to just to do the best we can financially until school starts back up. That’s why you see teachers waitressing/mowing lawns/bartending, whatever they can find to fill the gap.
On the whole, teachers work damn hard and put in a heck of a lot more time than the time they spend in school. Not to mention those who spend a good chunk of their own money to help furnish their classrooms.
That having been said, those of us in the private sector work hard too, and have seen our salaries frozen or cut over the past several years, so I’m not sure where the injustice is in having public sector employees readjust their lifestyles the way the rest of us have been forced to.
And the “we risk losing teachers if we don’t pay them more” argument is grossly overstated. As long as the supply of potential teachers in the region exceeds the number of job openings, we don’t have to worry about a mass exodus to other counties. Not across the board, that is; the situation may be different with math/science/special ed teachers, and if we need to pay those teachers more to retain them, then we need to pay them more. I don’t mind paying more in taxes to retain teachers for those subjects that are in demand. But I do mind paying more just for the sake of giving all teachers raises. Again, considering that I’m making less than I did three years ago…
I agree bith sides work hard but the injustice in pay comes up because when times where good and private sector jobs got huge salary increases. Public sector employees, teachers especially gt reminded that they should take less of an increase because they get steps and stuff. Now that the bad times came do not be suprised that the teachers can not understand the frozen steps.
As far as demand……The supply of certified Science, Math and Special Educators is far below the demand. If you want great teachers you will need to pay for them. When given a choice of teaching across the border in Cecil or Baltimore COunty for 8K more and better benefits. Sooner or later they will leave or at least the good ones.
The supply of teachers available does not exceed the demand, especially in special ed, science and math. MD as a state “imports” thousands of new teachers every year. We aren’t asking for raises. We are asking to be paid what was agreed and not to be used to fill budget shortfalls created by purchases and programs which we had no part in selecting.
I worked for HCPS as a teacher for 6 years. I left this past year to work for Cecil County. The difference in how employees are treated is night and day. Cecil County is a much more transparent organization who demonstrates that they really care for their employees through their ACTIONS. I have been telling all of my teacher friends that it is time to take a look at Cecil County… better working conditions, cheaper homes, and an employer who gets it.
Would you please come to the Harford County Board of Education and tell your story.
we want to move over the line to Pa. or Del. to get a cheaper home, less taxes , and won’t have our pensions taxed…..Md. does tax pensions, and tax, tax, tax……thanks to the Dems who vote the spenders in. I agree that there should be merit pay for the best teachers……and the union should allow the worst teachers to be fired……like other companies do. This would be a great incentive to get the best teachers good bonuses that they do deserve for excellence…and not have all of the teachers in the same category.
PA has a school tax which is separate from their property tax and as far as I know untaxed pensions will get taxed once you receive a distribution no matter where you live for at least federal taxes and probably state taxes even in DE.
Most teachers work hard and should be paid better. UNFORTUNATELY we are in an economic recession. If the teachers get increases, the garbage men won’t. If they both get increases, the streets won’t get fixed. If we have teachers that don’t understand managing through temporary hardship and the economic cycles of capitalism, how can they teach those important social skills?
Nice idea but then when times get better you think they should get raises? That doesn’t happen.
I do. When times are good they get COLA’s, improved benefits, higher 401k contributions, etc – whatever their Union’s bargain to get. Many jurisdictions around the country have begun to lay off teachers due to the poor economy and the burgeoning culture war against public teacher’s unions. I understand that the squeaky wheel gets the grease, but a two-year pay freeze is not the worst that can happen when you stop to compare.
Actually, the Harford County Board of Education realized a 7.8 million dollar surplus on the backs of its teachers last year. What’s more they cut our benefits which has resulted in defacto pay cuts. While many municipalities are having a tough time making $$$, this is not true in Harford County. It’s not just the pay freeze. It is their complete refusal to negotiate anything. Get involved. You will see.
No 401k match at all. in good times the teachers got 3% Colas while SS got 5%. Private sector got much more.
I don’t give a rats ass about you malcontent teachers, I suggest you quit and find a higher paying job with better health benefits, vacation and time-off.
And please write back and tell us how you made out.
BR
I do. When times are good they get COLA’s, improved benefits, higher 401k contributions, etc – whatever their Union’s bargain to get. Many jurisdictions around the country have begun to lay off teachers due to the poor economy and the burgeoning culture war against public teacher’s unions. I understand that the squeaky wheel gets the grease, but a two-year pay freeze is not the worst that can happen when you stop to compare.
Harford County is already understaffed and we started getting our pay cut before the recession. As to the war on public school teachers, it is misplaced. Are we blaming doctors for the mess in helalthcare? Most teachers, particularly in Harford County, have very little say in what goes on in their school.
Teachers do not get a 401K match in any form additionally while private sector employees got Larger colas in the good times. Teachers got told to sit tight.
Then don’t comment.
If you care so little, I would suggest that you go play golf not blog. Check out this link for masters degree salaries in various cities.
http://www.happyschoolsblog.com/average-masters-degree-salary/
AAAWWWW!!! Poor Bulle Rocker…..is you HOA fee getting to be too much for you? I’m sorry you bought a house that is now worth half of what you paid for it. But please don’t blame your financial situation on everyone else. You seem so bitter whenever you post something.
OMG,
No need to pity me, I don’t live in Bulle Rock and if I did what difference would it make?
I am a bit tired of the whining malcontented teachers who post that they have it so bad, when their total compensation and schedule are better than the majority of folks in Harford County.
For those teachers that think they can do better in another line of work they should quit complaining and move on to greener pastures. Oh and don’t forget to write back and share your success story with us.
BR
No it isn’t. They make 8K below the median income of the county.
Cdev,
So what? Is there some rule that says teachers salaries have to regulated against median county income?
BR
There is no rule about anyone’s income. However, don’t you think that it is only fair that people who do a difficult job which requires empathy and personal commitment are rewarded? Isn’t it reasonable that educated professionals receive professional pay? Don’t you think that in a profession where you are required to attain a masters degree you should be able to afford to pay the cost of continuing your education? Follow the link below and you will see the average debt for undergrad and grad degrees. Teachers are one of the few professions that must constantly continue their education, incurring a never ending stream of debts to continue to practice their profession.
http://www.finaid.org/loans/
What about pensions for teachers?
Well when you consider pensions for teachers it is a complicated issue. Some veteran teachers belong to the “old” pension system. However, most teachers belong to the newer version and I can assure you that it is not a lucrative windfall. Also, the teachers’ pension is constantly at the mercy of the state legislature and other politicians, who threaten to throw the cost back to counties; which will ultimately result in cuts to benefits or salary or both.
Well the vast majority of private sector workers don’t have a pension and they have to pay a more for their part of health insurance.
When you take into account salary+health+pension+schedule+timeoff=friggin fantastic compensation that is all but impossible to find in the private sector.
Just remember…You get what you pay for!!!! If you want quality, you pay for quality! If you want crap, you pay for crap!!
I think Harford County”s children are worth quality not crap!!
volunteermom,
While I applaud you willingness to jump on the bandwagon of spending more…to get more quality. I’m affraid you’ve fallen into a false logic that has plagued many an administration. Since Clinton, the US Board of Ed has dumped 60Mil..80mil (Bush)…and est 100mil (President Obama) into education while graduation rates are increasingly declining. Higher pay does not equate to better quality. I’m afraid there are some dynamics you are missing which include unions, tenure, and younger teachers who are passed over for tenured teachers who perform at lower levels. Again thank you for volunteering, as I do myself, but higher pay is no silver bullet when the status quot continues to administer policy. Maybe there would be more money to hand out to teachers if we weren’t wasting time retaining substandard teachers on the payrolls.
A big dynamic in student performance that goes overlooked is parental involvement. I don’t care where you come from, or your background, if a parent is engaged and involved with a child education (action not talk) you will find that this is probably half the battle. Its easy to blame teachers as most do, but the true dynamic is the home which folks don’t want to talk about because it ruffles feathers. Much like the foreclosure crisis in America. A majority of foreclosures recipients were not ‘victims’ they were merely players in the market dealing with the consequences of signing off on something that was too good to be true. There were scams..but to be real the numbers of consumer spending on homes show they were way outnumbered by pure greed.
Bullerocker you said
” their total compensation and schedule are better than the majority of folks in Harford County.”
When they make less then the median income that is clearly not true!
Crystal the vast majority of private sector folks get a 401k match. Teachers do not the money in their 403b is all put in by them.
Many employers cut or eliminated their 401K match since 2007, some employers never match and not all employers have a 401K to begin with.
Cdev
Median household income as of 2008 was $77,085 and of course includes households with one or more wage earners. So you cannot compare median household income with single teacher median, mean or average salary.
BR
P.S. I would be willing to bet average household income where a teacher is included in the household would exceed $100,000.
he is good old Joe Caruso,
he owns a house right at the Bulle Rock gate that probably cost him 500-600,000 when he bought it, and now he couldn’t sell for more than 300,000. Maybe 350 if he is lucky.
Since its outside the gate, I do not know if he has to pay the outrageous HOA fee that my parents do inside the gates.
But yes, he is bitter and angry. Bullerocker is such a charming name though, isn’t it?
@HarCoResident I don’t know if Bullerocker is carusso or not but Bullerocker is right about teacher salaries. You sound bitter yourself, what is up with that?
Harco,
My house is worth $250,000 less than what I paid for it are you bitter and angry with me? Why are you jealous of others?
Jacob B.
I am not bitter, just tired of people with little brains thinking they know how to make Harford County a top-tier county, and then maintain that ranking, by using mediocrity and small thinking and ideas to get there.
Ideology has no place in a world of logic, reason, and competition.
Ideology boxes you in to a small set of choices and a limited vision of the future.
People need to open their minds to more than a conservative, Bush-like NeoConservative ideology for Harford County to thrive. But even the greatest minds around here tend to let that ideology keep them from greater ideas.
@HarCoResident i am curious and open to hear what are your greater ideas?
Harcoresident,
How about a Barrack-Obama-Pelosi-Like Neo-Progressive-Redistributive way of thinking?
It’s elitists that seem to demand ideological obedience and demand conservatives to abandon their ideals in favor of liberal and progressive enlightenment.
steve
I do not like the idea of bottom up socialism, or “redistribution” as you call it.
But I do favor results-oriented government action, such as using tax INCENTIVES to achieve what is needed for the state, county, etc.
I disregard typical “progressive” thoughts on regulation and taxation, for a “lead with the carrot” approach as opposed to a “lead with a stick or belt” approach.
And I disapprove of welfare and subsidized housing and move to opportunity programs.
Still want to call me a neo-progressive obama-pelosi clown? Thats fine by me.
But for every 10 of your brains out there, there is one like mine to do thinking and come up with more than anger and bullishness.
And it is your people who threw Mr. Gilchrest into the fire for your savior Mr. Harris?
And you say elitist liberals demand ideological obedience?
I say you are wrong, sir. Or else the independent, commen-sense minded Gilchrest would still be representing our fair district.
You all continue to make the bed you will lay in. And I continue to shake my head.
HarCoResident
Where did I call you any kind of ideologue.
steve
“It’s elitists that seem to demand ideological obedience”….I didnt say you called me an ideologue….I was pointing out that you are the ideologue for assuming I want “obama-pelosi neoprogressivism”….and a hypocrite.
cheers!
HarCoResident
You don’t read very carefully. I asked a question “How about a Barrack-Obama-Pelosi-Like Neo-Progressive-Redistributive way of thinking?” and made a general statement “It’s elitists that seem to demand ideological obedience and demand conservatives to abandon their ideals in favor of liberal and progressive enlightenment.” neither of which assumed anything of you by me.
steve
Speaking of pensions: Teachers in MD retire on roughly a third of their working compensation.Compare that to what teacher pensions look like in PA? Yup.The brightest and the best are/will be looking elsewhere.
People who don’t look ahead are likely to be looking at some unwinnable catch up ball in a few years. But hey- go ahead and kiss the young guns goodbye. Economic development in any jurisdiction is critically linked to the schools. Harford County will reap what it is sowing.
Add to that: when the HCPS BOE altered their health care plan, retirees were disproportionately penalized. They have taken a real hit and MANY are living on $20,000 a year. That’s a real nice Thank You for people who dedicated their lives to teaching our children.
Some retired teachers may be receiving $20K a year plus Social Security of $15-20K annually.
Actually those receiving public pensions are assessed a penalty of one dollar lost from Social Security benefits for each dollar earned through their public sector pensions. This penalty assessed even though they have paid enough quarters into social security to earn full benefits.
Unfortunately the words can’t be clearer. The Board of Ed needs to be done away with at the Federal Level, and education should be directed at the state level. School Choice has been beaten down by Teachers Unions in both Maryland and DC, whose in recent years have served to be a organization preventing teachers from being fired rather than enforcing standards. If theres one thing I’m proud of in the tea party movement is the conversation that has begun in the media about seriously doing away with the Board of Ed at the federal level and giving states back the rights to handle education. Say what you will about former President Bush, but he gained my respect when his then Secretary of Education Rod Paige took on the teachers unions and pushed school choice. Teachers Unions will always sharpen their beaks when you bring out school choice, pay for performance, and charters. Oh yeah and he was also one of the few Presidents to take on privatizing social security head-on. Not saying I got his throwback jersey, but I give credit where credit is due.
It pays to keep under-performing schools going, regardless of the output. If the board of education operated like the private sector teachers unions would be up to their eyeballs in pink slips.
btw…Waiting for Superman is playing at the White March AMC. And encourage everyone to to go see Freakanomics which is being released in theatres (based on bestselling book). Time to wake up folks and realize how much power you’ve lost as citizens.
There is no federal board of education. There is the US Dept of Education which adminsters programs (mostly unfunded mandates) at the federal level. Reagan did try to dismantle it, unsuccessfully. BTW as you praise Rod Paige and Bush you do realize NCLB which they championed with Ted Kennedy was a large unfunded mandate to leverage FARMS money with.
Cdev,
Oh I’m sorry what ever was I thinking. The US Board of Education is not Federal…”There is the US Dept of Education which administers programs (mostly unfunded mandates) at the federal level”. Sounds like you’ve been drinking some kool-aid yourself at just who runs what my friend. You can change all the wording you want, it pushed Federal regulations rather than state. I also have some prime swamp land for you down in Florida…did I say swamp land…I mean land that is somewhat marshy with a water based foundation. Your great!
Superman is a propaganda piece. The reality is that twice as many charter school perform below common standards when compared to public schools and are dechartered as a result. Half of all charter school perform the same as their public school counterparts. In other words only 17 percent of charters do better and that is a direct result of parent involvement, which charter school students had before they left their public school. Charters are not the panacea that too many think it is.
And why did you have to turn nasty? You could have made your points without doing so.
There have been no conclusive studies on the effectiveness of charter schools, while there are many studies over decades on the failure of our public schools.
I’ll put my faith on charter schools in competing for better education results against public schools. Who knows maybe the public schools will work harder to educate our children if parents have choices on where to send their kids?
Crystal
In fact there have been independent studies on charter school success/failure rates. The study I site was discussed at the latest meeting of the Md. Assoc. of Boards of Education. This group has a particular interest in the success rate of charters as local school boards are the granting authority of charters within their respective jurisdictions. The study encompassed nationwide results. Other studies are coming to similar conclusions.
And they have all been qualified as inconclusive since the data sampling is limiting whereas public school data sampling spans decades and is enormous by comparison.
Public schools achievement since 1970 has declined.
Crystal
No sense trying to have a dialogue with you as you are set in your opinion. There exists sufficient data and enough history on charter/public school comparisons to reach statistically accurate conclusions even if they do not agree with your viewpoint.
Why don’t you trot out those conclusive studies and we’ll find if they are conclusively proven or just opinions?
I’m not doing your homework for you.
That’s because you’re so full of opinion your eyes are brown.
Why must you resort to name calling?
Are you insane? I haven’t called you any names.
I agree with Steve. Saying his eyes are brown was obviously meant as an insult.
It was a clever way to say he is full of it, but there was no name calling.
Your splitting hairs, same difference.
Not splitting hairs.
Steve and you are just upset that you cannot defend the abysmal performance of our public schools and you cannot prove charter schools have failed.
You’re scared that public schools cannot compete with charter schools.
I wasn’t agreeing about charter schools, I’m not talking about charter schools. My only comments were about a lack of civility in your responses. Can’t anybody on this forum have an honest debate about an issue without taking it so personal?
Well I have been civil and all I can surmise is that you and Steve are thin skinned.
I don’t agree with Steve and I do think he his full of it. How’s that for being civil and very very clear?
It is always sad when what could be an important and useful discussion descends into the abyss of uncivility.
The charter school/public school debate falsely lumps all public schools and charter schools into opposing catagories. The fact of the matter is that there are many wonderful schools and many horrible schools in both groups. If our purposes are, as a community and a nation, to provide excellence in education, it is worth our while to look at successes on both sides of the fence and see what works and what does not. Cooperation and collaboration- not competition- should be the name of this crucial endeavor.
I would postulate that excellent teachers have a great deal to do with top notch education – public or charter. Small class sizes and student teacher ratios that allow individualization are also componants of excellent schools. Parental involvement is a huge factor in school success. Teacher empowerment and innovation is another key to educational excellence.
What we need to do is work together to find ways to support what works in all of our schools. We need to value education and make it work for all of our kids. And, let’s face it, that may look different in different communities according to the needs of the student population. So I believe there is a place for both Public and Public Charter schools.
Results from the Maryland Assoc of Board of Ed…yeah no thanks. Thats like asking for results on smoking in the US from Philip Morris themselves. Keep doing that fine research. Bottom line is there aren’t that many charter schools in Maryland period to really provide substantial data, and the results of failing public schools have been constant over years. Please tell me what business model allows education institutions to continually decline year after year without making change or in the end shutting down. It helps when you continually get more money thrown at you despite continual decline. Get real!
While I whole heartedly agree with “curious one” , You must also remember that the comparison data for public schools and charter schools is not particularly valid since virtually all charters are permitted to cherry pick their students. If we just made all of our schools high quality, the issue of public, private, charter, etc would be moot. However, that takes an investment, not just in tech and other concrete resources but in manpower. You can not just keep piling more and more responsibilities onto your employees. Horace Mann commented on the problem with privatizing our schools. In a nut shell he said that it would only result in division. In order to be afforded equal opportunity, every child must be afforded equal access to education.
Crystal, as to declining achievement since the 70’s, that is not really possible to measure. We are asking dramatically more from both our teachers and students. I was largely a product of 1970’s-1980’s schools. I was in the”upper level” classes. I did not take algebra until 9th grade. Students now begin taking Algebra in 7th grade. I didn’t begin to examine cell parts and functions in a detailed manner again until 9th grade. Students now begin examining theme in 7th grade. Every year, I have parents comment on how they don’t think kids should be held to such a high standard at such an early age. Every year, I tell them that I have not made the standard, I just am following it. So, if we were to compare achievement we would need to compare similar expectations. As a nation, we are going to need to improve our schools. Teachers are taking the brunt of the backlash right now. We are easy target and typically we don’t or can’t fight back. Bashing teachers or even the system won’t work. We must all commit ourselves to investing in and improving public education. It may mean we need to sped more $$$ but it will also mean we need to spend more time and make school the #1 priority in our homes.
We’ve already followed your “spend more $$$” strategy, it hasn’t worked and taxpayers are stuck with expensive under-performing schools.
Dearest Crystal,
Some municipalities have fully funded theri schools and developed their staff for the 21st century. Unfortunately, Harford County has not. Harford County officials regularly boast how they get the most bang for their buck, meaning they underfund schools. Historically, Harford County has among the lowest per pupil funding in the state. I would love it if the schools were as overfunded as many people believe. It just isn’t the truth. Is there waste? Certainly, I have spoke to specific issues before the board of Ed and County Council but that doesn’t mean that we are overfunded. Get involved do some research. School budgets are public documents. See how much is being spent on ridiculous pet progects and oil for squeaky wheels; rather than on teachers salaries.
Who is to blame for poor school performance or for the schools who are under performing? Certainly not the teachers. They will be the ones who get blamed. The person or persons to blame for under performing schools lies on the shoulders of the parents. When will this society get the fact that if the parents don’t care then neither will their children. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. Then you want teacher salery to be based on student success. ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!!! Not only is that unfair to teachers but it is down right insulting. Just the other day I was volunteering and the students were taking a reading test. The test had to be stopped becasue one child in the class who has no business being in a public school setting decided to go off in the middle of the class and the students had to be evacuated out of the classroom during the test. Talk about missed instruction. Come to find out the parents of the student refuse to put him in the proper school setting he needs to be. Guess who will be blamed when he scores below profienct on the MSA…THE TEACHER!!!! That is who… Teachers deal with this kind of stuff every day. Maybe we should start evaluating parents. Not only are teachers tax payers as well they teach the children whose parents are home on welfare and are paying the welfare for the parents just like you and I are. Sorry for the rant but it truely disgusts me when people who are not involved in education make comments about teachers.
Here is another fact check…the Board of Education does not care about the teachers. They do not care about how they feel or what they think. If teachers had a say then I guarantee you that you would see improvement in under-performing schools.
The problem with performance based pay is determining how exactly you measure “performance.” Do you just do it based on test scores? That unfairly hurts teachers in lower income/higher crime areas with little parental involvement. Do you base it on improvement in test scores? That unfairly hurts teachers who teach mostly AP/Honors kids and/or are in more affluent school because usually those students are already scoring very high on standardized tests and there’s very little room for improvement.
The past few years, I am so amazed at how many people really have no clue or commom sense!!! Shocked first about the choice for president but now hearing people fighting over stuff that are just simple facts!!Why shouldn’t teacher be able to complain about their income? Parents complain about everything! Dont tell my kid what to wear, dont tell my kid how to act, dont embarrass my child, dont touch my child, etc!! The state complains too!! Why arent the test scores higher, why aren;t we number one in the country?,Why cant you fit more state tests into the jammed curriculum already?, etc. And then there is our government…Why aren’t our scores higher then every other counrty?? And all of this falls in the hands of our teacher!!!!
Instead of bashing our teachers, why not ask the county “why” first. My property taxes have gone up dramatically over the past 10 years and I know everybody elses has too. Why?? They claim that a lot goes toward our kids education, obviously not to the right areas though. So we have a bunch of schools that have been built or redone where we overpay contractor that are in the pockets of the county. These new schools get the top of the line technology and my personal favorite – turf fields(scarcasm)!!! What happen to good old fashion dirt and grass!! I had textbook, notebooks, a dictionary and a pen. I didnt need high tech computers and boards to learn. Also, evey year, it cost me a fortune, just to buy supplies for my children and the county cant even supply tissues!!
The county has given billions to Parks and Rec to build turf fields. HC has just reciently purchased more land for Parks and Rec when they already cut the maintenence on the existing properties!
Does nobody get it??? The good ole boys take care of their own!!!Its not about the kids!!We live in a very selfish world all about “the show” and “I WANT”!!! The hard worker are no longer appreciated!!
The extra large school supply list are directly related to the lack of funding the county provides for teachers in supplies. In essence your subsidizing, on top of your taxes, the make-up for the county. Believe it or not, you’d also be surprised at how much comes out of the teachers pockets that doesn’t get reimbursed. That list gets bigger every year…not saying it right, but heres your sign!
Now for some 1+1=3 for ya (county wise). The new schools built in Edgewood are significantly larger than their predecessors. While beautifully designed and loaded with technology, they have to be maintained by a Janitorial staff. If they aren’t maintained properly, all those expensive contracting items (tile, surfaces, etc) suffer wear and tear quicker over time. You would think they would increase more janitors to keep the larger spaces up….NOPE…they are keeping the same staff numbers for the size of building they had (1 story vs now 2 story). That means more stress on the few hardworking janitorial staff they have, and potential issues in the future. They are fighting hard to get 1 or 2 additional personnel to cover the increased square footage to no avail. Thats what happens when you walk into a grocery store hungry…in the you’ve got a cabinets full of extra groceries you don’t need and no money left to pay the light bill.
very true. Beside the cheaper material they build the new schools out of. Let us take Bel Air HS. The old school had very durable terrazo floors. the new school has less durable tiles. The reason Bel Air HS lasted 60 years is because it was a well built building. the new one will not last that long. A similar school to the old Bel Air design is Oxon Hill HS in PG county. It has had 3 additions to accomadate the exploding population there. The additions have more wear on them than the original 1955 building.
From the looks of this post, perhaps you should have spent more time in school. And the county has not spent ‘billions’ on parks and recreation programs. Give me a break. P&R, among other things, are the first ones to suffer. Plenty of schools use booster clubs and PTA’s to raise money for the ‘extras’ at the school. Wake up and realize we are in the 21st century. If we want to attempt to be competitive in the broader global market, kids need resources. A dictionary and #2 pencil simply won’t cut it any longer.
And FYI – roughly half the county budget is for education.
True, kids need resources, but nothing has more classroom value than a good classroom teacher. Except of course a good parent, which unfortunately too many children lack.
It also helps when the contractors measure a track correctly and know 400 meters and 400 yards are not the same!
Amen to that, Cdev! I still get a case of the giggles every time that fiasco comes back up. Question … did we have to pay for that or did the winning bidder go belly-up and stick us with the bill?
here’s some ideas to work on the problems.
1. Go to a split level of increase for saleries. 1-2% each year ( or none if no Social Security increase) and the rest of the bump be based on evals like Baltimore City proposed.
2. go with a longer school year like Indy is looking at with some longer breaks which will help out getting students back on track. Increase base saleries to allow for more instruction time.
3.Look at 2 shift schools, no need to spend$$ in infrastructure ,we already paid for it. Pay more for second shift like the private sector. Even if you don’t do it at every school you could cut overcrowding and make smaller classes.
Again, the problem with a plan like that is that the Harford County Board of Education refuses to honestly negotiate.
The step-system of pay, while not perfect, is the best fit for education. It encourages collaboration between teachers and prevents principals from playing favorites or putting what makes parents happy ahead of what’s best for the student. From a teacher’s standpoint, it might seem a little unfair at times. I know that I would work far more hours than some of my colleagues, but we all understood the trade-off that was being made. None of us would get rich. We sacrificed the potential to make six figures (which is what drives people in the business world– They don’t all make millions, but they have the potential to rise up to the upper management level and do so). In exchange for that sacrifice, we gained stability in pay, benefits and job security. This, incidentally, is why teachers have been so upset about the frozen steps, COLA and the benefits cut. Other people have been quick to point out that everyone in the private sector has had to deal with these issues, but everyone in the private sector has the potential to make the big money.
The waste is at the administrative level. I taught at a school in HCPS that was very similar to the one I attended as a students. Relatively small. Not a huge amount of discipline problems. The school I attended had a Principal and one assistant principal, with one secretary between them. The school I taught at had a Principal, and Educational Facilitator (on the same salary-level as a principal), three assistant principals, a mentor teacher (who could never figure out what he was supposed to be doing), and 5 secretaries. Working under the assumption that a principal makes $100k per year, an assistant principal makes $65k per year, and a secretary makes $35k per year, it breaks down as such: The school that I went to (and I graduated in the 90’s, so it wasn’t all that long ago) spent $200k on administration. The school that I taught at–same size, same kind of community, same issues– spent $635k on administration. That’s a difference of $435k dollars. At one school. You could hire 8 to 10 more teachers to staff that school solely out of the difference.
There is plenty of fat to be cut at the county level as well. What exactly do the county curriculum directors do that couldn’t be done by a regular meeting of the department chairs? What are the umpteen different assistant superintendents of such and such doing that couldn’t be consolidated? Have any of you been in the county building? They have multiple conference/meeting rooms, all stocked with chairs that cost hundreds of dollars each, yet are rarely used.
The county has thrown a lot of money at “education,” and I would agree with Crystal that is hasn’t worked. Where I disagree is in WHY is hasn’t worked. The money was thrown in the direction of education, but not very much of it was left by the time it got through to the teachers and the students. People have been quick to point out the percentage of the budget that is spent on salaries. I would love to see a breakdown that shows how much of that is teacher salary, and how much is administrative/upper-management salary.
look i know that teachers dont make a whole lot of money; however stop moaning you work 10 months out of the year, you get benefits, your off weekends, your off holidays, you work inside, try construction, or the police force, or even the military, see how much you get paid there, or maybe you would like to work in manufacturing and be on your feet for 12 hours plus everyday with mandatory overtime, i mean come on with that time off work a second job. open a business stop bitching, i work 6 to 7 days a week, 12 months a year, i take a vacation and i work a second job 12 months out of the year you do what you gotta do i dont bitch i just do it.
You compared teaching to mostly service sector jobs rather than professions, and you had a number of inaccuracies in that comparison. I don’t know too many teachers who DON’T have “mandatory overtime” (ie- taking hours of work home). We just don’t get paid for it. Either way, you’ve misunderstood the whole point being argued–nobody was complaining about the pay. The complaints have been due to the fact that the CONTRACTUALLY negotiated details of that contract have not been upheld. Step raises and COLA increases have been frozen, and the health insurance has been altered. How would you like to work your 6 or 7 days a week, only to have your boss tell you at the end of the day, “Hey, I know we agreed that I would pay you $100, but times are tough, so you’re going to have to work even harder and I’m only going to pay you $70.” I assume that you’d be pissed off.
Either way–Check my user name. The pay rate in Harford County doesn’t impact me anymore. I’m one of those “young teachers” who left for greener pastures. I teach in New York state now, getting paid about $4k more per year in a town with much lower living expenses (I rent a house for literally HALF of what I paid for a 1 bedroom apartment in Harford County). I left for two reasons- The fact that I could get paid a whole lot more elsewhere for doing the same work, and the fact that I was getting disgusted by Harford County’s quest to lower expectations for the students.
I can’t stand it when people try to play the summers off card with teachers. It burns me up!! Yes we do have summers off, only because there are no students in the building (which may I add may be changing anyway!) However, we are working on improving curriculum over the summer and putting in more off hour time then some Drs. getting paid a temp job salary! If you are jealous of the beach time teachers get for the month of July, then you should have picked the teaching profession! I am sure just like every job that yours has its perks as well. Just because we have summers off does not mean we do not deserve to be paid well. We are the futures shot at making a difference!
Teachers that are unhappy with the way things are going may want to reconsider their career choice. There’s real pain in the private sector and that is going to make it’s way into our public institutions. If they really want to help their lot, they need to start supporting canndidates who will focus on improving our economy and it may well mean going against the wishes of their unions.
There needs to be a siesmic change in the way we educate our young. We’ve dumped money into education and have lower test scores and a higher drop out rate to show for it. The Department of Education is thirty years old now and it’s time to start thinking about dismantling it and giving the money from it to the states who are doing the same job already. School vouchers have proven their worth, but are lobbied against so hard by the unions that they stand no chance. Did you know the Steny Hoyer and Dick Durbin killed the D.C. school voucher program? There were inner city kids attending Sidwell-Friends School and doing fantastic, but the democratic party caved into pressure from the unions and killed the program.
Home schooling, vouchers, co-ops, community schools etc. can’t do any worse than the public sector.
You really need to do your HW on vouchers. They sap badly needed money from public schools and allow private schools to cherry pick the best students. Why not just make our public schools better? Why not hire more teachers to reduce class size and workload? Why not create viable pre-K and full day K programs?
It’s not the teachers’ fault, that some schools are better than others. It is the parents who don’t support their child’s education , by not requiring them to do homework, etc. You could have average teachers at a good school with great results, and great teachers at poor performing schools with horrible results….don’t blame the teachers….it’s the kids & their parents that are the problems.
@Burbey writes “You really need to do your HW on vouchers”
You don’t want freedom of choice for parents and students, but most of all you hate vouchers and charter schools because HCEA/HCPS can’t handle the competition.
USEFUL Databases for comparison. Particularly good for Fed analysis.
Search the fed database by location and agency without using a name and you’ll get a list of all employees working there. Check their position and compare to the private sector or yourself.
Any occupation you look at will shock you. 25-50% more and big bonuses on top of it.
http://
php.app.com/fed_employees10/search.php
The state workers look like paupers next to the Fed workers.
http://
data.baltimoresun.com/salaries_state/
Teachers don’t get paid much relative to the overpayment of most government workers.
You should be outraged but not so much at teachers.
Direct your voice towards where the real money and easy jobs are.
Fed Government Work = High Pay, Low Responsibility, No Consequences
This holds true more for fed administrators than your local teachers.
Teaching is great , but so are other professions that support families. Look around at your neighbors losing their jobs, their hard earned pensions, and cannot find another job. You are fortunate to receive cheap prescriptions and health care…..those benefits are priceless. Jobs are lost everyday. Feel secure .
@Gene- we are thankful to have jobs, good benefits and pension for sure, however we also have steps that haven’t been honored as promised and not received any raises while the county has a surplus (over 90 million) in reserve. Clearly, the funds are there to pay us and no one asked the taxpayer to pay higher rates either. Comparing private market financials to govt would really show you that engineers, CPA’s, attorneys, chiropractors, and most Master degree professionals make more and have higher earning potential on a year to year basis. Our job is not easy and most of us work during the summer months as teachers or something else. We do put in the time needed with our kids and do participate in after school activities to help our kids have the best schools experience possible. I don’t really know why there is so much negativity in the Dagger about teacher pay and lack of support for us. I do know that others have not gotten paid either and that the economy is still in shaky ground, however as I said prior the $$$ are there and no one is asking the taxpayer to pay more. So what gives? Can you honestly tell me when can 4 year teachers to be paid for their level of skill and experience? Is it really fair to have a 1st year teacher make the same $$$ as me? Is it fair to pay me the same as as 6 year teacher? The level of hate and antagonism towards our local teachers whom work with your children, grandchildren and young people is quite demoralizing and quite frankly I don’t understand what you have to gain by having teachers suffer more.
My good friend worked at a company for over 30 yrs. and was let go . He was replaced with a young person. The company then asked him to train their new employee. He declined. The company saved money by replacing him with a cheaper & eager college graduate. There is always someone waiting to replace you. Sorry , but true.
Well, assuming that EVERYONE here is correct, that means that there will be a LOT of openings for teachers in HCPS in the next few years, which means that everyone who thinks that teachers are riding the gravy-train will have an unprecedented opportunity to become a teacher!
So now’s the time to literally put your money where your mouth is. Get back to college and get your teaching certificate now while there is about to be a mass exodus from the school system! Guaranteed employment with all the perks, benefits, and summers off that you proclaim so loudly when pointing the finger at everyone else!
Yep, Hemlock, you have it right. I guess we will be hearing in the next month or so that HCPS has a bunch of openings and can’t find qualified teachers to fill them. Well, maybe not.
And I sure am glad that Ryan is not disheveled and that he doesn’t want taxes to be raised. Maybe I have that taxes part wrong. Just because he hasn’t asked that taxes be raised doesn’t mean that he doesn’t want it to happen. Not sure where he thinks the money might come from other than new and additional taxes. Ryan? Where might the recurring funding come from? Could you offer some examples of recurring expenditures that could be reduced or eliminated so that teachers can get their recurring salary levels raised?
Pay go.
My sister teaches elementary school in Baltimore County. I also have several friends and neighbors who are teachers. I have the utmost respect for them. Some people view teaching as a “gravy” job and I disagree. My sister is always busy working on lesson plans, worrying about students who aren’t performing up to par developmentally, planning parent/teacher conferences, etc. all while attending graduate school. My sister and most of the other teachers I know have jobs over the summer as well. That being said, in this unfortunate economic climate, teachers are not the only ones not getting pay raises. I work in a large private sector company. I have been here for 8 years and make only $36K. I also just finished my Master’s degree and therefore have been looking for a more appropriate job for months. I haven’t had a raise in 3 years, my company did away with our bonus program 2 years ago, and this year, they implemented an extremely expensive new health care plan with a $4,000 deductible that’s costing me $500/month. Personally, I’d kill to make $57K. My professor once told me that if I find a job using the skills I’ve obtained in graduate school, I should not accept less than $55K. Either way, I guess it’s all relevant. I may be wrong, but cost of living is a bit higher in Baltimore County than in Harford County, is it not?
Just fyi this is a 2 year old article, though pretty much the same issues are still around today.
Sorry . Life is not fair for any of us.
Is Ryan Burbey that poneytailed, disheveled looking guy that keeps showing up to county council meetings demanding taxes be raised and the money siphoned away to teachers and schools? Pretty sure he is.
I have not asked taxes to be raised. I am not disheveled.
Maybe it’s the long hair – always seems to suggest sloppy; perhaps that’s not fair to use the word disheveled. You seem to be at many of these meetings – at the county level, local level; Aberdeen City Council, etc. I listened to you I think twice so far at the county council and not sure what you thought you might have been saying but it was pretty clear to me you were demanding they raise taxes and “invest” in the schools. You say you make $57K, and I’m also sure with the stipends, etc. that it pushes 60K and you pay so much less for your benefits than the private sector; it’s hard to imagine what would actually make you happy. I won’t compare what’s going on in Wisconsin to here because public employees salaries out there had become completely out of hand…6 figures commonly. It is human nature to want to maximize what you think you deserve. If you’re a great teacher what’s wrong with merit pay? Wouldn’t merit pay solve so many issues here? My goodness you could weed out the bad ones who’d just go away on their own and then the good ones could be well rewarded and the taxpayers wouldn’t get reemed. Even for young teachers – if they hussled and cared and proved themselves worthy they could move rapidly through to pay raises, and not to mention the obvious encentivizing. It’s what we all do in the private sector and it tends to create much more success for the company (in your case the kids). Get rid of the unions so you all don’t get treated like rubber stamped like images of each other because clearly humans are not all alike – the bright and busy ought to make more because they try harder.
Merit pay won’t work for teachers, because you won’t be judging them based on how well they teacher, it would be based on how well the students do and that is a lopsided equation.
There are many ways to judge success. It means your supervisor has to be aware of what you’re doing; the goals you’ve been asked to try to meet and any extra efforts you’ve made towards being a better teacher. That line about can’t judge teachers is a talking point that the unions want you to use because it helps bolster the narrative and reinforce the need for unions. Nonsense – it’s utter nonsense.
What you are describing is essentially already in place.
Then that same supervisor (if you say he/she is already in place) should sit down and review with each teacher individually 3 or 4 times each year the goals; the steps they’ve taken towards those goals…problems they’re having and why, etc. Parlay those conversations and what the supervisors have observed and turn that into merit pay. It’s not so hard really.
Well, if you double the number supervisors and APs, you might have a chance. Most schools this simply would not be feasible. There are too many teachers for the current number leaders to engage in that conversation that often. Also, teaching is not making tires. Each teacher can have a slightly different approach. If only it were that simple…
I’m not talking about manufacturing…that sector is such a fraction of the overall economy. How is it the private sector – small, medium and large businesses have been in the business of merit based pay for decades, centuries even. It doesn’t take a bunch of supervisors to provide reasonable reviews. If you had 20 people reporting to you it wouldn’t be hard to keep track of progress. There are easy things to quantify – and then the intangibles, those being more difficult to assess, but certainly not impossible. Everybody knows who does a good job – even coworkers know who works thier hiney off. Gosh if I were a bang up teacher I’d be ticked off about being forced into a situation like this. The only way for excellent teachers to be happy is to overpay everyone and then we turn into Wisconsin – in this economy that ship has sailed.
The long hair is a reflection of how long we have not received our steps. I will not cut it off until I receive compensation for all the steps I have lost. It also saves me about $270/year. Likewise, the beard will not be cut off until I get a step. It saves me about $150/year. Two year ago, I suggested that the council return the taxes to the pre-cut level. I explained that schools were in dire need of more funding. While at the Aberdeen City Council I begged them to advocate for more school funding since it disproportionally affects our community. I do not pay less for my benefits than many in the private sector. I do make about $60,000 now that I am a department chair, but that requires me to work much more than the pay merits.
Merit pay is fraught with problems. I am an excellent teacher but depending on the student group and the benchmarks, merit pay could be difficult if not impossible to meet. The point you are missing is that most teachers give all they can and dramatically improve their students lives both in and out of the classroom. Merit pay would create a system where no one would want to teach in tougher environments. Schools really aren’t comparable to the private sector. We deal with children who are individuals and are developing at different rates.
While you may think that unions protect “bad” teachers, this simply is not the case. HCEA and other teacher unions protect our contract. We ensure that teachers can bargain. We ensure that teachers’ rights and students’ rights are protected. There already is a process in place to “weed out” “bad teachers”. It is incumbent on the administration to follow this process if it is needed.
Without HCEA, teachers would currently have horrible healthcare coverage with ridiculous out-of pocket expenses and deductibles. We also would be discriminated against and would serve at the pleasure of principals.
Then this is more about the union than it is about teaching. There are a ton of benchmarks beyond getting stuck with the slow learners. What about quantifiable improvement; not to mention simply being reliable and giving good efforts. You can’t tell me every teacher out there tries as hard as they can and always to an equal level because I’ll tell you right now you’re full of it. Teachers are humans like the rest of us – some are lazy, some barely graduated college, some join every club and committee because they want to be involved while others skate by.