At an unusual and perhaps unprecedented meeting called by the Harford Delegation to discuss a controversial high school program known as “Drama Therapy”, Harford Schools Superintendent Robert Tomback acknowledged for the first time that mistakes had been made with the Drama Therapy program presented at a Havre de Grace High School assembly on December 4, 2009.
Dr. Tomback later told The Dagger that Drama Therapy was still under an internal investigation, involving what he called a “personnel matter that is being addressed” Tomback wouldn’t comment further, citing the negotiated agreement with school employees.
Drama Therapy is a drama production, formerly promoted by Harford County Schools and jointly developed by teachers and counselors at the Havre de Grace High, to help teens deal with serious issues. Drama Therapy has been presented in each of the past four years, but much of the content is written by students or alumni, and changes from year to year. The 2009 production, involving teen suicide, incest, abortion and recovered memory of sexual abuse, raised concerns among some area parents who questioned the therapeutic value and appropriateness of the material and said parents should have been asked for their consent prior to the mandatory school assembly.
While school personnel urged students to seek counseling to deal with issues addressed during the performance, legislators at the meeting raised questions about negative reactions from some students. Senator Nancy Jacobs asked Dr. Tomback about a student who became upset at a suicide portrayed by a student-actress on stage. To calm the student, Jacobs said the drama teacher later had to show the student that the actress was not actually dead.
Both Dr. Tomback and Executive Director of Secondary Education David Volrath, who was also in attendance, said they were not aware of the incident. A request for comments from Havre de Grace Drama teacher Mark Cummins and Principal Patricia Walling was not immediately returned.
Delegate Susan McComas later asked about other students who may have been harmed, asking Tomback “What are you going to do about that?”
Tomback didn’t respond immediately but later said that a plan was being developed for Drama Therapy which he predicted would have an opt-in, as opposed to an opt-out, provision for parents, and he said that material should be approved in advance. He acknowledged differing opinions in the Havre de Grace school community about Drama Therapy, saying the program may have had some positive and negative aspects, but “You can’t un-ring the bell.” adding, “The battle has been fought, let’s move to the peace table.”
Maryland Public Information Act Request
Dr. Tomback was calling for peace in the school community, but he had another battle on his hands with legislators who wanted to see the content of Drama Therapy and had questions about the delivery of the program.
Acting in response to a constituent, Delegate Rick Impallaria had written a letter to Tomback on January 12, 2010, asking for a DVD of the live performance shown to students in early December. Tomback wrote a letter back on January 22, telling Impallaria that the “proper procedure” in accordance with the Maryland Public Information Act (MPIA) was for Impallaria to provide a written request under the Act and after making the request, to either come to the schools’ headquarters in Bel Air to view the DVD, or pay a fee to obtain a copy.
Teri Kranefeld, manager of communications for HCPS, explained Tomback’s actions this way:
“Del. Impallaria requested a physical copy of the DVD in order to view the performance. However, to release the physical DVD to an outside party, a formal MPIA written request is required for the protection of the students involved. At this time, we are working directly with Del. Impallaria to fulfill his request to view the DVD at his earliest convenience.”
Although all signs seem to point to the request being granted, it’s worth noting that MPIA requests can be denied under certain circumstances.
Impallaria said he was “appalled” by the move, which also prompted a request from the rest of the Harford Delegation to see the DVD. A meeting for that purpose was held on Thursday, February 4 in a conference room at the Lowe House Office Building in Annapolis. In addition to several Havre de Grace parents, in attendance were Delegate Impallaria, Delegation Chair J.B. Jennings, Delegate B. Daniel Riley, Delegate Wayne Norman, Delegate Susan McComas, Delegate Donna Stifler and State Senator Nancy Jacobs. Delegate Mary-Dulany James made a brief appearance to say that she wanted to attend, but had another commitment.
In the end, the screening didn’t happen because of audio problems with the one DVD provided by Mr. Volrath of HCPS. Legislators had wanted individual copies, which Volrath said would be made if they would promise that the video wouldn’t end up on the internet. Volrath said his concerns were for the sake of the students involved.
Even without screening the DVD, Dr. Tomback spent over an hour in the hot seat as legislators expressed annoyance and disbelief over the MPIA issue, saying they would seek an opinion from the Maryland Attorney General as to when the formality of an MPIA request was required.
But legislators also expressed a desire for a better relationship, at times explaining their governmental role and even offering some advice to the new superintendent, who has had some miscommunications with parents and employees in his first year on the job.
Throughout, Dr. Tomback maintained the formal communication style that is becoming his trademark, if not a liability in this case. He said he intended no disrespect and wanted to work collaboratively: “I will work with the Delegation to comply with expectations to the greatest extent that I can.” But he stood by his position, saying he had consulted with legal counsel and that the MPIA filing request was ‘standard practice”.
Several legislators noted that written MPIA requests, which can take up to thirty days for a response, hadn’t been required in the past. Under questioning from Delegate Stifler, who said legislators were prompted by parents who wanted answers, Tomback said he was following “protocol”. When Delegate Norman, who is also a practicing attorney, called MPIA “overkill”, Tomback didn’t budge, saying that in the future, “I will respond promptly under whatever rules apply, case by case.”
Tomback later said “If there are hard feelings or misunderstandings, I’m sorry for that. If you’re dissatisfied with my response, tell me.” And tell him, they did.
State Senator Nancy Jacobs said she’d had open communications with the previous superintendent that she hoped would continue with Tomback. Jacobs, who was first elected as a delegate in 1994, told Tomback “I’ve never seen it like this, never. It’s like we’re being treated like we’re your enemy.” Later adding, “There’s supposed to be a level of trust. You’re not doing yourself any favors.” and after citing state law said, “If we want to see curriculum, by law, we’re allowed to see it.”
Delegate Riley also called for open communication, saying “Openness is important for our success; it seems to have closed with this incident. I don’t want to see it continue.” He called the MPIA request a “stalling tactic” and asked Tomback to “have faith in us without putting up little road blocks.” Riley said that when he was a Harford County teacher, he had to get permission before presenting new material and he asked if such permission had been granted and if proper procedures had been followed for Drama Therapy. He said “The program might be good, but the ultimate judge is the parents.”
Delegation Chairman J.B. Jennings explained the role of legislators, saying that constituent service was part of the job and that people came to legislators looking for help when they hit resistance elsewhere: “I want you to succeed, but please understand the job we have.” Jennings reminded Tomback that that there were 188 representatives in Annapolis all vying for limited resources: “Of all the representatives here [in Annapolis], only eleven are fighting for you and your budget. Please respect us and we’ll respect you.”
Delegate Impallaria battled with Dr. Tomback throughout, saying he was insulted by Tomback’s actions and raising questions about the content of Drama Therapy. Impallaria said he was reserving judgment until he saw the video, but having heard about content involving abortion, Impallaria said, “I don’t want my child indoctrinated” adding that he also wanted to know how Drama Therapy got this far. That’s what elicited something of an apology from Tomback, who first reiterated that changes were being made for the future of Drama Therapy, and then said that he couldn’t talk about employees, and finally adding, “There were mistakes made.”
Here is the letter from Dr. Tomback to Delegate Impallaria that prompted the meeting:
It sounds like the legislators simply want some answers and that the school system is trying to prevent any answers from being distributed. Did the legislators file PIA requests for information in the past? It seems silly that the school system would spend a month to share information with each other. No wonder government is so messed up!
Can the public view the video? We pay taxes to support the school system. Why was the student upset by the suicide scene? Seems sort of vague that they are just upset. Was it very personal to him or her?
Why didn’t the legislators attend the meeting at the school nd watch the video then?
The legislators were in session and couldn’t ride from Annapolis to Havre de Grace. BOE members were all provided access to the video to watch at their convenience. The delegation has gotten calls from their constituents and wanted to see the video themselves without the filter of the media and outside comments. They are just trying to do their job and they only are in session for 90 days. According to them, this is the first time in 16 years that a superintendent has acted this way. Furthermore, they say this is not something that occurs in other counties. There was no protocol being followed except the perceived one that Dr. Tomback decided on.
Rick Impallaria was not the only person in the room upset about this either. Nancy Jacobs represents HVDG and also expressed concern about parental rights. Apparently it is in the Harford County Handbook that they have the right to see anything that their kids are taught and/or shown. This whole issue could have been avoided if they would have shown the tape right away and the school and school system admitted they weren’t following their own policies.
Sorry don’t buy the drive from Annapolis thing! Session is out by the time with plenty of time to drive back. Next it is not the job of the house of delegates to provide oversight over the superintendent of schools. That is the BOE’s job. He is answerable to them who in turn re supposed to be nswerable to you the citizen.
Cdev, I wish you were right. The BOE doesn’t answer to the public, they answer to the governor who doesn’t care one little bit about Harford Couny. Once we have elections there will be BOE members who answer to the public. I am SO looking forward to that day!
In a sense if the current members wish to continue they should start answering to the public. Either way the Superintendent is not accountable to the House of Delegates though they should try to get along. BTW He never told Impeleria he could not have the tape he told him he would have to follow the rules. Just like everyone else.
Cdev, if they wanted to do what is best for the kids they should listen and respond to inquiries regardless of whether or not they want to keep their positions. Unfortunately, that doesn’t seem to be their main objective. Gaining power for themselves is what they seem to be after.
No one said it was their job to provide oversight of the superintendent but who helps get the money for this county anyway? What if the Superintendent needs something from them and they have a shaky relationship. That is not good for the students in this county. You must not have read what I wrote before – this is unprecendented and not common practice in any other county in the state.
By the way, the Superintendent never said he would have let them have the video even after they filed for it. Maybe he never intended to hand it over. If the BOE wasn’t so pathetic, I would say it was their job to provide oversight. There are a few members who actually ask questions but not nearly enough. Maybe they are all embarassed that they hired him while he has continued to show a lack of leadership and understanding of the way Harford County operates.
Kate,
It might be a good thing that he doesn’t know how HCPS “operates”, but it is about time he stopped acting like Dr. Haas and made Volrath and company do their jobs. It appears he is drinking the cover up Kool Aid. Just what we need…..
He seems to be starting to show flashes of the independence we hope for. That said it is also unprecendented for the superintendent of schools to be summoned to Annapolis by or delegation. He never said he wouldn’t release them a copy. In fact I believe I read that they would get one provided it did not end up on the internet!
Nancy Jacobs is a born-again Christian that does not support any open discussion of abortion or birth control beyond abstinence in schools. She is an ideologue in the biggest way, and is fighting against countless reams of research data that suggest students are MUCH better off confronting these type situations and discussing them with teachers and classmates. So many Dagger posters seem to think that any discussion of such events inappropriately impacts a student’s opinions and perspectives. GIVE STUDENTS A BIT MORE CREDIT… THEY ARE INTELLIGENT PEOPLE THAT CAN FACE VERY CHALLENGING TOPICS WITH A CRITICAL EYE. I bet the biggest problem with things such as Drama Therapy are the close-minded perspectives of conservative citizens, or even more close-minded perspectives of ultra-conservative ideologue politicians like Jacobs, Stiffler, Impallaria, and McDonough.
Besides the fact that you are willing to overlook parental notification and access laws and rules when it suits your purposes, do you really think that the staff and students of Havre de Grace High are qualified to practice therapy?
Proud Democrat, do you believe that the only parents who don’t want teachers and students giving therapy about abortion are christians? Does it make us all ideologues to want to explain these issues to our own children without interference from HCPS? Does it make you an idealogue to take this right away from the parents and make it part of HCPS curriculum? Calling someone who happens to disagree with you an ideologue is a cop out. How about we revisit the facts?
There was a study reported in the past week or so that showed that when abstinence is taught without bringing religion into it, it was much more affective that teaching about abortion and birth control. See, Planned Parenthood and other organizations never do studies leaving religion out of it. Religion isn’t the reason many people are against abortion. Some just think it’s murder, plain and simple. You don’t have to be religious in anyway to think murder is wrong. Would you kill your neighbor if he became an inconvenience? Of course not. Those of us who believe life starts at conception feel the same way. So I would ask you, who is being close minded? I can respect someone’s opinion who does not believe life starts at conception. I disagree, but they have a right to their opinion. Yet, I’m close minded? I think you have something backwards here, Proud Democrat.
I still remember the day, a few years ago, when my oldest daughter came home and asked my husband and I why we were against abortion? Her teacher explained to them that it is just a group of cells, like a tumor. If you didn’t want to have a tumor you would have it removed. I was flabbergasted! How could she “face this topic with a critical eye” if she was only given half of the information? They didn’t discuss life, didn’t even discuss that some people are against abortion.
She got quite a lesson that day, and so did the teacher and principal! We showed her sonogram pictures of herself, we let her listen to a 6 week fetus’ heartbeat. We showed her pictures of 1st trimester babies trying to move away from the surgical instruments as they cut off arms and legs and hands to make the “delivery” easier on the mom. She cried a good long time and couldn’t believe her teacher would only tell them one side of the debate. At that point we didn’t feel it was necessary to go into partial birth abortion or the procedure where the baby is born alive and left in a room to die alone,taking up to many hours. It would have been too traumatic for her at that moment. And I, as her parent, got to make that decision. Not a teacher who has no training in therapy. Do you disagree this is my right as her parent? Or does that just make me close minded?
Furthermore do the kids of Del. Impelaria go to public school in Harford County? I thought they went to a private school so he doesn’t have to worry about them being “indoctornated” by HCPS!
Del. Impelaria does have a child who attends a harford county public school.
Sandy- to your point…THIS is exactly why DramaTherapy is a valuable tool! The purpose of DramaTherapy is to start a dialogue, to be thought provoking! I have been to a number of performances in the past years, however didn’t see this one. But I can remember discussing with my peers, my children etc. There was times during some of the performances that I was shocked, a bit appalled…BUT in the end it opened up a conversation with my children. Do you honestly think you would ever had an open and honest conversation with your child about abortion IF it hadn’t been opened up by the teaching at the school?
I do not believe it is fair for the legislative members to be making this kind of deal over DramaTherapy without doing their due diligence. Come to Havre de Grace and you will find that only a extremely small percentage of people are against DramaTherapy. The kids have moved on, it is a few parents that won’t let it go. Their arguement has changed multiple times! First it was content, then it was the timeliness of a response, then it was not telling them about it, then it was about it was an after school activity…and the list goes on. You will find in life some people just have to make waves and fight for no reason.
If you really want to know what DramaTherapy has done to help/hurt students, let me offer you a few suggestions:
1. Ask how the few parents are creating “drama” has impacted friendships.
2. Do not go watch the viewing of the show alone…Take a teenager. Do not sit with them, instead sit apart, then go have a conversation with that teenager afterwards
3. Talk to the students in the school that saw it.
4. Find out how many of the people at the last viewing have students at HDG, or any other HCPS.
5. Find out how many of the 4 parents crusading this cause actually have a student in HDG High School.
Brenda, thanks for your reply. As I have said, I don’t have children at HGHS so I really don’t know the details. Personally, I wouldn’t want this at our schools. I am against schools teaching things that I feel belong in the home and prefer to leave the teachers to teach reading, math, science, etc. But I certainly recognize that I am coming from a very conservative point of view and I know that not everyone agrees with that. We all are entitled to our own opinions. I know that some people feel harm was done to their children through this Drama Therapy program and I quite honestly can’t speak to that because I know nothing about it.
As for your question about me speaking with my kids about abortion, yes, we did have that conversation in age appropriate terms with my daughter. I am angry that a middle school teacher brought this up in school and forced us to address issues we knew she wasn’t ready to hear. Each child has their own rate of maturing and my daughter was not socially ready for this in depth of a conversation in 6th grade. You are speaking about high school kids so there should be no 6th graders forced into this unless their parents sent them to the evening performance, I understand that much.
My child was devastated by a teacher pushing an agenda. It was inappropriate to present it that way, inappropriate to introduce it to her at all. She was more on the immature side of development in 6th grade and this shouldn’t have happened to her.
She is 18 now, how time flies, and an affective pro-life advocate. When she read about the Tebow Superbowl ad, she was appalled that anyone tried to stop it. When she read that it promoted violence against women because he tackled his mom, she understood that the pro-abortion groups were just looking for something to complain about. And then she told me that she can’t believe that any mother would choose to kill her baby rather than risk her own life. She is secure in the knowledge that I would give my life for my kids without a second thought. She doesn’t have children, but one day I know she will feel the same way.
Brenda, I didn’t mean to go off on an abortion tangent as I did, but I did want to show that yes, we have these conversations with our children regularly. We have no need for a school program to talk to our children. And I don’t believe anyone should be administering any type of therapy without the proper training. Maybe it’s just a bad name for the program, I don’t know, but the content does seem kind of touchy for an ENTIRE student body.
I appreciate your information, and for you not attacking me as some sort of crazy person, lol. That seems to be par for the course here on the Dagger lately. If you disagree you can’t discuss it, you just must be close minded or something. I’ve learned something from your post and appreciate you taking the time. Thank you.
I’ll carry the torch. Sandy, you sound like a crazy person to me, and in this case….majority rules!
Mama Mia,
What do you mean? That was a logical and rational argument for her point.
Does disagreeing with your stance on abortion make her crazy?
Mama Mia, What exactly makes you think I sound crazy? And what majority are you speaking of? I’m sorry, I just didn’t understand your comment. Would you mind being a bit more specific?
Sandy, how could the topic have come up in sixth grade when Physical Science is taught in sixth grade?
Why do you always seem to have stories for these topics, but all the facts don’t fit?
Have you been fighting character education in the schools?
Are you only interested in supporting open discussion of issues you agree with?
First Citizen, What does physical science have to do with anything? Are you assuming that is the teacher who brought it up? Actually it was brought up in her health class.
I don’t know what you mean by facts not fitting. If you choose not to believe me I don’t really care. What would be the purpose of me taking the time to post things that are untrue? That doesn’t even make sense.
Fighting character education in the schools? I don’t even know what you are talking about? I’m not fighting it, but I might if I had more information. From the tone of your post I’m pretty sure I have taught my children to have much more “Character” than you obviously have. They know about speaking to others respectfully, they do well in school, and they have all worked since they turned 14. Not because I made them, but because they chose to. And all 3 of my teens work in fields that help others. They work hard and are polite. They sure didn’t learn that in school.
Are you implying that I have tried to stop an open discussion? I have no idea what you mean by that.
Sandy if your child is a senior then when she was in 6th grade circa 2004 there was no Health curriculum in Harford County. Science covered a Here’s Looking at You Drug Unit in 6th and 8th grade. 6th focused on Alcohol and Tobacco and 8th focused on other drugs as well as making good decisions and how to say no. 7th was where Family Life was taught which consited soley on the Anatomy and basic development of the child. No mention of Birth Control etc. At least if your child’s teacher stuck to the Curriculum guide but if your school taught Health it was done without a county approved curriculum!
Cdev, First off, wrong daughter. I was talking about my oldest who is now in her 2nd year of college. As far as health curriculum, I don’t know what you mean. All 3 of my kids had health in school, as one of the unified arts. They were put in classes randomly, some had health, Tech Ed, Family and Consumer Sciences, general music, and art. They had one each quarter, meaning they would have all but one. The hope was that the next year they would get the class they didn’t have the year before. It didn’t always work into the schedule, one year my middle daughter had music twice in one year.
As far as a proper curriculum, I have no idea. They did have text books. I had kids at FMS and BAMS and they both taught health as a unified art. I don’t know about the other middle schools. BAMS had computers instead of Family and Consumer Sciences (Home Ec).
This isn’t directed just at you, Cdev, but why is it that everyone thinks they know what classes my kids took better than I do?
I don’t I am simply saying you said your daughter took health and Health did not have an approved seperate curriculum until 2005 ish Prior to tht in middle school it was part of science. SOme schools went ahead and tught it in UA without an approved curriculum.
Seems like they do quite a bit without the proper approval!
they being the school!
More than we will ever possibly know…and if you do know about it, they just keep dragging it out and covering it up and dragging it out and covering it…well you get the picture.
I think the problem is that too many parents think they know what is ‘best for their child’ despite the fact that teachers are certified professionals that have a graduate level understanding of the needs of either developing children or teenagers. With all do respect, while parents clearly know their own child better than a teacher does, that does not mean that parents know what is best for the development of a child. Most parents have not had the training that teachers have had, and thus I suggest more societal acceptance that some people out there have a considerably higher understanding of what to teach kids (and when to teach them) than you do!
Sadly, we too often as a society take the word of untrained voices on such things as is being discussed here (Focus on the Family for instance has done so much harm to child rearing in this country it cannot yet be enumerated) rather than listening to the most trained professionals in society when it comes to understanding kids: teachers, YA and Children’s librarians, and pediatricians.
Proud Democrat, parents, at least involved parents, know their own children best. If you are talking about placing a child in a certain “level” class, like do they belong in honors, AP, college prep or whatever, I think in most cases you are correct. Teachers, if you happen to have a good one, are more objective than a parent might be. When my oldest started middle school, she was placed in the excellerated program. I called her guidance counselor because I didn’t think it was a good idea. Yes, she tested high on all the standardized tests and got mostly A’s on everything she did. However, I know she was lazy and instead of working hard to get a solid A she would squeek by with 90’s. The guidance counselor told me that is what makes her the perfect candidate for this program. She has figured out exactly what the teachers are looking for to get an A without stressing herself out over it. THAT was an interesting insight that I had never considered. So, we went with the recommendation and she did very well.
But, when you are talking about social development and what kinds of information kids are ready for at a certain age, you are in a whole different ballpark. Walk through a middle school, kids develop at all different rates.
When teachers are teaching facts, your comment makes sense to me. I don’t hold teachers on as high a pedistal as you do, we had some pretty horrible teachers as well as some amazing teachers. But when they start teaching opinions is when I have a problem.
I don’t know if you are aware of this, but the Federal Gov’t, as part of one of their programs (NCLB or something similar) requires all schools to have Constitution Day. If they don’t, they forfeit a lot of money which is the way the fed gov’t controls the schools. One of the social studies teachers at our middle school used that day to require the kids to write to the president to explain to him why it was unconstitutional to make them have Constitution Day. I didn’t hear a lot about this teacher from my kids, he was pretty quiet so they didn’t come home with funny stories about him. But I will remember him forever for that assignment. My kids learned a lot about the constitution that day.
I disagree with you about teachers knowing what is best for the kids at what time. There is no magic going on in colleges that makes teachers just “know” what is right for every child. They may have a good idea of what is right for the average child, but I have yet to meet a child who is average in everything they do. My daughter is studying a double major, elementary education and deaf studies. Her books are goofy. If we believed everything that was in them about child development we would worry about every child in the country. My great niece just turned 2. She should know all her colors. She doesn’t. But she can count to 20, knows most of her letters and letter sounds, knows many artists (her absolute favorite is Starry Night-weird I know) and can tell you a lot of composers when she hears their music (she loves Mozart and Taylor Swift). She is lovable, she shares well, feeds herself, speaks well, knows a good bit of sign language from my daughter, asks for food and drinks if she is hungry or thirsty, I could go on and on. She’s a normal 2 year old. She doesn’t know her colors because she doesn’t care about that right now. Big deal. One day when I point out colors, like I do every day, she will take an interest and learn them. Right now, she’s too busy with other things.
I will NEVER turn my child’s development over to a teacher. I will ask for their advice. Is my son doing such and such in school? I’m having this problem and thought you may have successfully dealt with it before, do you have any ideas? But I will NEVER just blindly trust anyone with my children and their development and education. That teaching degree means far less to me than experience, and no one has as much experience with my children as I do.
I know this will add fuel to the fire brewing, but I didn’t send my kids to pre-school. Most people looked at me like I had 3 heads, but I knew there was nothing they would learn in pre-school that I couldn’t teach them at home. And I didn’t trust anyone with my kids! You just never know. I’m sure you heard that a middle/high school physical ed. teacher was just found guilty of child molestation. My kids HAD him as a teacher. Should I just blindly close my eyes and trust all teachers? Especially with little ones who may not be able to tell me what happened? I don’t think so.
I take my responsibility for my kids seriously. If they mess up, I don’t blame the schools, I blame either them or myself, depending on the situation. School is where they go to learn, not where they go to develop into responsible adults.
Very well said, Sandy.
Hmmmm – seems to me “INVOLVED” parents who know their children so doggone well would be truly involved the last 3 years to know what DTherapy was – especially when they had kids in the HS prior. To be SUDDENLY involved because someone is offended by something is not involvement.
Tom Barnes –
Do you think that castigating parents about the timeliness of their involvement with regards to their children’s education somehow absolves the HCPS from their poor management and decision making with Drama Therapy?
Your argument seems insulting, hollow and weak to me.
Tom Barnes – was Drama Therapy the same production yearly? I don’t understand why you keep attacking people who are pointing out that policies were violated. The parents aren’t wrong for bringing up the issue and yes it does have to do with the content. Would you be offended if some science teacher started teaching creationism in school even if that teacher had never done it before? I betcha you would have been.
Sarah it has to do with content? Not according to those who started this campaign. In fact they went to great pains to say it had nothing to do with content!
Sarah P – I haven’t “attacked” a single person. Do you mean why don’t I share the same opinion with the ones that are attacking Mark Cummins or Mrs. Walings or Mr. Tomback? Go back and review, sweetheart, because your way off mark.
Hey there Joey-boy, long time no hear! You kill me. Just sent me a zinger! Oh yeah you did.
Oh, btw, Joey, what I stated wasn’t an “argument.” It was an OPINION on how **I** see things based on the knowledge that I have about the situation. That said: Honestly? I couldn’t POSSIBILY care any less about how any of you ‘parent’ your kids, so I have no “argument” because there isn’t anything to argue about. I take care of mine, ya’ll take care of yours, but don’t expect sympathy because ‘you’ can cry on cue for the camera.
Cdev – they keep flipflopping and have no solid message or cause. That is why so many are just saying, “WTH? This doesn’t matter” and laughing.
Tom Barnes –
Opinion or argument, you decide? http://tiny.cc/Tz1qS
Joe
Sorry there Tommy Boy. You seem to have issues with females since you think it is okay to call me “sweetheart.” Your condescending tone came through loud and clear. Since you know so much about what happened and how curriculum is decided in the county, why don’t you just explain it to people on here. You are trying to retreat and say you didn’t “attack” anyone but you certainly made “insinuations” about parental involvement and motives.
Again, was Drama Therapy the same production yearly? If not, then how would a parent know ahead of time what was coming? Simulated drinking games, threats of abortion, simulated suicide, and talk of sexual conquests aren’t appropriate for a mandatory school assembly. You keep avoiding that issue. I guess if no one in the school system did anything wrong, nothing will change because of the uninvolved parent(s).
Joey boy, I don’t follow links from people I deem as troublemakers. 😉 I stand by what I’ve said.
Sarah P – I have. They don’t listen and I won’t waste my time. The wild ranting groupies don’t want to hear. Oh – and I HAVE stated on past articles about DTherapy and how it just about the same every year. The students that have participated and the INVOLVED parents that have participated can tell you the same thing. Nice try.
BTW, I have no problem with women, sweetheart. I’m using THAT word regarding you instead of the one that comes to mind. And being a Christian man, I would prefer it be left in mind and not pass my lips.
6th is Earth Science
7th is Life Science
8th is Physical Science
Health was put into the unified arts middle school rotation some time between when my kids attended BAMS (college freshman and high school sophomore); however, CDEV is right that HCPS curriculum does not touch anything but abstinence, IF a teacher stays within the curriculum. I often talk to recent HS graduates and a few say their teachers discussed alternatives.
Recently, last year, I think they pioloted birth control at a couple schools.
And Sandy,
The crazy reference might be because you talk about respect for you point of view, but don’t tolerate others, on this and other threads.
You don’t think I tolerate others’ points of view? Have you actually read my posts? Was I intolerant in my post to Brenda or Mama Mia? I would have to say that you and Mama Mia are the ones who are being intolerant. I don’t recall calling anyone crazy. I don’t even remember asking anyone to respect my point of view. This section is called “Speak Your Mind” “Tell Us What You’re Thinking.” I have posted what I think about the topics. So have others. I don’t resort to name calling and vulgarity like others do. To be completely honest, I have no idea what you are talking about.
Why was the performance taped if there was such concern over distribution? Couldn’t anyone have shown up that night and taped it? I may be missing the subtleties, but perhaps a more open and FRIENDLY response would be to have a copy available for viewing at the Roberty Building. This would keep it in HCPS’s control and show due diligence to concerns of the inevitable You Tube appearance.
It’s already been put on the table that mistakes were made and are being addressed. It seems like the best way to deflate the issue and make progress is to show it the light of day.
Alan how would you feel if I taped you mowing your lawn in front of your house and put it on You Tube?
I think that what everyone is missing here is a few things:
1. None of you have seen it and neither have the legislators.
2. None of you or the Legislators have spoken to the kids that saw it.
3. A very miniscule sampling of parents (one and a few of her friends) are complaining.
4. The administration has said there was mistakes and put a plan into place.
5. The argument that the parent initially made has been altered over the course of time.
6. Admitting mistakes and putting a plan in place was not enough for this one parent.
7. When this parent wasn’t able to succeed in ending the program (I believe her mission all along) she has discussed lawsuits and monetary rewards.
8. When this first came to light, the complaining parent garnered support of three or four of her friends, some of which do not even have children in the school. But the program had over 500 people (many of whom are parents) join the FaceBook page supporting dramatherapy. So by sheer numbers within the community this parent is WAY outnumbered.
9. Before you pass judgement on something you haven’t seen, ask to be able to view it and view it with a teenager. Then see what conversations it illicits. The point of view of the vignette doesn’t have to be yours. That does NOT mean that you aren’t able to have a conversation that helps your child see other sides of an issue. In life your teenagers are going to be exposed to differing points of view, the point of Drama Therapy is to open a dialogue!
10. Walk down the hall of any high school and just listen. You might just be SHOCKED to learn what your little angels are talking about when out of your presence!
11. No teacher should have total control of a specific point of view! As a parent, conversation and communication in your household should be able to take care of this. Example: My son had a teacher who spouted her democratic views in class EVERYDAY to the point that there was little actual learning. She was actually one of the best influences my son ever had but not in the way you might think! He came home EVERYDAY with a new story and a new opionion she pushed on the class, it made for very interesting dinner conversation. I could always count on this teacher to give us fodder. This fodder came from MOST of the kids that took her class, it didn’t matter which of my sons friends came over, she provided us with debatable issues! And my son will tell you that he is a proud Republican specifically because of this teacher LOL
12. Just because something happens in school we do not approve of doesn’t necessarily make it a bad thing. IF you as a parent do your job and open the dialogue with your child!
13. Last but not least, we can NOT protect our children every minute of everyday. We have to let them formulate their own opinions based on experience. And some of the things that happen at school good and bad help them formulate those opinions.
(hopping off my soapbox)
Brenda –
Get over yourself!
Your premise does not hold the moral high ground here. HCPS violated their rules and protocol. Parents have a right to object and hold HCPS accountable, your treatise notwithstanding.
Joe
Atta boy, Joe!
Brenda,
As a taxpayer and concerned citizen, I went to the screening at the HdeG auditorium. The first thing I saw on entering the lobby of the auditorium was a warning sign about content and language in the presentation. I immediately thought, why would they give a warning about content and language for a presentation to adults, but required the students to watch it without first informing parents about the content and language?
We went into the auditorium, where, just before the tape was shown, we were told we would be seeing an unedited tape, and we were to keep an open mind when we watch it. However, despite being told it was unedited, I could very easily see the tape was edited. Again I thought, why would they want to show us an obviously edited tape? What was left out? Why was the audio suppressed in some segments?
I went to the viewing with an open mind. I left with the conclusion that HdeG High and the Harford County School Board are doing their best to cover up something and cannot be trusted. The best way for them to have handled the whole situation was to be open and honest. They have not been and deserve to be raked over the coals by parents and legislators.
Well said Brenda.
Very well said, Brenda! Your point of view is well articulated and supported. Sandy’s arguments are also cogently and thoughtfully expressed. Two sentence name calling and contradiction? Not so much…
I personally think the Supt. had a responsibility to the students who were taped not to distribute the video upon anyone’s request. The delegation, parents and other citizens have a right to make an appointment to view the materials- but not to have a copy that could be inadvertantly distributed.
The rules for video taping of students are very strict. Parental permission must be garnered and purposes and use must be agreed to. This is in the best interest of the student.
Give me a break! Go to You Tube and enter your favorite HS. I just tried Falston and there’s quite a few videos of events. I didn’t say it was right or wrong but let’s get real about the odds of this video making it there. My point was and still is, make it available for viewing in person upon request and let’s move on.
Cdev, if video taping me cutting my lawn rocks your boat then go for it. The play was a public performance wasn’t it?
Usually before any play I went to they instruct you that videotaping and photography is not permitted. Partly because of copy right but in schools because of the student issue too. Remeber your kid brought home a pink form about photographing and use of image? Well that was all part of it.
Never once in the six years I’ve been attending school functions has there ever been instruction to prohibit videotaping of performances.
I have been to many where they have asked for you not to videotape.
BTW if you had not consented to your childs image on the internet and someone puts it there because they took it in a school function how would you feel?
As a Drama Director for the past 15 years, I’ve never allowed any parents to videotape our actual performances. It is in our programs, on the signs on the doors and in the pre-show announcements.
Really?
Google your favorite HS. Now select videos right above where the Google logo appears.
Chuck you must spend a lot of time back stage. There are PAGES of postings for just about any HS. I think you’re showing your generation. Next time you have a performance ask how many people in the audience have a devive that will record video with them tonight.
I still say the video will likely make it out anyway.
Not that someone asked first.
Not that it’s right/or wrong.
Yes Alan…Really.
You will not find any of my productions online. There are NOT “pages of postings” about our local high school drama productions, and I am not so out of touch that I don’t know that people can record video on numerous kinds of devices.
The bottom line is that anyone can try to bootleg copyrighted material. It happens all the time. The school system, however, can not produce and distribute videos of material produced through an arrangement with a dramatic publishing company without prior approval from that company. Usually that would involve another licensing fee and more royalties paid to the owners of the material.
Horse hockey. At best that is a very inconsistantly enforced policy. Hey parents, don’t take photos of something your kids practiced months for ’cause we’re “protecting” them. Isn’t there something more worthy of our time? If this is really where things are going then it’s very sad.
Alan,
If the material is copyrighted ,(as is the case with “Check, Please” — a one-act play performed as part of the Drama Therapy presentation, It is owned by Playscripts, Inc — Check it out at http://www.playscripts.com) , then you can not videotape the performance, much less distribute it to others.
Still photos are permitted, in fact, encouraged by Playscripts, Inc — I’ve produced a number of their plays myself. — I know that people will often make an archival copy of a performance for themselves, but that doesn’t negate the face that it is an infringement on the author’s copyrighted material.
Alan – I know the copyright laws VERY well when it comes to videotaping and photo’s of stage productions. For instance, our theatre group did Seussical Junior last year. It is absolutely 100% expressed in the contract (and yes – one HAS to contract to do these plays) you are not allowed to videotape the performance at all. Not parents, not a professional – no one. Just this one play imparticular has a $50k fine for taping and a $50k fine for EACH tape/dvd/cd distributed. Most script clearinghouses have these rules as CONTRACTUAL – and they do infact scour the net as well as attend venues to be sure anything against a contract isn’t going on. So, it’s not really horse hockey – it’s serious business. 😉 If you are finding productions online that are not suppose to be videotaped without either a signed contract (i.e things from MTI, Pioneer, Dramatists, etc), the person who posted it is the one responsible for any fines. People should be more careful. Tomback is correct in his handling of this matter and the delegates are dead wrong. You would think they would know the law and want to abide by the law without throwing angry temper tantrums, wouldn’t you?
Tom –
Yes, copyright enforcement agents are prolific. So since we’ve now taken this over to the strict interpretation of the law, should the teacher (alleged bootlegger) that consigned a professional to video tape the performance fork up $50K or is that something that Dr. Tomback has to include in next years numbers? Since the tape has already been “edited” and shown to an audience should we be prepared for larger fines? Do these fines increase each time the current copy that has been distributed to each school board member cost $50K? WOW! you’re right, this is serious! I’m calling the Tea Party to rally a DVD burning. Thanks to you we could be saving the county tax payers hundreds of thousands of dollars.
The taped copy of the performance already exists. Copies have been made AND distributed. Were screwed.
All these issues have little to do with the
“don’t worry about it, we got it” attitude. The message that is clearly being broadcast is that we needn’t be bothered -and that bothers me.
HCPS should take a lesson from Toyota’s misfortune and see how years of hard work, good product, and happy customers can be shot to the crapper by trying to internalize a known issues.
But doesn’t the party of Tate want the law and rules followed to the fullest extent? You betcha 😉
Tom Barnes –
It’s “in particular” not “imparticular”.
When the little red squiggly line appears under a word in a document or blog post as you’re typing it is an indicator that the spelling of the word may be incorrect.
Joe
Joe –
Don’t be a pinhead. You comment is petty and not helpful.
Alan
Ah – the pointless little Joey who doesn’t really exist and refuses to use his real name has to spend his time pointing out typo’s. It;s ok Joey – told you before I know your type and I have no use for your type. I’ve had foster kids with MUCH better manners then you.
Tom Barnes –
Post after post you are condescending to people who disagree with your argument.
Joe
Joey – Whatever LOL You are just a jackass and you are in good company. I’ll leave it at that.
Wow! Joe…talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
You are possiblt the most condescending person on this entire message forum.
Anyone, and I mean ANYONE who disagrees with YOUR argument is promply dismissed as a guttersnipe, a boor or an intellectual dimwit in as condescending a tone and manner as you are able to produce on a message board.
I have never once in ANY comment that you have posted seen you accept that there may be the possibility that someone else’s opinion or viewpoint is as good as the almighty Joseph Carouso’s viewpoint and it is evident that you think you are wiser than the rest of society. If that’s not a prime example of being condescending post after post, I don’t know what is.
Have a nice day.
John
Tom –
Don’t be a pinhead. You comment is petty and not helpful.
Alan
Well Alan, sometimes the truth hurts and sometimes a person just has to point out the obvious.
John – well said and exactly what I was thinking. It’s an “inciter” and not worthy of our time really.
Were previous years’ performances taped? Did the students/performers get the option to purchase them then?
Playscripts FAQ:
“Q: Can I videotape our production?”
“A: You must obtain prior permission to videotape any performance of one of our plays. Contact us with the details of your request.”
_______________________ __________________
Well, that’s not a no.
In any case I’ve gotten off on a tangent. I just think that transparency is something to strive for. Without it, our best efforts seem to get diverted by speculative chatter – like mine.
Taping a performance for the professional development of an actor is outside of the limitations of copyright. Selling or distributing is was the intent of the law is about. If your student taped themselves to critique their performance you think they’re breaking the law? This is a petty line of thought. It is distacting to the real issue and at this point because someone was HIRED to tape it and the recording exists your point is moot. I know Falston has stuff out there and I searched/found
HdG as well. If you can’t work a search engine let me know what school we’re talking about and I’ll post links if need be.
Alan – no it is NOT outside the limitations. If it is in the contract with the script clearhouse then it is ABSOLUTELY 100% illegal to videotape – no matter the reason.
So in other words, we have people upset that rules weren’t followed about Drama Therapy but yet they are now upset that rules are being followed? Color me surprised. You can’t have it both ways. Patience is needed, and rules need to be followed. If they aren’t, God knows someone is going to start screaming and gathering parents together to rant that their rights and their kids rights were violated as well if Dr. Tomback doesn’t comply with the MPIA. (And Jacobs comment about “you aren’t doing yourself any favors” should be taken as a veiled threat that Dr. Tomback should address with the state legislature. I never liked her and I never voted for her – and I certainly won’t be voting for her this time around either!)
Like her or not, Ms. Jacobs is a duly elected representative of the tax payers. I’m under the impression that the legislators were brought into this because some parents felt like they were not being heard. Technicalities of whether or not an answer to them is “required” is insulting to all of us. How hard would it have been to take a dvd to the meeting with the legislators or have a HCPS representative drive one down to Annapolis to be viewed NOT kept. I agree that the system and (respectfully) Dr. Tomback are not “doing themselves any favors” by being evasive. I think it’s time we treat each other as equals. I firmly believe that the theater program was implemented with the best of intentions, but has gone way off course. From what I’ve seen, the material was inappropriate and from what I’ve heard this is being addressed. This will no doubt make all drama programs pay for one or two folks with really bad judgement. This kind of thing wouldn’t happen in FHS, so the knee-jerk reaction is to say I have no dog in this fight. I disagree. I suggest that the group/individual at HdG that is making all the waves could have been treated right from the beginning and we COULD have put this to bed by now. On-line discussions like these are not going away and we have only a short time till an elected school board. Pro-active or re-active elections are to be determined by the way the tax payers feel they are being treated.
You are right, Alan – like it or not she is (but hopefully not for long).
As for the parents: They treated the matter as a life or death situation during record breaking snowfalls and closures for schools and the college. They HAVEN’T been the least bit reasonable in my mind. Follow the path of information and you will see that they didn’t want to wait a time with patience but rather go to extremes. The bottom line is as soon as anything is done that is simply not enough for them or if it isn’t done in THEIR time frame, another tantrum. They have NO clear message and in fact are often OFF any message at all. The thing is, I agree with them on HCPS being lazy about parent and student care. But I wouldn’t dare jump into the frey because they aren’t focused and too busy crying for blood. And sometimes, frankly, I don’t see it as a tnatrum but rather bullying.
The DTherapy program IS an excellent program. I’ve personally seen all 3 shows, not like those that haven’t. Extreme? Sometimes. Pointless? Hardly, but rather TO the point. Confrontational? ABSOLUTELY, as it should be. Meant to be in and of itself a form of psycho “therapy?” Nope – and it never ever not once proclaimed to be other than the word in the title! It brings to light the things that kids are saying and doing in school. Each year is almost a replica of the past year, so it hasn’t really changed.
What’s funny is there is a ton of students, and over 15,000 HDG residents and yet we have a very small herd of people stomping their feet and throwing temper tantrums (sorry if that is an insult but that is how I personally see). To expect that their tantrums won’t be counteracted REAL soon by the voice of reason is a wrong assumption – because there IS a truth in the middle of their extremism and HCPS’s PERCEIVED lack of care on the matter.
Alan: You are right that this matter should have been addressed differently from the beginning of inquiry … the response of varying members of the faculty and students to the content was the catalyst for that inquiry and the ensuing behaviors of the employees of HCPS are what has dragged the matter out for so long. At every opportunity, full utilization of “thirty days to respond” has been practiced by HCPS. It is to be inferred from this particular practice that the BoE and HCPS are hoping to drag it out long enough for the complaint to “just go away.” Happily for all of the teachers and working parents who agree that this is a matter to be properly investigated and correction of violations pursued, it appears that the complaint will be maintained until the matter is brought into compliance with existing HCPS Policies and Procedures, along with the additional applicable components of state and Federal laws. How that is to be accomplished should be left up to the BoE to decide. Not the Superintendent nor the Executive Director of Secondary Education (Tomback and Volrath). They have already failed to properly respond to the matter. It is time for Board Members to discuss and decide what to do with Dramatherapy. Hopefully, they aren’t making this about upcoming elections but have attempted to stand back and let the Superintendent “do his job”. Sadly, he has not. I appreciate that the delegates and Sen. Jacobs have been looking into this because I have always assumed that elected officials, especially at “local”levels are representatives of their constituency and, as such, serve as “our voice” in situations like this, so I am gratified to learn that they have at least taken the time to hear their constituents and respond in a timely manner by requesting information. I perceive their intent was to serve as arbitrators in the matter but their intial inquiry was also met with a rather hostile response…in a sort of passive/aggressive manner. Bottom line is: HCPS has brought this on themselves through various poor management decisions. It is hoped that the BoE will step in and become decisively responsive to the matter at hand before much longer.
P.Lea – I would drag my feet too if someone were to start screaming in my face. But they haven’t dragged their feet. Rachel Tate and her group aren’t the only concern at HCPS and the world doesn’t revolve around her or her issues.
Oh, and P Lea – people aren’t going to change their opinions on this as long as her group keeps trying to strong arm everyone to believe their way. A lot of people have sided with portions of what the mini-group has to say: Yes, the school should send out permission slips. Yes, HCPS could possibly move a little faster and be a lot more sensitive. But things DO take time and there other concerns at HCPS and there ARE rules regarding students rights. If someone is going to protest, don’t scream one thing then expect another. If the protestor doesn’t like their rights violated, then should RESPECT the rights of others. So far, I haven’t seen ANY respect coming from the mini-group who claim they speak for all parents.
Tom,
I have personal knowledge of having asked seemingly simple questions and run into the above mentioned foot dragging. I’ve also seen school staff give the cold shoulder to very involved parents because they “crossed the line” and asked more than once. Answering even upset parents is part of the job. I’m a huge supporter of the school system but this is a culture that is counter-productive and undermines the respect due on both sides.
Tom Barnes –
Drama Therapy is flawed and poorly managed program that has likely violated school district policy and possibly the law.
It is the duty of HCPS to sufficiently answer the concerns parents, citizens, taxpayers and officials and to make the requisite changes in order to comply with HCPS’ own policies and the law.
I recommend you get off your high horse before you fall off.
Joe
Alan – What you may not know is the first request was not met with resistance. They were told that they could not get to the video because the college was closed for th holidays. I personally know one of the people responsible for the tape and this was in fact the case. This is just one example of their tantrum being uncalled for. I agree with what you have said: Answering the parents is their job. And from what I understand Ms. Waling didn’t respond right away. Error on her part? Absolutely. Do I think it was deliberate? Absolutely not. Now, let’s look at the demand on HCPS. Do you think they were fully aware of anything when the footstomping started? Nope. They weren’t. But an angry fist was being shaken in their faces. Well, gosh – again this isn’t the only concern at HCPS, is it? So, even a “we’ll look into it” wasn’t received opnely – instead, more angry fists. It’s ok if that is what they want to do. But that doesn’t get you anywhere and it’s your own reputation on the line when you behave inappropriately (which, in my mind, is exactly what is going on).
There is a time line of events that the mini-group so far has refused to answer to – and they never will. They want it totally seem like they were the ones that were “done wrong.” At this point, I don’t believe for one minute it is about the kids or DTherapy. They’ve posted too much venom and then a demand for money (on another Dagger article). So, it is hard to convince us reasonable people that they have any set objective at this point but to bully and rant.
Oh Joey Joey Joey. Veiled threat, little man? You are so laughable.
Agreed.
Alan agreed with who?
Agreed with Tom. Even though I have really strong opinions about HCPS’ culture issues and the need to “friendly up”, the protestors seem out for blood.
I DO think that this is being addressed, and I DO think that the boiling point that issues like this get to is in large part the end product of HCPS administration’s general tone of condescension.
Tom Barnes –
Let me be abundantly clear I’ve made no threat veiled or otherwise. Your falling off your high horse will result from your inability to carry the weight of your weak and condescending argument.
Joe
that I can agree with to but as Tom said the and I said before the original group will not be happy with any result short of a head on a platter!
Tom Barnes, I’m curious – how do you know so much about all the aspects of what really happened?
Phil Dirt – because I was dragged into it by a city council member who asked me my opinion and then sent that email reply to Rachel, who in turn began corresponding with me directly (which, let me be VERY clear, I have nothing personal against Rachel, I just thing she is handling this completely wrong, otherwise she seems to be a good and upstanding person). My son and I also spoke at the BoE meeting. Until today, I’ve basically stayed in the background and just clucked my tongue at BOTH sides of this issue, but there is a time to say what is right and what is wrong, Phil. Do I think the parents are bad people? Nope. Do I think they are going about this wrong and making EXTREMELY bad choices? OH, ABSOLUTELY. Do I think they are pointing out others flaws and not seeing fingers pointing back at them? ABSOLUTELY. Do I think they are caught up in the moment? Oh, you bet!!! DO I think HCPS is full of goobers and there are things wrong with our schools and the way things are handled like this complaint? Oh God yes. But I also see that asking for blood and (let me see if I can get this right) ‘remuneration’ are NOT the way to go. It’s counter productive and proves the point that they will not settle for anything – no matter what. The bad thing for their cause are the posters on Dagger who keep making this a hate and smear campaign. Even though it’s NOT RT, it does make her look bad – you are known by the company you keep, and what she should be doing is telling them to keep their mouths shut.
Cdev and Alan: When I was first approached by a city council member about MY position on this entire thing and then by Rachel herself, I was very clear about what I know DTherapy to be about and it’s purpose, as well as where I felt that HCPS could have been more receptive. As a matter of fact, I have stated over and over again directly to Rachel Tate that I would stand in her corner about the way HCPS drags it’s feet on things (because it isn’t just this issue – it’s a LOT of other things too) but that I will NOT condemn the DTherapy program. There is DEFINITELY an HCPS issue here – and God knows the mess that my family has gone through with Volrath himself – so there is an issue there, too, I’m sure. BUT BUT BUT – I will not go on a blood hunt, or try to ruin someones job or life because I feel offended by a program or the dragging feet. One can be persistent without being vengeful and hateful and bully-ish. There are ways of doing things that are appropriate and there are ways of doing things that just make one look like a tyrant and I can’t and won’t be a party to that (Of course, I will defend their right to act like baffoons all day long – they are entitled – this IS America afterall and we have that freedom).
Tom Barnes –
Thank you for clarifying you possess no special expertise and knowledge with regard to Drama Therapy. You simply have an opinion with an unpersuasive and condescending argument.
Joe
Joey boy – I’ve clarified nothing except that you are an inept idiot. I feel sorry for Rachel if she has you on ‘her side’ of this. You’re a bad seed, Joey, and she needs to kick you to the curb if she wants to be taken serious in the least.
Tom –
I have sufficiently fended off your ad hominem attacks and countered your specious arguments.
Joe
Joseph Carouso,
What special expertise do YOU pasess in regard to the production?
Tom has at least made it clear in his postings that he DOES indeed have a background in producing and presenting plays/drama with young people. He has also demonstrated a knowledge of the copyright laws surrounding the release of such materials. He also appears to be an active member of the HdG community.
Your posts only make you appear to be a pompous, arrogant jerk whose only objective is to stir up arguments, make people angry, and TRY to make yourself sound more intelligent than you are. It is more and more clear that YOU simply have an opinion as well and your lacking to see that others might have a differing point of view just makes your argument that much MORE condescending and unpersuasive.
John –
You state – “Tom has at least made it clear in his postings that he DOES indeed have a background in producing and presenting plays/drama with young people”.
Unfortunately your statement regarding Tom Barnes’ expertise has nothing to do with curricula/program content, HCPS policies, the law, parental rights and the duty of HCPS to address Drama Therapy matter sufficiently.
Joe
Actually, John, I have run a DTherapy program where the actors wrote their own plays in groups. The focus was on peer pressure and bullying only. The parents and the actors had a positive experience and yes we did discuss the plays and the options to the how to handle said bullying and peer pressure. Joey is just a piss-poor mouthpiece for ‘the cause’ and is just discrediting the group of parents that may be truly concerned.
And … Joe hasn’t presented his own credentials in interpreting HCPS policy, His background in Educational Laws — or his educational experience in curriculum development.
He is however quick to point other’s lack of expertise without demonstrating that he has ANY knowledge beyond his own self-inflated ego.
John –
Is there an expert in our midst here on The Dagger that is an accepted expert?
Joe
You seem to be quick to denounce Tom as being unfit to comment, but spout off your own opinion without giving anyone a reason to think your opinion is better than his.
Tom has demonstrated that he at least has SOME experience in this field, and you immediately dismiss his views — and continue to post your own ramblings without an iota of information as to why your views are so much better.
Joe, your opinions are just that. YOUR opinions — you have yet to really give a reason as to why the HCPS resolutions to the DT issues are insufficient — other than the fact that YOU think that they should do more — or acted more quickly. HCPS has admitted that things need to be reviewed and that there have been some mistakes made. You are just continuing to stir people up — Which is all you ever really do in your postings.
John –
I did not as you’ve said “denounce Tom as being unfit to comment”.
I did say to Tom Barnes – “I have sufficiently fended off your ad hominem attacks and countered your specious arguments.”
Joe
Joe,
You said:
“Tom Barnes –
Thank you for clarifying you possess no special expertise and knowledge with regard to Drama Therapy. You simply have an opinion with an unpersuasive and condescending argument.”
That sounds verymuch like an insinuation that he is unqualified to have an opinion on the matter — or at least like you believe his comments should be disregarded.
I do NOT believe that you have “sufficiently countered” ANY arguments — except to add your own comments that are condescending to the viewpoints of other.
reaad 14.1 and tell us how to interpret it.
now that the Tate’s have generated enough free press for themselves; the delegation has pounded their chests that they are involved and the school has taken a lesson on how to properly and timely respond to parents; can we just let DT have a send-off; It’ll never be the thought producing production of the past and I’m sure that there are more presing items to report on. Best wishes to the cast and crew; both current and former of a great program.
She has done nothing more then go on a witchhunt….Free press can be good and bad…
Per the recent Aegis and Record articles, congratulations to the parents who stood up for their Parental Rights. Drama Therapy is no more at HHS!
Your voices were heard, very much appreciated and hopefully will give other parents the confidence to take a stand when it’s clear their rights are being violated.
Well Done!