From the office of Del. B. Dan Riley:
I am introducing HB 669, a hotel tax for Harford County. We are the only county in Maryland without this vital tax stream. Each year the county loses tax revenues not paid for by Harford Countians but usually paid for by those living outside of Harford County.
The following chart shows the amount of tax dollars we lose each year:
3% 5%
60% occupancy rate $1,380,000.00 $2,300,000.00
70% occupancy rate $1,600,000.00 $2,600,000.00
80% occupancy rate $1,900,000.00 $3,100,000.00 ($ figures rounded off)
At present, we have over 2,750 hotel/motel rooms available in Harford County. In the next two years, over 300 additional rooms will come on board. With easy access to I95, Aberdeen Proving Ground and BRAC, Ripkin Stadium and other tourist attractions, Harford County is a hotel magnet.
Loss revenues due to the lack of a hotel tax, can be used to address:
– Furloughs and layoffs
– Promote our tourism industry which will create much needed jobs
– Pay for Aberdeen’s financial responsibilities concerning Ripken Stadium
– Senior Citizen programs
The hotel tax will not affect the per diem rate. The per diem rate is actually based on the Average Daily Rate (ADR) of a specific set of hotels. The federal per diem is critical to Harford County’s hospitality industry since approximately 40% of our lodging business is government related travel. In Harford County our ADR is approximately $77.00. Our per diem rate is $83.00. Many of our hotels complain about the low per diem rate which is low compared to other jurisdictions. This is merely a reflection of our hotel industry.
At this time, we have many new properties that can charge up to $150.00 per night. An $83.00 per diem rate is low for these new properties who are bearing the burden of a low ADR driven down by the low end properties that charge $60.00 – $70.00 per night. We have several properties that offer incentives and meal credits that also drive down the ADR.
A lodging tax is passed on to the traveler, and aside from costs administering the tax, it is mostly absorbed by the traveler.
Please contact your State Delegates and State Senators to support this bill. The last time I put in a similar bill, it was killed in the Senate by an unfriendly amendment.
The hearing for HB 664 – Harford County – Authority to Impose a Hotel Rental Tax is scheduled on February 18, 2010 at 1:00pm in Ways and Means.
Thank you for your attention to this matter.
Sincerely,
B. Daniel Riley
State Delegate, District 34A
Sir,
The hotel tax is not needed or wanted by the Harford county taxpayers. It is a new source of revenue, true, but the facts you stated, of programs that the tax would benefit are not quite as accurate as you state. IE. the furlough and layoffs can’t be addressed by a what if tax any more than the poor planning and additions to depts. that created the need to layoff or furlough employees. Budget cuts to the various depts. can be dealt with by a line by line perusal of the dept. budget, just like in businesses. When the $ is not there, the cuts come from within the business.
Your second statement about the tourism industry, how can a tax that directly impacts the tourists we hope to acquire, help? I am sure there is logic there, but if I only have x amount of funds for vacation, or business, something has to give, either the length of time spent somewhere, or the amount of ‘extra’ cash available to tip the waitress or even to eat out. Some of our hotels in this county are used to house folks waiting for their new homes to be finished. Those folks, transfers, military, or even students, pay for the hotel and use it as a stop over till their new place is ready. Does this tax, or added cost limit their options, I think it does. The loss of jobs that led to some folks losing their homes is not going to help our tax base, either.
Your reference to Aberdeen and Ripken Stadium, Sir, the town of Aberdeen has hired business managers, lawyers, and many more folks, much smarter than I and if they can’t come up with a way to re-negotiate the contract with the Ripkens, shame on them, and the city of Aberdeen will have to live within their means. The folks that made the deal on both sides claim to love Aberdeen and it’s people, does the debt that the stadium is causing to the town indicate any affection for either? How will the tax decrease the stadium’s maintenance costs? Mortgage costs? Management fees? Your statement indicates you know how that will happen, but doesn’t a direct law have to be passed to target the funds to the stadium? If that’s true, none of the other suggestions you present can be funded anyway.
As far as our seniors, what program will you fund? Where is the bill that sends the hotel tax to be used by seniors only, for seniors only and for what? Our seniors are important, but the new tax must not be passed for it may be another reason that many of our seniors don’t get company, far away family, from the out of town relatives due to costs associated with hotels and motels.
Please, reconsider this bill and the effects that it could generate.
Thank you.
Housebound Taxpayer: Crawl out from under your rock (or expose your affiliation with the hotel industry) and start making sense (cents)! The “Hotel Tax” (for the VAST MAJORITY of time) is purely a pass through revenue stream. A stream that every other county in Maryland (and beyond) has been enabled to implement. Believe me, the City of Aberdeen isn’t the only entity that pines for this legislation to pass. Harford County is also on board this time around. Sometimes it’s good to be different, but in this case, it’s foolish! It’s past time to get this legislation passed and put the revenue stream generation potential of Harford County on a level playing field with EVERY OTHER COUNTY in Maryland. The taxpaying citizens of Harford County not only need the relief that this tax has the potential to provide, but we truly deserve it!
Ma’am,
If you think that the money generated from the hotel tax will go to Harford county, then show how it will be used and where it says that it will stay in Harford county. The money the tax will generate is not targeted to any one spot, so it will not be allotted to any one area.
My point is that the city of Aberdeen screwed up the contract for the stadium, so they should fix it. There are legal ways to compromise within the contract to alleviate some of the financial burdens the stadium is causing.
The hotel tax is not good, period. It is not good for the county. I am not affiliated with any hotel, but I am learning about the machinations of our gov’t and how money is used/abused- read-confiscated by the current gov’t and how as a taxpayer, I should be speaking up about the use of my/our money.
Although I disagree with your argument, I do admire your linguistic skills. Make sure you thank a teacher!
Well….we’ll have to agree to disagree, but thanks for the compliment. By the way….I attend Harford County public schools in Aberdeen. I thank them for the opportunity, as well as my parents for their “focusing” abilities.
ok so
1) Aberdeen made a huge mistake in the deal with Ripken but to place all the blame on the is wrong. If Cal actually gave a crap about his “hometown” he would not have entered into a contract he knew would screw the town. Also, he would have been open to negotiations which he is not so why dont me throw a little blame his way too.
2)The hotel tax will not make a huge rate difference. People will still stay in the hotels and probably won’t even notice a change in price.
3)Every other county in Maryland uses it to avoid layoffs,furloughs,etc. This is a common practice and for Harford County to NOT have this tax means we are wayy behind the ball.
It seems to me that everyplace else uses a hotel tax, so people who travel come to expect it. What better way to raise revenue than taxing people who don’t live here?
The very definition of conservative is pretty much ‘way behind the ball’. Imagine how much our county could have achieved if our politicians were forward thinking enough to create parks along our many miles of bay frontage, enduring partnerships between APG / Schools / Businesses, and a tourism industry highlighting our connections with the Chesapeake and Susquehanna River. Our county is in such a unique position to offer so much to so many, but instead we have Republican leadership that uses BS terms like ‘tax relief’ and Democratic leadership that is more concerned with gun legislation, sending their kids to elite schools, or defining themselves as ‘fiscally conservative’ and cutting ‘impact fees’. Even the Democrats here act like Republicans (you know, the party that is incapable of independent thought, just follow the leader and say ‘tax cut, tax cut, tax cut… the Republican answer to everything). This county is seriously broken, is in SERIOUS need of some progressive leadership that can see beyond their own narrow perspectives.
ProudDemocrat –
You may want to change your moniker to ProudLiberalProgressiveSocialistDemocrat.
You hold the producers in the economy in contempt and hold government apparatchiks in admiration. The producers, the capitalists, are the ones who create wealth, jobs and commerce and the government apparatchiks suck the lifeblood out of the economy.
You really need to pay more attention to the teachings of people like F.A. Hayek http://tiny.cc/aTKbQ
Joe
Sandi, Cal’s legal team was superior in every way to the towns legal team in working on the deal for the stadium. The city wanted it so bad that they struck a bad deal, and you are correct Cal does not care as long as he is making money. The city will never call him out on this issue.
You are so wrong on the issue that people staying here will not notice the tax. We have people now coming down for BRAC that are staying months at a time in hotels. A person or company staying three months in a hotel will pay an additional $373 dollars in taxes. i do not believe they should have to pay that in order to help Cal make more money.
Third point is also wrong, most countys in MD that have an occupancy tax has that money earmarked expressly for tourism.
Not from here, why should people outside our county pay for waste in our local governments budgets. i am sure they are paying taxes in their home towns for the same bloated government spending.
proud democrat what can i say, you are so wrong on so many issues it is hard to respond to your rants. maybe after your star democrat Obama loses in the next election he can run for county office and fix Harford County up for you, or maybe more locally after O’Malley goes down the tube he can come up here and spread some of that Democratic magic that makes the country such a better place. LOL
I hear ya… I am wrong on so many issues… yet you offer only one response! Tax cut, tax cut, tax cut! There is too much Govt. waste! Tax cut, tax cut, tax cut! Like I said… the Republican answer to everything: tax cut, tax cut, tax cut!!! I cannot begin to see how you can call me wrong on any issue… this county has been run by your Republican do nothing partiers for so long (even the few Democrats we have had acted like Republicans), thus you have NO evidence that can be used to demonstrate that I am wrong!
And Interested Bystander, when you travel to other jurisdictions, you will pay their hotel taxes. Our taxes do pay for some necessary things; it’s not all wasteful spending, but far be it from me to judge every penny spent by the government.
PD.. not sure i ever mentioned any tax cuts in my posts. The tax on the table is a new one and i strongly feel that enabling a tax just so the city can crawl out from under a bad deal is not justification for a new tax. Call me stupid for thinking that way but it is how i feel.
Next item is, you do know that the Democrats are in charge now in the White House and Congress? Plus the last Republican in office fiscally might has well have been Demicratic since he did not meet any spending bill that he did not embrace. To see the evidence that your type of Democratic leadership is wrong you merely have to look accross the ocean to the European Union, high taxes, high unemployment, low producitivity, enormous social service costs. Move accross the pond and you will be happy PD.
Not from here, yes i pay their occupancy tax and find it distasteful. i have never questioned that government provides very usefull services, however your last line alarms me…”but far be it from me to judge every penny spent by the government.” Of course it is up to every citizen to make sure that their elected officials are spending “OUR MONEY” wisely. Remember it is our money that they take via taxes and fees that they are spending. Do you not in this trying time watch what you and your family are spending? Government should be acting the same way.
You are “alarmed” Interested Bystander that I don’t look at every penny the government (local, state, or federal) spends? I would challenge you to find ONE person in America who can do that.
Dan Riley and all other public office holders should be shouting from the roof top that Harford County is the only county in Maryland that does not add extra fees to your room stay. That would be a huge boost for tourism travel along with corporate and government travel. His comment about incentives diluting per diem is incorrect and the comment that the hotel industry complains about the low per diem “is merely a statment of our hotel industry” speaks volumes to his intelligence. Why wouldnt the industry complain when 8 miles down the road White Marsh gets over $100 per diem?
The main party that wants a hotel tax is Aberdeen city, and that is only to cover up a huge mistake that past office holders made in the Ripken Stadium deal. Charge a parking fee at the stadium, hold more events during the off season, maybe the city should have sold the land to developers at normal rates instead of the low ball deals that were negotiated. All of theses things would help cover the costs, but nope they are all off the table. Wonder how much money the Marriott properties are making since basically the city gave them the land to build on for free? Wonder how much money Cal is making on his little league tournaments and camps? Wonder how much money the stadium deal is saving on the low ball negotiated water deal? Look at these items and you will find loads of money that the city is not getting.
This is such a foolish statement. Next to nobody is going to stay in Harford County hotels simply because we do not have an extra tax above sales tax. Who in the right mind would save $5 only to have to drive to Baltimore and spend twice that much in parking, gas, and tolls? So many posters on here seem to think that taxes factor into so many personal decisions. MOST TRAVELERS HAVE NO IDEA THAT WE DO NOT HAVE A HOTEL TAX, NOR DO THEY KNOW THAT OTHER PLACES DO!!! They are mostly out-of-state travelers! WAKE UP!!!!!!!
Proud Democrat did you even read my post? The fact of the matter is that Harford County hotels get many bus and social groups that stay in our county due to the higher rates and taxes in Baltimore County and City. So many democrats on here think that taxes should never factor into any decision and all taxes are good because they fund large government. Plus PD do you really believe that out-of-state travelers are stupid? Trust me i am wide awake when ever any Democrat screams about raising taxes, nothing ever good comes from it.
ps why not address any of my commnets about other solutions to the Ripken Stadium mess? Is taxes the only solution?
During times of economic hardship it is the DUTY of government to create a balanced budget, but this should not be done by inflationary acts such as new taxes.
It is time the state, county and town governents realized that they have to bite the bullet and start reducing costs.
If this doesn’t happen very quickly the the USA is going to join the third world, with rampant inflation and an even greater divsion between the wealthy and the average.
I am getting so sick of these types of statements. Look outside and tell me, which police officer do you want removed from duty? Which classroom teacher should be let go? Who do you want removed from the road crews? Perhaps we should cut our salt budget? Oh yeah.
Maybe we should not buy the new rescue equipment that will save countless lives? How about not upgrading any infrastructure prior to BRAC… I agree that we should save money and simply deal with the horrid congestion that we will see soon enough. Great idea (don’t bother looking up how much revenue is lost by having traffic congestion). Which bridge are we not going to inspect this year that should be, or upgrade?
What county park do you want closed? Which Park and Rec program should be dropped? Who should we let die because we do not have enough first responders on the job?
ProudDemocrat –
You are a fear monger. You want us to accept the status quo of government as being efficient, which is laughable.
Under your flawed logic we would be better off giving more funds to municipal, county, state and federal governments so we get even better results.
I get it your a fan of government you can’t get enough of it.
Joe
OK, let’s look at a couple of things:
Which Police Officer? How many times have you seen an incident involving one vehicle being stopped and six or seven police vehicles in attendance? Hmm… Each vehicle has a driver, and each vehicle consumes excessive gas racing to this incident. We have way more police than we need, and have overlapping jurisdictions and even squabbles between jurisdictions. We could easily dump the Transport Police, they are a revenue focused agency, as opposed to a “keep the peace” agency.
Which classroom teacher should we let go? The one that isn’t performing. While you are at it you can dump most of the educational admin too, give education back to the teachers.
Rescue Equipment? If you can’t afford it you shouldn’t be buying it. The rescue equipment market is alive, well and obscenely obese because fire and rescue departments have set standards that are way too high. When you dump half a million into a fire truck because the old one has 25,000 miles on it, or buy 20 re-breathers for a fire department with 15 men you are wasting money.
When you have the Harford County Health Department chasing round restaurants issuing citations against restaurants for what are “dreamed up” infractions, you are wasting money.
I’m not even going to touch the BRAC issue; you wanted it – you got it. During the time I have lived in Harford I have seen a beautiful rural setting turned into an urban sprawl, all because of the great god Money.
Government is a business, and, like any other business that suffers a downturn in revenue, something has to go. I know my business can’t start charging it’s clients spurious charges just because the piggy bank is empty.
There is a very faulty argument that you just don’t see. Take the City of Havre de Grace. When Bulle Rock development was first proposed the City was in a panic to annex the land. The primary argument was that this would broaden the tax base allowing for a reduction in taxes. Strange – I have never seen a reduction in taxes; instead, I have seen a beautiful city hall built using materials that are far superior to most homes, I have seen the community building erected, but have never used it, but I have to pay for this.
This is the problem with government by nature! “If we just had another hundred thousand dollars, million dollars, or billion dollars, we would be able to fix all the problems!”
Or “a temporary tax increase”. It’s all just a big sham. The biggest problem with it is the dishonesty about the tax increases. Have you ever seen a politician stand up and say “Here’s the deal, we are hurting, an we don’t want to close the senior center, so we are going to have to raise taxes this year. I promise I will cut the fat every where I can so we can make it through this together.”
I haven’t. That’s the problem.
If Harford County wants this tax, and the money athered by it, why doesn’t the count govt create the law? If it’s being dine by the state, that gives them control of where it goes, right?
No… county budgetary rules such as this must be approved by the state legislature. The money is utilized by the county. Generally speaking if the delegation is in unanimous (or close to) support of a bill, the legislature will pass it (hence the deal with the school board election bill). Unless I am mistaken, the only money that the country directly legislates are fees collected directly by the county (e.g., the impact fee). Since taxes are collected by the state first, and distributed to the counties, it takes a state legislative decision to change said tax rules.
PD-the solution is not more taxes or “new revenue streams”, the truth lies in doing more with less. Any tax increase would just add to the glutony that govt exemplifies everyday.
Your doom and gloom scenario is incredulous and with no merit. It is the duty of local govts to provide basic safety, police, emergency and public works services. There is enough money being collected to provide for the basic needs of county administration.
The county needs to reduce expenditures in schools that are not needed, buying land so that it won’t be developed one day, reducing adminstrative staffing levels that are not reasonable for any business model that depends on providing efficient use of limited funds. The funds are limited because the tax payer cow is out of milk.
What part of there isn’t any more milk don’t you understand?
stop with the regurgitated lines. Name specific jobs, services and schools to close or eliminate! Remeber to do so in the bounds of the law!
cdev-you sound like a condescending prick. there are cuts that need to be made. Administrative staffing is too high. they need to streamline positions and layoff staff. how’s that for specifics. Enrollment has been going down for sometime at HCPS, how about redistricting schools so that school capacity can be spread amongst all schools. cut baby cut!!!
Which positions? Which staff?
Which schools would you combine and how would you sell it to the community as a whole? Look at the rucus that was created when some kids from Fallston got moved to Bel Air.
Law states that schools must be funded at the level they where funded at.
Yes the Thorton commission boondoggle, were the state of MD decided to impose a spending plan with no revenue source…that is Democrats at their best. Of course no one in office now has a set of balls to say that the state can not afford this plan so we just tack on a couple more billion dollars in off year deficits…
Say what you wish… MD schools have recently been selected as the TOP schools in our nation (I saw that on a post on Dagger tonight and researched it a bit… quite true!). This is due to the fact that our schools are funded! Reduce funds, our kids learn less. I am sure you could find waste in any system, but there really is not that much in the school system (at least not below the top management… their salaries and benefits are nuts… but that is such a small amount compared to the total operating budget of a school system). Now I know that JC and others will jump all over this, but there really is not that much waste in a school system, and thus budget cuts yes will negatively impact the education of our kids!
PD the Thorton spending is just starting and has had no impact yet on school performance. You need to look a little higher for what has helped MD schools and others accross the country…that would be the Bush plan of “No Child Left Behind” which finally started holding schools accountable for graduating students that could actually read and write
ThorNton has been around since 2003/2004 (adopted in the 2004 legislative session if memory serves); most certainly has not “just started”. Governor Ehrlich did not budget appropriately for the Thornton rules, and thus it was not fully funded until we had a Governor that actually followed the law. It is true that the past three years have been the closest we have had to full Thornton funding, and low and behold our school’s have been performing better and better each year…
Actually I am wrong… much of the commission work was done in 2000 and 2001, with passage of Thornton funding bills in 2002.
Good schools are nice, I agree. The Maintenance of Effort requirement, however, in an unfair burden on the Counties.
interested NCLB has hurt schools. They now teach only reading and math to satisfy the needs of stats that can be doctored. It is also a huge unfunded mandate and see the kids in Utah are doing fine without it.
Proud Democrat, you need to read that article more closely. Did you look at how they came up with the numbers and at everything they left out? It was based on facts like economic status, 2 parent households, etc. Not on the actual learning that the kids are doing. SAT and ACT scores in HCPS are dropping, and have been since NCLB and the block schedule went into affect. They can fudge all the numbers they want, and they do, but they haven’t figured out a way to fake higher SAT scores. I’m sure they are trying.
HCPS is wallowing under Republican leadership… while MD state schools are burgeoning under Democratic leadership. Our state delegation overall is unwilling to work with the Democratic majority in the state (and our County Council and County Executive are unwilling to make tough decisions to increase revenues for the county public systems), and as a result HCPS cannot attract and hold the best teachers, and our students lose out as a result.
Do not equate HCPS with Maryland schools as a whole. The counties that are willing to effectively fund the schools are off the charts, and are ALWAYS ranked among the top systems in the nation and world.
Oh Proud Democrat, come on. You do know that Democratic Del. Mary Dulaney James is the one who holds up the legislation that would give the public a say in how their schools are run. Most counties in MD have elected school boards. Del. James worked behind the scenes to stop the elected school board from coming to a vote, even though EVERY other HC deligate was in favor. She did it by trading her vote on the IT tax that was up at the time. When one Del. holds up the legislation that every other delegate and the majority of the citizens wants, I would have to say it is the democrat who is causing the problem.
And I don’t want my taxes raised! There is plenty of nonsense that can be cut out before they convince me they need more of my money.
Sandy how often do YOU stay in a hotel in Harford County? It is a use tax on non-residents.
Yes, ProudDem, we all know that the more money you spend, the better the results. Just look at the per-pupil spending in Baltimore City…
Typical liberal response – “Just take more money from the people and throw it at the problem.”
And you, Phil Dirt, offer the typical conservative retort: cut all government services so that we can cut marginal taxes (of course the most wealthy among us will have huge tax benefits on the back of the poor and middle class), the hell with whatever people lose their jobs and/or lose their services; and disregard the reduced overall quality of life as a result of your ill-advised policies.
Cdev, never. My response was to what Proud Democrat was saying.
No, PD, as usual you are wrong.
Where did I say that I want to cut all governmental services? You see things as all or nothing. I am much more reasonable and sensible than that.
Phil you offer the exception not the rule look at Montgomery County!
So, Cdev, then you agree that the solution is not to just throw more money at it? If it works sometimes and not others, than that really isn’t the solution, is it?
Thanks! Now tell it to your soulmate ProudDem.
cdev-the law needs to be changed!!!. No law is written in stone unless its a Constitutional Admendment.
two points until it is changed the law is the law and you have to mke the budget in the bounds of that law. Second Constitutional amendments are not in stone. i.e. prohibition.
The basic fact is that people like PD will support any and all taxes and will fight tooth and nail against any reduction in government spending or size. This battle is going on at the local, state, and national level and will determine the future prosperity of our country. I would guess that if PD lives in Aberdeen she/he is against growth and annexation a much more logical way to bring in extra tax revenue. Plus ask Dan Riley if he supported bringing the slots emporium to Harford County instead of Cecil, another large source of tax revenue and jobs.
What if….we added a hotel tax; but lowered your property taxes? Would that change any of your thinking?
Cdev are you not paying attention? Aberdeen needs extra funds, they are not going to give back money in another area just because they get the hotel tax.
Why not come up with some other solutions to the Ripken problem other than taxes? Cant that even be discussed?
It is more then just Aberdeen. That said I know little about Ripken stadium other then they lie to people and do not negotiate in good faith
Cdec Aberdeen city is the one pushing the occupancy tax, they are very clear on why they want it, to help pay for the running deficit in the Ripken Stadium fund. Not for tax relief, not for senior projects, not for tourism!
If I am correct, Correct me if I am wrong. Would the proceeds go to the county coffers? Would Aberdeen be charging a “piggyback” tax?
The tax collected by the Aberdeen hotels would go to Aberdeen general fund, hotels not in municapalties would go into the county general fund. Similar to the amusement tax.
You know maybe the county would take the citys request for an occupancy tax more seriously if they would have some other options in place to cover their bad Ripken deal than just raising taxes. But of course this is the same city that took a decade to get their water problem solved. As of this date i have not heard one idea other than the occupancy tax to solve the ongoing deficits that the city has to fund to cover stadium debt and maintenance. Plus we hear that much greater deficits are on the horizon when larger maintenance issues come due, will the occupancy tax fund those items also?
Good points all around Interested Bystander. Aberdeen has dug itself into a hole that doesn’t appear to be fillable.
There is a mindset that we need this money- it will solve all the problems, that is, until 5 years down the road when it isn’t enough any more.
There are structural issues that need to be addressed before adding more cash to the pot.
There are five parcels that make up the Ripken Stadium, all negotiated seperately and poorly. They were negotiated cash flow negative based on the concurrent development of a theater anchored high end retail center like the one at white marsh. The one thing the foolish fathers never thought about is that retail follows roof tops and we all know too well how Aberdeen feels about annexations. So the Ripken folks got theirs and the citizens of Aberdeen got what they deserved for electing star struck baseball fans who melted in Cal’s presence. Taxes aren’t the answer here and have no chance to unscrew this pooch.
“Unscrew this pooch” Wow….what an eloquent way to describe the situation that Aberdeen is stuck with.
It’s always great to hear from you Mr. Thong.
Mama Mia- unscrewing was mine but screwing the pooch was what we old aviators called an act that was irreverseable and usually terminal.
Sandy, Sandy, Sandy….I have two questions:
1.) Do you have children that attend H.C.P.S.? (Yes or No) If so, your opinion is more credible than if you send them to a private school. If no, well…..
2.) Since you are faulting Delegate James for “holding up legislation that every other delegate, and the majority of citizens wanted” regarding an elected school board, are you willing to be consistant and fault Senator Nancy Jacobs for holding up legislation that the majority of our representatives, as well as the majority of her constituants want? (I’m talking about the “Hotel Tax”)
Mama Mia,
Yes, I have children who attend HCPS. Unlike Del. James who sends hers to the Tome School. I have a sophomore at BAHS who was redistricted from Fallston, a senior at the Science and Math Academy at AHS, and an 18 year old who graduated from FHS but is now in her 2nd year at Towson University.
From those I talk to, I don’t believe Senator Jacobs is holding up legislation that most constituants want. A Hotel Tax will only cause people to stay in a different county where hotel rates are cheaper, losing money for Harford County in the long run. I know when I look for a hotel, I look for the best rates within a reasonible distance. Cecil county is pretty close to Ripken Stadium.
James held up the legislation, then voted for it, then has been talking trash about it.
Ok Sandy, since you have childen in the HCPS system, I think that your opinions are more credible. But….you are absolutely wrong about the hotel tax issue. Jacobs IS holding it up, AND it IS constituant friendly. The Hotel Tax is an additional (and much needed) revenue stream that would either:
1.) Prevent a tax increase in the future.
OR
2.) Possibly lower the current tax rate.
With the price of gas, traffic congestion, and additional time involved to drive further, it only makes sense (if you look at this issue without blinders) that folks will stay where it is the most convenient. Have you ever heard the saying: Location, Location, Location!
Besides, as it’s been said time and time again, the rest of the state (and beyond) has this tax. Are you trying to imply that our hotel can’t compete on a level playing field? I know they can!
Mama Mia, No, I disagree. Most people in Harford County are against tax increases. You do realize that you just wrote that by adding a new tax you would be preventing a tax increase. Does that really make sense to you?
Sandy she meant exactly what I said in post 7. Or I believe she did.
Let’s give an inefficient county government more taxes so that our taxes go down, are reduced or don’t increase?
Why don’t we tax through surcharges cell phones, taxis, rental cars, girl scout cookies, all bull roasts, crabs, rock fish, each oyster, lint, dandruff and pet shrews?
Sandy! You and I AGREE that most people in Harford County (or anywhere for that matter) are against tax increases. Therefore, everyone in Harford County should be FOR the Hotel Tax.
Once again (for those of you whe CHOOSE not to get it), this is a “pass through” revenue stream. The VAST majority of time, it does NOT affect the people of Harford County! When was the last time thay YOU stayed in a Harford County Hotel?
So….by having this additional and sustainable revenue stream, it makes sense that Harford County (or the City of Aberdeen)would NOT have to look elsewhere for needed revenue (i.e., an increase in an existing tax). Economics 101 my dear!
Mama Mia, Actually I call that self involved voting. I understand that most people vote selfishly, they only think of what is best for themselves. That is why so many groups of people vote a certain way. Unions generally vote democratic because they will get more for themselves that way. Seniors tend to vote democratic because the AARP tells them they will get more in entitlements that way.
I don’t vote that way. I try to vote my conscience and do the right thing no matter how it affects me personally. The better our society, the better for everyone, and the less entitlements others will “need”. We live in the greatest country in the world and it is a shame to see people being greedy instead of doing what is right.
Farm subsidies going to big corporations, welfare for generations of families who could very well go to work, all voting selfishly to gain as much for themselves as possible. Bad for our society and weakens our country. Take the high road. Higher taxes aren’t good for anyone.
I am not sure about your statement “that the majority of our representatives, as well as the majority of her constituants want? (I’m talking about the “Hotel Tax”)” i would bet most people in Aberdeen or the County for that matter would not support helping a millionaire fund a very profitable operation by taxing people coming into the county.
One interesting thing. My sister, who is out of county wanted to get married there. She went to Ripken stadium 1.5 years ahead of time and they quoted her a price, not in writing and then told here she could not sign a contract until 1 year before the date. At tht time they jacked the price 4 grand, out of her budget. So they lost out. When she shared her experience with several other friends who all thought about doing the same thing. They changed their mind. Looks like if they had their act together they might have more buisness.
Pardon me if I am nervous about send more money to the ‘wise men & women’ in Annapolis, especially if it goes into the general fund.
BTW, Thornton has never been lived up to to fully funded. The point of the law was to give the schools what they need, not what they could have. Not to mention, isn’t there something on the MD Constitution about all spending bills have to have a source of funding included in the law? Let’s see…
First Citizen….The proposed Hotel Tax revenue would NOT be sent to Annapolis, it would be sent directly to Harford County, and it COULD be shared by the municipalities. Maybe you should read the legislation.
Excuse me Mamma Mia, but if it is a state approved tax, then they do the collecting and the distribution. If it goes into the General Fund, then distributed to the county it can be diverted as the General Assembly sees fit. Why don’t you learn how the state government works? Since you have read the legislation, what path does it take from collection to the county?
Actually First citizen you are dead wrong. The legislation in question is for enabling legislation. It allows Harford County to levy a hotel tax. The tax would go to the county. The county could then enable the municipalities to levy a tax that would go directly into their general revenues.
Dave, you are mostly correct. The enabling legislation would allow Harford County to impose the tax. But if I’m correct, legislation was passed LAST YEAR that would allow a municipality to impose their own tax, but ONLY if the Harford County didn’t take advantage of the enabling legislation. And IF Harford County DOES take advantage of the enabling legislation, it would be required to share a percentage of the revenue with the municipalities. This percentage would be based upon the revenue recieved from the hotels within the municipality. To compare….Bel Air has no hotels or motels, therefore they would’t receive a share, but Aberdeen (with MANY hotels and motels) would receive a decent take. One can see why Bel Air doesn’t care about this legislation, but Aberdeen cares deeply. I hope this clarifies the potential for this needed legislation.
Responding to Sandy’s post somewhere in the 9.1.2 area:
YOU are the selfish idiot. Most informed citizens of Harford County / Aberdeen are in favor of the “Hotel Tax” for the obvious and aforementioned reasons. And, the “good Senator Jacobs” should be doing what her constiuancy wants (and is best for them!)
Two reasons that someone could be against the “Hotel Tax”:
1.) They are misinformed. (sometimes intentionally)
2.) They are affiliated with the hotel industry. (and still misinformed)
Finally, I want to thank the good Delegate Dan Riley for his efforts to date regarding this very important legislation. He understands the potential benfits AND lack of ramifications when this issue is finally put to bed (passed!)
Mama Mia, Calling someone an idiot is just useless, especially someone you don’t know. Why don’t you tell me why you think I am an idiot? That is just nasty and uninformed. Are you basing my intelligence on whether I agree with you on one issue?
I am an anti tax, small government, capitalist. That doesn’t mean I just don’t think I shouldn’t pay nearly as much as we all already pay in taxes, it means that I don’t think ANYONE should pay this much in taxes.
I assume you remember when the state was going to tax all IT services? Because all computer consulting businesses started moving to Delaware they quickly recalled that tax.
Taxes are not good for revenue, Economics 101.
Am I the only one who remembers that the family of hoteliers most opposed to the hotel tax has a sordid past in both Maryland politics and crime? Interesting that Sen. Nancy Jacobs would so closely align herself with this bunch!
For you youngsters, how do you think the cluster of Edgewood hotels just happened to be built on the edge of I-95? Patriarch W. Dale Hess was one of Marvin Mandel’s cronies, duly convicted of racketeering along with the former governor.
Once again, once must wonder what kind of tie binds Sen. Nancy Jacobs to the Hess’.
Where else would you build a cluster of hotels except right off a major interstate? It wouldn’t make much sense to have built them on Brookside Dr or down Willougby Beach Rd…
You would if you had inside knowledge that a major intersection was being planned for the area. The acquisition of the land predated the interstate.
Good ole Dale Hess made sure to get ALL of the Edgewood I-95 exchange, and the Perryville I-95 exchange before the highway plans were even common knowledge. How did Dale know about the coming highway? He was the Dem. leader of the Md. House of Delegates! Ummm….sound a little shady?
The Hess’ still own the hotels at both those exchanges. These folks have a history of getting their way no matter what/who stands in their way. It is time for the Hess Family & Nancy Jacobs reign to end.
Sir,
What I would like to know is why are you bringing up a business transaction that happened aproximately 40 years ago? What about the other companies that have properties at the intersections of Edgewood, Riverside,and Aberdeen. Now when you talk about these folks having a history of getting their way no matter what or who stands in their way you are talking about me and I take great offense to that statement. I work hard everday, I employ hundreds of people and I work to make sure that they can continue to be employed and take care of their families. If you have a problem with my father or myself then why don’t you contact me directly so that we can discuss your concerns. I would also appreciate it if you would leave my father out of this social forum as he is retired and not involved in the business’s any longer.
You could’ve bought any of that property if you’d have taken the time to review the long term plans for the area and then had the balls to take a chance on the investment. Don’t cry now because someone was willing to see something you didn’t.
So Mr. Patrick L. Hess please enlighten us all as to why you have been against a hotel tax and why you have shouldered up to Nancy and made sure that there was no hotel tax. Why would Mr. Hess be against an out of state visitor paying an extra 2 or 5 dollars a night to stay in a hotel? I wonder, could it be that the extra 2 or 5 dollars a night would be better off in a Hess pocket? There are a lot more hoteliers in Harford County now than there were say, 30 maybe 40 years ago, but let’s not go back quite that far, let’s go back to the early to mid 90’s. How much MORE money did Mr. Hess et al make by not having a hotel tax but popping the room rates up as if there was a hotel tax?
That was right about the time that Pat Hess was throwing up a Denny’s every couple of months. There was a lot of money being made back then, so what if Joe The Traveler paid $50 for a room instead of $45 and that $5 went to Harford County………come to think of it, Joe The Traveler paid $50 for that room but it looks like the $5 went into company profits.
You socialists sure are quick to beat up on productive members of society. It’s shameful, really.
You guys are right. There was a time when the Hess’ had a stranglehold on hotel rooms in this county. That day is gone. Now when you look around, the Hess owned hotels are among the “lower end” hotels that held drive the government per diem down. When you have high end Hilton hotels that have high occupancy rates while charging $150+ that raise the per diem and Hess hotels undercutting the per diem you start to wonder if Hess properties aren’t part of the per diem problem.
Why bring up 40 year old PUBLIC history? Because it demonstrates a continuing pattern of arrogant business practices that many of us resented then and continue to resent now. You want this characterization to go away? Drop your longstanding opposition to the hotel tax and tell Nancy Jacobs to do the same.
Actions speak louder than words.
Rwinger you have moved up to the biggest dumb ass on this board. Why do you hate the Hess family so much? I would guess you are a far left nut who hates all people that make money. Your grasp of how hotels set their rates borders on grade school level math. The fact of the matter is that hotel rates in Harford County mostly are driven by the per diem rate paid by government employees and defense contractors.
How come you do not hate another rich person who is going to benefit by the occupancy tax more than anyone? That would be Cal, if you were to dumb to understand that all of Aberdeen city’s share of the tax is going to Ripken Stadium.
Maybe you can enlighten me as to why every time the hotel tax, a tax that is easily incorporated into the “per diem”, is brought up in Annapolis Hess and company, through Jacobs, shoot it down. I don’t “hate” the Hess family, but I’m quite familiar with many of the Hess business practices, past and present. I think it’s great that visionaries bought up all of the land that was available where future sites of the interstate interchanges would be, I’d have more respect if it was a risk investment but insider information paved that route.
As for Ripken Stadium……dumb move on the part of Wilson/Dacey and a hole that Aberdeen taxpayers keep pouring money in to with no net result. The stadium deal has buckled the camels back each year and is going to break the city in the next few years. If Aberdeen’s share of the hotel tax went to the stadium that would free up the soon to be half million that is going to the stadium through tax paying residents.
A hotel tax is used to support tourism. Tourism is supported through improved roads, a properly equipped police department, not state of the art DWP equipment, not just visit Harford County advertisements and brochures in the hotel lobby.
By the way, hotel rates and per diem rates are usually two different amounts. The average tourist may pay $75 a night but the Uncle Sam tab may be $50 a night, of course neither is close to the maximum rate which one can find posted in a hotel room (usually back of bathroom door). That’s the jack up rate, the rate that some poor fool pays when there are no rooms available (last one was Obamanation Day).
Are you saying the fools paid 8 yrs ago also on BUSHMADNESS
I support the tax…for the exact reason Dan says it’s a benefit. Hotel tax is paid by those outside the county. It’s a simple winner.
Somtimes the simple things are the best.
Go Dagger!
I also support, and am promoting, a Marina surcharge of 100 to 150 dollars annually for slip rentals to out of state residents using any state funded Maryland marinas, including Havre de Grace. What about that Dan? Why should Maryland tax payers pay the way for out of state boaters?
Considering we give millions in Md. tax dollar Grants to Marinas and waterways, its only fair the out of state users pay their fair share when keeping their boats docked in Maryland.
GOOOOOO DAGGERRRRRRRRR! !
Dan this surcharge would make a great addition to your bill. Maybe a smaller rate state wide and the City could charge a similar charge equaling the 100 to 150 annually.
Go Dagger !
My thoughts are not limited to Aberdeen in regards to this tax, nor are they to the Hess’s. The are to ME. I see the tax as a way to shake down those who suck the blood from our community. Those on per diem with private APG contractors importing workers should pay, those from Penn and other places within close driving distance who use our marinas without contributing their full share should also pay.
It’s a simple matter of economics and looking out for your own interest.
Go Dagger !
Some folks just don’t understand economics. Right now any tax hike will have a proportionally higher affect than during normal economic times. Businesses deal in profit margins which are often small. If you raise taxes on them then they have to pass along the cost or eat it. If they pass it along then they risk losing business. If they eat it then they have to cut something–service/staff/utilities somewhere else.
The argument that who cares it’s out of town folks and they won’t notice is even more ridiculous. People look at the total cost. In a down-turned economy the name of the game should be tax cutting, not hiking.
Del. Riley’s friend Governor O’Malley has already passed the biggest tax hike in Maryland history including 18% increase to corporate income taxes and 20% increase to the sales tax. More taxes are not the answer.
Jared who will not stay in Harford county that was going to becuse their hotel room cost $5 more?
Jarod, wake the “frig” up! Stay anywhere else, and your hotel room will have a local “hotel” tax applied to the bill. I agree with you that “the name of the game should be tax cutting”, but for OUR citizens. This revenue stream WILL facilitate the same! Simple answer for a simple sounding Subway patron!
Jared,
You are right. The new tax is not acceptable. The increase of taxes only hurts, and there has been no documentation of where the collected tax will be applied. It goes to the state into the abyss…
Mammamia,
Please, if you cannot express your ideas w/t being both derogatory and disrespectful, keep them to yourself. You have shown a command of the English language previously, why resort to such childish outbursts to re-statements of your positions? It only detracts from a logical and serious discussions of topics.
If the new taxes presented this month by MD congress are passed, the increase on busisnesses, before the customer walks into the shop/door/ will be close to 18%.(Manufacturing fees- farm stands, winerys, hay-feed mills,) That will cause several things to occur, businesses will close, people will lose their jobs, and costs to consumers will go up. Please, call and find out from the delegates and senators what they are doing and why. These new taxes will impact all parts of our lives- a hotel tax in Harford county is only the tip of the iceberg!
The bond that Exec. Craig is promoting for Beechtree Golf club is not a good idea either, in my opinion. If the builder cannot get funding, then wait until they can. The bond will have to repaid by someone…new owners? Property taxes? 14mil. is a lot of money to bet on and if the county loses, who will be responsible. Find out the details…if your tax goes up due to the bond, what are you willing to cut from your budget? If the tax goes up on farm stands, are you willing to not buy apples? Peppers? How about meat? Are you willing to not eat eggs or meat to save the money for electric bills or what about your cell phone? The connection is clear, if taxes rise, something has to be cut.
More later, gotta get back to work!
Toby Sanchez, I apologize for my “derogatory and disrespectful” expressions. Sometimes I do get carried away, but that is due to my passion for the truth. That being said, you are wrong in stating that the revenue generated from the proposed hotel tax would end up in the “state abyss”. The state aready receives tax revenue from hotels and motels. This proposed tax would remain LOCAL! Meaning 100% of the revenue generated would be shared by Harford County and the municipalities. THAT is what I’ve stated time and time again….and for reasons that I can’t explain, folks like you (and Jarod) keep getting it wrong….hence my “passionate” comments yesterday! Have a good evening Toby.
Here is a follow up to many of your comments and questions regarding the Hotel Tax:
* An overwhelming number of my constituents have expressed support for the Hotel Tax including Mayor Mike Bennett of Aberdeen, Mayor Wayne Dougherty of Havre de Grace and Commissioner Dave Carey of Bel Air – all support the hotel tax.
* ALL revenues collected from the hotel tax STAY in Harford County.
* I have amended my bill to allow 50% of the tax to go toward promoting tourism in Harford County and the rest to go into the general fund of Harford County. This bill is also enabling legislation, which means the Countyu Council will have to hold public hearings on the bill.
*Not one hotel owner, hotel CEO, or hotel spokesperson has spoken out against the bill. I did contact Hess Hotels to set up a meeting to discuss the bill stating that I would make myself available to them at almost anytime. I gave them my schedule. No one from Hess Hotels followed up.
There was only one opponent to the bill at the hearing and that was Frank Boston, III. Mr. Boston represents the Maryland Tourism Industry. The Maryland Tourism Industry has a budget of $6 million dollars for the whole state or about $250,000 for Harford County. Mr. Boston felt that all of the hotel tax should go to Tourism. My bill with the amendment would at the very minimum double the funding for Harford County’s Tourism industry. In reality, it will probably quadruple the funding to our tourism industry.
Richie C, I like your suggestion concerning out-of-state users of our marinas that accept state funding. I hope you’ll work with me to do research on this subject for possible legislation next year.
One last point, Governor O’Malley and I enjoy a beer or two together, we exchange Christmas cards and we are on a first name basis. We share the same faith, political party and ancestry. I do not share many of the governor’s taxing policies. I voted against the cigarette tax, the tech tax, and the 20% increase in the state sales tax.
To clarify or answer your concerns about this bill call my Annapolis office at 1(800)492-7122.
Somebody shoot that bastard…we’ve got enough taxes here in Harford County!
Which “bastard” would you have us shoot Michele? Do you have any idea how government economics work? In order to provide more money for public safety, education, libraries, social services, etc, etc you must have an income stream equal to or greater than the amount of expense. So far there isn’t much difference between government and your own checkbook. Now this is where it gets tricky. If yo want to spend more you have to go out and earn more; take another job, work overtime, etc. If government wants to spend more they als0 have to “earn” more. Unfortunately the only way for a government to earn anything is by confiscating your and my wealth through fees and taxes. They can’t work one extra minute to earn more. If you’re a regular here you must recognize that a vast majority of our population wants more services from their governments.
One of the areas that is expensive for all levels is public safety. In Aberdeen for example the police have at least one officer taking calls at one of the thirteen or more hotels and motels, every evening all evening long. these are calls for domestic violence, drug use and distribution, bawdy behavior, fights, etc etc. Guess what none of the people who cause those calls is an Aberdeen resident and for that matter not Harford County either. A hotel tax would help offset these costs and the tax would be paid by the resident, who doesn’t contribute anything toward our system. But no let’s not have another tax, let’s just jack up the rates on the old ones! Makes sense doesn’t it?