From Del. Wayne Norman’s office:
The Maryland House of Delegates Republican Caucus met Tuesday, September 23 and received a briefing from the State’s Department of Legislative Services on the current state of Maryland’s budget. The briefing presented sobering and almost entirely bad news, as the first quarter revenues of the current fiscal year yielded one billion fewer dollars than what was the budget required.
Following the briefing, Delegate Wayne Norman called for a thorough review of all state spending programs – not just general fund revenues – and a freeze on any new spending programs. In the weeks ahead, Norman and the Republican Caucus also plan to announce concrete measures to bring Maryland’s government back within its means and without relying on new taxes or fees.
With state workers experiencing furloughs at a state savings of approximately $33 million dollars, the sacrifice imposed produces only a fraction of what the state needs to do to fix its errors. “It’s as if the Conowingo Dam broke down the middle, and the state’s answer is to make its employees carry a bucket to the top and pour it back in,” Norman said. “It hurts the employees, and doesn’t really improve the state’s problem.”
During the 2009 Session, Delegate Norman voted against the budget out of concern for the unlikely high revenue expectations and the even higher expenditures. After the briefing, Norman said, “You can’t add expensive programs while complaining that you don’t have enough to make ends meet as it is. Poor planning is what got the state in this situation, and only addressing the issues can fix the problems.”
“Maryland needs to stop punishing businesses and hard working citizens and to start encouraging free enterprise. With the state cutting jobs and unemployment at 7.8%, encouraging economic growth and eliminating waste must begin this session through sound long-term policy decisions.”
Well Said! It is about time someone is being rational about the States retarded budget. The only thing he forgot to say about the Dam breaking is the employees wouldn’t get paid to take their bucket to the top!
Another thing he “forgot” to say was that he voted for the Budget.
“During the 2009 Session, Delegate Norman voted against the budget out of concern for the unlikely high revenue expectations and the even higher expenditures”
The Capital Budget of 2009:
The full text of the bill:
http://mlis.state.md.us/2009rs/chapters_noln/Ch_485_hb0102E.pdf
The delegates who voted for this monstrosity:
http://mlis.state.md.us/2009rs/votes/house/1176.htm
here is the voting record
http://monoblogue.us/files/Delegate%20voting%20record%202009.pdf
House Bill 100 is the 2009/10 budget
That’s because he voted AGAINST the budget, as did the rest of Harford’s republican delegates. Thank Bean for the source.
I would like to see everyone sucking off of the state welfare system to take five furlough days. I get out of bed every day and go to work for this state and I took a 2% pay cut.
Yeah, those annoying children who were unfortunate enough to be born to deadbeat/loser/addicted/disabled parents should just go hungry for five days. Good thinking Jeff.
Lets be honest even under the republican plan the drastic fall off in revenue would have caused balancing cuts to keep the state budget balanced as mandated. We need to generate jobs Its strange that republicans like norman express concern for employees, schools and services when they don’t even vote to provide funding in the state budget…they hit every ground breaking and ribbon cutting but still try to cover themselves by proclaiming that they did not vote for the budget.
This is nuts… we need to increase taxes. There is NO evidence that a PROGRESSIVE tax increase during a recession is detrimental to a recovery. It is one of those things that everybody (across the entire political spectrum) says, without data to support that statement! The relationships between taxes and economy are not nearly as obvious as it may seem. Maryland (and the US as a whole) needs more progressive taxes for crying out loud.
Oh, and for those a few weeks ago that tried to lecture me about President Kennedy’s proposal to cut taxes, it should be noted that in the 1963 tax cut, where JFK proposed the idea that tax cuts would actually increase federal tax revenue by increasing productivity, the taxes on those making 500k or more moved from 90% to about 72%-75%. At those levels, he may have been correct, however the data do not show so (rather there was little to no change in tax revenue). We are so far below that now that his arguments have little to no bearing on today’s tax realities. Also it should be noted that the Repugs of the time fought bitterly against the tax cut (which was aimed at increasing demand, not supply side as the Reaganite teabaggers like to argue), AND it was not Kennedy that passed the tax cuts, it was Johnson.
More namecalling – are you a homophobe or just ignorant?
Phil,
Ignorant and dangerous.
#1 – I am most certainly not homophobic. #2 – I am most certainly not ignorant, the fact that I actually research some of the things I am discussing rather than just regurgitating Rush, Sean, and Glen shows that well enough. #3 – teabagger = people that protest by throwing around teabags; not name-calling, simply reality.
I think you are afraid of real people homo means people and phobic means fear.
The fact that you are in fact ignorant has been shown over and over. Let them think you’re stupid, don’t speaqk and/or write.
Look up teabagger on google you vile slob.
Holy moly! I looked up teabagger on Google and your face turned up!
OK, you have failed just one more simple test. Here is the definition that Joe Caruso and the rest have subtly tossed out there and why they have discounted yo as a fool.
Teabagger The sexual act of dangling the male testicles over the face of the recipient.
Dave
The SadCrudeDemocratic (aka ProudDemocratic) knows exactly what his vile invective means. He knows that T.E.A. stands for Taxed Enough Already and TEA Party activists do not refer to themselves as “teabaggers”.
Joe
Joe;
I’m not sure this fool knows much of anything. His/her description of “fair taxes” is absolutely mind boggling. Are you and I the only ones who realize that Atlas can and will shrug if this continues?
By the way, who is John Galt.
Dave –
I doubt many folks on this forum have read Atlas Shrugged.
Of course the SadCrudeDemocratic won’t define rich or wealthy income levels and he has little understanding of economics and taxation. He does not understand that a flat tax is progressive since the more you earn the more tax you pay.
Joe
Joe
The problem is that flat tax, by definition, is NOT progressive. With progressive taxation, higher-income earners pay a higher PERCENTAGE of taxes than do lower income earners. In trying to label me as ignorant, you defined your own ignorance.
Neither DY nor JC have addressed the true problem with non-progressive taxation. Without progressive taxation, a middle class cannot exist. The evidence for this is overwhelming. Our middle class as it stands now exists as a direct result of the FDR policies in the 30s and 40s. Since Reagan’s time, the percentage of people that fall into middle class has fallen, disastrously so during the Bush II years. We need to return to progressive tax policies (at the very least repeal the Bush cuts), or the disparity in incomes between the top and bottom will continue to grow with devastating long-term effects.
The teabagger types of course will ignore this, do not care about the middle class, and are clearly unwilling to actually read a non-partisan summary of tax policy impacts, but for those of you that have an open mind, please research what is being discussed here. Republican tax policies hurt you. They hurt the middle class and they REALLY hurt lower-income Americans. This may not seem important if you are solidly in the middle class, but a preponderance of teabagger ideals in the federal government would have the result of making many middle-income Americans into low-income Americans. We must not let the simpleton discussion promulgated by the teabaggers ever become reality. They do have the simpler message, but as is so often the case, simpler does not mean more correct.
The homophobe Proud Democrat argues for “progressive” taxation as if it is a good thing. Not surprising.
The folks who understand progressive taxation and still want it are simply those who are jealous of the rich. Your idea of preserving the middle class is to tax the upper class under they ARE the middle class. That’s one way of doing it.
Just as liberals disguise their beliefs by calling themselves “Progressives”, this form of taxation is nothing but a barely disguised form of “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”. Sound familiar, comrades?
ProudDemocrat’s remarks usually are so laughable that they remind me of Groucho Marx, not Karl, but not this time.
I am both liberal and progressive. In this instance however, progressive for tax purposes does not mean the same thing as progressive politically. One can be conservative and still ‘believe’ in progressive taxation. You are 100% incorrect about the idea that progressive taxation is in some way a ‘great equalizer’ or one-fits-all approach.
Progressive taxation allows for a true middle-class to exist. The middle-class provides the vast majority of the industrial might needed for future growth, in addition to the vast majority of thinkers and entrepreneurs of tomorrow. Having a middle-class allows greater numbers of people to have the basic resources necessary to compete in an ever-changing and ever more technological and international business climate. Without the middle class, or with a shrinking middle class (as we have now), the United States is at a competitive disadvantage to those countries that either have a well-established middle class or those that have a growing middle-class.
No, I get it. Blather on all you wish, but you want to punish the rich. How completely, and not surprisingly, anti-capitalist (and ultimately un-American) of you.
SadCrudeDemocratic –
Your comments defy the economic reality that if you excessively tax money out of the productive private sector and use it to grow government you will increase unemployment, reduce private investment and effectively reduce tax receipts received by state and federal government.
Joe
P.S. It is still illegal for you to teabag with your Shiatsu.
Joe,
Pretty sure you’ve lost every right to call anyone else crude or to feign disgust when someone else uses a crude or rude term.
PD, I asked yo a fairly simple and fundamental question the other day. You either didn’t see it or didn’t bother. What is your definition of wealth? I would like to give your comments some credibility but need to know how you see things fundamentally first.
I am not sure what any definition of wealth matters to this debate. I think that progressive taxation means that people with more wealth pay a higher percentage of taxes than those with less wealth. I do not see where there needs to be a magic point at which somebody is considered wealthy. I have no problem paying more taxes by percentage than somebody who makes less than me, and would expect people that make more than me to pay a higher percentage than I do. Without progressive taxation, a middle class cannot exist.
For a simple demonstration of this, look at the strength of the middle class across nations with more and less progressiveness in tax code. The data are amazingly consistent, and knowing such realities makes me fear for our future any time I hear a Republican discuss tax cuts for higher-income earners that they hope will ‘trickle down’ to lower income Americans. There is no evidence that this works whatsoever, and as such the constant tendency of the Republicans to revert to this argument must be nothing short of misleading, a policy that makes large campaign donors more money while hurting the middle class.
Thanks for not answering the question but at the same time revealing your complete lack of understanding of the simple basics of economics. For the rest of you PD needs to be ignored from now on. He or she is just an ignorant boob who repeats the ABC/NBC/CBS crap.
Please show me one aspect of my reply that-
1: does not answer your question (if you want a value, then I would say anything much more than 250k a year is clearly beyond ‘middle’ class; but that still does not matter when it comes to progressiveness)
and 2: reflects how I am “an ignorant boob who repeats the ABC/NBC/CBS crap”. I watch/listen/read almost nothing from ABC, NBC, CBS, or FOX as they are all lead by exceedingly wealthy people that benefit greatly by Republican tax policy, a policy that my research into economics has shown time and time again is damaging to the middle class.
I heard somebody say this once about Republicans: Republicans use religion to prompt poor people to vote against their economic best interest. In a debate during the 2004 election this idea was brought forward, and the conservative commentator fumed that the poor people that vote overwhelmingly for Republicans know that the Repug policies hurt them financially, but the abortion issue was more important to them than fiscal policy. In this the representative was agreeing that the Republican policies hurt the middle class. The evidence for this is overwhelming, and only ideology can blind one from coming to this conclusion.
Are you saying that ABC/NBC/CBS are liberal? Don’t we liberals wish!
And just because someone disagrees with your opinion of what is good economic policy doesn’t mean they don’t understand economics.
What do the following three groups have in common: politicians, used car salesmen, and guys at the bar at last call? They’re all committed to figuring out what you want to hear, so they can close the deal (i.e., lock up your vote, sell you the car, or take you home).
I appreciate Delegate Norman’s call for a “thorough review” of state spending, but isn’t that (to borrow a bad metaphor) as if the Conowingo Dam broke down the middle, and Delegate Norman’s answer is to review the fundamentals of structural engineering? The time for “thorough reviews” has come and gone. The time for concrete proposals is here. Delegate Norman promises to unveil a few concrete proposals “in the weeks ahead.” I, for one, will be pleasantly surprised if he and his colleagues follow through on that promise.
I appreciate Delegate Norman’s support for a freeze on new spending programs. It’s right on par with “rides like a dream” or “baby, you’ve got pretty eyes.” According to the legislature’s non-partisan budget analysts, the cost of teacher pensions increased $137.3 million from the last fiscal year to the current fiscal year. That’s an increase of 22.1%. That increase is not discretionary. It’s based on the state’s pension formula. Is that a “new spending program”? If it’s not a new spending program, are you going to freeze it anyway? If you’re not going to freeze it, are you going to pass the costs back to the counties? Or cut the teachers’ retirement benefits? Or jeopardize the state’s credit rating by not funding the retirement liability? Or cut somewhere else to off-set the cost?
I appreciate Delegate Norman’s love for state employees, but does anyone else think that’s the dumbest political position for Republicans in this state to stake out? AFSCME donates tens of millions of dollars to Democrats nationally. AFSCME donated $500,000 to “For Maryland, For Our Future” last year (for those of you who’ve forgotten, that was the pro-slots campaign).
Moreover, Republicans argue for limited government, smaller government. How do you get to a smaller government without reducing the size of the state workforce? Delegate Norman’s commitment to state workers strikes me as thinly-veiled pandering, symptomatic of a Republican Party that is so obsessed with flanking Martin O’Malley that it has forgotten its core values. What’s the Republican Caucus hope to gain from its newfound advocacy for state workers? The odds of AFSCME abandoning the Democratic Party over this are about as good as my odds of winning Friday’s Mega Millions jackpot.
Part of the anger towards government and government officials comes from resentment towards pandering politicians. That cuts across party lines. Republicans, Democrats, whomever… we’re sick of all of you acting like used car salesmen or guys just looking to score at the bar.
Instead of patting yourself on the back for your pithy press releases, make a substantive contribution to the conversation. Level with us and tell us how you’d solve the problem. While you’re at it, remember your core principles, because your incessant effort to out-manuver the Governor is absurd. If anything, the fact that Republicans in this state can’t find a message other than “we’re not Martin O’Malley” makes me think we should vote Wayne Norman and his ilk out of office in the primary and replace them with Republicans who will stand FOR something, instead of just standing against the Governor.
Well said.
Delegate Norman isn’t simply pandering to state employees, and he isn’t just saying he is against O’Malley. He’s saying that better planning would have kept us out of the situation of making mid-year decisions and finding a $1 billion loss in ONE QUARTER!
Government needs to shrink, and that means fewer departments, fewer jobs, and fewer employees. Those decisions should be made as part of a plan, though; they should not be forced because of impossible projections.
The current budget plan calls for no inflation. Obama just dumped trillions of made-up dollars into the economy; inflation must follow. The budget plan calls for revenue increases in the next 3 cycles, including increases of as much as 8.5% in 2012. We’ve had 3 years of less-than-anticipated revenues. Sound budgeting means you cannot expect a huge bounce back in the economy.
WE JUST LOST $1 BILLION IN 3 MONTHS! Yet they rely on $600 million in slots revenue, when Anne Arundel won’t even hold a discussion until next year, and Cecil just voted to keep the $6 million the slots gurus asked for, and were told they might not have slots because of it.
Delegate Norman voted against the budget because of these problems, and if the budget was off by $1 billion in 3 months it sure seems like the right call to me.
Brian,
The “used car salesman” phrase really applies here- it’s like the dealers who tell you “I’ll sell it to you for our invoice!”
But which invoice is Mr. Norman talking about? Yes, he voted against the Operating Budget, but… and this is a BIG but…
Wayne voted FOR the Capital Budget of 2009, HB102. New state debt created by this bill: $1.1 BILLION!!!!
The full text of the bill:
http://mlis.state.md.us/2009rs/chapters_noln/Ch_485_hb0102E.pdf
The delegates who voted for this monstrosity:
http://mlis.state.md.us/2009rs/votes/house/1176.htm
Facts are facts, check out the links. At least Senators Jacobs and Harris had enough respect for taxpayers not to vote for this mess.
can’t cuts in spending by the govt need to be more sustantive than some furloughs?
We need a govt more responsive to the working class, and less to the social engineering pundits that believe that jobs come from govt and govt programs provide wealth and productivity, the reality is that the opposite is true. Social programs promote complacency and dependency in the system that keeps people from earning real dollars and paying real income taxes, as oppossed to receiving refundable tax credits called “earned income credits” that you and I have earned and they are receiving because they are low income?
The state spends ungodly amounts of $$$ in medicaid, food stamps, tca, child care support and other inducements to remain poor that people have no incentive to make past the maximum limit, so that these benefits will keep on coming.
The richest state in the nation? the highest income per capita? Where is the money? I see less in my paycheck and more to welfare recepients.
Tami
People that have children with no resources need to pay their own way, you can’t get free housing, medication, food stamps, energy assistance, earned income tax credits, free vocational training, grants and other sorts of poverty inducements and expect the working fold struggling to make ends meet to keep footing the bill.
Additionally, the state needs to cut jobs, become more efficient and reduce the tax burden, this also goes for the county as well.
Rocco and others:
You have got to be kidding? Or, I hope you are. But, I know you are not. You would torture the children of people that could not afford to have them by not affording health care, food or other social justice issues because you think that they ‘need to pay their own way?’ You would have a child who’s parent has lost her job because of this terrible economy suffer and worry that she was not going to have anything to eat? Where is your empathy for other human beings or those less fortunate than you?
Also, why doesn’t anyone ever talk about the money that the state and federal governments spend to support business – small and large? Not all of your taxes go to social programs. It goes to teachers, police officers, infrastructure, water safety. Those of you that rant against taxes seem to always forget what you get for your taxes. Or, that those taxes are used to support private industry. Without large infrastructure contracts of defense contracts, we would not have the well-paying jobs that we do have in this community. And, without a well-educated, healthy, safe community, we would not have private employers that would want to be in our community. Stop thinking about the small picture when you are complaining. Think about others – for once.
So why did Delegate Norman have Gov. O’Malley over to his 4th of July party if he was so concerned with his reckless spending? Dining with the devil is rarely a good option.
kim
nothing wrong with a helping hand, but raising someone else’s kids from babies to adulhood is just plainly a waste on my tax $$$$. The permanency perputuated by these programs creates dependency and discourages indenpendence and self reliance. These benefits need to be temporary and minimal in time so that “poor” people can improve their lives through hard work and perseverance.
kim
at least businesses provide jobs and income for people to increae their net wealth without tapping into my pocketbook.
Benefits are temporary and minimal. The average length of time on assistance is between 12 and 15 months, depending upon which report is referenced. And if you, Rocco, don’t think it takes persistence to secure assistance and services in this state, I invite you to spend at few hours at your local DSS office.
Although it is not publicized much, MD’s Welfare to Work program is being used as a model in several other states at the current time. Our stats are superior to every other state in placing TCA recipients in work programs. The logic behind the WtoW programs is this: A work ethic is learned. It is not something we are born with. Those of us lucky enough to have had parents who got up every day and went to work religiously absorbed the mindset that this is what one does to survive. Kids who have not had that opportunity struggle. Clinton’s welfare reform policies were genius in some ways. They used scientific studies to determine policy rather than punitive motivation or knee jerk liberalism.
I could go on and on about this but I’m sure your eyes have glazed over.
tami
more like eyes rolling to be back of my head. TCA recepients can receive benefits for up to 5 years, and once they are no longer eligible, their kids are still eligible for food stamps, medical assistance, housing subsidies and the always available “earned income tax credit” that pays low income workers extra money either monthly or yearly to “compensate” for their trouble in obtaining employment.
additonally, parents can get purchase of care credits that basically pay for their child care even when the child care provider happens to be a family member!!!. this translates into grand mama getting paid to watch her own grandchildren!!! the money being spent is in the hundreds per child per month until age 12.
the system is corrupt with welfare parents getting paid to have kids and no incentive to get off the system, and the system has no incentive to reduce the welfare rolls, because as long as there are poor people their social welfare jobs are guaranteed.
CAN receive benefits for up to 5 years. Very few do, however. All children in this stae are able to receive health care coverage if their parents make under a certain amount. By far, the most children receiving this coverage at the current time are the offspring of working parents.
Purchase of care child care credits are for parents who are employed or in work readiness programs only. I am not sure what a social welfare job is, and I assure you there is plenty of incentive to move beyond receiving TCA. It provides for only subsistence living, comes with a huge stigma for the children of parents receiving it, and is, by definition, temporary.
There will most certainly always be poor people in our current economic system. How we deal with them is a moral and not an economic issue, althought the two are closely tied. To be a poor person in this society is to be very ashamed, and this is a heavy burden on the children of the underclass. That you, Roccco, don’t seem to care about this aspect of poverty and feel entitled to pass judgement only paints you as a selfish person.
if caring about paying my bills makes me selfish then i guess i am. I am selfish enough to work hard for the money that I make and selfish enough to be responsible for the offspring that i helped conceive. I am also selfish enough to give to the United Way and serve meals at Our Daily Bread and give to charity and social causes. Tami I do care for the poor and the disabled and they down and out. but the state is taking my money and giving it to people that cheat the system, have kids with no regard to their financial capabilities and seek more resources from the taxpayer.
I don’t feel that you seem to have the same regard, and consideration for those that pay taxes and get up and go to work everyday to pay their bills and their tax obligation!!!!
Rocco
You do sound like one of those who cares for your fellow man so I regret calling you selfish. My apologies. I would like for you to consider, however, that the welfare scofflaws you reference are by far the exception. They are the ones who give the majority a very bad wrap and cause countless children a shame filled existence. They make me very very angry too, as I, like you, toil daily to support my family.
It is unfair to label all those who make appropriate use of TCA by the few who abuse it.
Rocco you for got too mention,grandma is in the ”system” Double Dipping. & just a few years ago.Maryland was totally behind in any kind of welfare reform
No such thing as birth control. gotta keep that money flowing.
I’m a solidly middle class citizen but I already pay 30% of my income to the Federal, State, and Local government in taxes. 30% people! And this doesn’t count property taxes, and the sales tax that nickle and dime the public to death. That’s 12 hours per week I work for the government.
Then let’s add the 11% in health care costs (5 hours per week of my labor)- and don’t tell me the federal health care plan will fix all that. Nope, it will just reallocate that 11% to the federal coffers, leave me with worse quality care than I started with, and no tax break to go with any of it.
So that leaves me 59% of my income to house, feed, and clothe my family. I don’t own a new car, I can’t afford to put tires on the car I have thanks to the new 35% tarrif! I shop at goodwill and aldi and have to live within a very tight budget. If I have to be fiscally responsible in order to survive, so should the government. So when I hear ‘raise taxes’ I get really upset. Isn’t 30% of my income enough?!
This is the principle behind Taxed Enough Already. It’s about fiscal responsibility and accountability. It’s perfectly resonable to expect the government to have to be accountable for it’s rediculous spending; ie earmarks, porkbarrel, etc. Why should my taxes go to pay for an art museum in Hawaii in honor of some congressmen, or in special funding for this or that. What about the basic necessities? All this partisan baloney needs to be set aside and we need to be responsible citizens – every single one of us, including those whom we elected to be stewards of our nation. It’s time to stop pushing in the sandbox and grow up.
Well said Juls. To take over where Juls left off, if you now take into consideration, all of the other taxes it gets worse. The “other taxes or “fees” as our elected elite like to call them, or better yet our contributions (like it’s done freely.) Anyway the real estate taxes (State, County and Municipal, gas taxes, sales tax (the most regressive and unfair of all) beer, wine and liquor, luxury, drivers license, vehicle registration, dog license, business license, and so on and so on, we are paying upwards of 60% of our income into taxes! 60% means that the first 24 hours of any work week is devoted to keeping the big machine lubricated. That means you don’t start working toward your bills, retirement, kids college, etc until about the 11th of July each year. When I see fools like the ProudCrudeDemocrat saying that we need to pay more in taxes I want to commit mayhem! How long before we leave the productive class and join the parasitic class? How many productive people does it take to support one parasite? At what point does Atlas shrug?
Dave, you hit it on the head. People don’t think in these terms. This is a financial problem, not an emotional one, and if people really sit down and do the math they’ll be outraged as well.
My husband and I have a phrase “the responsible pay for the irresponsible”. It’s true in daily life and it’s true in government. When do we start electing people who will be responsible, regardless of their party affiliation? Or maybe the question should be, when will the responsible step up to bat, get into the political arena, and give us someone responsible to vote for? When do we hold those people accountable to be responsible? That is what we’re starting to see – the people holding the elected officials accountable for the first time in a long time.
The last things the teabaggers are doing is holding elected officials accountable… rather they are making a sham of the political process by spreading mis-truths in a loud and obnoxious way backed by FOX along with Rush and other radio personalities that have completely mislead about 30% of the American public.
The cuts you push will only serve to make Americans more disconnected from healthcare, education, and services such as internet, libraries, and internet. The extreme conservatives of course want all of us good and stupid as that will lead to the generation of yet more teabagger types… those that succumb to the simple message rather than take the time, effort, and skills necessary to understand the economic realities that progressives are discussing.
SadCrudeDemocratic –
You sir are to be pitied for your ignorance.
Joe
Why the infatuation with this sexual activity, PD? Does it make you feel all tingly inside to drop these references? Really, are you homophobic or do you just feel the need to tell us about your personal practices?
We really don’t care about your sex life, so try to stay on topic. I know it must be difficult since you don’t have the facts on your side.
There isn’t any accountability coming from the Liberal side either. But the “Blue Dogs” offer some hope == that’s a sad name given to make these folks attempting to be responsible look low and kickable
It’s not about party affiliation, it’s about responsibility.
Fine but when you all get older…..I want my Social Security and Medicare taxes back!