(Bel Air, MD – June 13, 2009) – Harford County Sheriff’s deputies are investigating the death of Dwight Jerome Madison, 48, who has no fixed address.
On June 11, 2009 at 8:50 p.m. deputies responded to the 900 block of Hillswood Road, Bel Air for a reported suspicious person who was later identified as Dwight Madison. Madison did not live in the vicinity and claimed that he was looking for a friend who he only knew by a first name. He was advised to leave the area, which is private property, by the responding deputy. At 10:54 p.m. deputies were again called to the 900 block of Hillswood Road, Bel Air for a reported suspicious person banging on doors. The suspicious person was again identified as Dwight Madison who again advised he was homeless and searching for his friend who he only knew by a first name. Madison was subsequently arrested for trespassing and transported to the Processing Center at the Detention Center. Madison arrived at the Processing Center at approximately 11:35 p.m.
At 1:24 a.m. on June 12, 2009, deputies assigned to the Processing Center attempted to fingerprint Madison as part of the processing procedures. Madison became uncooperative and refused to comply with deputies’ instructions. As a result, Madison was placed back into the holding cell until he became cooperative.
At approximately 9:10 a.m. Madison was approached regarding being fingerprinted and advised he would cooperate with the deputies. After being fingerprinted deputies began to escort Madison to the commissioner’s office for his initial hearing when he suddenly became combative and a struggle ensued. During the confrontation Madison fought with two correctional deputies and one civilian employee. Madison was able to grab and choke one of the deputies during the struggle. A third correctional deputy arrived to assist who also was equipped with a TASER Electronic Control Device. Madison was warned at least two times and physically shown the TASER device. He continued to be combative and the TASER device was deployed striking Madison in the upper leg. Madison then fell, striking his head on the floor. Deputies observed Madison to be in medical distress and rendered aid while also requesting facility medical personnel and an ambulance to assist.
The Bel Air Volunteer Fire Department treated Madison on the scene and transported him to Upper Chesapeake Medical Center. Madison was later transported to the University of Maryland Shock Trauma where he later died today, June 13, 2009.
One of the involved correctional deputies was treated by Detention Center medical personnel for minor injuries.
Pretty simple. If he didn’t fight the deputies, they wouldn’t have had to taser him. It’s an unfortunate outcome, but it sounds like they were doing their jobs.
If he was a troubled soul with mental health issues, I hope he rests in peace. If he was just a bad person, I hope he brought his suntan lotion and plenty of water.
Well thanks and no thank on your comment on my baby brother. First of all he is black. We in America always seem to believe the public relations personnell whose job is to lie and make certain accusations for the appearance of professionalism. They were a bunch killers. His death a homicide. The third black to be killed in this center.Im so deep in these people asses, all are shaking in their boots. Hell is reserved for them, not brother, he never hurt anyone.The United States is home,the sky his roof. He was not trespassing when he served honorably on the USS Ranger. Deep in your pockets you will go, an 11 by 13 cell will be homes.
Are you Tyrone Smith brother
Does anyone know if Dwight Madison was African American or white?
Well I am a relative of Dwight Madison and to “Phil Dirt” I believe that you need to fully understand the circumstances before you give such an ignorant, heartless statement. The media is only one side of the story. Im not giving further information because there is a lawyer involved in this. I just suggest that you watch what you say about people. You never know when something may happen to your family!
And no he wasnt a bad person! He was a Veteran who served this country! Never did any harm to anyone! He wasnt homeless either! But like I said before this is only one side of the story.
And to the “Villager” he was African American.
My prayers are with you and the rest of Mr. Madison’s family. I have updated my blog post to remove the ‘homeless’ information. Mr. Madison is the 22nd person to die in America as a result of taser this year. Oddly, 50% of the dead men were Black … Black men are only 6% of the population, yet we are 50% of the people killed by this taser-torture.
When will we rise up to protest this increased killings by tasers?
peace, Villager
Thank you Villager. Justice will be served for this one.
Villager I agree. but the taser’s has been proven to be and effective weapon. the death’s are unacceptable.
Ms. Madison, if you would take the time to read my “ignorant, heartless statement” before reacting, you would have noticed that I said, “If he was just a bad person, I hope he brought his suntan lotion and plenty of water.”
The key word is “IF”
You decalre that you are a relative and that he wasn’t a bad person, so that eliminates the part of my post that I qouted above. Which part of the rest of my message is ignorant and heartless? The part about deputies doing their jobs or the part about him resting in peace?
Not to make light of the situation, but the Taser did not kill him. He died from head trauma after hitting the cement floor. Viilager you obviously have never studied the subject if you are saying people are being killed by Tasers. While in some cases the officers use of the taser is questionable(multiple tasings, environmental factors) the Taser itself is not the culprit. Do some research, they tried to say Pepper Spray killed people when it first came out too.
@protaser – He doesn’t hit his head without 50,000 volts of electricity being pumped into his body. He becomes the 22nd victim of taser-torture in America so far this year — http://electronicvillage.blogspot.com/2009/05/taser-related-deaths-in-united-states.html
I’m not against the taser. I’m against a police force that doesn’t seem to want to abide by the Use of Force Continuum.
peace, Villager
Villager said, “He becomes the 22nd victim of taser-torture in America so far this year.” OK, now tell me how many law enforcent officers were killed and how many were wounded this year by people resisting arrest or not following orders? Fifty percent of the deaths you attribute to tasers were black men. What percentage of people who were tasered were black? What percent of people arrested were black? What percent were white? What percent of people charged with resisting arrest were black? white? other? Give me something to compare it to.
“When will we rise up to protest this increased killings by tasers?” Well, if your uprising gets out of hand, you may get tasered. Don’t go crazy.
Tasers don’t kill people. Resisting the instructions of law enforcement personnel and endangering their lives might. Do the right thing.
As a relative of Dwight Madison, I also feel that Phil Dirt’s comments are ignorant and somewhat misinformed. Sure, you’re going off the strength of this story as it was reported… but since you are, let’s look at the story itself.
IN THE FIRST PLACE: If someone is knocking on doors looking for someone, obviously not knowing the person’s exact address (otherwise they’d be at THEIR door, correct?), since when does that become grounds to arrest someone? Obviously, they are lost or are in an area unfamiliar to them, but is their knocking some form of malicious intent? How come the police (whose job is to “protect and serve”) didn’t take measures in order to perhaps help him find whom he was looking for instead of locking him up like he’d done something wrong? THAT would be a case of them “doing their jobs”. The report itself doesn’t contain any mention of him doing anything malicious or threatening.
SECONDLY: in a police station full of officers, how powerful can one man be to not simply be restrained instead of tased like a wild animal?
THIRD: how can one man with nothing but his bare hands “endanger the lives” of armed police officers? One man with nothing vs. numerous officers with weapons doesn’t sound like THEY had anything to worry about as far as their “lives being endangered”… which FURTHER proves that the measures that were taken here could’ve been avoided.
As far as this comment here: “Well, if your uprising gets out of hand, you may get tasered. Don’t go crazy.”… I’ve already dignified it enough by quoting it. Now read that back to yourself and think of how ridiculous it sounds. You probably thought you were being clever or witty, but you failed.
It’s quite obvious that this situation should’ve been handled a lot better than it was from the get-go, as well as at the station. I’m sure that being a police officer is a tough job and they encounter all kinds of conflict that they have to handle the best way they know how. But considering what happened, was THIS occurence handled THE BEST WAY THEY KNOW HOW?
-D
Tasers don’t kill you (even if you have a pacemaker they won’t affect it.) In every case where someone has died after being Tased there were other factors involved and in no cases has the Taser been listed as the cause of death. Yea, it hurts, but as soon as the current stops you can get up and walk around, keep fighting (which is why so many idiots get Tased multiple times…) Read the research. It’s freely available on the web. Are there times when tasers have been improperly used, of course (the video of a woman in FL who was tased something like 15 times AFTER being handcuffed comes to mind.)
He died because he attacked two Corrections Officers and a civilian at the DC. He was trying to choke one of the officers. Here’s an idea…if you don’t want to get tased, shot, or beaten by the authorities, then don’t assault officers. Yes, it’s a tragedy, but he died because he hit his head after attacking several people in a jail. That’s not the fault of the officers, though I’m sure you’ll have lawyers lining up drooling at the thought of possibly getting a piece of the inevitable lawsuit.
“He wasn’t a bad person.” Sure…that’s why attacked 2 officers. I love how family members and friends of criminals always says “he’s not a bad person.” He may have been a veteran, but that doesn’t make him a good person. I have the utmost respect for almost everyone who puts on a uniform to defend our country, but there are some bad apples in every bunch.
To DLM,
It happened at the detention center, not in a police station. My understanding is that the only time a taser is even carried in there is when they have someone who they know is combative (which clearly Mr. Madison was.) If he hadn’t been combative and uncooperative prior to this happening then there wouldn’t have even been a taser there.
As far as an unarmed person seriously injuring or killing an armed officer (and at the detention center the only weapons usually carried are pepper spray and occasionally a taser or other stun device…and pepper spray is not very effective against someone who is intent on attacking or hurting someone) it has happened before and it will happen again, unfortunately. Most of the time, tasers cause less injuries to everyone involved than getting into a fight does. Obviously in this case, that’s not true.
I’m sorry you lost a relative, but even if he was “doing nothing wrong” in the first place to get arrested (which I disagree with since he had already been told once that he was trespassing on private property and to leave according to the story), once he got to the detention center he clearly was doing something wrong since he attacked two officers.
OK… To Tasers,
Police station, detention center… orange, tangerine… who cares. You knew what I meant.
I like how you said the part about family members and friends of “criminals” saying the “he wasn’t a bad person” line. I’m sure it goes on a lot. But in this case, me and my cousin “Ms. Madison” are not saying it in some form of “cover-up” attempt or anything of that nature. You can assume whatever you want due to this incident, but we both KNEW him for over 20 years, so I think we know a little more about the kind of person he was than you do. Perfect? Of course not. Made the best decisions all the time? Of course not. But a criminal who sought to do malicious crime? ABSOLUTELY not.
And you’re right, he was in the service. Actually, he was very seriously and irreversibly AFFECTED by the time he spent in the service, but I won’t get into that here. But just as you can be so quick to say not everyone in the service is a good person, neither is every police officer, now isn’t that correct?
No one is saying he didn’t get combative, or that there wasn’t some form of conflict… that’s obvious. But your stance appears to be that their status as police officers gives them some benefit of the doubt that maybe THEY did everything right. As I said already, their job is also to assist people instead of arresting them when they’re not commiting a crime in the first place. I know from my own experiences that some police officers can be helpful, but others can jump to conclusions and do uncalled-for things for the slightest of reasons (i.e. making an arrest on someone who was clearly in need of finding a friend). Just something to consider.
-D
DLM – read my post carefully.
There are two choices:
1. Mentally ill – rest in peace
2. Bad person – burn for eternity
His relatives have vouched for him being a not bad person, so the answer seems to be #1. Now read my post again. Carefully.
“If he was a troubled soul with mental health issues, I hope he rests in peace.”
I apologize if you found my sincere wishes offensive. Unless of course, you are going off the board with the wild card:
3. Innocent man minding his own business, brutally attacked by cops for no reason. Family justifiably upset. Lawyers salivating at the chance to go after The Man and ca$h in.
If true, then go for it. Nobody should be subjected to that. If not true, then I wish the results of choice #2 on anyone who falsely accuses anyone of that.
BTW, in my eyes, their status as police officers DOES gives them some benefit of the doubt that maybe THEY did everything right. You may disagree. That’s your choice.
I’ve already said more than I really needed to say in this discussion. Ultimately, this doesn’t need to be explained or discussed with ‘Tasers’ or ‘Phil Dirt’… but it WILL be discussed with those who it needs to be discussed with, no doubt.
And yes, the police are expected to handle things correctly and are given that benefit of doubt… but that DOES NOT mean that in all situations, they conduct themselves to the best of their abilities either. I think there are MORE than enough examples of that. And if police officers can’t do that, in addition to other things they’ve DEFINITELY done incorrectly, then what is their purpose?
That’s that.
-D
I knew Dwight or Dee as a customer in a store where i worked and as a friend and my contacts with him were always pleasant. He was truly a gentle giant of a man. Always smiling and willing to help out. I don’t know what happened on this bad day but he had been under alot of stress and had been treated poorly lately by numerous local merchants. Financial stress can wear on a person for sure. I only hope I get to meet his relatives at the services for this delightful man so I can tell how I saw him. I have prayed for peace and rest for his soul and feel I have another Angel watching out for his “Miss Barbara” forever. Rest in Peace Mr. Dwight.
DLM,
Maybe he just had issues (which is probably the case) and I know it’s not at all uncommon for veterans to have major psychological/emotional/physicals issues after serving their country (and in some cases those issues to not show up until years later) and I think more needs to be done to help them avoid ending up in situations like this.
According to the story the police originally made contact with him around 8:50 and told him he needed to leave. 3 hours later he was still banging on doors and causing a problem in the area. If this was happening in your neighborhood I’m sure you would expect the police to do something about it and asking them to bang on every door in the area looking for someone who may or may not be there is not going to happen (there aren’t enough deputies working at any given time to make doing something like that remotely possible) so please tell me what they should have done. Unless he’s exhibiting some signs of being in medical distress or that he’s a threat to himself or others they can’t take him to the hospital. About the only option they had at that point was to arrest him for trespassing and take him to the jail which gets him out of the area for the night and hopefully by the time he gets out something can figured out for him during normal hours. Had he been cooperative there to begin with he likely would’ve been out in a few hours with no bond or a very small bond. Instead he refused to cooperate for several hours, told the officers that he would cooperate, and then for some reason known to no one but himself he attacked two officers and got tased. It’s a tragedy, but blaming it on the arresting officer, the officers who initially responded, or the officers at the jail is a bit unreasonable, I think. Regardless, you have to remember that while you and all the rest of us can sit here and debate “well, they could’ve done this” or “they should’ve done that” until the end of time, the corrections officers had to make a split second decision on what to do.
And yes, I know there are officers who do questionable things and in some cases illegal things, but from what I’ve heard about this case (which admittedly isn’t much) that wasn’t the case here. I didn’t know Mr. Madison and I don’t know any of the officers involved. None of us have any idea what was going through his mind when all of this was going on.
This will be my last comment on this matter because I dont have time to entertain ignorance. Also, I stated before that there are lawyers involved in this matter.
I understand the public is making comments and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. People can stereotype and make accusations all day long and it still doesnt get us anywhere. The press release is only 1 side of the story. Unfortunately we can not get the other side of the story now because the victim is dead.
There is so much behind the scenes CRAP and COVER UPS going on that NOBODY is going to understand or hear about unless you are FAMILY to the victim. We have been dealing with it everyday.
My final comment is that its hard enough to have to deal with planning a funeral and loosing a loved one, but its even worse when the authorities wont contact the family to give them the news before they send a press release to the media!!!!! The family is dealing with a lot right now, and the investigators, lawyers, and media is just THAT much more stuff we have to deal with on top of our loss.
***And to Ms. Barbara Conley…thank you very much for your kind words and blessings. I hope to be able to meet you as well.***
They put out the press release with his name before notifying the family? Regardless of whatever else may have happened that was mistake. Most of the time names don’t get released until the family is notified or at least a good attempt is made to locate and notify them.
Yes the press release was sent to the media within 2 hours after he passed. Yet as of Monday 6/15/09 the family still is getting the run around from the authorities. So being on our end of the situation nothing seems right. Which makes us question what really happened here? Why are they not speaking to us? Are they covering something up? Etc…etc…
Now maybe you can understand why we are upset about the situation.
Tasers as a combat veteran it become’s apparent to us vet’s. the first excuse for bad behavior is post traumatic stress syndrome. when one has served his country’ albeit they may have been a cook etc.
Never haveing to take a human life. it’ only belittles those who have given there life.
Gary Owen & Semper fi.
Dam…I see a bunch of people clearly not reading the article and commenting.
Go Dagger !
Ms. Madison…You keep stating, “there are lawyers involved”…I’ll translate what you mean to the rest of the Dagger readers…
TRANSLATION…”I will say baseless emotion driven comments and hide behind my also unsubstantiated comments about lawyers as an excuse for not backing up my baseless claims”.
Go Dagger !
You’ve got that right RichieC. Go back to the article where the young man died in the car crash after having stolen the vehicle. He was a fine upstanding man with a few problems as well. These people don’t get it. Behind the scenes, lawyer-ing up, post traumatic stress syndrome, these people are NOT the victims as their families make them out to be and I’m sick and tired of hearing them rant on mindlessly about what wonderful people these criminals are.
This guy repeatedly said he was homeless. Why are a few saying they are his neighbors? Do they live in the “refrigerator box” next door or was he “lying” .
Go Dagger.
Ms. Madison,
I am very sorry to hear about the death of your family member. I am a journalist and would be interested in speaking with your family about this tragic situation. If you’re interested, please contact me at this email address: mikemetzger9@yahoo.com
Once again, please accept my condolences for your loss.
Ahhh the media looking to get a story from a jilted and angry family member to make the police look evil. The Sheriffs Office will no doubt make no comment as the investigation has not been finished. ( some say thats getting the runaround, I say its being thorough) I wonder if a follow up piece would be written by Mr. Metzger if the deputies are cleared? probably not.
As to the comments made earlier about how can one man overpower officers, you have to look at the situation. No its not that he overpowered them, they indeed followed their use of force continuum to get a combative person under control. Taser use is less harmful than pepper spray and takes absolutely ZERO time to recover. If the officer was allowed to deploy pepper spray than they were more than within their rights to deploy the taser. Would you rather the deputies beat him into submission with batons? How else do you subdue him? Punch him until he says uncle? C’mon gimme a break. And as far as the fall goes Mr. Villager, yes he does hit his head when the officers tackle him to the ground to gain control, yes his head gets struck when they hit him with batons. Asking him nicely apparently just wasn’t working. And you can throw that 50,000 volts number around all you want. Volts is not what affects a person. Do a little research into electricity before you open your mouth. The amperage in which the electricity is delivered is what matters. There is alot more amps in your home outlets than a taser. Do you know what a VanDeGraaf generator is? Its the cool metal globe thing at the Science Center you touch to make your hair stand on end. That machine delivers up to ten times more volts that a taser. But yet thousands of school children aren’t fried to death on field trips. Another fun fact? Just google how much electricity or voltage is generated through static discharge. The good ole rub your feet on the carpet and shock your sister trick. Only speak out on an issue you are fully educated about. Look up how many people died from police sidearms last year. Guess we should take them away to.
@protaser – Actually, the Ue of Force Continuum ranks tasers at the same level as pepper spray – http://electronicvillage.blogspot.com/2008/02/use-of-force-continuum.html
As for the notion that 50,000 volts of electricity is somehow as a children’s exhibit at the local science center … well, I think that the fact we have seen, on average, one dead person per week in America so far this year from taser torture kind of disproves the notion that the science toy is “10 times more” whatever you want to call it than the taser. Obviously, there is something wrong when police continually botch up their use of the so-called ‘non-lethal’ taser by killing 22 people in the US so far this year. – electronicvillage.blogspot.com/2009/05/taser-related-deaths-in-united-states.html
It is simply my thought that the police in this county detention facility could have used their ‘Use of Force Continuum’ policy to recognize that a taser wasn’t warranted. They already fingerprinted Mr. Madison. Even if he is uncooperative … that is not a reason to be killed (IMHO).
My prayers are with the Madison family and the family of the cop who made the poor decision to pull his taser out instead of using his basic training. That cop is probably having nightmares and regrets tonight as well.
peace, Villager
RichieC… the irony of you mentioning people making “baseless” comments is so ironic it’s not even funny.
Your “base” is an incorrect one, which again, was released to the media on the afternoon that he passed… meanwhile his FAMILY has yet to speak to anyone from there DAYS after the incident. There’s been more said in this report than has been said to ONE member of the family. If you want to use this report as your base, more power to you, but at least TRY to consider that everything being said is not accurate in itself. I would think his family (such as Ms. Madison and myself) would know if he was homeless before whomever gave this report would. So before you start giving your oh-so-clever “translations” and comical anecdotes, maybe you should entertain the idea that there could be some flaws in that story you’re basing your views off of.
DLM…just commenting on whats reported. “The suspicious person was again identified as Dwight Madison who again advised he was homeless and searching for his friend who he only knew by a first name.”…..yet comments abound referring to his neighbors, from his neighbors …whats one to think?
Go Dagger!!
and at “protaser”… no, the “runaround” is not the sheriff giving no comment to the media. We could care less about what the sheriff does with the media. The “runaround” is that after repeated calls, his family can’t get A word from anyone up there. As I said earlier, there’s been more said in this article that we found through Googling than has been told to any of us from them. What’s thorough about that?
By the way, “protaser”, if the taser is so harmless and less powerful than the “thing that makes your hair stand on end” at the Science Center… then why was this harmless, safe device used on someone who allegedly was so out of control, there was no other choice but to use it? I’d think something so “harmless” wouldn’t have much of an effect in a situation like that.
I see everyone is speaking out on taser use. I for one do not agree with the use of them. However In this case as every other one we are being told only what the police want us to hear. There is always two sides to every story. And my heart goes out to the family of Mr Madison. I will keep your family in my prayers and my thoughts. May you find some peace. And that you find the truth in what really happened.
I believe that the police are getting to use to the use of these things called teasers. and if Mr. Madison was that uncorpative didn”t anyone think to call someone in to talk to him. like maybe a doctor. And what happeded to the restrain chair I know for a fact that Harford dentention center has one. Why was that not used. Why didn”t they just put him back into a cell and let him sleep. I read the paper and he asked to go to jail because he had no place to go.
As io said there are two sides to every story and we are only being told one. What the law thinks we need to hear wether it’s the truth or not.
God speed Mr Madison for God is a forgiving God and if You don’t need to be forgiving maybe he will forgive the ones who casused your death
ms madison
could you please post what papers Dwight’s services are going to be listed in. I do not live in the local area and would like to come pay my respects. Thank you for your return comments as well. My prayers are with all parties involved in such a tragic loss of life.
They could have just shot him. Unfortunate end to the situtation but going into a jail is never safe.
First of all I would like to state that I am responding to this situation with the early assumption that the taser was needed and properly used to subdue the man in the detention center. People are tasered by the thousands around the world and sometimes the worst result may occur as in this case. That being said, you have to ask yourself, “what is the alternative”. If not a taser, how about a night stick. This has been the prefered weapon of officers(excluding firearms) for well over a century, but I can guarantee you the deaths associated with this weapon would absolutely dwarf those caused by the taser. Pepper spray although less lethal, does put the officer at a greater risk when combatting violent and drug induced retaliation. This will be debated for years but until a better , (usually) non lethal tool is brought forward, the taser will be the clear choice.
@Jeff – I don’t recall night-stick or pepper spray deaths by USA police officers at the rate of one-per-week … do you? That is what we have going on in 2009 with the taser-related deaths including this one in the Maryland detention center. I think that the police office disregarded the ‘use of force continuum’ and it cost Mr. Madison his life….
We learn today that the taser killing in Utah (Brian Cardall) involved not one, but two taser gun firings. This for an unarmed man who’s wife called 911 for help … not to have her husband and father of their 2-year old child shot like he was a rabid dog in the desert roads of Utah.
Jeff, something is wrong…
peace, Villager
To Villager aka ACLU- You once again miss the point completely. You keep throwing around the use of force continuum like these officers didn’t follow it. Saying they should of followed it. But by your own admission, the taser is at the same level of force as pepper spray. That IS using your training and following guidelines. They DID follow the use of force of continuum!! The people on here saying they should have called in a doctor or used a restraint chair are not seeing the overall picture. Do you think in the middle of being choked the deputy could of asked” Mr. Madison would you like to speak to a doctor about how your feeling?”. What do you think he was qoing to quitely sit down in the restraint chair when asked? ” Please stop choking me Mr. Madison I would like you to sit down quitely in this comfortable restraint chair” You people are so out of touch with reality its not even funny. I will again pray to god you actually research how a taser works and learn a little bit about how electricity affects the human body. A Taser WILL NOT and HAS NOT killed anybody. Its always the surrounding factors such as the fall to the ground, a pre-existing health condition, or other factors like choking to death on evidence like the other detention center death last year.. Do actual research. Don’t quote other blogs filled with biased opinions. Find me a death certificate signed by any states medical examiner that finds the taser use as the CAUSE OF DEATH and I might listen to what your lying about. If the Taser actually killed people than I don’t think police departments and military services would use them on their own people for training purposes. Where are all the deaths due to those exposures? Oh thats right there are none. I know I’ve been shot by one. But yet I am still alive and here to speak out against your boldfaced lies and inaccurate information. Jeff- villager is right. there is something wrong. Something is wrong when people in this country who would never be willing to step up to the plate and perform the job of deputy, police officer, soldier,or corrections officer and try to tell the world they know a better way. Then sit back and judge those who do the job so many are to afraid to do. And to DLM- what answers do you want? The department is not going to compromise the investigation by answering your questions. You deserve a complete and correctly run investigation. If the deputy is found to be in the wrong do you want his possible prosecution thrown out because they did something wrong just to answer your few questions? As far as your other comments on the harmless affects of the taser, your just talking yourself in circles. The taser is harmless to the human body in the long run. It affects the exposed person by a brief amount of extreme pain complaince and muscular disruption. It gives the officers/deputies just enough time to gain control over the suspect. So it makes perfect sense on why it was used in this situation. Mr. Madison’s death was a very tragic accident. End of story. I know people look for answers and always try to place blame in tragic occurrences like this, but don’t jump to hasty decisions and blame those who were tasked with getting Mr. Madison through the prisoner processing protocol. All of the answers will come out in the end maybe in a civil trial , maybe ina criminal trial. But I can guarantee the only thing that would be printed by the media is if the deputies were found to be wrong. If its ruled as an accident and no blame or fault is found you won’t hear anything.
How is and officer to Know. the person under arrest has and existing’ Health condition? it would seem to me. he or she should not have been under these circumstances in the first place. All they had to do was Listen to the orders that were given. simple enough to under stand.
That’s right Vietnam Vet– just do whatever the police tell you to do. Don’t worry about any of your personal and civil rights– the cops are, by definition, always right…because they’re cops! So keep your mouth shut and do what your told. That’s a great mentality. That mentality was popular in Germany in 1935. It’s the law of the boot in the face. Welcome to Amerika.
If multiple police officers in a detention center can’t subdue a homeless man without resorting to the use of a taser, then they don’t deserve to wear the badge on their chest. Pathetic.
Put yourself in the shoes of the policeman…You see a guy walking around going door to door and isn’t from the neighborhood,even though he may be looking for someone and continues walking around , would you not be suspicious and look out for the safety of the neighborhood?? If they did nothing and wouldn’t have gotten him off the streets guess what…. you’d still be complaining!!! So lets give the people out there who are protecting us a little bit of credit!! And as previously stated in comments. Ask yourself this question… What would you have done if you were in the situation that happened while Mr. Madison was being processed??? These officers put themselves in dangerous situations everyday to PROTECT US!! I’m not heartless, and its a shame that Mr. Madison fell and hit his head. But I fully believe it was not intentional for Mr. Madison’s death. Nor do I believe that race has anything to do with it!!
Rolo it would appear that you have very little up bringing. were you taught to respect those who are in Authority ? apparently not.
Since when is it illegal to walk around a neighborhood in America? Unless he was actually committing a crime, I’m fairly certain one is allowed to walk freely in the United States of America.
And yes, Vietnam Vet, I do respect authority. And I expect authority to respect me. And respecting something is not synonymous with blind obedience. Blind obedience to authority ends in the phrase “I was just following orders.”
Rollo I think it’s Apparent you have a different Idealogy’ of those of us who in joy our peace & quite. I’am sure we could find a country that would cater to your way of thinking.
B
Rollo I think it’s Apparent you have a different Idealogy’ of those of us who in joy our peace & quite. I’am sure we could find a country that would cater to your way of thinking.
But relax & injoy your here with us. the land of the FREE.
Gary Owen & Sem -per -Fi
Whatever floats your boat old timer.
Hey…Simp…wake the fuck up…when a cop says stop…I stop…the world is full of picaniinies like you overlooking reality and bullshitting their way through the field of daisies…
the guy, homeless or not…oh, wait a second…he’s homeless so let’s make him a saint…let’s compare ourselves to him…and his ‘martyrdom’…bullshit dude…
he’s banging on my door…what am i going to do…what the hell are you gonna do Simp?…let him in, give him coffee to settle him down…do the Christian thing?
go ahead…McComas’s is full and ready for more like you and him.
If you want examples of unarmed subjects overpowering one or more officers and killing them then I invite you to spend some time on the Officer Down Memorial Page (www.odmp.org.) There are plenty more officers who were overpowered by unarmed subjects and survived who aren’t listed there. That website only tracks officers killed in the line of duty. Some of the people on here have no clue what criminals, mentally/emotionally disturbed, drunk, or doped up subjects are capable of and have no business second guessing what choice an officer had to make in less than a second.
Every officer in Harford County (and virtually every officer anywhere) who carries a taser has been hit with it at least once. It’s part of the requirements to get certified to use it.
Hiram– your writing is articulate and profound. I am totally persuaded by your silky smooth rhetoric and nimble use of logic. And people say the general IQ of Americans has lowered over the years; the so-called “dumbing down of America.” Ha! I give them exhibit A: Hiram Lodgepole… as deft a mind as ever walked upright on two legs. OK so there’s some minor knuckle-dragging… I say pretty good work for a simian! You sir, are a credit to higher primates everywhere!
so what ever happened to the officers taking a person to Harforford Mem. Hospital whom they thought was or needed mental health care. Oh I guess that would be to much to ask. The police stated that the man was lost and didn’t know where he was going. So again just lock them up and taze them. Well maybe more homeless should come and visit Harford county. Maybe you arrogant people would like for Harford county police to fix that problem by killing more of them. Lets just make sure their is something close enough to hit their heads on and say it was a accident.
yo Rollo…rola…rolo…whatever…is the pot calling the kettle black?
Saint Homeless of the Detention Center.
Go Dagger !
Mr Tomasi….
You have a wonderfull way of twisting the facts to your liking.
Go Dagger!
confused,
The police can’t just take someone to the hospital for no reason. I assume what you’re talking about is an emergency petition. Unless someone is exhibiting signs that he’s a threat to himself or others he can’t be taken there with an emergency petition. Unless there is some actual medical emergency EMS units aren’t going to take him to the hospital either.
Mr. Madison was arrested for trespassing which generally is a nuisance crime. He decided to escalate that to an assault on an officer once at the detention center and we know what happened there. I can guarantee that just about every person on here criticizing Mr. Madison being arrested in the first place would be on here bitching and complaining if he had been in your neighborhood knocking on doors and the police just let keep doing it all night.
It’s hard to believe anyone wants to be a cop anymore. They’re damned if they do and damned if they don’t.
Hiram you have to Ignore Rollo it’s apparent he had no family support. or he would have respect for Authority & his elders.
does anyone know when the funeral services for Mr. Madison are going to be. would like to attend but have seen nothing so far in checking the internet? please post if anyone has seen this information in any papers. I figured it would be delayed but would be this week I would think.
who are you to judge any ink ?
your smug disposition to judge others, walking upright, indeed…
I’ll meet you anytime anywhere rolo…
protaser took a good about of time to post one of his well-thought-out, informed responses. it deserves an honest and open-minded read.
it is sad that things happened this way. i know many people at the DC, and i can’t think of one person who would want someones death on their conscience. apparantely, the person who did the tazing is taking this pretty hard…not because they feel guilty, but because their hand was forced and the outcome was the last thing anyone expected or wanted.
no one is saying the deceased was a bad person…but he did make a bad decision.
everyone keeps saying that he has tazed. Okay what happened to the pepper spary first. It seems to me that the police want to use the tazers first and ask questions later. We hear more and more about tazers being used first and than the deaths that results from them. Any one who has a pace maker or suffers from heart problems should steer clear of these officers. And the death of Mr. Madison should fall on some ones head and heart. I hope you have many sleepless nights. The police are taking a lot of lives with tazers and they are not harmfull. I don’t care if they have them used on them in training. I bet you any amount of money not one office with heart trouble has been tazed.
Confused…
Listen to yourself. Everyone is wrong except the guy who was putting himself in the position to be tased. Maybe this denial and deflection of responsibility by your ilk cause this guy to get killed. I think you should look in the mirror if you want to know who killed him. How many other young men and women have been jaded by your mind-set?
Go Dagger !
confused,
I think I posted it earlier, but Tasers do NOT affect pacemakers. In any case the 50k volts is what leaves the taser. It’s something like 1200 volts that actually pass through the body and the amperage is extremely low (like 0.001 amps…much much lower than what you’ll find in a wall outlet.)
As far as pepper spray goes…it’s not all that effective against a determined attacker and frequently ends up affecting the officer who deploys it or other officers already fighting with the guy more than the actual criminal. A lot of the time all it does is piss the guy off which is why a lot of officers don’t even carry it. On most force continuums it’s at the same level as pepper spray and below things like baton strikes or other physical blows.
Anyone who has gone through a police academy has been hit with pepper spray and then had to perform some sort of tasks. If some police recruits not doped up on drugs or mentally/emotionally disturbed can function after being sprayed just imagine what someone falling into those categories can do.
The only person ultimately responsible for Mr. Madison’s death is Mr. Madison. Had he not been trespassing and refused to leave after being told to do he wouldn’t have been arrested in the first place. Had he not attacked 3 people at the detention center (including two officers) while being escorted to the commissioner he wouldn’t have been tased, fallen, hit his head, and died.
@tasers – Is the specific ‘use of force continuum’ used by the Harsford County Sheriff’s office available for public review someplace on the Internet?
I doubt it. I also wasn’t referring specifically to Harford County’s policy, just where tasers generally rank on the continuum. Even if I was privy to the HCSO use of force policy I certainly wouldn’t post it here.
WOW- everyone keeps talking about a force continuum. The fact is that most detention centers and police agencies are moving away from continuum’s because they prove ineffective. the whole if you have a knife then ill use a gun policies are out the window. what kind of sense does it make to first go hands on, then if that doesnt work to use pepper spray, then if that doesnt work use a taser, then if that doesnt work shoot the bad gay. Meanwhile as this process continues the victim or suspect depending on how you look at has succumb to at least 4 uses of force. Now everyone would argue that its brutality and overkill. The use of the taser subdues a subject without having to subject officers to hands on combat. The victim in this case could have just as easily hit his head on the floor being wrestled to the ground by officers. The taser is a pro OFFICER SAFETY device. Maybe the family would prefer that officers beat the subject with their asp batons until he was weak enough to succumb to hadcuffs. At the end of the day its the officers job to go home, whatever the cost is. Its unfortunate what happened here but the taser is not to blame. Read up on use of force policies before you comment. I am for the record not entirely sure what kind of policy the HARFCODC uses but as a police instructor i do know that force continuums are being phased out of agencies.
This is what you do, next time you see a cop tasering someone in an abusive way and you KNOW FOR SURE ITS BEYOND TORTURE, you get a group of people to grab the cop and the taser the living shit out of the cop til he screams for mercy. I know they have an important job to do but some of these cops are totally out of control and you cannot sit back and watch. If the taser is so goddamn safe then the cop will be alright and walk away from it, correct? I mean the taser is totally harmless right?
Nice discussion about this TASER-RELATED death… Here is something that everyone has missed the boat on… Do I have all of your attention????
Everyone seems to forget that these TASER VICTIMS were supposed to be considered “INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY” and given there day in court.
The word “ignorant” has come up several times in this discussion. Here are some facts:
A car battery:
12 Volts
An electric fence for horse pastures (keeping 1200 pound horses:
13 Volts
An electric outlet in your home:
120 Volts
An Old Fashioned Electric Chair used to execute death-row inmates: 20,000 Volts
A “non-lethal” TASER GUN (which have played a part in more than 450 deaths in North America since 2001):
50,000 VOLTS
How could anyone in their right mind say the TASER GUN is a safe non-lethal alternative to the sidearm when TASER GUNS are TWO AND A HALF TIMES MORE VOLTAGE THAN THE ELECTRIC CHAIR????? If you are still pro-taser then you are the only “ignorant” party here!
In closing I will reiterate: These TASER VICTIMS were supposed to be “INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY” and given there day in court.
http://WWW.MYSPACE.COM/STOPTASERGUNS
I do believe it is not the voltage that kills you, but rather the Amps. And there is a huge difference between 12 and 13 volts DC and 120, 20,000 or 50,000 AC.
You are exactly right… there is a huge difference between 12 volts and 50,000 volts!
Thanks for responding.
STOP TASER GUNS
Yea, except the amperage on a Taser is .001 which will not cause permanent damage. That why a Taser won’t kill you while you can be electrocuted and die from a 120 volt outlet in your house.
In any case, the actual voltage that goes into your body is no where near 50k…it’s more like 1200.
Regardless, this guy died because he struck head after being Tased because he attacked two officers at the DC.
DW says:
December 12, 2009 at 9:17 pm
Yea, except the amperage on a Taser is .001 which will not cause permanent damage.
THEN WHY ARE THERE SO MANY DEATHS???
In any case, the actual voltage that goes into your body is no where near 50k…it’s more like 1200.
THAT’S A GOOD ONE… WHERE DID YOU FIND THIS INFO… I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT.
Regardless, this guy died because he struck head after being Tased because he attacked two officers at the DC.
THAT IS LIKE SAYING THAT WHEN YOU WERE HIT BY A DRUNK DRIVER YOU DIED BECAUSE YOUR HEAD HIT THE WINDOW AND NOT THE IMPACT!
Thanks for responding,
STOP TASER GUNS
Find one case where the cause of death was listed as a Taser (contributing factor maybe, but not the actual cause of death.) Most of the cases involve someone hopped up on a variety of illegal drugs who fought with the police prior to being Tased.
For the record, I’m a police officer and go through recertification every year on Taser usage. I’ve also been hit with it so I know exactly what it feels like and what it does your system. I have a feeling I know just a little more about Tasers than you do.
An autopsy report from the Cook County’s Medical Examiner’s Office attributed the death of Ronald Hasse, 54, to electrocution from two Taser jolts delivered by a Chicago police officer.
THIS IS ON THE BOOKS.
For the record, most of the people I have spoken with that are pro-taser guns are in law enforcement so that doesn’t surprise me. As far as your knowledge on the topic vs. mine… you have no idea what I know and I have no idea what you know so you can’t make a claim to know more than I do… that would be arrogant.
Given what you’ve been posting here you clearly have a lack of knowledge on use of force issues.
I googled Ronald Hasse and here’s a snippet from what popped up:
“The local deputy medical examiner (DME) blamed the TASER ECD as the
primary cause of Mr. Hasse’s death in his autopsy report stating that the ECD electrocuted
Hasse. The DME achieved nation-wide publicity for being the first medical
examiner to name a TASER ECD as being the primary cause of a person’s death,
giving many media interviews. From those interviews it appeared that the DME
based his conclusions on unsupported speculation that long ECD applications could
cause a fatal cardiac ventricular fibrillation (VF) and that there was some unspecified
synergy between a methamphetamaine overdose and the ECD application. The DME
further stated that he relied on the opinion of a Mr. James Ruggieri who had briefly
publicized himself as a TASER ECD expert while claiming that the devices had a
50% fatality rate. Mr. Ruggieri is a high school drop out with no engineering degree
who later recanted his erroneous claims.”
Also noted in the case study:
“Material errors in this autopsy include: (1) blaming the ECD when the subject
had normal pulse and respiration after the application as the electrical induction
of VF causes loss of both within seconds, (2) assuming that a last longer ECD application
increased the risk of VF induction, (3) reversing the sequence of the long and
short applications, (4) relying on an unsupported speculation of a dysynergy between
electrical current and methamphetamine, (4) ignoring the 8 minute gap between the
ECD application and the collapse, (5) ignoring the subject’s alertness minutes after
the ECD application, (6) ignoring the failure of defibrillation shocks, (7) ignoring the
subject’s weight which would put his VF induction requirement at 150 times the
TASER X26 output, (8) relying on Ruggieri’s erroneous claims as the basis for his
opinion, and (9) failing to consider excited delirium when the subject had at least
seven signs.
Two weeks later, the DME dropped the Ruggieri discredited theory of direct
induction of VF, and moved to a new speculative theory of respiratory arrest that had
no support at the time and now contradicts published human studies.”
Have any other cases you’d like to cite? It was an excited delirium case which officers are now trained to recognize to help prevent deaths. I don’t believe that was case back in 1996. Hasse was also high on meth. Do you have any other cases you’d like to cite?
STOP TASER GUNS, before you call others ignorant, do your homework. just dropped in is right; listing the voltages is worthless. It’s the amount of amps (current) that’s important. The basic rule is “Volts shock you, amps kill you.” For example, static electricity has extremely high voltage (megavolts), but low current (microamps).
And don’t do anything to make the LEO taser you, bro.
With all do respect, I have done my homework and have read through all the information made public by TASER Internation who make this electrocution device. I am not an electrician but I will read up on amps and volts so I understand them better.
Thank you,
STOP TASER GUNS
Maybe they should have let the dogs loose on him, or just shot him in the kneecap or something. Oh, wait, the same lawyers would be lining up for that too. How about offering him a hotel voucher for the night while he was in the midst of strangling the guard? It would have solved two problems, right? Darn, somebody mentioned that the police should have helped him to find his friend, his friend with no name and no address, yeah, they should have done that, they should have spread out on a special task force to protect and serve by banging on every door in town. Those darned police!
Cool… so his penalty for his crime was DEATH caused by the TASER GUN which cause his muscles to freeze so he would drop to the floor resulting in a closed head injury…
which all could have been avoided if the officers utilized non-lethal crisis intervention tactics to control the suspect.
Thanks,
STOP TASER GUNS
http://WWW.MYSPACE.COM/STOPTASERGUNS
Using Myspace for your cause is probably not going to do much other than get a bunch of 13 year olds all riled up at the thought of dying at the hands of those horrible police men armed with those horrible electrocution devices.
He was not being penalized for his crime, he was choking a law enforcement officer and he needed to be stopped. He did not deserve to die, however, HIS actions caused the chain of events that lead to his death. If you were being choked, would you rather take the choking and possibly not come home to your loved ones, or would you prefer that your assailant be subdued by a means which has an extremely LOW severe injury rate. Where are your statistics that show how many times per year tasers are actually used WITHOUT serious injury? How many police cars are involved in fatal accidents? How many law suits are filed for police brutality when clubs/batons are used? Can you imagine what people would be saying if they straight up beat the shit out of the guy? He was choking somebody, give me a freakin’ break with your Myspace Militia.
STOP TASER GUNS: Your comment makes no sense. Using your logic of “innocent until proven guilty”, we can just all run rampant and break the law and do anything that we want, including attacking correctional officers, because there will be no consequences until we have our day in court. So I guess I’ll go Christmas shopping, or should I say Christmas shoplifting later, because after all, I’ll be innocent until proven guilty.
Hey Blue,
What part of “INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY” (which is the backbone of America’s justice system) do you not understand. This does not give you permission to shoplift… This gives you a presumed innocence until the prosecutor proves (with facts and evidence) in a court of law that you are guilty as charged.
Thanks for responding and I hope you don’t get caught on your shoplifting spree…
STOP TASER GUNS
I hope that you are never put in a position to defend anyone’s life against that of a violent individual. I could see you logging on Myspace to look for statistics as to the absolute least effective way to stop the assault.
I think more people should die by taser. I am glad the little darling is dead.
If Im correct, I dont think taser has had a successful lawsuit against them yet from anyone claiming injury or death. Furthermore taser is not a non-lethal form of defense, it is a “less than lethal” weapon, meaning it is likely to cause death less than a firearm. Hands off approaches like tasers and pepperball guns have a higher success rate for compliance than asps and pepperspray.
I guess you would rather have had the Deputies beat the man?, Maybe throw him to the ground, or hit him with a baton? The suspect/defendant/badguy is the one who determines the use of force, not the officer. Don’t choke police officers/corrections deputies and things like this won’t happen. The ignorance displayed on here is amazing. AND YES J, if you taser a police officer, or anyone for that matter the effects of it are gone seconds after the taser has been used, which generally consists of a 5 second charge. In my department all police officers are required to get tased before we can carry one. Do you really think a Department would accept responsiblity for all of the officers to get tased if there was a chance we would all die? They dont require you to get shot with your pistol before you carry it because it is a LETHAL form of defense, taser is not.
Scott Norberg, died 1996.
“A judge ruled in favor of Manning’s client, Norberg, affirming the man had been killed after jail guards stunned him 13 times with a Taser and kicked him in his larynx.
The man’s family won $8.25 million, Manning said, the highest wrongful-death settlement in Arizona’s history.”
The Cities and States are the ones who will be held liable for using the TASER GUN. Taser International will eventually lose and have to pay settlements like this.
Oh yea, the taser IS listed as “non-lethal” not “less-than-lethal” and is market by Taser International as the “non-lethal” alternative to the officer’s sidearm… IT HAS BECOME NOTHING MORE THAN A COMPLIANCE ENFORCER and it is causing deaths. Like it or not that is a fact.
Thank you,
STOP TASER GUNS
If you read what you just wrote you will see that they stunned him 13 times. The corrections officers did not stun Mr. Madison 13 times I can assure you that. It is unfortunate that he died but as others have said, he shouldn’t have been fighting. If he complied willingly they wouldn’t have had to use the taser. Also, corrections officers are only allowed certain “tools.” I have seen officers fight and they will fight for a while before using anything but they can only take so much. Do you have a better suggestion on what they SHOULD have done??????? If they would have wrestled and beat him up you would complain about that too. Some people cannot be subdued by simply talking and rationalizing with them.
So let me understand this…choke an officer…and thats OK. Last time I looked choking usually led to death. On the other hand…not simply putting a bullet through his brain to stop him from choking…is considered the crime?
BULLOCK!
Go Dagger ! ! !
Mabye they should have called the detention center social worker while the choking was in progress.
GD!
Stunned 13 times AND kicked in the LARYNX. Crushed larynx = death by asphyxiation. The officers were out of control, not the taser(s).
You are right. Usually, the deaths occur from being repeatedly tazed which is outside the rules on how to use this device.
You all have a nice spirited discussion here about tasers.
I suggest you incorporate more of your crisis intervention training and effectively restrain the suspect rather than using an electrocution device that can cause death and has killed 460 “INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY” suspects as of today’s date in North America.
STOP TASER GUNS
Innocent of a crime at that point but guilty of being a moron and fighting and assulting with correctional officers. Sorry no sympathy here. Remember one time recently a correctional gaurd rendered medical assistance not related to a TASER and was shot for his trouble. Sorry that it does not fit your agenda but correctional gaurds get a wide latitude when dealing with scumb like this who wont stop commiting another crime when warned several times.
Sounds like he died of being kicked in larynx. In any case, officers are trained not to tase someone 13 times…it’s clearly not working and you should try something else.
Also, there’s no such thing as “non-lethal” force. Any use of force carries the risk of serious injury and/or death. Pretty much any tool carried by officers is considered “less lethal” other than a firearm. Where on the Taser, Int. website does it call the Taser “non lethal?”
If you want to make an argument that Tasers are overused I’d have to agree with you. There are numerous cases where Tasers have been deployed when lethal force should’ve been used and would’ve been fully justified (including several where the suspect was armed with a gun and was threatening officers and citizens.) Fortunately most of those cases worked out ok and neither the officer nor the suspect were killed or seriously injured. Sounds like the use of the Taser prevented deaths and serious injuries.
SO AGAIN ILL POINT OUT THAT TASER INTERNATIONAL HAS NEVER BEEN HELD LIABLE FOR A DEATH. The state of Arizona may have been in a wrongful death suite but according to your information that was caused by a crushed larynx, not being Tased. Also Taser Internationals website will point out its 100th dismissed lawsuit. Also the Scott Norwood article is crap. The Jail in Arizona seems to have a problem with excessive use of force. And the officers there had HANDHELD STUN DEVICES, not tasers. Two completely different tools. WHAT THE HELL DOES BEING INNOCENT HAVE TO DO WITH BEING TASED? So should I wait until im dead from being choked by some asshole, so he can be arrested, found guilty of murder, then ill come back from the dead and use my Taser? You are ignorant in your writings and your Innocent Until Proven Guilty rant has nothing to do with protecting life or using a taser, or any force for that matter.Im pro taser, pepper spray, firearm,baton and knife,ill do whatever i need to do to go home at night!
I see you are not acting in a rational manner so when you calm down and you can think things out… you know where to find me.
Thank you,
STOP TASER GUNS
:shit:
Go Dagger !
whopps…that was a mistake…sorry
Stop Taser Guns: I think you are the one who is irrational. You clearly have a closed mind on this issue and you refuse to listen to other opinions. BPB said it all–he/she wants to go home to the family at night and I must say the police officers who use their tasers show great restraint, as I think most people who aren’t professionally trained would be pulling out the gun first instead of the taser. God bless those who serve and protect and do whatever you have to do to control those who choose to commit the crimes.
LESS COPS ARE GETTING INJURED
LESS PEOPLE ARE BEING SHOT
SOME PEOPLE SHOULD BE SCARED OF TASER
IF YOU PUSH THE COPS TO USE A TASER YOU SHOULD EXPECT TO BE TASERED
COPS ARE GREAT AND SO ARE TASER GUNS
After reading through all of your comments and giving much thought to each and every one of them, with the exception of Chris’s Comment #69, I have realized that I need to learn more about how the TASER GUN really works. i.e. volts vs. amps etc. I also would like to know more about the protocol on when you should use it verses other means of force. I really need to know if these deaths are a taser issue or a bad cop tasering the suspect 15 or 20 times in a row. I have spoken to a Manufacturer Rep for Taser International who will try to give me some info from the training manual. If any of you have any info that you could send my way I would be grateful.
To clear the air, I don’t think the police are bad people, but I think some of them are bad. So is it possible then that when the taser gun is deployed properly as per the protocol would death not be the result? Or if an overzealous officer tased a suspect repeatedly, which is outside the protocol, and death does occur… should that officer be held liable for the wrongful death? and for that matter, If tased repeatedly and death did not occur… Should the officer be reprimanded?
I am trying to see your point of view here and I know that for the number of times tasers have been deployed there are relatively low fatalities. I don’t like the term “collateral damage” so if we can still use the taser and eliminate the fatalities then cool.
Thank you all who responded and thanks in advance for anyone who can help me laern more about this device and other uses of force.
Sincerely,
STOP TASER GUNS
Hello… is anybody there???
Amazing that you will shoot down every fact that I gave you but when I sincerely ask you for more info so that I will be able to see your side… You disappear! And you call me closed-minded?
I really like the response from BPB {WHAT THE HELL DOES BEING INNOCENT HAVE TO DO WITH BEING TASED?} You all are supposed to be upholding the law and give us our right to a fair trial. If the suspect dies during the arrest or while being held in detention center then they never saw their day in court.
If someone is hit by a drunk driver and died the cause of death never says “drunk driver” so the fact that TASER hasn’t been named the main cause of death when the coroners are speaking their lingo doesn’t surprise me. Like when you all say it’s not the TASER but the fall and his head hitting the ground that killed him. How ludicrous is that. In a drunk driving accident you prosecute the drunk driver, the bar owner and the server also can get fined in some cases. But it was the injuries from the impact that killed the victim. Wake up Officers and realize that you are electrocuting humans which is wrong and barbaric and as a result of your actions, people are dying!
In the training videos I have seen where officers are being tased there are mats on the floor and other officers to catch you. NOBODY WAS THERE TO CATCH DWIGHT MADISON!
I don’t require a response to this blog… you words mean nothing to me now!
Think about this next time you chose electricity as your form of force!
STOP TASER GUNS
The fair trial is a right but when you fail to comply with a lawful order and must be supdued. Your resistance causes the need for a taser in this case. The suspect had every avenue out and failed to behave. His being tazed was a direct results of his actions. Him falling the way he did was not forceable and was secondary to preventing the death of the corrections officer he was assulting!
No one was there to catch Dwight Madison because he was trying to kill the person who should have been there.
IF the suspect dies during an arrest then it is the suspects fault, aside from a police officer intending to commit murder. THE SUSPECT DECIDES THE USE OF FORCE USED. Its not the police officers fault if you dont see your day in court. I cant risk being beaten to death, shot or stabbed, just to insure you get your day in court. My job is to arrest you. You comply with my directions and there IS NO FORCE. U want to hurt me, or my friends or family, or INNOCENT PEOPLE, then I have no choice, which is why they give us weapons to defend ourselves. If you have a warrant for your arrest, and you are truly innocent but you fight me doing my job then I will have to use force against you. Afterwards you may go to court and be found not guilty of the original offense, that has nothing to do with me arresting you and you fighting that authority. Come quietly and listen to the officers directions and no force will be used against you. If you are innocent thats great, but its not my job to convict the bad guys, thats what lawyers do. Dwight Maddison didnt get his day in court because he tried to kill an officer. There is no reason to choke someone other than to kill them. If Dwight Maddison were choking a police officer out on the street its quite possible he would have been shot with a GUN, not a taser. In any matter, you use these weapons with the intent to stop the suspects actions, not to kill them, but sometimes it happens, welcome to earth, where shit goes wrong sometimes. If you were getting choked to death would you like me to politely ask the person choking you to please stop or to take every action necessary to get them off of you so you can continue living?
BPB:Very well said. It’s as simple, as do as your told. some just can’t seem to under stand that.
Hey Spaz, Are automobiles charged with manslaughter in fatal DUI crashes? Is the car’s fault, or the drunk behind the wheel?
This post is exactly why I didn’t bother responding to your other post asking for information so you can “see my side.” It looked like you were fishing for information to use and twist at a later date and your response supports my belief that that was all you were doing.
In any case, I think BPB covered it just fine in his post and there’s no need for me to repeat any of it.
As I said earlier, you don’t have any understanding of use of force issues and it’s much more complicated than just a simple “If the suspect does this than the officer can do this.” Use of force situations are very volatile, dangerous, and constantly change. What may be appropriate in one situation may not be in another situation that seems very similar to some with no experience in the field and can easily go from simple verbal commands to a gun fight in less than a second.
Can anyone point me to (a) copy of the autopsy report or a (b) photo of Dwight Madison?
peace, Villager
Why does noone want to talk about the police being the authority. When you are arrested or being arrested you do what they tell you do it is simple as that! If Mr. Madison had not put up a struggle and been on his own agenda he would be alive today.
This thread is was long past, but there was a comment challenging others to show ONE taser induced death. Would the cardiac arrest (I believe that might qualify) of one Angela Jones of Los Angeles be a valid example? The entire situation was recorded by the police cruiser camera and is available at the huffington post website.. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/21/angela-jones-los-angeles-woman-cardiac-arrest-taser-police-video_n_2171123.html
They had to administer CPR to revive her, and yes, that too is shown on the cruiser video…. but maybe she just died of fright? The taser could not cause it according to all the experts. And please note, blood tests showed her to have no evidence of alcohol or drugs in her system. I also have validated links to the death of Inman Morales falling 10 feet to his death after being tased. He obviously was dangerous being naked and brandishing a weapon (a light bulb) The taser didn’t kill him, I will give you that. Unfortunately he fell on his head causing death.
“When they Tasered him, he froze and pitched forward. He fell on his head,” said witness Ernestine Croom, 40. “They didn’t put out a mattress or a net or anything.”
Yup, they serve and “Protect”